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Covid 19 Part XXXIV-249,437 ROI(4,906 deaths) 120,195 NI (2,145 deaths)(01/05)Read OP

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Comments

  • #3902
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    thebiglad wrote: »
    They are available here https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/covid19-daily-operations-update-2000-05-april-2021.pdf

    263 in hospital, 55 of which in ICU.

    That is last night’s. Given long weekend, perhaps more discharges this morning?


  • #3903
    Rosita
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭Rosita


    Sammy2012 wrote: »

    I'm a teacher and would not vote to be prioritised ahead of my parents.

    False specious dichotomy in all fairness. You won't be asked to vote between teachers and your parents. By the time they get teachers vaccinated (if they did decide to do so), at current pace, unless your parents are under 40 any conflict probably won't arise.

    There are two simple points: 1) if schools really are essential then teachers are essential workers (and education is deemed an essential service on gov.ie, and 2) don't say you're going to do it (vaccinate groups of workers) if you're not going to do so.


  • #3904
    celt262
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,776 ✭✭✭celt262


    Rosita wrote: »
    False specious dichotomy in all fairness. You won't be asked to vote between teachers and your parents. By the time they get teachers vaccinated (if they did decide to do so), at current pace, unless your parents are under 40 any conflict probably won't arise.

    There are two simple points: 1) if schools really are essential then teachers are essential workers (and education is deemed an essential service on gov.ie, and 2) don't say you're going to do it (vaccinate groups of workers) if you're not going to do so.

    The only real issue here is that non-vaccination of teachers will likely mean any prospect of teachers and students going back in September to an unmasked non-social distancing environment is gone. For all concerned that would be a pity and a chance missed.

    Well if students are not jabbed there will be masks.

    Teachers will have all got vaccine by September.


  • #3905
    JDD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭JDD


    Rosita wrote: »
    False specious dichotomy in all fairness. You won't be asked to vote between teachers and your parents. By the time they get teachers vaccinated (if they did decide to do so), at current pace, unless your parents are under 40 any conflict probably won't arise.

    There are two simple points: 1) if schools really are essential then teachers are essential workers (and education is deemed an essential service on gov.ie, and 2) don't say you're going to do it (vaccinate groups of workers) if you're not going to do so.

    The only real issue here is that non-vaccination of teachers will likely mean any prospect of teachers and students going back in September to an unmasked non-social distancing environment is gone. For all concerned that would be a pity and a chance missed.

    You really think teachers won't have had their first dose of AZ by September? And by that I mean along with everyone else in the 18-55 cohort?


  • #3906
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    That is last night’s. Given long weekend, perhaps more discharges this morning?
    Look out for Fergal Bowers or Paul Reid on Twitter. Reid tends to give regular updates.


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  • #3907
    Rosita
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭Rosita


    JDD wrote: »
    You really think teachers won't have had their first dose of AZ by September? And by that I mean along with everyone else in the 18-55 cohort?

    I never said that. Never made any prediction. I just speculated on the possible situation if teachers weren't vaccinated. Based on what has transpired up to now I avoid all predictions about vaccinations.


  • #3908
    celt262
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,776 ✭✭✭celt262


    Rosita wrote: »
    I never said that. Never made any prediction. I just speculated on the possible situation if teachers weren't vaccinated. Based on what has transpired up to now I avoid all predictions about vaccinations.

    You seem to be predicting that they wont be vaccinated.


  • #3909
    covidrelease
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 229 ✭✭covidrelease


    Rosita wrote: »
    I never said that. Never made any prediction. I just speculated on the possible situation if teachers weren't vaccinated. Based on what has transpired up to now I avoid all predictions about vaccinations.

    No point in speculating about September then. Its way too far away to be concerned about.

    No reason why vaccines won't be freely available, we will do close to 1m vaccinations this month and more suppliers coming on stream, you are speculating about what might happen in a highly improbable scenario.


  • #3910
    ZX7R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,393 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    is_that_so wrote: »
    The circumstances they find themselves in maybe, the utter vilification of them not so much. The former is of their making but the latter very badly reflects on those that do so. It does bring some very needed attention to the mandatory plan, especially when Donnelly and the DoH want to add half the world to it!

