What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

appledrop · 07-04-2021 08:07PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thats not what the government said.

Age is biggest risk factor of dying of covid.

Why would you vaccinate a "young teacher in class of 25" before a factory worker of 55.

Young teacher mortality risk might be 1 in 5000

55 year old factory worker 1 in 500

Vaccinate the people who are most likely to get sick and die of covid first, especially when supply is limited.

Thats the logic and i agree. Sure the 55 year old teacher will probably now be vaccinated earlier than previously.

Yes but a 55 year old working from home should not be priotised over a 30 year old teacher in classroom of 25 students who are wearing no masks. That's just madness.

Lazy Bhoy · 07-04-2021 08:12PM

I will be refusing to take that AstraZeneca vaccine if it is the only one that is offered to me.

So somebody else can take mine if they like.

It is disgraceful that the government will not take Russia up on their offer to supply the Sputnik vaccine. The EMA are deliberately stalling its approval for political reasons despite it been approved in plenty of other countries without any issues.

They are putting anti-russia politics ahead of peoples health and the reopening of the country just to look like the best boy in the class. I can't believe that they would still rather roll out that inferior quality and clearly dodgy AstraZeneca jab instead.

Other European countries have already accepted Sputnik instead of waiting for the EMA to stop playing games and approve it and so should we.

At the very least, Sputnik would give us another option and help with the supply issues. Then at least people could have the choice of whether or not they wanted to take it.

Lazy Bhoy · 07-04-2021 08:17PM

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Did you get a personal tour from Putin of the billion dozes a month plant of their free vaccine?

What do you think?

astrofool · 07-04-2021 08:17PM

appledrop wrote: »

Yes but a 55 year old working from home should not be priotised over a 30 year old teacher in classroom of 25 students who are wearing no masks. That's just madness.

Sure, send out a memo for vaccines to over 55's who aren't working from home and see how well you get on.

The logistics of that is impossible.

There is also multiple other groups in more crowded environments than teachers.

What is driving this is that many many 25 year old's would need to catch the disease for the same odds of having a severe reaction as one 55 year old.

Lazy Bhoy · 07-04-2021 08:18PM

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Did you get a personal tour from Putin of the billion dozes a month plant of their free vaccine?

And what is a doze??

Pete_Cavan · 07-04-2021 08:19PM

Refusing to take the AstraZeneca vaccine but lovin Sputnik, I think he found a side of the what vaccine do you want fence which absolutely nobody else is sitting on!

07-04-2021 08:19PM

I have made my decision not to take the astrazeneca on Friday morning, ( unconfirmed) reports of Spain and Italy also banning it for under 60's.

The deaths have risin in the UK. Lack of any clarity/ reassurance from our own government.

I will phone HSE live in the morning and hopefully someone else can take it if they want it. I will take my chances being at the back of the queue.

appledrop · 07-04-2021 08:20PM

I'm down the list now anyway and actually think by that stage much better chance of getting Pfizer.

We actually get more Pfizer than anything else but at moment given to our elderly thanfulky as definitely the most effective vaccine but by time I get it they will be all done so better chance of Pfizer.

Lazy Bhoy · 07-04-2021 08:24PM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Refusing to take the AstraZeneca vaccine but lovin Sputnik, I think he found a side of the what vaccine do you want fence which absolutely nobody else is sitting on!

Nobody else is sitting on??

Plenty of other countries are already using it with no issues reported.

They also seem to be able to meet the amounts that they are contracted to supply to these countries without any issues reported either.

Where as AstraZeneca have both supply issues and quality issues.

It is no about loving Sputnik or anything of the sort. It is about bringing another viable solution to the table at a time when we really need it. Just like the AstraZeneca vaccine, if people do not wish to take it for whatever reason then they don't have to.

I would prefer to have the choice.

hmmm · 07-04-2021 08:24PM

Lazy Bhoy wrote: »

It is disgraceful that the government will not take Russia up on their offer to supply the Sputnik vaccine. The EMA are deliberately stalling its approval for political reasons despite it been approved in plenty of other countries without any issues.

The Slovakians bought Sputnik and aren't deploying it, because the regulator is not happy with the data they received with it. Along with worrying news reports about "inconsistencies in dosages". I'll pass thanks.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/04/07/slovakian-drug-institute-unable-to-evaluate-sputnik-v-due-to-lack-of-data-a73511

If we don't want to give AZ to under 30s fair enough, let's keep the system moving and give it to other groups. If someone is high-risk and turns down a vaccine (and isn't under 30 or whatever the cutoff point is) then they'll have to join the back of queue as we're not in a situation where we can facilitate picking and choosing vaccines. Hopefully however they'll change their minds as no-one wants people to get seriously ill from Covid.

