Two nations one team!

downcow · 30-03-2021 12:39pm #1

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/ireland-too-small-for-two-soccer-teams-and-should-be-all-island-side-ff-senator-1.4522867

Is this the ‘go to position’ every time the ROI football team have a particularly bad run? I can’t really decide whether it is, offensive, laughable, or just plain sad.

From my perspective, the most absurd quote I have heard in a long time is in this article.

Seanad leader Regina Doherty agreed that “it is something we should be talking about”. She told Senators it “probably should be less contentious” than some of the other topics in the Government’s Shared Island initiative

Although this quote in the same article, gives it a very close run.
Mr Gallagher said “the reality is that for two small nations like Northern Ireland and the Republic to have two soccer teams on a small island, one island and expect them to compete at international level is simply not on anymore”

I have to disagree strongly with Regina Doherty. As a Unionist, but more importantly a Northern Ireland football supporter, her suggestion that this may be ‘less contentious’ is absurd. I wonder with Regina Doherty find it fairly uncontentious if England set about creating a British isles team to replace the five nations teams.

And I am genuinely interested, is it embarrassing as a ROI football fan when your politicians ask to get joining with another nation every time your team plays crap?

I am also interested is there any other teams in the world that is made up of two nations?

This reminds me a little of when ROI pled to have an additional (33rd) place created at the World Cup because Henri had scored by handling the ball and knocking ROI out. Your team is still affectionately known by Northern Ireland supporters to this day as ‘Team 33’

Signore Fancy Pants · 30-03-2021 12:40pm

Ireland just need to give up this football lark.

They're shyte.

cdeb · 30-03-2021 12:41pm

The size of the island has nothing at all to do with how bad we are. Croatia has 4m people and got to the World Cup Final.

John Delaney, coaching in Ireland, and people's insistence on supporting foreign leagues over the domestic league are far bigger issues. How many politicians have spoken out about those issues? And how many have jumped in on photoshoots with Delaney down the years and said he's a great lad?

Usual politicians blathering on about something they know nothing about just to get their name in the papers.

osarusan · 30-03-2021 12:41pm

Every time the Irish team has a bad spell, there are various pie-in-the-sky notions on how to remedy it, such as a 'Celtic Nations League', 'North Atlantic League', Irish teams ('Leinster' or 'Munster' style) in the Premier League, absurd restructuring of the domestic league, and so on, put forward by deluded people who have f**k all understanding of Irish football.

This is one such deluded notion.

Donald Trump · 30-03-2021 12:43pm

Soccerball.

Quin_Dub · 30-03-2021 12:43pm

downcow wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/ireland-too-small-for-two-soccer-teams-and-should-be-all-island-side-ff-senator-1.4522867

Is this the ‘go to position’ every time the ROI football team have a particularly bad run? I can’t really decide whether it is, offensive, laughable, or just plain sad.

From my perspective, the most absurd quote I have heard in a long time is in this article.

Seanad leader Regina Doherty agreed that “it is something we should be talking about”. She told Senators it “probably should be less contentious” than some of the other topics in the Government’s Shared Island initiative

Although this quote in the same article, gives it a very close run.
Mr Gallagher said “the reality is that for two small nations like Northern Ireland and the Republic to have two soccer teams on a small island, one island and expect them to compete at international level is simply not on anymore”

I have to disagree strongly with Regina Doherty. As a Unionist, but more importantly a Northern Ireland football supporter, her suggestion that this may be ‘less contentious’ is absurd. I wonder with Regina Doherty find it fairly uncontentious if England set about creating a British isles team to replace the five nations teams.

And I am genuinely interested, is it embarrassing as a ROI football fan when your politicians ask to get joining with another nation every time your team plays crap?

I am also interested is there any other teams in the world that is made up of two nations?

This reminds me a little of when ROI pled to have an additional (33rd) place created at the World Cup because Henri had scored by handling the ball and knocking ROI out. Your team is still affectionately known by Northern Ireland supporters to this day as ‘Team 33’

Yes - Every single other team sport played on the island of Ireland for a start.

Soccer is the anomaly here , not the norm.