    Exactly this, if found to have been some sort of criminal intent for the reason of ther trip so be it criminal proceedings will come in time.
    My interest in the case is solely in relation to mhq, rushed laws are just as much a danger to all even if they don't realise it.


  • #3911
    Rosita
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭Rosita


    covidrelease wrote: »
    No point in speculating about September then. Its way too far away to be concerned about.

    Good point. I have edited my original post accordingly.


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  • #3912
    Rosita
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭Rosita


    celt262 wrote: »
    You seem to be predicting that they wont be vaccinated.

    I have withdrawn the offending material so we can move on.


  • #3913
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Although those 1 million doses should almost all have been first doses.

    This early second-dose strategy is an error in my view.

    Better to have 1 million people with 80+% protection, than the system they've opted for with the second doses adding a marginal booster effect.

    Then, we'd be at 20% of the population vaccinated and pretty much over the top of the hill.

    To what end? Fly in the face of all the trials and manufacturer guidelines. Why stop there, we could have had 2 million dosed with a half dose. Any protection is better than none!


  • #3914
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    To what end? Fly in the face of all the trials and manufacturer guidelines. Why stop there, we could have had 2 million dosed with a half dose. Any protection is better than none!

    Don't be facetious.

    The one dose format has been practiced in the UK and Israel to a larger extent to Ireland.

    If it's good enough for the UK and Israel, who appear to be doing quite well I've noticed, then it's good enough for Ireland.

    Logic dictates that spreading out a highly efficacious first dose is better than administering a second dose too early. You vaccinate a greater number of the most vulnerable, faster.


  • #3915
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    As more vaccines come on-stream, what would the likely approach be with the likes of Astrazeneca with a potential link to side effects? Could we reach a situation where vaccine availability allowed us to move away completely from reliance on Astra (if still not proved to be a cause of the clot issues, but potentially being)?


  • #3916
    JDD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭JDD


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Don't be facetious.

    The one dose format has been practiced in the UK and Israel to a larger extent to Ireland.

    If it's good enough for the UK and Israel, who appear to be doing quite well I've noticed, then it's good enough for Ireland.

    Logic dictates that spreading out a highly efficacious first dose is better than administering a second dose too early. You vaccinate a greater number of the most vulnerable, faster.

    The UK hasn't really been tested yet though.

    There's no issue with spreading the doses out with the AZ vaccine. In fact, they're trials showed that efficacy might actually be increased if you stretch out the time between doses to 12 weeks. The vast majority of the UK's vaccines have been AZ. Ireland is going to follow this process, and also wait 12 weeks to give the second dose.

    The issue comes with Pfizer. Pfizer themselves have said that while a good level of efficacy can been achieved with one dose, they believe that efficacy decreases in the 65-85 age group if longer than three weeks is left between doses.

    If this is true, some of those 65-85 year olds in the UK who have had only one Pfizer dose - say over a month ago - will catch covid once the UK opens up on 12 April. What impact this will have on numbers remains to be seen. AFAIK, most over 65s in the UK have had the AZ vaccine. So in fact any effect might be negligible for them, but would have a huge impact on us because ALL of our over 65s have got the Pfizer vaccine.

    Ultimately the reason why the UK are doing so well is the availability and supply of the AZ vaccine, and not the decision to move out the second Pfizer dose to 12 weeks.


  • #3917
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Don't be facetious.

    The one dose format has been practiced in the UK and Israel to a larger extent to Ireland.

    If it's good enough for the UK and Israel, who appear to be doing quite well I've noticed, then it's good enough for Ireland.

    Logic dictates that spreading out a highly efficacious first dose is better than administering a second dose too early. You vaccinate a greater number of the most vulnerable, faster.

    I'm pretty sure Israel stuck to the recommended dosing procedure like ourselves.


  • #3918
    muddypuppy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 322 ✭✭muddypuppy


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    As more vaccines come on-stream, what would the likely approach be with the likes of Astrazeneca with a potential link to side effects? Could we reach a situation where vaccine availability allowed us to move away completely from reliance on Astra (if still not proved to be a cause of the clot issues, but potentially being)?

