What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

brickster69 · 11-04-2021 09:27AM

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

If Uk had same death rate as Ireland at least 70,000 of 130,000 be alive today

UK is 2.5 times larger in area than Ireland.UK has 170 towns with over 100k population and one of those is larger than the whole population of Ireland. Ireland has 6 towns over 50K

Do you really think if you crammed 30 million extra people into Ireland they would still have the same death and cases rates?

And regarding cases is it not obvious if you carry out twice as many tests as anyone in Europe, apart from Russia ( 130 million ) you are going to find a lot more positive cases ?

stephenjmcd · 11-04-2021 09:30AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/health/gps-advised-not-to-administer-astrazeneca-jab-until-committee-reports-back-1.4534281%3fmode=amp

Hopefully we will know by tomorrow.

Pretty sure GPs hadn't been using it in practise up to now anyway

11-04-2021 09:31AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Pretty sure GPs hadn't been using it in practise up to now anyway

But many in Cohort 4 were sent to MVCs the past few days.

stephenjmcd · 11-04-2021 09:39AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But many in Cohort 4 were sent to MVCs the past few days.

It just says GPs have been told to wait to organise clinics. GPs hadn't been holding clinics anyway as they were only doing the over 70.

That all relates to in practise & not MVC where the GP isn't involved at this point.

GPs are to be involved in cohort 4 along with those are high risk ages 18-69 after they finish the over 70s, for some GPs that could be quite soon hence being told just to hold off a few days. I know my own GP is finished dose 1 for over 70 so she would be due to vaccinate a small number in group 4 shortly, she'll have to wait to schedule this now.

Those high risk aged 18-69 (group 7)could get AZ as it stands and are due to start shortly with GP in practise involvement as they'll be finishing the over 70s. The article relates to that also, GPs are just being told not to organise the appointments yet in the event that NIAC advise changes

In that case for example if the cut off is 30 you could have from group 7 someone under 30 going to their GP to get Pfizer or Moderna and someone over going to MVC. A small bit of logicitistics involved in that change so for the GP it's better to wait until NIAC advise and then schedule, no point in scheduling then having to cancel appointments, it just gets messy

mick087 · 11-04-2021 01:34PM

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Want to now compare against Germany who you claimed are in the infectious continent or some nonsense like that

What’s that silence? Once again the Tories are responsible for at least 70,000 needless deaths

You really need to stop comparing deaths like a football league.
Europe's death rates are shocking something like 14 of the top 15 are all IN Europe.

Europe needs to look at itself and see what went wrong and i include the UK in this.

Professor Moriarty · 11-04-2021 01:34PM

brickster69 wrote: »

UK is 2.5 times larger in area than Ireland.UK has 170 towns with over 100k population and one of those is larger than the whole population of Ireland. Ireland has 6 towns over 50K

Do you really think if you crammed 30 million extra people into Ireland they would still have the same death and cases rates?

And regarding cases is it not obvious if you carry out twice as many tests as anyone in Europe, apart from Russia ( 130 million ) you are going to find a lot more positive cases ?

The UK made a mess of their lockdown responses. That's the main reason why their mortality rate is so high.

mick087 · 11-04-2021 01:35PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

The UK made a mess of their lockdown responses. That's the main reason why their mortality rate is so high.

Most of Europe has made a mess.
Dont let elected European governments point fingers at other countries to divert from there own country.

fin12 · 11-04-2021 02:05PM

Update: sorry for my over reactions on this thread.

I got checked out and all is fine, I’m not developing any serious side effect. I don’t feel worried anymore about the vaccine,

My side effects were headaches, stiff neck and swollen lymph node. If anyone is concerned just go get checked out and it will put ur mind at ease.

Miike · 11-04-2021 02:11PM

fin12 wrote: »

Update: sorry for my over reactions on this thread.

I got checked out and all is fine, I’m not developing any serious side effect. I don’t feel worried anymore about the vaccine,

My side effects were headaches, stiff neck and swollen lymph node. If anyone is concerned just go get checked out and it will put ur mind at ease.