Not disputing the thrust of the underlying argument - Suggesting they join up just because the current Republic team isn't competitive is a bit silly , but pretty much every other sport has a "whole island" approach in terms of how they run competitions , select representative teams etc.

duffman13 · 30-03-2021 12:44pm

Clueless from her. Makes sense practically when you take nothing else into consideration but NI supporters are fanatical about their team as are a lot of ROI supporters. I've gone to Windsor twice and there is still a sectarian element to some of the hard-core fans and this isn't likely to change in the short term. 10-15 years time then maybe but I genuinely think people who from the Republic don't have a clue how divided communities still are in some parts of NI. Any reunification project is going to be extremely difficult and a lot of hard work

ELM327 · 30-03-2021 12:45pm

We are useless at soccer

People assume because the one nation rugby team is good then the one nation soccer team would also be.
Interestingly, the IRFU predated the partition and remained a one nation team. The original "Ireland" soccer team was actually Northern Ireland and the IFA. The FAI and "ROI" team was created after partition. If there were to be "one team" again, it would be the northern team.

duffman13 · 30-03-2021 12:46pm

cdeb wrote: »

The size of the island has nothing at all to do with how bad we are. Croatia has 4m people and got to the World Cup Final.

John Delaney, coaching in Ireland, and people's insistence on supporting foreign leagues over the domestic league are far bigger issues. How many politicians have spoken out about those issues? And how many have jumped in on photoshoots with Delaney down the years and said he's a great lad?

Usual politicians blathering on about something they know nothing about just to get their name in the papers.

John Delany and the football governance in Ireland is directly responsible for the LOI and coaching. The current set up doesn't inspire much confidence either but from the 80s and the growth in popularity of the sport, we've never made strides in the background to make us better equipped for long term success

begbysback · 30-03-2021 12:49pm

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Ireland just need to give up this football lark.

They're shyte.

Only because we effectively have a Phoenix park Sunday league manager

Donald Trump · 30-03-2021 12:49pm

The Government should just ban it and then take the funding away from the oul' soccerball and instead put it directly into the prisons. Most of the followers will end up there anyway*

(*joking ......... well kinda half joking)

cdeb · 30-03-2021 12:49pm

duffman13 wrote: »

John Delany and the football governance in Ireland is directly responsible for the LOI and coaching. The current set up doesn't inspire much confidence either but from the 80s and the growth in popularity of the sport, we've never made strides in the background to make us better equipped for long term success

Yep. And it's not just that the FAI have inadvertently if well-meaningly mismanaged it. They've actively been incompetent and dismissive of progressive coaching ideas because they know best.

This article - from 6½ years ago - makes depressing reading as a senior SFAI official says “What the **** would [the Spanish and German FA] know about Irish football?” when recommendations were put to them by the FAI's High Performance Director.

These idiots hold too much sway.

Signore Fancy Pants · 30-03-2021 12:49pm

I'm 40 and the only notable football event that I can remember was whatever happened at Italia '90 when I was 9.

What have we achieved since? Genuine question.

Donald Trump · 30-03-2021 12:50pm

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

I'm 40 and the only notable football event that I can remember was whatever happened at Italia '90 when I was 9.

What have we achieved since? Genuine question.

JD got 3 million from a crowd called FIFA because a French fella thought he was playing Junior B corner forward

30-03-2021 12:53pm

National politics would be easy to overcome.

Footballing politics between the IFA and FAI would be impossible.

cdeb · 30-03-2021 12:55pm

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

I'm 40 and the only notable football event that I can remember was whatever happened at Italia '90 when I was 9.

What have we achieved since? Genuine question.

Qualified for two World Cups and two Euros, getting out of the groups three times in those four tournaments.

Won two European underage Championships and reached a World Cup semi-final at U20 level.

Got three teams to the EL groups in the past decade. Dundalk - managed by Stephen Kenny - were a whisker away from the CL groups in 2016.

That's decent stuff and we won't be doing it for a while to come.

SEPT 23 1989 · 30-03-2021 12:55pm

you would have to segregate the "home" fans

ELM327 · 30-03-2021 12:56pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

you would have to segregate the "home" fans

What a hilariously depressingly accurate comment.

realdanbreen · 30-03-2021 1:00pm

downcow wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/ireland-too-small-for-two-soccer-teams-and-should-be-all-island-side-ff-senator-1.4522867

[/B]

And I am genuinely interested, is it embarrassing as a ROI football fan when your politicians ask to get joining with another nation every time your team plays crap?

No not really. Now what would be embarressing for a unionist like yourself would be knowing that the brits finally made up their mind to ditch ye after the DUP held Therese May's government to ransom a few years back.
But don't worry we will treat ye every bit as fair as ye treated Nationalists when we have a ubited Ireland.

