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Covid 19 Part XXXIV-249,437 ROI(4,906 deaths) 120,195 NI (2,145 deaths)(01/05)Read OP

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Comments

  • #3212
    VeryWise
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 ✭VeryWise


    This is the same we know best, we can control the virus with rules mindset as the €9 meal, 5km travel etc. Golf now is higher risk if it’s in a competition. You couldn’t parody this lunacy. Meanwhile people meet in large groups outside (rightly so) antigen tests are ignored as a fast tool, contact tracing still doesn’t operate as needed and our media plus opposition support the clowns in charge. What am I missing?


  • #3213
    berocca2016
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 242 ✭✭berocca2016


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    I am not quite sure it is the case with golf. Lots of golf societies from all walks of life.

    Well that's the difference between perception and reality. There would be absolute outrage by the PbP types if golf courses were allowed open.


  • #3214
    iguana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,909 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    I had a dream last night that 4 million J&J doses arrived in Ireland. All around the country people watched the news of the plane full of vaccines arrive. And most of us cried with happiness. Waking up this morning was painful.


  • #3215
    shtpEdthePlum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭shtpEdthePlum


    I also regularly have vaccine dreams now, it's pathetic.

    Do ye think we'll hit 5000 deaths before we're all vaccinated?

    Has the pain we all endured this year been worth it for that? 5000 people dying in a population of 5m instead of possibly x4 that number?


  • #3216
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    shtpEdthePlum wrote: »
    I also regularly have vaccine dreams now, it's pathetic.

    Do ye think we'll hit 5000 deaths before we're all vaccinated?

    Has the pain we all endured this year been worth it for that? 5000 people dying in a population of 5m instead of possibly x4 that number?

    I think that is a positive way of looking at things. The restrictions have saved 15 - 20k lives. I think that is also a realistic figure.


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  • #3217
    JPup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭JPup


    shtpEdthePlum wrote: »
    I also regularly have vaccine dreams now, it's pathetic.

    Do ye think we'll hit 5000 deaths before we're all vaccinated?

    Has the pain we all endured this year been worth it for that? 5000 people dying in a population of 5m instead of possibly x4 that number?

    If we had never had any restrictions at all the number of deaths would have been much worse. In April 2020 and January 2021 we had about 1,500 excess deaths per month despite being in level 5 lockdown the whole time. I think we’d have hit 5k deaths per month pretty quickly last spring and we could still be at that level today if left unchecked.

    I suspect we’d have gone over 100k deaths from Covid without any restrictions with many more getting seriously ill. So in the end we can see that all the lockdowns have been very effective.


  • #3218
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,725 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    shtpEdthePlum wrote: »
    I also regularly have vaccine dreams now, it's pathetic.

    Do ye think we'll hit 5000 deaths before we're all vaccinated?

    Has the pain we all endured this year been worth it for that? 5000 people dying in a population of 5m instead of possibly x4 that number?

    4 x the number of deaths?

    Very questionable tbh, certainly with the population demographics in Ireland

    Knowing we implemented a plethora of different restrictions which one was the most effective at preventing deaths?

    Closing gyms and swimming pools?

    The 5km limit


  • #3219
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    4 x the number of deaths?

    Very questionable tbh, certainly with the population demographics in Ireland

    Knowing we implemented a plethora of different restrictions which one was the most effective at preventing deaths?

    Closing gyms and swimming pools?

    The 5km limit

    If you don’t understand at this stage why the 5km limit was brought in then you never will.


  • #3220
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,725 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Faugheen wrote: »
    If you don’t understand at this stage why the 5km limit was brought in then you never will.

    Believe me, I’ll never understand it.

    There is no logic behind why Irish people needed to be contained within 5km of their homes for 5 of the last 6 months


  • #3221
    Sono Topolino
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 509 ✭✭✭Sono Topolino


    People who actually follow the rules are the fools of the hour. Pity them.

