Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01

r93kaey5p2izun · 30-03-2021 11:08pm

DSN wrote: »

Wouldn't teachers sna crèche workers & guards the like some under group 9 ' working in crowded settings' ? So least they get done in parallel with the 55-64 cohort? That calc is rubbish is only based on the current run rate of vaccines.

I think that's unlikely given this category always existed as separate to, and ahead of, education staff.

am_zarathustra · 31-03-2021 1:14am

It's strange given the localized nature of schools they couldn't be done quickly. There are a around 750 secondarys, surely mobile units could be organized. Everyone is on site anyway.

Smells like there are more scandals in the wings and the logistics to prevent them going forward are lacking so a blunt instrumental approach is being taken

is_that_so · 31-03-2021 7:47am

Teachers unions, unsurprisingly, have questions on the new vaccination plan.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0331/1207115-ireland-education/

Leftwaffe · 31-03-2021 8:07am

They’ll roll back on this for teachers and gardai is my bet. They literally can’t get anything right, they need to make a horrendous error first before being corrected. Utterly useless government.

History Queen · 31-03-2021 8:11am

I hope they row back on it for carers, childcare workers, primary school staff, special school/class staff, SNAs and any others working in a caring capacity. I'm mainstream secondary. I can wait.

Leftwaffe · 31-03-2021 8:14am

History Queen wrote: »

I hope they row back on it for carers, childcare workers, primary school staff, special school/class staff, SNAs and any others working in a caring capacity. I'm mainstream secondary. I can wait.

Yeah that’s more accurate. I’d hope so yoo

31-03-2021 8:15am

History Queen wrote: »

I hope they row back on it for carers, childcare workers, primary school staff, special school/class staff, SNAs and any others working in a caring capacity. I'm mainstream secondary. I can wait.

Why not food processing workers, factory workers, supermarket staff etc etc etc

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 31-03-2021 8:18am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why not food processing workers, factory workers, supermarket staff etc etc etc

Agree, any workers who can't work remotely and where SD is impossible should be next in line after vulnerable are vaccinated.

namloc1980 · 31-03-2021 8:20am

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Agree, any workers who can't work remotely and where SD is impossible should be next in line after vulnerable are vaccinated.

Now the rollout is just much more complex and admin heavy. They're already having issues identifying the medically vulnerable, how do you propose they identify one type of worker over another?

History Queen · 31-03-2021 8:21am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why not food processing workers, factory workers, supermarket staff etc etc etc

They have mitigating measures for spread in factories such as regular testing which the ones I've listed don't have. Supermarket staff and factory workers are not in close proximity without masks/screens. They are also not dealing with care needs/bodily fluids.

Edit:i tried to include people most at risk maybe I've missed some groups if so I apologise. I was talking in termsof people I would like to see being vaccinated ahead of the changes proposed.

is_that_so · 31-03-2021 8:23am

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Agree, any workers who can't work remotely and where SD is impossible should be next in line after vulnerable are vaccinated.

That approach just produces a hierarchy of entitlement. The new version is easier to run and it's easier to track what age groups have been done.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 31-03-2021 8:25am

namloc1980 wrote: »

Now the rollout is just much more complex and admin heavy. They're already having issues identifying the medically vulnerable, how do you propose they identify one type of worker over another?

Names proceed by employer or overseeing councils etc. Not difficult.

Teaching Council could provide list of teachers in seconds for example. They could also do something useful for the first time since it's inception. Win win

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 31-03-2021 8:26am

is_that_so wrote: »

That approach just produces a hierarchy of entitlement. The new version is easier to run and it's easier to track what age groups have been done.

Hierarchy of potential spread based on number of contacts.

History Queen · 31-03-2021 8:26am

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Names proceed by employer or overseeing councils etc. Not difficult.

Teaching Council could provide list of teachers in seconds for example. They could also do something useful for the first time since it's inception. Win win

Ah now... you know how the Teaching Council feel about being useful! :pac:

is_that_so · 31-03-2021 8:28am

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Hierarchy of potential spread based on number of contacts.