I'm delighted to hear your mind is at ease now, I really mean that.

Strazdas · 11-04-2021 02:16PM

fin12 wrote: »

Update: sorry for my over reactions on this thread.

I got checked out and all is fine, I’m not developing any serious side effect. I don’t feel worried anymore about the vaccine,

My side effects were headaches, stiff neck and swollen lymph node. If anyone is concerned just go get checked out and it will put ur mind at ease.

Glad to hear you're on the mend, Fin. Seems people are developing some minor side effects for a day or two with AZ but nothing too drastic.

deeperlearning · 11-04-2021 05:55PM

mick087 wrote: »

Most of Europe has made a mess.
Dont let elected European governments point fingers at other countries to divert from there own country.

Ah, indeed. Only the British are allowed to point fingers!

mick087 · 11-04-2021 09:01PM

deeperlearning wrote: »

Ah, indeed. Only the British are allowed to point fingers!

And when they do they look as stupid as some of the posters on this thread.

12-04-2021 12:00PM

patnor1011 wrote: »

This is probably more for the vaccine thread but well only positive news are allowed there so...
Vaccine fails to curb Covid for 246 people in U.S. midwest state.
https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/268604147/vaccine-fails-to-curb-covid-for-246-people-in-us-midwest-state

Reading comprehension skills are very poor in Ireland it appears..

However, officials noted that of the 246 people, some had contracted the coronavirus before being vaccinated and continued to test positive two weeks after being inoculated.

Of 117 people of the vaccinated people who contracted the Covid virus, 11 required hospitalization.

Officials added that of the three fully vaccinated people who died, they were 65 years or older and were within three weeks of having been fully vaccinated.

"While the majority of the population develops full immunity within 14 days of completion of their vaccine series, a small proportion appear to take longer to mount a full antibody response," Sutfin said. "CDC is actively working to better understand the risk characteristics of this group.

12-04-2021 12:20PM

https://twitter.com/RTENewsAtOne/status/1381582132498272259?s=19

NIAC meeting still ongoing.

Turtwig · 12-04-2021 12:32PM

I would be very surprised if they issued an age restriction. The risk benefits for our current cohorts are massively in favour of the vaccine.
Allow everyone in these cohorts the option of AZ through informed consent.

The EMA requested studies should have results in about two months. Those will help better stratify the risk. Then we could consider how we're going to use AZ and possibly J & J for the lower risks groups where the risk benefit may not be as favourable.

JP100 · 12-04-2021 12:47PM

An age restriction has to be forthcoming. To do anything otherwise would be utterly negligent.

SusanC10 · 12-04-2021 12:54PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RTENewsAtOne/status/1381582132498272259?s=19

NIAC meeting still ongoing.

Any idea which age with be the cut off ?
50 ? 40 ?

Strazdas · 12-04-2021 12:56PM

SusanC10 wrote: »

Any idea which age with be the cut off ?
50 ? 40 ?

We simply don't know and we haven't seen any speculation yet.

AlekSmart · 12-04-2021 01:09PM

Turtwig wrote: »

I would be very surprised if they issued an age restriction. The risk benefits for our current cohorts are massively in favour of the vaccine.

Allow everyone in these cohorts the option of AZ through informed consent.

The EMA requested studies should have results in about two months. Those will help better stratify the risk. Then we could consider how we're going to use AZ and possibly J & J for the lower risks groups where the risk benefit may not be as favourable.

AFAIAA,the current HSE practice is NOT to make recipients aware of the actual Vaccine they are recieving.

I do value having some form of say in whatever types of medications are being administered to me,however I equally agree that many people could not care less,as long as it cures the ailment or allows them renewed access to normality (of a sort yet to be decided ?)

So yes ,this principle of "Informed Consent",without fear of imposed repercussions should be fully practiced.

ddarcy · 12-04-2021 01:16PM

SusanC10 wrote: »

Any idea which age with be the cut off ?
50 ? 40 ?

I agree that since the UK, Germany , Greece. France etc have put in an age limit they will have no choice but to.