Strazdas · 07-04-2021 08:25PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I have made my decision not to take the astrazeneca on Friday morning, ( unconfirmed) reports of Spain and Italy also banning it for under 60's.

The deaths have risin in the UK. Lack of any clarity/ reassurance from our own government.

I will phone HSE live in the morning and hopefully someone else can take it if they want it. I will take my chances being at the back of the queue.

You're well within the rights, but you're also doing the right thing by informing them in advance of your reasons for not taking it and freeing up a vaccine dose for someone else.

Make sure to tell them you are willing to take another vaccine as soon as one becomes available.

Speedline · 07-04-2021 08:25PM

appledrop wrote: »

Yes but a 55 year old working from home should not be priotised over a 30 year old teacher in classroom of 25 students who are wearing no masks. That's just madness.

The teachers just want their vaccine in time for the summer holidays. If they were concerned about their students, they would be campaigning to have the students vaccinated first.

josip · 07-04-2021 08:27PM

Lazy Bhoy wrote: »

I will be refusing to take that AstraZeneca vaccine if it is the only one that is offered to me.

So somebody else can take mine if they like.

It is disgraceful that the government will not take Russia up on their offer to supply the Sputnik vaccine. The EMA are deliberately stalling its approval for political reasons despite it been approved in plenty of other countries without any issues.

They are putting anti-russia politics ahead of peoples health and the reopening of the country just to look like the best boy in the class. I can't believe that they would still rather roll out that inferior quality and clearly dodgy AstraZeneca jab instead.

Other European countries have already accepted Sputnik instead of waiting for the EMA to stop playing games and approve it and so should we.

At the very least, Sputnik would give us another option and help with the supply issues. Then at least people could have the choice of whether or not they wanted to take it.

And how do you know that Sputnik doesn't have the same blood clots issue as AZ?
It's also an Adenovirus-based vaccine.

Jim2007 · 07-04-2021 08:30PM

hmmm wrote: »

If we don't want to give AZ to under 30s fair enough, let's keep the system moving and give it to other groups. If someone is high-risk and turns down a vaccine (and isn't under 30 or whatever the cutoff point is) then they'll have to join the back of queue as we're not in a situation where we can facilitate picking and choosing vaccines. Hopefully however they'll change their minds as no-one wants people to get seriously ill from Covid.

With everyday that goes by we discover a new issue with AZ, at best at this stage it should only be optional.

Goldengirl · 07-04-2021 08:30PM

josip wrote: »

And how do you know that Sputnik doesn't have the same blood clots issue as AZ?
It's also an Adenovirus-based vaccine.

Not to mention its trials on military and state employees which doesn't in that state lend itself to open reporting of side effects ...

Hurrache · 07-04-2021 08:31PM

Lazy Bhoy wrote: »

It is disgraceful that the government will not take Russia up on their offer to supply the Sputnik vaccine. The EMA are deliberately stalling its approval for political reasons despite it been approved in plenty of other countries without any issues.

The Russians have been supplying plenty of their own dodgy data when it comes to Sputnik. You hardly think that the offer was genuine either and not a PR stunt?

07-04-2021 08:32PM

appledrop wrote: »

Yes but a 55 year old working from home should not be priotised over a 30 year old teacher in classroom of 25 students who are wearing no masks. That's just madness.

Why?

No person has zero contact and if they do how tough is that.

The 55 year old could have four teenage children living with him.

Should he move up the list because of that.

Theres too many arbitrary variables for your scenario.

This is the fairest and easiest to implement.

Many people think they are the most important.

Little disagreement in UKs rollout and we have now moved alot closer to theirs.

appledrop · 07-04-2021 08:32PM

If it was just the blood clotting issue than AZ might have a chance but its already the far inferior vaccine.

Your done and dusted with 2 jabs of Pfizer/Modena in a month.

Meanwhile it will take 3mths to get your 2 jabs with AZ.

J&J not as effective but at least only 1 jab.

AZ is only 10% effective against SA variant, that's a joke and that's one variant who knows how useless it is against all the other variants that will come out.

Meanwhile because of different type of vaccine that Pfizer and Modena are them seem to have no problem adapting to all the different variants.