We can't keep hiding behind potential risks. If you've survived this far without COVID you know what to do. If there were no vaccines you'd still be doing it.

namloc1980 · 31-03-2021 8:29am

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Names proceed by employer or overseeing councils etc. Not difficult.

Teaching Council could provide list of teachers in seconds for example. They could also do something useful for the first time since it's inception. Win win

You want every employer and lobby group in the country to produce a list of names for vaccination? Can you not see what an admin headache that is? And how do they rank those names? Who goes at number 1 versus number 1,000. What about supermarket workers or those in critical factory settings like food processing or pharmaceuticals etc?

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 31-03-2021 8:34am

namloc1980 wrote: »

You want every employer and lobby group in the country to produce a list of names for vaccination? Can you not see what an admin headache that is? And how do they rank those names? Who goes at number 1 versus number 1,000. What about supermarket workers or those in critical factory settings like food processing or pharmaceuticals etc?

Already said groups who can't social distance at work should be up next after vulnerable.

Vaccinating somebody working from home before people working on site and engaging with high numbers of people in close quarters makes zero sense.

Many posters on here often accuse others of being close-minded to possibilities when it came to keeping schools open. Now all of a sudden, an employer can't compile an alphabetical list of their workers for vaccination.

Funny, oppositional posting for the sake of it.

is_that_so · 31-03-2021 8:40am

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Already said groups who can't social distance at work should be up next after vulnerable.

Vaccinating somebody working from home before people working on site and engaging with high numbers of people in close quarters makes zero sense.

Many posters on here often accuse others of being close-minded to possibilities when it came to keeping schools open. Now all of a sudden, an employer can't compile an alphabetical list of their workers for vaccination.

Funny, oppositional posting for the sake of it.

There is a danger of people losing sight of what's going on here, mass vaccination of the public, not just teachers, HCWs or the vulnerable. The original groups are medically and ethically sound but as we can already see with group 4 it'll be quite a headache to work on with the old system. The new system is the same as everywhere else and easier to manage by age group. At the speed they are claiming we'll do it, being done in May or June should not matter.

r93kaey5p2izun · 31-03-2021 8:50am

is_that_so wrote: »

There is a danger of people losing sight of what's going on here, mass vaccination of the public, not just teachers, HCWs or the vulnerable. The original groups are medically and ethically sound but as we can already see with group 4 it'll be quite a headache to work on with the old system. The new system is the same as everywhere else and easier to manage by age group. At the speed they are claiming we'll do it, being done in May or June should not matter.

Where is this claim about such speed? He said 7 more weeks to finish just the over 70s. Are you saying an official claim has been made that all adults will be vaccinated by June 2021?? I'd love to read that, thank you.

But this is not the same as "everywhere else" - why would you claim that when workers such as teachers have been vaccinated ahead of other groups in many countries. Why be dishonest?

namloc1980 · 31-03-2021 8:50am

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Already said groups who can't social distance at work should be up next after vulnerable.

Vaccinating somebody working from home before people working on site and engaging with high numbers of people in close quarters makes zero sense.

Many posters on here often accuse others of being close-minded to possibilities when it came to keeping schools open. Now all of a sudden, an employer can't compile an alphabetical list of their workers for vaccination.

Funny, oppositional posting for the sake of it.

So now we're in alphabetical order. The 55 year old teacher who is at higher risk, but their name is Walsh, is at the bottom of the list while the 25 year old teacher whose name is Adams is at the top of the list even though their risk of serious illness or death is significantly lower. How is that fairer or better than the age based approach for all?

Darwin · 31-03-2021 8:54am

Harleigh Fluffy Muscle wrote: »

But this is not the same as "everywhere else" - why would you claim that when workers such as teachers have been vaccinated ahead of other groups in many countries. Why be dishonest?

This exactly, the poster is talking absolute nonsense, for example in many European countries essential frontline workers have been prioritised for vaccination.

r93kaey5p2izun · 31-03-2021 8:56am

Personally, as someone totally unaffected in any way by this change to vaccine priority lists, I am just very surprised at how well parents are accepting it.