    Unless it get blocked I don't think it's likely. From here to June AZ is supposed to be ~1/4 of the vaccines we are going to get (https://i.redd.it/10z7x6xbhmp61.png) so not using it would set us back by 1-2 months.


  • #3919
    Derek Zoolander
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Derek Zoolander


    muddypuppy wrote: »
    Unless it get blocked I don't think it's likely. From here to June AZ is supposed to be ~1/4 of the vaccines we are going to get (https://i.redd.it/10z7x6xbhmp61.png) so not using it would set us back by 1-2 months.

    ultimately the AZ vaccines will become the emerging market / 3rd world vaccine of choice - its cheap to manufacture and first world economies will pivot towards the one shot J&J option or the RNA option which can be changed much quicker if required to cope with variants.

    Doubtful at this stage if AZ will even launch in US as their manufacturing location just got allocated to J&J and they need to find a new one.


  • #3920
    irishguy1983
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭irishguy1983


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    If you're in hospital past 6 on a Friday evening you're rarely gonna get out before Monday morning, Tuesday morning when it's a bank holiday. A lot of people working in hospitals are on fairly normal hours, including those who make the decision to discharge.


    Fun little study here. If you're admitted to hospital on a Sunday you're more likely to die. But at the same time fewer deaths happen at the weekend, likely due to a combination of a higher rate of people who could be at home (but haven't been signed out) and fewer risky procedures done and fewer new interventions with drugs.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3284293/

    Sound - appreciate the explanation!


  • #3921
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Don't be facetious.

    The one dose format has been practiced in the UK and Israel to a larger extent to Ireland.

    If it's good enough for the UK and Israel, who appear to be doing quite well I've noticed, then it's good enough for Ireland.

    Logic dictates that spreading out a highly efficacious first dose is better than administering a second dose too early. You vaccinate a greater number of the most vulnerable, faster.

    As others above have pointed out, Israel have been sticking to a 3-4 week gap.
    The UK, of the ~36 mil jabs, 20mil are AZ and like most/if not all countries worldwide are following AZ guidelines and going with a 12 week gap.

    There seems to be some confusion that the UK invented this 12 week gap for AZ, it's simply the manufacturer's guidelines.

    On Pfizer doses being spaced apart further than 4 weeks, the UK's own analysis showed the efficacy dropped after 4 weeks. No further data points were collected, so it's hard to imagine the efficacy increases week 1-4, drops on week 5 and then (without a booster) it magically increases from week 6 on wards.


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  • #3922
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    As more vaccines come on-stream, what would the likely approach be with the likes of Astrazeneca with a potential link to side effects? Could we reach a situation where vaccine availability allowed us to move away completely from reliance on Astra (if still not proved to be a cause of the clot issues, but potentially being)?
    Yes. When J&J come online, we will start seeing AZ being used as the vaccine of last resort. That is, we will burn through Pfizer, Modern and J&J as quickly as we can and will use AZ just to fill in the gaps. It's the easiest stored, but outside of that it's the inferior one.

    I still assert that this is why AZ were so keen to stiff the EU on supplies; because they know by the end of 2021 they won't be getting many orders from wealthy countries. So they prioritised delivery to those who were willing to overpay.


  • #3923
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    RoseStick wrote: »
    Many of the over 70s haven't been touched in my village and local community. I had to make an appointment at the GP the week before last and they were only just touching on the late 70 group like 75 to 79 but not even all of them. My mother in law is 76 and we are hoping she will be in the next round of vaccines.

    It's not surprising to me. Healthcare workers and residential homes were so important to work on first. It's a new vaccine and there's going to be a wait for vaccine.
    Many people think the Taoiseach can click his fingers and all over 70s are vaccinated like magic. People just need to be patient.

    I'm hearing of people now phoning the GPS surgery on a weekly basis to see where they are on the vaccine list. I would consider that to be harassment instead of allowing the surgery to get on with the work they have to do. They have to do work outside of covid too. Anybody who is harassing a GP surgery for vaccine should be moved to the back of the queue and waiting line.