Given the issues have been seen in under 40s id say right now it may be under 45s or under 50s to give a bit of breathing space. It shouldn’t massively impact the rollout as the 65+ Group is going to start next week/ week after that. That will take time to get through, so we’d be in June and potentially know more information by then.

The issues will be healthcare workers , vulnerable that were forced to get it and will more need a different booster. Do you start completely over and give 2 Pfizer/Moderna? What time spacing would be needed To start this? Will you have to wait the 12 weeks and then start over and not be considered vaccinated until after 18 weeks etc?

There are clinical trials ongoing right now testing AZ with a booster of another type. So if that’s approved by the EMA it could make this easier to handle.

Turtwig · 12-04-2021 01:26PM

The UK age limit is for the low risk cohort only. For higher risks groups under 30 they're still operating off the mantra of the quickest vaccine is the best. They also had many of their vulnerable cohorts given the first dose before they introduced the age restriction. Our vaccination profile is markedly different.

12-04-2021 01:29PM

JP100 wrote: »

An age restriction has to be forthcoming. To do anything otherwise would be utterly negligent.

Why? A younger person with a pre existing condition would be far better off with any vaccine.

The rates of issues are tiny. For the moment only older people or those with pre-existing conditions will be getting it anyway. In two or three weeks time, when they actually need to make a decision, there will be much more data to allow the at risk groups to be accurately identified. It could yet be revealed that is is only an easily identifiable subset that is at increased risk from the AZ vaccine. By restricting to over 50's now, when under 50's without pre existing conditions are not yet being vaccinated to any great level (HCW already nearly complete), it would subsequently be extremely difficult to reverse course and say "actually it is only this extremely limited subset of the under 50's who are at an increased risk."

By some of the commentary you would think there was a widescale public health crisis with clots after the vaccine

timetogo1 · 12-04-2021 01:31PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

AFAIAA,the current HSE practice is NOT to make recipients aware of the actual Vaccine they are recieving.

I do value having some form of say in whatever types of medications are being administered to me,however I equally agree that many people could not care less,as long as it cures the ailment or allows them renewed access to normality (of a sort yet to be decided ?)

So yes ,this principle of "Informed Consent",without fear of imposed repercussions should be fully practiced.

Anybody I know who got the vaccine so far knows what they got. No idea if the information was offered or if the recipients asked for it.

Signore Fancy Pants · 12-04-2021 01:31PM

According to RTE.

NIAC recommend AZ only for pers aged 60+.

Strazdas · 12-04-2021 01:34PM

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

According to RTE.

NIAC recommend AZ only for pers aged 60+.

Yes, just announced. It will probably mean some disruption this week but it shouldn't take too long to get vaccinations on track.

I assume this means the under 60s will receive only Pfizer, Moderna or J & J.

Kivaro · 12-04-2021 01:35PM

From RTE:
"A recommendation that the AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine be restricted for use for people over 60 years of age is expected today from the National Immunisation Advisory Committee, RTÉ News has learned."

Well, that's going to throw a spanner in the works. What about the tens of thousands who already received the 1st dose of Astrazeneca and are under the age of 60? Will they get another vaccine for the second dose?
Interesting times ahead.

Timfy · 12-04-2021 01:40PM

Mmmm... I wonder where that leaves myself and people in a similar situation.

I'm 54 yrs old and received my first AZ jab two weeks ago (I have a fairly severe auto immune disorder)

Will we still be called for the second dose or will we be put back on the list to await another option?

12-04-2021 01:40PM

Common sense decision and it's in line with most of our peers. I'm a bit surprised they've gone as high as 60 but clearly they feel it's warranted.

brickster69 · 12-04-2021 01:41PM

Novovax started producing round the clock last month and that should be on stream soon.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/production-novavax-vaccine-gets-under-20237098

12-04-2021 01:42PM

I feel relieved that I refused it now, I know I will still be at the back of the queue but I know this decision would have made me very anxious had I taken it.

Hopefully they are quick to clarify what happens for those under 60 with one dose taken.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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