TheValeyard · 31-03-2021 9:03am

is_that_so wrote: »

We can't keep hiding behind potential risks. If you've survived this far without COVID you know what to do. If there were no vaccines you'd still be doing it.

Doesnt work that way. I followed all the rules and guidelines still got infected.

is_that_so · 31-03-2021 9:05am

Harleigh Fluffy Muscle wrote: »

Where is this claim about such speed? He said 7 more weeks to finish just the over 70s. Are you saying an official claim has been made that all adults will be vaccinated by June 2021?? I'd love to read that, thank you.

But this is not the same as "everywhere else" - why would you claim that when workers such as teachers have been vaccinated ahead of other groups in many countries. Why be dishonest?

Always good to come in swinging! Martin listed it all off yesterday. If the supplies materialise we will be doing 1m+ just a month. Can't tell here if it's being in with gen pop is your issue. Group 10 as was would have been June anyway. It's about everyone and based on other countries, it's a far simpler way to do it. I'll also ask you to back your claim of my dishonesty, for learning purposes you know.

wirelessdude01 · 31-03-2021 9:05am

am_zarathustra wrote: »

It's strange given the localized nature of schools they couldn't be done quickly. There are a around 750 secondarys, surely mobile units could be organized. Everyone is on site anyway.

Smells like there are more scandals in the wings and the logistics to prevent them going forward are lacking so a blunt instrumental approach is being taken

Seemingly the story is that they cannot be sure who is and isn't a teacher. Wonder what the TC database is for then?

irishblessing · 31-03-2021 9:05am

TheValeyard wrote: »

Doesnt work that way. I followed all the rules and guidelines still got infected.

And some of us have children in school, and we can't socially distance from young children living with us.

Teens now may be a different story. :P

31-03-2021 9:07am

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Already said groups who can't social distance at work should be up next after vulnerable.

Vaccinating somebody working from home before people working on site and engaging with high numbers of people in close quarters makes zero sense.

Many posters on here often accuse others of being close-minded to possibilities when it came to keeping schools open. Now all of a sudden, an employer can't compile an alphabetical list of their workers for vaccination.

Funny, oppositional posting for the sake of it.

Sure by the time teachers get fully vacillated if prioritised it will be the summer holidays anyway. Much better to go with hospitality working over the summer first

is_that_so · 31-03-2021 9:07am

TheValeyard wrote: »

Doesnt work that way. I followed all the rules and guidelines still got infected.

Indeed. I've also followed guidelines and not been infected. Even at this stage I only know two people who've caught it.

TheValeyard · 31-03-2021 9:07am

irishblessing wrote: »

And some of us have children in school, and we can't socially distance from young children living with us.

Teens now may be a different story. :P

Teens definitely cannot socially distance themselves. Particularly at breaktime. They dont give a fcuk.

Also you're right about young kids. They literally crawl, jump, climb all over us. No chance to separate.

is_that_so · 31-03-2021 9:08am

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure by the time teachers get fully vacillated if prioritised it will be the summer holidays anyway. Much better to go with hospitality working over the summer first

Or anyone else who can make a case!

TheValeyard · 31-03-2021 9:09am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Seemingly the story is that they cannot be sure who is and isn't a teacher. Wonder what the TC database is for then?

Charging people money for a job for the boys. Quango.

r93kaey5p2izun · 31-03-2021 9:15am

is_that_so wrote: »

Always good to come in swinging! Martin listed it all off yesterday. If the supplies materialise we will be doing 1m+ just a month. Can't tell here if it's being in with gen pop is your issue. Group 10 as was would have been June anyway. It's about everyone and based on other countries, it's a far simpler way to do it. I'll also ask you to back your claim of my dishonesty, for learning purposes you know.

What a really weird post. I don't have an issue? I'm not affected by this is any way. I find your post difficult to decipher tbh. I listened to Martin, there was no indication of 1M a month by June.