AZ will soon be vaccine no one wants.

NeuralNetwork · 07-04-2021 08:33PM

Lazy Bhoy wrote: »

I will be refusing to take that AstraZeneca vaccine if it is the only one that is offered to me.

So somebody else can take mine if they like.

It is disgraceful that the government will not take Russia up on their offer to supply the Sputnik vaccine. The EMA are deliberately stalling its approval for political reasons despite it been approved in plenty of other countries without any issues.

They are putting anti-russia politics ahead of peoples health and the reopening of the country just to look like the best boy in the class. I can't believe that they would still rather roll out that inferior quality and clearly dodgy AstraZeneca jab instead.

Other European countries have already accepted Sputnik instead of waiting for the EMA to stop playing games and approve it and so should we.

At the very least, Sputnik would give us another option and help with the supply issues. Then at least people could have the choice of whether or not they wanted to take it.

That makes ABSOLUTELY no sense. I'm really getting a bit baffled by this vaccine nationalism coming in around Sputnik V and also AstraZeneca nationalism coming in due to certain commentators and UK media thinking the world revolves around Brexit politics.

Let me get this right: Basically, you're saying that you'd refuse the vaccine that has been put through extremely high level of scrutiny by the the EMA and various other regulators, detecting a problem and yet you would be highly enthusiastic about one that has not been put through such rigorous testing yet?

The risks around AstraZeneca are very low and are subject to intense scrutiny by regulatory agencies and the vaccine has been through all of the approvals processes in Europe and elsewhere.

Sputnik V has not been yet. They're absolutely more than welcome to apply and that has been stated over and over. It's just a matter of meeting the same standards as anyone else. The process is not political and is completely open to any company who wants to apply.

The EMA quite literally is our regulatory agency. The EU isn't some entity that's nothing to do with us. It's the system were are core member of, contribute to and the EMA's executive director is even from Ireland. They're not some imposed 3rd party. They're doing a job of regulating, testing, analysing and approving medicines on our behalf all the time. They're a world leading regulatory agency and it's very much part of our system as much as the FDA is doing a job on behalf of the people off Massachusetts.

It's like people just seem to keep buying this "booo! Brussels bureaucrats" line from UK media.

hmmm · 07-04-2021 08:35PM

Jim2007 wrote: »

With everyday that goes by we discover a new issue with AZ, at best at this stage it should only be optional.

The issues are extremely rare, and they appear to affect only one group of people. The other issues with AZ have been with manufacturing and supply.

We don't have the luxury of letting people pick and choose vaccines at the moment - in the future we will. Only a few months ago we had people (here and elsewhere) saying they weren't going to take the new mRNA vaccines and were going to take the "more traditional ones", now it's all reversed.

It shows that the safety system is working.

Lazy Bhoy · 07-04-2021 08:35PM

hmmm wrote: »

The Slovakians bought Sputnik and aren't deploying it, because the regulator is not happy with the data they received with it. Along with worrying news reports about "inconsistencies in dosages". I'll pass thanks.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/04/07/slovakian-drug-institute-unable-to-evaluate-sputnik-v-due-to-lack-of-data-a73511

If we don't want to give AZ to under 30s fair enough, let's keep the system moving and give it to other groups. If someone is high-risk and turns down a vaccine (and isn't under 30 or whatever the cutoff point is) then they'll have to join the back of queue as we're not in a situation where we can facilitate picking and choosing vaccines. Hopefully however they'll change their minds as no-one wants people to get seriously ill from Covid.

They haven't had any issues with the vaccine itself. They have not started using it because they themselves are not happy with the data. But plenty of other countries have approved it and are not reporting any serious issues. The same can definitly NOT be said about AZ.

Like I have said previously. I would not choose to take the AZ jab, but that is my choice.

Goldengirl · 07-04-2021 08:36PM

appledrop wrote: »

Yes but a 55 year old working from home should not be priotised over a 30 year old teacher in classroom of 25 students who are wearing no masks. That's just madness.

How can you say that ?
The 55year old may be wfh but have family who are not and as a result are as much at risk of catching Covid and more likely to suffer severe illness than the 30year old teacher .

hmmm · 07-04-2021 08:37PM

Lazy Bhoy wrote: »

They haven't had any issues with the vaccine itself. They have not started using it because they themselves are not happy with the data. But plenty of other countries have approved it and are not reporting any serious issues. The same can definitly NOT be said about AZ.