    Are you even aware of the HSE website on vaccines where alot of work is on GPs. And specific groups will be contacted by their GPs.

    Good system that is. I put on weight during lockdown and my GP doesn't even know my BMI. But yeah, they'll contact me for a vaccine.


  • #3924
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    seamus wrote: »
    Yes. When J&J come online, we will start seeing AZ being used as the vaccine of last resort. That is, we will burn through Pfizer, Modern and J&J as quickly as we can and will use AZ just to fill in the gaps. It's the easiest stored, but outside of that it's the inferior one.

    I still assert that this is why AZ were so keen to stiff the EU on supplies; because they know by the end of 2021 they won't be getting many orders from wealthy countries. So they prioritised delivery to those who were willing to overpay.

    To be fair to AZ, this is not what they do. They are not a J&J or a Pfizer. They specialise in cost based deliver to emerging markets.....they’re a research specialist, not a massive commercial manufacturing operation. Their lack of experience was evident even in the way they sought their approvals. Given what they are, I think they have made an exceptional contribution


  • #3925
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    So, if only 0.1% of cases of Covid-19 are linked to outdoor transmission, is there a reason why construction, pubs/restaurants etc. serving outside etc. etc. etc. can't be relaxed now? Though presumably they had an idea of these stats a long time ago?


  • #3926
    covidrelease
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 229 ✭✭covidrelease


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    So, if only 0.1% of cases of Covid-19 are linked to outdoor transmission, is there a reason why construction, pubs/restaurants etc. serving outside etc. etc. etc. can't be relaxed now? Though presumably they had an idea of these stats a long time ago?

    No valid reason at this stage really, other than people will travel in a car or taxi together to meet others, more people on the dart, buses, chipper etc.

    But opening for say 15 or 20 outdoors would mitigate this risk.


  • #3927
    h2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭h2005


    Is there an official resource for hospital numbers?


  • #3928
    CoronaBlocker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 247 ✭✭CoronaBlocker


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    So, if only 0.1% of cases of Covid-19 are linked to outdoor transmission, is there a reason why construction, pubs/restaurants etc. serving outside etc. etc. etc. can't be relaxed now? Though presumably they had an idea of these stats a long time ago?

    This has been niggling away at me since that stat was published the other day - but haven't we always, sort of, known (suspected) that this was the case? They said a while ago now that all of those crazy scenes at the packed beaches in the UK last summer produced zero cases; and there has never been any noticeable spike from the BLM/Anti-Restriction protests either.

    Surely we must begin opening up the outdoor work/social options for people now. I can't think a of a reason as to why we can't start doing it immediately - unless of course the government is only capable of addressing matters in 6-week intervals..?

    At what point does caution simply turn into fear?


  • #3929
    Vicxas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,629 ✭✭✭✭Vicxas


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    So, if only 0.1% of cases of Covid-19 are linked to outdoor transmission, is there a reason why construction, pubs/restaurants etc. serving outside etc. etc. etc. can't be relaxed now? Though presumably they had an idea of these stats a long time ago?

    Surely we kind of have them over a barrel now with this.


  • #3930
    ninebeanrows
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,780 ✭✭✭✭ninebeanrows


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    So, if only 0.1% of cases of Covid-19 are linked to outdoor transmission, is there a reason why construction, pubs/restaurants etc. serving outside etc. etc. etc. can't be relaxed now? Though presumably they had an idea of these stats a long time ago?

    It's because of the variants don't ye know. Don't want to be giving them any air to breath.


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  • #3931
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,222 ✭✭✭prunudo


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    So, if only 0.1% of cases of Covid-19 are linked to outdoor transmission, is there a reason why construction, pubs/restaurants etc. serving outside etc. etc. etc. can't be relaxed now? Though presumably they had an idea of these stats a long time ago?

    At a minimum they should be allowing outdoor dining at cafes during daylight hours. We all know its really alcohol consumption they have the issue with but they just use a blanket approach like many other things throughout the last year.


This discussion has been closed.
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