Many countries have vaccinated their teachers as a priority group, for example Estonia, Slovakia, Poland, Italy and USA.

average_runner · 31-03-2021 9:18am

Harleigh Fluffy Muscle wrote: »

What a really weird post. I don't have an issue? I'm not affected by this is any way. I find your post difficult to decipher tbh. I listened to Martin, there was no indication of 1M a month by June.

Many countries have vaccinated their teachers as a priority group, for example Estonia, Slovakia, Poland, Italy and USA.

But why make them a priority group if by the time they get to them, they won't be in school?

Uk didn't have teachers in priority group and things going well there now.

TheValeyard · 31-03-2021 9:19am

average_runner wrote: »

But why make them a priority group if by the time they get to them, they won't be in school?

Suppose you'd want them all vaccinated by the start of the next school year, so a school can become a normal place of learning and socialising rather than the grim reality it currently is.

wadacrack · 31-03-2021 9:24am

SNA's getting vaccinated beinga priority I understand. Teachers and Gards no Im in my opinion. I think going by age after the most vulnerable are vaccinated is the correct step. Theirs a reason that is the protocol in most countries. Display bas for a certain job/role could lead to alot of upheaval and anger. It could set a precedent of people just getting vaccinated because they work in a certain role. Which is fundamentally wrong . When does that end with retail, meat plant workers or college workers etc.

average_runner · 31-03-2021 9:24am

TheValeyard wrote: »

Suppose you'd want them all vaccinated by the start of the next school year, so a school can become a normal place of learning and socialising rather than the grim reality it currently is.

Not really, i want the correct people that are more likely to be severely affected by the virus.

For too long the under 40's have been raving on that this virus is harmless to the younger group. Stats strongly support this also.

So it makes sense to work from older generation down. If a 30 year old teacher gets the virus and is already vaccinated, brings the virus home, here 55 year old parent could get it from them and die.

Have to protect the weaker groups first

r93kaey5p2izun · 31-03-2021 9:25am

average_runner wrote: »

But why make them a priority group if by the time they get to them, they won't be in school?

Uk didn't have teachers in priority group and things going well there now.

Yes, UK is doing it differently. Do you think our vaccine supply is comparable to the UK so as to draw reasonable comparison? But my post merely stated that it was untrue to state "everywhere else" is going just on age after elderly and HCW. It's just a factually incorrect statement, so I wonder why make it?

As for school holidays - I don't believe teachers would be done before August anyway, under any system. Now I believe it will be well into the new school year, probably 2022 for many teachers. Why prioritise them? For me the main argument would be so that children's education is prioritised and not disrupted into another school year. I thought that was a priority for parents. Their reaction is not what I expected at all.

is_that_so · 31-03-2021 9:28am

Harleigh Fluffy Muscle wrote: »

What a really weird post. I don't have an issue? I'm not affected by this is any way. I find your post difficult to decipher tbh. I listened to Martin, there was no indication of 1M a month by June.

Many countries have vaccinated their teachers as a priority group, for example Estonia, Slovakia, Poland, Italy and USA.

That's 4 countries! The 1m+ shots is from the HSE and Reid and others have said has said it more than once, supposedly from April. If it's been adjusted down that's because of the unreliability of AZ supplies.

average_runner · 31-03-2021 9:28am

Harleigh Fluffy Muscle wrote: »

Yes, UK is doing it differently. Do you think our vaccine supply is comparable to the UK so as to draw reasonable comparison? But my post merely stated that it was untrue to state "everywhere else" is going just on age after elderly and HCW. It's just a factually incorrect statement, so I wonder why make it?

As for school holidays - I don't believe teachers would be done before August anyway, under any system. Now I believe it will be well into the new school year, probably 2022 for many teachers. Why prioritise them? For me the main argument would be so that children's education is prioritised and not disrupted into another school year. I thought that was a priority for parents. Their reaction is not what I expected at all.

All the more important to protect the people that are more likely to be affected the virus. Teachers in their 50's will get done before teachers in their 30's. Everyone in their 50's should be done before the 30's as it affects them more

josip · 31-03-2021 9:29am

Harleigh Fluffy Muscle wrote: »

Personally, as someone totally unaffected in any way by this change to vaccine priority lists, I am just very surprised at how well parents are accepting it.