Dyr · 30-03-2021 1:18pm

tbh the government should have told the FAI to go and whistle for a bailout, let them collapse and have the LOI teams go their own way free from Merrion Square.

Corner boys the lot

30-03-2021 1:28pm

ELM327 wrote: »

We are useless at soccer

People assume because the one nation rugby team is good then the one nation soccer team would also be.
Interestingly, the IRFU predated the partition and remained a one nation team. The original "Ireland" soccer team was actually Northern Ireland and the IFA. The FAI and "ROI" team was created after partition. If there were to be "one team" again, it would be the northern team.

That's right. The FAI would have to disappear, the name anyway. Probably the HQ would be in Belfast.

ted1 · 30-03-2021 1:31pm

cdeb wrote: »

The size of the island has nothing at all to do with how bad we are. Croatia has 4m people and got to the World Cup Final.

John Delaney, coaching in Ireland, and people's insistence on supporting foreign leagues over the domestic league are far bigger issues. How many politicians have spoken out about those issues? And how many have jumped in on photoshoots with Delaney down the years and said he's a great lad?

Usual politicians blathering on about something they know nothing about just to get their name in the papers.

Do Croatia play GAA, Hurley and Rugby?

Our talent pool is spread across 4 big sports.

Chiarrai19 · 30-03-2021 1:31pm

'every time your team plays crap. How's your own team doing there? Or are you confused over the your own part. Typical of Unionists to point fingers and not offer any constructive input, think Brexit.

My own thoughts are we need to form a sort of feeder team within Ireland that competes within the Senior League and is an-Ireland approach. This would be backed by the appropriate funding and coaches and incentivizes young players to not make the trip abroad but rather form part of a team that grows and succeeds nationally and then internationally, backed up by younger premier league players lacking experience. Then use those home-grown players as a part of the Ireland under age setup and give them the option to join bigger teams should the opportunity present itself, maybe after the age of 25. That would similar to the route our best player took Seamus Coleman.

Back to the point of pointing fingers from our unionist friend, should what I propose be successful- you wouldn't be long jumping ship. That's for another day though I'll leave you to your deluded stance on everything and offering nothing to an argument, when's the last time Northern Ireland brought success or to your own words not 'played crap' 86, 82 don't remember anything else

cdeb · 30-03-2021 1:33pm

ted1 wrote: »

Do Croatia play GAA, Hurley and Rugby?

Our talent pool is spread across 4 big sports.

Lots of countries play other sports. Do we play basketball or Olympic handball? They're huge in Croatia.

We need to get away from that line of thinking.

ted1 · 30-03-2021 1:33pm

Let’s merge the two national teams. Then create 4 provincial sides maybe a 5th of just Dublin

Do the same in Scotland and Wales. And play a proper league and cup

Zaph · 30-03-2021 1:35pm

begbysback wrote: »

Only because we effectively have a Phoenix park Sunday league manager

In fairness, it's not just down to him. We have quite a few Phoenix Park Sunday league players too. Gone are the days when every player on the team was a Premier League player, very often with one of the bigger teams. Now every time a team sheet is published I have to look up at least a couple of the players to find out who they play for. We had a keeper who plays for Rochdale in the last game ffs. Admittedly he's on loan from Man City, but I don't see City rushing to give him first team football any time soon. And what would merging with NI actually achieve, they're not a million miles better than us at the moment anyway, it would just be like two Sunday league teams getting together.

realdanbreen · 30-03-2021 1:38pm

ted1 wrote: »

Let’s merge the two national teams. Then create 4 provincial sides maybe a 5th of just Dublin

Do the same in Scotland and Wales. And play a proper league and cup

We could do like the rugby. one 32 county team and of course we would select a couple of token ulster players to keep everyone happy!

Gregor Samsa · 30-03-2021 1:41pm

Aegir wrote: »

Footballing politics between the IFA and FAI would be impossible.

True, there'd be no chance if the farmers were involved.

basill · 30-03-2021 1:44pm

Cream rises to the top. Problem is there is no cream.

L1011 · 30-03-2021 1:44pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

you would have to segregate the "home" fans

Many of the Unionist NI fans would vanish, some would go support Scotland and/or England (plenty of 'second team' stuff there already)

I know a guy who's dad played for NI in the mid 80s, huge Linfield fan - deeply wants an all-Ireland league as it could improve the quality and competitiveness but wouldn't even watch an international if it was an all-Ireland team.

dan1895 · 30-03-2021 1:47pm

ted1 wrote: »

Let’s merge the two national teams. Then create 4 provincial sides maybe a 5th of just Dublin

Do the same in Scotland and Wales. And play a proper league and cup

Every f*cling time. No! That's not how football works.

