Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

IQO · 08-04-2021 11:19AM

faceman wrote: »

If there’s no transparency and clear criteria on how countries get on the list, there’s no credibility. Also this is ****.

https://jrnl.ie/5402575

Now his name is out he won't get away with this anymore, but there are major flaws with MHQ making it easy to circumvent the hotel quarantine. There are no direct flights from Puerto Rico to Ireland, so it's likely he would have to fly back through the US. Given there is no MHQ for visitors from the US, and no exit-stamp when leaving Puerto Rico with a US passport - he would just be able to enter Ireland as long as he doesn't declare where he started the journey.

goingnowhere · 08-04-2021 11:45AM

Its time we changed the tune and banned every country by default

Revoke all visa free and visa travel. If you need to travel from outside the EEA/UK, you apply online ESTA style

Then have a clear protocol based on
0. Complete ban for high risk locations, e.g. Brazil, you ain't getting in no discussion, but if resident in Ireland -> Hotel (cannot refuse at border)
1. If there is any question as to the quailty of data about a country -> Hotel (Tanzania for example)
2. If more than X cases/000 or X% positivity -> Hotel
3. Then apply the traffic lights, requiring a test prior entry + 5 days for all non green countries

Chase the science and data not arbitrary assumptions. If anyone complains the process is public and based on evidence.

Thankfully Brazil does exit stamp...

Red Silurian · 08-04-2021 11:49AM

normanoffside wrote: »

Every case in the world is then travel related.

Finally you see the point

08-04-2021 11:57AM

faceman wrote: »

Speeding isn’t a criminal offence

Actually, it is in common law legal systems. We only have two, criminal and civil. Spain operates a third level in-between. That's why a vetting form will almost always specifically exclude traffic offences.

faceman wrote: »

Ignorance of the law is separate to absolute liability, which as I mentioned, is unconstitutional is certain circumstances

They are related. They already tried ignorance as an excuse and mammy still is in the papers.

Absolute liability refers to, in part, the lack of mens rea aka criminal intent and the inability to stop an act aka act of god. Sadly for these two, as their court case will show, they had that intent as they made the conscious decision to travel against guidelines, after the quarantine was announced and after the Gardai spent nearly 2 hours explaining it too them.

It's a hail mary be the defence and why not, they get paid and their names in the papers. Wrong defendants for it though.

normanoffside · 08-04-2021 12:01PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

Finally you see the point

I think you are missing the point.

It's impossible to ban all travel, the world would collapse, billions would die due to starvation and other treatable causes.

josip · 08-04-2021 12:22PM

goingnowhere wrote: »

Its time we changed the tune and banned every country by default

Revoke all visa free and visa travel. If you need to travel from outside the EEA/UK, you apply online ESTA style

Then have a clear protocol based on
0. Complete ban for high risk locations, e.g. Brazil, you ain't getting in no discussion, but if resident in Ireland -> Hotel (cannot refuse at border)
1. If there is any question as to the quailty of data about a country -> Hotel (Tanzania for example)
2. If more than X cases/000 or X% positivity -> Hotel
3. Then apply the traffic lights, requiring a test prior entry + 5 days for all non green countries

Chase the science and data not arbitrary assumptions. If anyone complains the process is public and based on evidence.

Thankfully Brazil does exit stamp...

What an apt username

And you could see this coming down the tracks 15 years ago.

normanoffside · 08-04-2021 01:57PM

Not listening to Joe but this is the kind of nonsense this MHQ is bringing

https://twitter.com/rteliveline/status/1380141064552595457

JDD · 08-04-2021 02:29PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Not listening to Joe but this is the kind of nonsense this MHQ is bringing

https://twitter.com/rteliveline/status/1380141064552595457

This was exactly my point last night. Israel should not be on the MHQ list, it makes a nonsense of the whole list.

Red Silurian · 08-04-2021 04:35PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Not listening to Joe but this is the kind of nonsense this MHQ is bringing

https://twitter.com/rteliveline/status/1380141064552595457

It's stories like this that makes me think the govt haven't thought through the MHQ system... Or as leaky Leo would put it, we tried it and it didn't work, so now we are stopping it

Red Silurian · 08-04-2021 04:49PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Even ignoring the fact Israel shouldn't be on the list (which I completely agree with you on), the fact she has to quarantine is utter nonsense. Vaccinated AND has a negative test. What does forcing someone in that position into quarantine achieve?

Definitely as long as the vaccine is EU approved there is no reason to have MHQ! Is there a need for a negative test if vaccinated? I would argue there is not

saabsaab · 08-04-2021 05:28PM

ninebeanrows wrote: »

There will always be variants of COVID, the world isn't eradicating this disease.