    I used to be quite irritated by the complete and flagrant disregard for the rules that I saw all the time - e.g. joggers spitting on the pavement, groups of lads buying slabs of cans, out-of-county number plates on the road etc. However, eventually I came to realise that I was the fool. You will never convince people to sacrifice their happiness for an indefinite length of time. Even Leo had to have his cans in the park last summer.

    All of us have developed coping strategies, and almost all of our coping strategies involve breaking the rules - going for a swim on a beach just outside the 5km, meeting group of friends for coffee, maybe (shock/horror) going inside someone else's home. If you're an introvert, like me, who just goes for a run within 5km every few days - and is perfectly happy to supplement this with the odd video call, good for you. For once in your life, you - like me - are what society demands as the norm. Most of the time, you, like me, are anti-social weirdos. Take the opportunity to be smug, it will not last.

    The problem is that from the beginning there was no enforcement, and once the virus was brought under control there was no real attempt to keep it under control. So we are now looking at continuing as we are until the end of this year. What gives?

    At some stage, perhaps once all of the over 70s are vaccinated, someone has to say "enough" with the restrictions. By that stage, hopefully, the virus will be as bad as the flu for most of the population and catching it and getting sick is an unfortunate occurence. By that stage, hopefully, we can reopen society and the economy. But this is a political decision, which is not based on hard science, because the virus will keep mutating and eventually the vaccines that we currently have will be less effective against it. People will start dying again, and the politician who says "enough" will get vilified.

    Anyone who is honest about affairs will accept that it is unlikely that we will vaccinate enough people to satisfy that test. So reopening the economy in June is what makes the most sense - the Over 70s, or most of them, will have more protection. The Healthcare Workers have protection. The rest of us can get on with our lives, mutation shmutation, who will dare stop us? The government? Hah!

    I wish it were the case that between now and June we could implement a hard lockdown and drive the virus numbers back into the nether, and then with a mixture of mask wearing on public transport and strict travel bans and quarantine open society safely. However, for ideological reasons the government will not do that, and even if they would people wouldn't believe it possible. So I'm afraid, we're stuck with a recurring cycle of sh1t3.

    But onwards we must march. Try and find reasons to be cheerful every day and hold onto them - you'll need it.


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  • #3222
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    Brazil, a country with a complete lunatic in charge who couldn't care less about covid has a death rate around 1.5 times that of Ireland.

    What is the reasoning behind thinking we'd have 4 times our death rate without restrictions?

    A simple calculation if you don’t sh1t you burst.


  • #3223
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Believe me, I’ll never understand it.

    There is no logic behind why Irish people needed to be contained within 5km of their homes for 5 of the last 6 months

    There absolutely is logic behind it. It has been explained dozens upon dozens of times.

    The likes of you then come in here and peddle nonsense like you are now, acting like it has never been explained

    You say there is no logic behind it but that would require to really think about it in the first place.

    The funny thing is the answer is actually in your post I’m quoting now but you either can’t see it or you are just ignoring it.

    EDIT: the length of time I agree with you, for what it’s worth. It could have been lifted in February.


  • #3224
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,725 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Faugheen wrote: »
    There absolutely is logic behind it. It has been explained dozens upon dozens of times.

    The likes of you then come in here and peddle nonsense like you are now, acting like it has never been explained

    You say there is no logic behind it but that would require to really think about it in the first place.

    The funny thing is the answer is actually in your post I’m quoting now but you either can’t see it or you are just ignoring it.

    EDIT: the length of time I agree with you, for what it’s worth. It could have been lifted in February.

    Your not the only person to do this recently but I’m perplexed at why this happens.

    Your arguing back and forth and then admit you agree it’s not needed.


  • #3225
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Your not the only person to do this recently but I’m perplexed at why this happens.

    Your arguing back and forth and then admit you agree it’s not needed.

    No. I said it wasn’t needed for as long as it was.

    Your initial post stated it wasn’t needed at all.


  • #3226
    ninebeanrows
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,780 ✭✭✭✭ninebeanrows


    In 2 months the vulnerable and vulnerable age groups will be vaccinated.