Probably because more parents of school children fall into the 45-54 cohort than any other new cohort.
This is the cohort that will benefit most from the change.

irishblessing · 31-03-2021 9:29am

Harleigh Fluffy Muscle wrote: »

Yes, UK is doing it differently. Do you think our vaccine supply is comparable to the UK so as to draw reasonable comparison? But my post merely stated that it was untrue to state "everywhere else" is going just on age after elderly and HCW. It's just a factually incorrect statement, so I wonder why make it?

As for school holidays - I don't believe teachers would be done before August anyway, under any system. Now I believe it will be well into the new school year, probably 2022 for many teachers. Why prioritise them? For me the main argument would be so that children's education is prioritised and not disrupted into another school year. thought that was a priority for parents. Their reaction is not what I expected at all

I'm a parent and I think it's a sham. It puts all of us at greater risk and also increases the likelihood that their class would revert to home teaching if the teacher were to fall ill. Honestly I'd be so utterly stressed if I were a teacher. I don't know how they face it especially in primary school with a small over crowded classroom of unmasked pupils...

is_that_so · 31-03-2021 9:31am

irishblessing wrote: »

I'm a parent and I think it's a sham. It puts all of us at greater risk and also increases the likelihood that their class would revert to home teaching if the teacher were to fall ill. Honestly I'd be so utterly stressed if I were a teacher. I don't know how they face it especially in primary school with a small over crowded classroom of unmasked pupils...

We'd still be into the summer for shots regardless of how they are done.

irishblessing · 31-03-2021 9:31am

average_runner wrote: »

All the more important to protect the people that are more likely to be affected the virus. Teachers in their 50's will get done before teachers in their 30's. Everyone in their 50's should be done before the 30's as it affects them more

But doesn't the risk factor of this particular profession put them in a far worse position than age does?

irishblessing · 31-03-2021 9:31am

is_that_so wrote: »

We'd still be into the summer for shots regardless of how they are done.

And what about for next year? You don't forsee more issues with supply and rollout?

r93kaey5p2izun · 31-03-2021 9:32am

average_runner wrote: »

All the more important to protect the people that are more likely to be affected the virus. Teachers in their 50's will get done before teachers in their 30's. Everyone in their 50's should be done before the 30's as it affects them more

I don't disagree, my concerns are based purely around disrupted education, not the health of education staff. And as I said, I'm really surprised to see parents accept that health outcomes of adults outside the high risk groups will be prioritised over children's school attendance for another school year.

average_runner · 31-03-2021 9:34am

irishblessing wrote: »

But doesn't the risk factor of this particular profession put them in a far worse position than age does?

How many 30/40 year old teachers have died ? Virus has minimum impact on the most that age.

is_that_so · 31-03-2021 9:34am

irishblessing wrote: »

And what about for next year? You don't forsee more issues with supply and rollout?

Nope, at that stage we'll be awash in vaccines! I reckon it'll become more like the flu' jab programme.

r93kaey5p2izun · 31-03-2021 9:35am

is_that_so wrote: »

We'd still be into the summer for shots regardless of how they are done.

You have great confidence in our vaccine programme. I think it's likely we will be well into a new school year and indeed a new calendar year by the time most education staff are vaccinated, let alone the summer! If I had your faith I would fully understand this change to roll out, but as it stands I'm really surprised by it and by how supportive parents are being of it.

average_runner · 31-03-2021 9:37am

Harleigh Fluffy Muscle wrote: »

I don't disagree, my concerns are based purely around disrupted education, not the health of education staff. And as I said, I'm really surprised to see parents accept that health outcomes of adults outside the high risk groups will be prioritised over children's school attendance for another school year.

Because losing a parent has more of an effect on a kid than losing 6 weeks of education.

average_runner · 31-03-2021 9:38am

irishblessing wrote: »

And what about for next year? You don't forsee more issues with supply and rollout?

Come summer vaccines will be well in supply. Uk already said they will supply Ireland also, as the north can't open fully they said

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

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Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01