Should we close up shop for how long? months, years, 1, 2, 3?

There is no evidence the current vaccines do not work against any of the known variants. They will be tweaked to higher their cover against known ones for the next boosters we will likely get in 2022

If you decide to pick at will countries with so called variants then they could be on the list for years.

For example, why is Germany being added? What crazy ass variants do they have that is likely to arrive here through PCR negative pax?

No different chance to any other nation and it is minimal.

We have to accept some risk otherwise we shut ourselves off for long term, the advice from NEPHET has always been extremely cautious and severe.

The MHQ was set up for big outbreaks centres such as Brazil not for marginal cases like Germany etc, these should be on an amber list, not a red list.

I feel it is being abused by some zero covid people within public health

You should listen to the Kingston Mills interview. Unless of course you have made up you mind.

bodhrandude · 08-04-2021 05:49PM

saabsaab wrote: »

You should listen to the Kingston Mills interview. Unless of course you have made up you mind.

Kingston Mills, any relation to the Irish rock group Columbia Mills?

ninebeanrows · 08-04-2021 07:13PM

Reposted due to link error

If you believe Ireland is breaching EU law and treaties as i do with Mandatory Hotel Quarantine of EU citizens with negative COVID PCR tests then please please take 5 minutes to lodge a complaint to the commission

To lodge a complain about Ireland to the commission
The link again for anyone seeking to lodge a complaint: https://ec.europa.eu/assets/sg/report-a-breach/complaints_en/

It is very straight forward

08-04-2021 07:16PM

ninebeanrows wrote: »

If you believe Ireland is breaching EU law and treaties as i do with MHQ please please take 5 minutes to lodge a complaint to the commission

The link again for anyone seeking to lodge a complaint: https://ec.europa.eu/assets/sg/repor...complaints_en/

It is very straight forward.

and still a waste of your 5 minutes

ninebeanrows · 08-04-2021 07:31PM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

and still a waste of your 5 minutes

Reposted due to link error

If you believe Ireland is breaching EU law and treaties as i do with Mandatory Hotel Quarantine of EU citizens with negative COVID PCR tests then please please take 5 minutes to lodge a complaint to the commission

To lodge a complain about Ireland to the commission
The link again for anyone seeking to lodge a complaint: https://ec.europa.eu/assets/sg/report-a-breach/complaints_en/

It is very straight forward

Happydays2020 · 08-04-2021 10:29PM

ninebeanrows wrote: »

Reposted due to link error

If you believe Ireland is breaching EU law and treaties as i do with Mandatory Hotel Quarantine of EU citizens with negative COVID PCR tests then please please take 5 minutes to lodge a complaint to the commission

To lodge a complain about Ireland to the commission
The link again for anyone seeking to lodge a complaint: https://ec.europa.eu/assets/sg/report-a-breach/complaints_en/

It is very straight forward

What about the 2k fine for travelling out of the country to another EU country?

saabsaab · 08-04-2021 10:31PM

10 of those who passed through screening and now in quarantine have now tested positive for covid! Pity this wasn't in a year ago.

normanoffside · 08-04-2021 10:42PM

saabsaab wrote: »

10 of those who passed through screening and now in quarantine have now tested positive for covid! Pity this wasn't in a year ago.

10? Wow.
Over 600 who walked into pop up test centres over the last week with absolutely no symptoms tested positive, we only have these centres in a few places.

People flying into MHQ are actually testing positive at a lower level (2.3%) than random members of the resident Irish public with no symptoms(2.7%)

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/retail-cultural-sites-reopening-possible-from-may-4th-if-we-hold-firm-1.4531000

Kaisr Sose · 08-04-2021 10:46PM

faceman wrote: »

It’s not comparable with an assault case. There is no injured party here

My original post wasn’t my opinion. I was relaying what a barrister told me

There is an injured party, the duboobi two. Injury does not have to be physical, it can be as simple as being prejudiced or discriminated against. The latter would seem to be close to what these would claim. Quarantine does not suit them

Some barrister will go to court and argue a perfect or near perfect case which they will have many hours to prepare. Ultimately, public health officials and those legislating in support of public health measures don't have such luxuries. They have to make decisions in real time. A country may not be red listed on one day but added the next. A person arriving on the second day cannot claim discrimination etc. Its a dynamic situation. Decisions are taken on the move.

I believe Austria is on the list because it has or had high numbers of the SA variant. UAE, I am not sure, but it was well publicised that they were on an international red list way before Ireland introduced its mandatory quarantine.

The dubooby duo had no urgent need to travel there, but chose to do so, contrary to public health and essential travel advice. The fact they had Covid tests while over there is a strong indication that they knew about the risk of contracting covid, yet still travelled.

