Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

FlubberJones

faceman wrote: »

Regardless of your view on MHQ, this is hilarious

https://www.newstalk.com/news/mandatory-quarantine-issue-not-capacity-but-lack-of-enforcement-by-airlines-donnelly-1179922

Blame is the airlines... what a joke. Europe must be pissing themselves looking at this

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

The US are not planning to use them. There is still very much a sense of a temporary measure about these anyway. It's really to try to get this summer up and running in the EU.

US vaccine certs (paper based I think in the most part) are being accepted in some EU countries already (Croatia, Greece, Poland (for polish citizens), Iceland (not EU I know). It’ll be on a bilateral basis, like the EU statement said yesterday. I am sure that by september we will have some kind of bilateral arrangement for US citizens to travel here. Hope that’s the case, so that family can visit

Dr. Em

FlubberJones wrote: »

Blame is the airlines... what a joke. Europe must be pissing themselves looking at this

Europe? Some countries in Europe are probably scratching their heads right now wondering why airlines aren't at all afraid of the Irish government. Germany and the Netherlands have already required airlines to check for negative tests prior to boarding. Lufthansa/Euro Wings is planning to set up their own package testing deal.
Ensuring that no one is allowed to fly without a negative test is the first step to getting rid of mandatory hotel quarantine. The next step would be mandatory testing on arrival at the airport (preferably free), and an enforceable requirement to present for testing at a later date. Instead, the government has bypassed all intermediate steps.
If you are against MHQ, it only makes sense to ensure that the airlines require negative test results prior to flying, if they are not already doing so. Even saying that those who arrive without a PCR test will be tested and quarantined, rather than refused boarding, perpetuates MHQ

monkeybutter

Dr. Em wrote: »

Europe? Some countries in Europe are probably scratching their heads right now wondering why airlines aren't at all afraid of the Irish government. Germany and the Netherlands have already required airlines to check for negative tests prior to boarding. Lufthansa/Euro Wings is planning to set up their own package testing deal.
Ensuring that no one is allowed to fly without a negative test is the first step to getting rid of mandatory hotel quarantine. The next step would be mandatory testing on arrival at the airport (preferably free), and an enforceable requirement to present for testing at a later date. Instead, the government has bypassed all intermediate steps.
If you are against MHQ, it only makes sense to ensure that the airlines require negative test results prior to flying, if they are not already doing so. Even saying that those who arrive without a PCR test will be tested and quarantined, rather than refused boarding, perpetuates MHQ

is that not the case already? everyone i know who flew in the last say 10 months, so mid summer on had to have a negative test both ways

FileNotFound

I would think that a review of MHQ would be a basic next step.

Some additional rules, say you are vaccinated, had a negative test pre leaving and then you get a negative test post arrival (would mean 1 night quarantine max?)

Then for non vacc a longer stint. 1 test pre and 2 post arrival 5 days apart.

We missed the boat on the zero risk policy so its really just risk reduction now surely.

muddypuppy

Dr. Em wrote: »

Europe? Some countries in Europe are probably scratching their heads right now wondering why airlines aren't at all afraid of the Irish government. Germany and the Netherlands have already required airlines to check for negative tests prior to boarding. Lufthansa/Euro Wings is planning to set up their own package testing deal.
Ensuring that no one is allowed to fly without a negative test is the first step to getting rid of mandatory hotel quarantine. The next step would be mandatory testing on arrival at the airport (preferably free), and an enforceable requirement to present for testing at a later date. Instead, the government has bypassed all intermediate steps.
If you are against MHQ, it only makes sense to ensure that the airlines require negative test results prior to flying, if they are not already doing so. Even saying that those who arrive without a PCR test will be tested and quarantined, rather than refused boarding, perpetuates MHQ

Airlines have a legal obligation to check for a PCR test, while they're being asked by Donnelly to be nice and please check for a MHQ booking (which is funny, given that the mean reason for delaying the introduction of MHQ was that they took time to write the legislation for it...).
As far as I know, both Ryanair and Aerlingus ask you for a test before boarding. If they're not, the government should challenge them in court.
Also, there is a big fine, possible jail time (and now MHQ) if you flight into Ireland without a PCR test. If this is not being enforced at the airport then it's the government to blame.