    I think once that happens, people will feel they've done all they can and a return to a new normal will happen.

    Once we have the 60+ done and vulnerable groups, the fear factor will end.

    Once your older family members and vulnerable are done, we will no longer feel that fear.

    Think it is correct to hold firm for 6-8 weeks but after that, the restrictions must not be dragged out.

    We need to all buy in for this period knowing once June arrives we are back.


  • #3227
    funnydoggy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,065 ✭✭✭funnydoggy


    ninebeanrows wrote: »
    In 2 months the vulnerable and vulnerable age groups will be vaccinated.

    I think once that happens, people will feel they've done all they can and a return to a new normal will happen.

    Once we have the 60+ done and vulnerable groups, the fear factor will end.

    Once your older family members and vulnerable are done, we will no longer feel that fear.

    Think it is correct to hold firm for 6-8 weeks but after that, the restrictions must not be dragged out.

    We need to all buy in for this period knowing once June arrives we are back.

    We're gonna see some lovely numbers mid-month onwards I'd say.. can feel it in my waters haha!


  • #3228
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,725 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    ninebeanrows wrote: »

    Think it is correct to hold firm for 6-8 weeks but after that, the restrictions must not be dragged out.

    We need to all buy in for this period knowing once June arrives we are back.

    Seen as it’s the first time I’ve heard this I’ll buy in


  • #3229
    TanookiMario
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭TanookiMario


    Sono Topolino wrote: »
    People who actually follow the rules are the fools of the hour. Pity them.

    I used to be quite irritated by the complete and flagrant disregard for the rules that I saw all the time - e.g. joggers spitting on the pavement, groups of lads buying slabs of cans, out-of-county number plates on the road etc. However, eventually I came to realise that I was the fool. You will never convince people to sacrifice their happiness for an indefinite length of time. Even Leo had to have his cans in the park last summer.

    All of us have developed coping strategies, and almost all of our coping strategies involve breaking the rules - going for a swim on a beach just outside the 5km, meeting group of friends for coffee, maybe (shock/horror) going inside someone else's home. If you're an introvert, like me, who just goes for a run within 5km every few days - and is perfectly happy to supplement this with the odd video call, good for you. For once in your life, you - like me - are what society demands as the norm. Most of the time, you, like me, are anti-social weirdos. Take the opportunity to be smug, it will not last.

    The problem is that from the beginning there was no enforcement, and once the virus was brought under control there was no real attempt to keep it under control. So we are now looking at continuing as we are until the end of this year. What gives?

    At some stage, perhaps once all of the over 70s are vaccinated, someone has to say "enough" with the restrictions. By that stage, hopefully, the virus will be as bad as the flu for most of the population and catching it and getting sick is an unfortunate occurence. By that stage, hopefully, we can reopen society and the economy. But this is a political decision, which is not based on hard science, because the virus will keep mutating and eventually the vaccines that we currently have will be less effective against it. People will start dying again, and the politician who says "enough" will get vilified.

    Anyone who is honest about affairs will accept that it is unlikely that we will vaccinate enough people to satisfy that test. So reopening the economy in June is what makes the most sense - the Over 70s, or most of them, will have more protection. The Healthcare Workers have protection. The rest of us can get on with our lives, mutation shmutation, who will dare stop us? The government? Hah!

    I wish it were the case that between now and June we could implement a hard lockdown and drive the virus numbers back into the nether, and then with a mixture of mask wearing on public transport and strict travel bans and quarantine open society safely. However, for ideological reasons the government will not do that, and even if they would people wouldn't believe it possible. So I'm afraid, we're stuck with a recurring cycle of sh1t3.

    But onwards we must march. Try and find reasons to be cheerful every day and hold onto them - you'll need it.

    I do wonder how much the crowd who work from home in their cushy office jobs and drive to the supermarket once or twice a week actually understand how little enforcement is actually going on out there. Especially in Dublin.