As was pointed out above, Sputnik is using similar technology - wouldn't be at all surprised to see similar issues. Once the Russians have managed to manufacture enough and provide reliable data of course.

Lazy Bhoy · 07-04-2021 08:42PM

hmmm wrote: »

As was pointed out above, Sputnik is using similar technology - wouldn't be at all surprised to see similar issues. Once the Russians have managed to manufacture enough and provide reliable data of course.

Of course.

I dont believe in vaccine nationalism. I am Irish. I have no connection to Russia or any other country.

I did not mention anything about refusing a vaccine based on what country that it came from. The issues that I pointed out with AZ were its supply and quality.

If the Sputnik vaccine (or any other) is shown to have similar problems. I would take the exact same view of them. But right now that doesn't seem to be the case.

07-04-2021 08:43PM

appledrop wrote: »

If it was just the blood clotting issue than AZ might have a chance but its already the far inferior vaccine.

Your done and dusted with 2 jabs of Pfizer/Modena in a month.

Meanwhile it will take 3mths to get your 2 jabs with AZ.

J&J not as effective but at least only 1 jab.

AZ is only 10% effective against SA variant, that's a joke and that's one variant who knows how useless it is against all the other variants that will come out.

Meanwhile because of different type of vaccine that Pfizer and Modena are them seem to have no problem adapting to all the different variants.

AZ will soon be vaccine no one wants.

All these vaccines currently could be redundant in a few years.

They are first generation covid vaccines.

If AZ was only vaccine in town for forseeable future would people be as choosy?

It is like the government are offering everyone a free car

There is a bmw, an audi and a fiat panda.

Everyone wants the bmw or the audi, but the fiat panda not much bragging rights there. They all get you a to b.

I feel a little, some people want the bmw now and thats it.

In time i'm sure someone can graduate from a fiat panda to a bmw.

I'd rather have a fiat panda than having to thumb a lift.

We should all be a little more grateful we have all good vaccines that work.

Did'nt have that luxury 100 years ago in 1918.

hmmm · 07-04-2021 08:46PM

Lazy Bhoy wrote: »

If the Sputnik vaccine (or any other) is shown to have similar problems. I would take the exact same view of them. But right now that doesn't seem to be the case.

I find your willingness to support a vaccine for which we have very little data, and dismissal of a vaccine which is being very closely scrutinised odd.

Would I take 'AN Other Russian' vaccine with very little safety scrutiny over Astra Zeneca which is being scrutinised in detail by multiple independent regulators? No of course not, why would anyone do that?

Would I take AZ if I was not in a vulnerable category and female under 30? I'd have to think about that, and I'd give it a few weeks to see whether we get more data on how often this side effect occurs. It could be something as simple as a rare conflict with some other drug those people affected were taking.

LLMMLL · 07-04-2021 08:54PM

Anyone ever taken aspirin? Scary stuff.

07-04-2021 08:54PM

Deleted User wrote: »

All these vaccines currently could be redundant in a few years.

They are first generation covid vaccines.

If AZ was only vaccine in town for forseeable future would people be as choosy?

It is like the government are offering everyone a free car

There is a bmw, an audi and a fiat panda.

Everyone wants the bmw or the audi, but the fiat panda not much bragging rights there. They all get you a to b.

I feel a little, some people want the bmw now and thats it.

In time i'm sure someone can graduate from a fiat panda to a bmw.

I'd rather have a fiat panda than having to thumb a lift.

We should all be a little more grateful we have all good vaccines that work.

Did'nt have that luxury 100 years ago in 1918.

What a ridiculous comparison. Bragging rights??

It's quite clearly a safety issue.

07-04-2021 08:54PM

Jim2007 wrote: »

With everyday that goes by we discover a new issue with AZ, at best at this stage it should only be optional.

What have we heard everyday about AZ?

Bloodclots has been one thing.

Thats been talked about for about a month on more most days.

Its talked about most days as its such an important vaccine at present.

Efficacy is less of a thing.

All of the vaccines have less efficacy with these new variants.

Its just degrees.

AZ is in the ballpark efficacy of all others.

Some studies showed 90%, others 76% and 62%.

Still good numbers and for average Joe and Mary under 70
its probably the difference between getting sick and not getting sick.

appledrop · 07-04-2021 08:56PM

SA are not giving out AZ because basicially its useless for them.

10% is not an effective vaccine.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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