I do agree that there could be a lot more testing. We could require antigen testing done a few hours before the flight in addition to the PCR one, like the Netherlands does, but Ireland (NHPET to be honest) doesn't believe in them. Even without forcing people, it would be nice to at least offer a free test when you land and a free test after 5/10 days (right now you have to pay for it, so I doubt many people are doing it).

Klonker

First off just to lay out that I'm totally against MHQ and I think a negative PCR should be enough to enter the country. I don't think there should be any home quarentine either. When in the country everyone should have the same rules e.g. stay on County, no indoor household mixing etc. The person here who tests positive can roam around while someone with the negative PCR and vaccinated is locked in a hotel room!

From the mumblings from government it sounds like vaccinated people are going to be exempt from MHQ in the near future. Was the whole point of MHQ not to stop variants coming in that may evade the vaccines? By excluding vaccinated people are we saying we are no longer fearful the variants will escape the vaccines? If so then why do we have MHQ? If we are still worried about variants escaping the vaccines then it makes no sense to exclude vaccinated people.

The whole MHQ just keeps getting worse and worse, it's an absolute joke. Some of the politicians shouting loudest for MHQ like Roisin Shorthall is now saying there should be exemptions on humanitarian grounds. Either you're worried about the variants or you're not. You can't pick and choose who to quarentine.

M_Murphy57

faceman wrote: »

Regardless of your view on MHQ, this is hilarious

https://www.newstalk.com/news/mandatory-quarantine-issue-not-capacity-but-lack-of-enforcement-by-airlines-donnelly-1179922

The problem is they have "So many walk ins"? .... so people who managed to travel here with no MHQ booking are voluntarily turning themselves in at a prison they have to pay 2k to enter?!

Pull the other one Donnelly, what a national embarrassment and absolute spoofer he is!

is_that_so

Govt looking at issue of fully vaccinated and MHQ.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0415/1209980-covid-19-quarantine/

josip

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

The problem is they have "So many walk ins"? .... so people who managed to travel here with no MHQ booking are voluntarily turning themselves in at a prison they have to pay 2k to enter?!

Pull the other one Donnelly, what a national embarrassment and absolute spoofer he is!

From what I hear, most of the 'walk ins' are not from red list countries, but people from other countries who somehow made it here without a valid PCR test.

IQO

is_that_so wrote: »

Govt looking at issue of fully vaccinated and MHQ.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0415/1209980-covid-19-quarantine/

It is understood that of the five flights arriving into Dublin from the US between 5am and 9am this morning, around 12 people are entering the country, with an even smaller number transiting to other countries.


One flight had no passengers on board.

Unsustainable.

Soon there will be no flights/passengers left to quarantine.

Are the airlines contractually obliged to provide freight services to someone in the Belly. If so then it will continue until those contracts reach their end dates. An LCC would have just cancelled those flights.

munchkin_utd

IQO wrote: »

Unsustainable.

Soon there will be no flights/passengers left to quarantine.

sure isnt that the point !!
Essentially put up such a high barrier to entry that nobody in their right mind would do it except in an emergency and even then maybe not bother

NSAman

faceman wrote: »

Regardless of your view on MHQ, this is hilarious

https://www.newstalk.com/news/mandatory-quarantine-issue-not-capacity-but-lack-of-enforcement-by-airlines-donnelly-1179922

IQO wrote: »

Unsustainable.

Soon there will be no flights/passengers left to quarantine.

Deleted User wrote: »

Are the airlines contractually obliged to provide freight services to someone in the Belly. If so then it will continue until those contracts reach their end dates. An LCC would have just cancelled those flights.

Basically, what I see happening here is the government forcing through legislation which will make the airlines do the border controls for the government, while at the same time forcing them into a situation that is economically unviable.

This, of course, will lead to a bail out offer which will be forced on the tax payer.

Some strong words from the Italian ambassador to Ireland this afternoon.