    Our refrigerator stopped working at the end of February and while we waited for a replacement I had to go to the local Spar to get stuff almost every day. Every single time I went into that shop there were people inside without masks on. Not just once or twice. Every time. No enforcement at all.

    That's one example that is undoubtedly being repeated all over the country.

    Does anyone think that these folks who can't even be bothered to wear a mask for 5 minutes going into a shop are making sure they don't visit other people's homes etc? We are kidding ourselves on.

    The only people really affected by the lockdown are those who had to take a financial hit due to losing good jobs or not being able to find new jobs. There are many thousands out there who just do not care and are not bothered in the slightest by restrictions.

    As you say, it's the fools who are obeying the rules that are suffering the most.

    Basically the only area where restrictions have been enforced is hospitality and retail with business being forced to close. That's it. Everything else has been allowed to carry on with it being up to the individual to take responsibility for themselves.

    You can only laugh as you walk up Grafton Street to Stephen's Green where people are all heading out to meet friends in the park and have a few drinks. A queues for essential ice cream and fast food stretching down the street past business that have been forcibly closed for months.

    Mobs of 20 to 30 kids going around on bikes, throwing stuff at some people and hurling racist abuse at others when they have nothing left to throw. Not a Guard in sight, of course.

    Protest the lockdown and you'll get their full attention, mind you.


  • #3230
    wadacrack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,172 ✭✭✭wadacrack


    ninebeanrows wrote: »
    In 2 months the vulnerable and vulnerable age groups will be vaccinated.

    I think once that happens, people will feel they've done all they can and a return to a new normal will happen.

    Once we have the 60+ done and vulnerable groups, the fear factor will end.

    Once your older family members and vulnerable are done, we will no longer feel that fear.

    Think it is correct to hold firm for 6-8 weeks but after that, the restrictions must not be dragged out.

    We need to all buy in for this period knowing once June arrives we are back.

    Yea most can agree that this is the most sensible approach. But I do think a 4th wave is more likely. hopefully just a surge in cases without as many hospitalizations and deaths as before


  • #3231
    ninebeanrows
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,780 ✭✭✭✭ninebeanrows


    Marie Favrier out pumping the fear of variants on radio today I see.

    Saying it could totally undo the work on the vacinne.

    It is worrying a person with these outrageous views is on NPHET. This is what we are up against.

    At least Ronan Glynn has some nuance, some of the others on it are extremists.


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  • #3232
    irishguy1983
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭irishguy1983


    ninebeanrows wrote: »
    In 2 months the vulnerable and vulnerable age groups will be vaccinated.

    I think once that happens, people will feel they've done all they can and a return to a new normal will happen.

    Once we have the 60+ done and vulnerable groups, the fear factor will end.

    Once your older family members and vulnerable are done, we will no longer feel that fear.

    Think it is correct to hold firm for 6-8 weeks but after that, the restrictions must not be dragged out.

    We need to all buy in for this period knowing once June arrives we are back.

    I’d be happy enough with that too but come start of June I’d want to be at level 3 at least....I’ll base this on them hitting or getting close to vaccine numbers...


  • #3233
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    ninebeanrows wrote: »
    In 2 months the vulnerable and vulnerable age groups will be vaccinated.

    I think once that happens, people will feel they've done all they can and a return to a new normal will happen.
    A gradual return.

    The idea that everything can return immediately to normal has been debunked by experience in other countries, particularly Israel and Chile.

    Even with the highly vulnerable vaccinated, the disease hospitalises and kills enough of the "non vulnerable" that restrictions have to continue.

    Looking at Israel, I'd say we will start limited reopening (e.g. outdoor food) at about 50% vaccinated, but it will take more than that for a wider reopening. Thankfully at that stage we should be receiving over a million doses a month, so it'll be down to encouraging people to get vaccinated as to how quickly we can reach that point.


  • #3234
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,725 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    ninebeanrows wrote: »
    Marie Favrier out pumping the fear of variants on radio today I see.

    Saying it could totally undo the work on the vacinne.