It's total rubbish that they wish to blame the State for the situation they are in. For once in their lives they should accept they made a poor decision to travel, and an even poorer one to refuse to enter mandatory hotel quarantine. I doubt they will, simply because in their world, there is no personal accountability, it will always be someone else's fault things did not work out as they wanted it to.

Simon Harris put it quite well when he used the term 'Cop on'. That's what they these two need to do. Taking a constitutional challenge is merely to avoid them getting a criminal conviction. That potential outcome would have been avoided if they went to hotel quarantine.

saabsaab · 08-04-2021 10:50PM

normanoffside wrote: »

10? Wow.
Over 600 who walked into pop up test centres over the last week with absolutely no symptoms tested positive, we only have these centres in a few places.

People flying into MHQ are actually testing positive at a lower level (2.3%) than random members of the resident Irish public with no symptoms(2.7%)

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/retail-cultural-sites-reopening-possible-from-may-4th-if-we-hold-firm-1.4531000

You miss the point. 10 out of those already screened ! Not to mention the new variants from abroad.

normanoffside · 08-04-2021 10:54PM

saabsaab wrote: »

You miss the point. 10 out of those already screened ! Not to mention the new variants from abroad.

You miss the point!

Random symptomless members of the public are more likely to test positive for Covid than people flying into the country that have already been pre-screened.

a_squirrelman · 08-04-2021 10:58PM

saabsaab wrote: »

You miss the point. 10 out of those already screened ! Not to mention the new variants from abroad.

Unknown variants. Possible future variants. Variants under the bed.

normanoffside · 08-04-2021 11:15PM

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Unknown variants. Possible future variants. Variants under the bed.

People just believe everything they hear on the telly.

saabsaab · 08-04-2021 11:18PM

normanoffside wrote: »

People just believe everything they hear on the telly.

Look up Professor Kingston Mills. These were already screened, just think about it, that makes it far worse!

BobbyBolivia · 08-04-2021 11:20PM

saabsaab wrote: »

You miss the point. 10 out of those already screened ! Not to mention the new variants from abroad.

Which new variants are those?

saabsaab · 08-04-2021 11:40PM

BobbyBolivia wrote: »

Which new variants are those?

What ones are you looking for Brazilian, Breton, South African?

BobbyBolivia · 08-04-2021 11:49PM

saabsaab wrote: »

What ones are you looking for Brazilian, Breton, South African?

So all variants which our vaccines work against?

Bit strange too that we would try to keep out the B.1.1.7 which is the dominant variant anyway here now isn't it?

Any other new variants? I presumed there were new ones you were referring to that the vaccines don't work against - hence the need for mandatory quarantine to keep them out.

The way you and the likes of Micheal Martin were talking, you would swear there were tons of deadly vaccine evading variants wandering around France, Isreal and USA. I hadn't heard though, maybe I missed something?

saabsaab · 08-04-2021 11:52PM

BobbyBolivia wrote: »

So all variants which our vaccines work against?

Bit strange too that we would try to keep out the B.1.1.7 which is the dominant variant anyway here now isn't it?

Any other new variants? I presumed there were new ones you were referring to that the vaccines don't work against - hence the need for mandatory quarantine to keep them out.

The way you and the likes of Micheal Martin were talking, you would swear there were tons of deadly vaccine evading variants wandering around France, Isreal and USA. I hadn't heard though, maybe I missed something?

Why wait for one that the vaccines don't work on? The SA variant doesn't respond as well to the vaccine as it is.

BobbyBolivia · 08-04-2021 11:59PM

saabsaab wrote: »

Why wait for one that the vaccines don't work on? The SA variant doesn't respond as well to the vaccine as it is.

Pfizer vaccine works perfectly well on the South African variant. Moderna works fine aswell, there are more than enough neutralising antibodies produced by the vaccine to protect against the South African variant.

But you quite beautifully get to my next point and outline the insanity around the mob screaming for MHQ.

By your logic there can be no end to Mandatory Hotel Quarantine. Covid-19 will become endemic, so there will always be a risk of an unknown variant coming along. When does MHQ end if there is always a potential variant lurking around the corner? 5 years, 10 years?

Do you think it is rational to kill entire sectors of our economy for something which doesn't even exist yet, permanently?

Golfman64 · 09-04-2021 12:01AM

saabsaab wrote: »

10 of those who passed through screening and now in quarantine have now tested positive for covid! Pity this wasn't in a year ago.

These are the results of testing all who are involved with MHQ - travellers and staff. This could literally be staff members working at the MHQ facilities who contracted Covid in the community and are now infecting travellers who arrived with a negative PCR....;)

Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

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