"Dear friends of the Italian community in Ireland, approximately a year ago, I addressed to you a video message to check with you and to remind you, at the start of the pandemic, how important it was to keep firm on an important aspect of our lives: lucidity. Today, I must remind you of the same concepts. As you know, from today, Italy will be subject to this new mandatory hotel quarantine measure. It is a measure that hits us. Us and another four EU countries, France, Belgium, Austria and Luxembourg. Together with these countries we have made a serious and decisive step, at the highest level, at the Department for Foreign Affairs, because we believe that these measures are excessive and are causing serious damage to our citizens and to our communities here in Ireland. We cannot accept this. I also wrote a letter to Minister Donnelly asking to clarify these measures that are somewhat discriminatory towards our community and towards the communities of the other four countries involved. We know that the EU must ensure and maintain the free circulation of people, goods and capital, and the free circulation of people is sacred. When you close the borders and you impose limits, there must be serious reasons to do so. I mentioned our national focal points to Minister Donnelly, to clarify in the best manner and as fast as possible, that our expectations are for these measures to be revoked. I also reminded him that Italy is carrying out a serious vaccination campaign and that, in Italy, at this very moment, there is no virus variant that is not already present in Ireland. So we need to be careful when imposing discriminatory and selective measures towards Italian and other EU citizens. We must work together. We must, as soon as possible, abolish these measures that hit our community and other EU communities here. We must maintain a good connection between our countries because each one of us has a responsibility in this situation. I attached to my letter to Minister Donnelly, a letter from an Italian researcher at Trinity College to give him an overall view of the expectations that our community has and to ask him that our community is not damaged without a just and evident reason. We are working on this and I want to assure you that, within our framework, we are doing everything possible to overcome this serious problem and to make sure that Ireland is and remains a winning choice. Thank you"

mmclo

IQO wrote: »

Unsustainable.

Soon there will be no flights/passengers left to quarantine.

There are less and less flights every day

saabsaab

Edz87 wrote: »

Some strong words from the Italian ambassador to Ireland this afternoon.

Their record hasn't been great.

MOH

monkeybutter wrote: »

is that not the case already? everyone i know who flew in the last say 10 months, so mid summer on had to have a negative test both ways

Huh? There was no restriction of any kind coming into Ireland until the PCR test requirement was brought in mid-January

saabsaab

saabsaab wrote: »

Their record hasn't been great.

In what regard?

saabsaab

Edz87 wrote: »

In what regard?

In allowing the spread of Covid.

saabsaab

saabsaab wrote: »

In allowing the spread of Covid.

In what way?

saabsaab

Edz87 wrote: »

In what way?

See attached. Lessons not learnt by Italy.


https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4279

hotmail.com

De Valera would be proud of internment system.

saabsaab

saabsaab wrote: »

See attached. Lessons not learnt by Italy.


https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4279

Yeah, replace Italy with Ireland, UK, France, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, USA....

Sono Topolino

The European Commission is examining our mandatory hotel quarantine regulations with a view to initiating infringement procedings if they aren't amended to make them more transparent and less arbitrary. In addition, the Commission has requested the Government outline other policy avenues it examined which do not breach the fundamental freedoms of EU citizens, and explain why they were rejected.

Austria, Belgium, France, Luxembourg and Italy have lodged complaints regarding the mistreatment of their nationals and will raise it jointly at EU Council level.

is_that_so

Another challenge to MHQ requirement, this one is completely understandable.

An Irish couple who travelled to Ukraine for the birth of their boy through surrogacy have been given permission to take a legal challenge to the requirement to pre-book a room in hotel quarantine before they can fly home.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0415/1210115-quarantine-courts/

normanoffside

is_that_so wrote: »

Another challenge to MHQ requirement, this one is completely understandable.



https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0415/1210115-quarantine-courts/

If anything can be learned from this it's that the Airport watchers must understand that most travel is essential these days. It's mostly not people flying back from holidays in red list countries.

josip

is_that_so wrote: »

Another challenge to MHQ requirement, this one is completely understandable.
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0415/1210115-quarantine-courts/

Why are these people being forced to bring all the cases to the High Court?
Isn't there supposed to be an appeals process?

is_that_so

josip wrote: »

Why are these people being forced to bring all the cases to the High Court?
Isn't there supposed to be an appeals process?

Someone in the DoH, a "case officer" but they seem to reject all appeals out of hand so they end up in the HC.

josip

is_that_so wrote: »

Someone in the DoH, a "case officer" but they seem to reject all appeals out of hand so they end up in the HC.

Is this due to the old mentality of can't be reprimanded if they apply the rules but if they were to actually evaluate a specific case on its merits, then they run the risk of a mark on their record ?