    It is worrying a person with these outrageous views is on NPHET. This is what we are up against.

    At least Ronan Glynn has some nuance, some of the others on it are extremists.

    And some claim NPHET are only concerned with science and data


  • #3235
    shtpEdthePlum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭shtpEdthePlum


    If they really gave a sh!t about that they would be vaccinating whole regions at a go instead of this piddly mishmash of the whole country.


  • #3236
    Arturo Delgado
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 93 ✭✭Arturo Delgado


    ninebeanrows wrote: »
    Marie Favrier out pumping the fear of variants on radio today I see.

    Saying it could totally undo the work on the vacinne.

    It is worrying a person with these outrageous views is on NPHET. This is what we are up against.

    At least Ronan Glynn has some nuance, some of the others on it are extremists.

    Exactly, they don't waste time scaremongering. Already questioning the effectiveness of the vaccination campaign they championed.
    More lockdown fodder for storing.


  • #3237
    iguana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,909 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    hmmm wrote: »
    Thankfully at that stage we should be receiving over a million doses a month, so it'll be down to encouraging people to get vaccinated as to how quickly we can reach that point.

    And we do have a general national psyche which means most people will take the the vaccine. Even those who are a little nervous of taking a new vaccine will ultimately take it. Couple that with the emerging studies of vaccine efficacy and safety on children we will hopefully be in a position to start vaccinating younger teens, then children as, or not too long after, all adults have been offered the vaccine. It will hopefully mean that we have enough of the entire population vaccinated to achieve significant herd immunity before too long. Those who don't get vaccinated right away when offered it, may well choose to if they need it for travel and/or mass gatherings in the next few years.


  • #3238
    Azatadine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭Azatadine


    ninebeanrows wrote: »
    Marie Favrier out pumping the fear of variants on radio today I see.

    Saying it could totally undo the work on the vacinne.

    It is worrying a person with these outrageous views is on NPHET. This is what we are up against.

    At least Ronan Glynn has some nuance, some of the others on it are extremists.

    Her interview is headline news today. Back to square one no less.... apparently....

    Nonsense!


  • #3239
    covidrelease
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 229 ✭✭covidrelease


    hmmm wrote: »
    A gradual return.

    The idea that everything can return immediately to normal has been debunked by experience in other countries, particularly Israel and Chile.

    Even with the highly vulnerable vaccinated, the disease hospitalises and kills enough of the "non vulnerable" that restrictions have to continue.

    Looking at Israel, I'd say we will start limited reopening (e.g. outdoor food) at about 50% vaccinated, but it will take more than that for a wider reopening. Thankfully at that stage we should be receiving over a million doses a month, so it'll be down to encouraging people to get vaccinated as to how quickly we can reach that point.

    I'd be looking at the UK more than anywhere else, if they are fully open and no restrctions in middle of June we won't be far behind.

    It also needs to be remembered there was high prevelance of the virus when their vaccination program ramped up.

    If we reopen (reasonably unrestricted) with ~50% vaccinated and low prevelance, during the summer, I cant see the virus gaining a foothold.

    At moment it's about 1 in a 1000 people a day testing positive, if it goes to 1 in 5000, and 50% vaccinated, the rest will be vaccinated long before covid gets going.


  • #3240
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,290 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Quite frankly the emerging more powerful variants which seem less responsive to current vaccines are causing me concern. I hate to think about it, but I believe it will a couple of years before we are back to near normal, as vaccines and vaccination system are tweaked. I imagine foreign travel and indoor pubs are something which will be last to return to default.


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  • #3241
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,725 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Quite frankly the emerging more powerful variants which seem less responsive to current vaccines are causing me concern. I hate to think about it, but I believe it will a couple of years before we are back to near normal, as vaccines and vaccination system are tweaked. I imagine foreign travel and indoor pubs are something which will be last to return to default.

    I could have missed this but listening to Luke O Neill and other sources there is no evidence that any variant is less responsive to vaccines?


This discussion has been closed.
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