Oranage2 · 30-03-2021 1:47pm

I wonder could we do like a team of islands, bring Iceland and the Faroe Islands and we could form 'The Islanders'

riffmongous · 30-03-2021 1:49pm

begbysback wrote: »

Only because we effectively have a Phoenix park Sunday league manager

Yeah right, that's the only reason, not like we were beating f'ing Gibraltar by 1-0 and 2-0 a few years ago :rolleyes:

Fionn1952 · 30-03-2021 1:50pm

downcow wrote: »

I wonder with Regina Doherty find it fairly uncontentious if England set about creating a British isles team to replace the five nations teams.

The British and Irish Lions team has been a relative success in the rugby, so the idea isn't inherently as ridiculous as you suggest, at least for exhibition tour type of events. With the soccer, English standards are probably prohibitively higher than that of the other nations to have anything but token representation, so it wouldn't work.

Tis the beauty of sport.....I can absolutely despise Owen Farrell and his incredibly punchable face when he lines up for England, and support him when he's playing for the Lions against South Africa (though it doesn't do much for the punchable face factor).....I can think Johnny Sexton is a great lad when he lines up for Ireland, but hate him when he's playing for Leinster.

That being said, as someone from the North who has felt completely alienated and unable to support the NI team for my entire lifetime, I still wouldn't support the amalgamation of the two soccer teams (at least not pre-Unification). I don't believe the two together would be competitive just because we are with the rugby. I don't see any tangible benefit in it, and all I can see happening is that genuine NI fans would be left without a team; regardless of how it is presented, a significant cohort would see an all island team as just the Irish team and be about as likely to support it as I am with the NI team.

I do think your estimation of NI's, 'success' is overblown though. If I'm not mistaken, FIFA still have them ranked below ROI (45th vs 42nd, so same ballpark) One bad result for your rivals (or a string of absolutely tedious horrible football if we're being frank) doesn't make NI world beaters, no matter how many songs about Will Grigg go viral.

downcow · 30-03-2021 1:53pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

you would have to segregate the "home" fans

Haha. I enjoyed this. But probably not the reality. 90% of current ni fans would either stop supporting international football or transfer their allegiance to another nation they feel warm towards

ted1 · 30-03-2021 1:55pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

We could do like the rugby. one 32 county team and of course we would select a couple of token ulster players to keep everyone happy!

Well we had another, but he now plays for London irish, so isn’t eligible.

ted1 · 30-03-2021 1:57pm

dan1895 wrote: »

Every f*cling time. No! That's not how football works.

Guess what , Football in Ireland currently doesn’t work.
Take you’re head out of the sand
A change is needed.

Donald Trump · 30-03-2021 1:57pm

riffmongous wrote: »

Yeah right, that's the only reason, not like we were beating f'ing Gibraltar by 1-0 and 2-0 a few years ago :rolleyes:

Nostalgic for the glory days?

Donald Trump · 30-03-2021 1:58pm

ted1 wrote: »

Guess what , Football in Ireland currently doesn’t work.
Take you’re head out of the sand
A change is needed.

They could try bringing the GAA Assimilation Committee back on board

Omackeral · 30-03-2021 2:00pm

ted1 wrote: »

Then create 4 provincial sides maybe a 5th of just Dublin

People will turn up in their droves to watch those teams alright....

The people in this country who give a rats about supporting their own in a traditional sense already do it, although many are derided for it. The rest pretend to be Scousers and Mancs every weekend...funny how it's never really Brummies, despite our massive emigration to Birmingham

We have a very very odd football culture in this country. We nearly base our national identity on hating the English yet cling to their league as if it's our own.

Omackeral · 30-03-2021 2:03pm

dan1895 wrote: »

Every f*cling time. No! That's not how football works.

Imagine they made a team called Dublin City. And it played in the Dublin GAA colours and all. And they gave them a catchy nickname like ''The Vikings'' or something like that. Of course people would support them.

Sunny Disposition · 30-03-2021 2:04pm

Politicians should probably keep out of these discussions at the moment.. If a demand within the game comes from it, well and good. With northerners allowed play for the Republic it's probably time to let the issue lie for a little while. Ken Earley had a great article about the state of Ireland in yesterday's Irish Times, basically says that Kenny has tried to bring Ireland out of the dark ages, that there is no particularly good reason to expect Ireland to be hammering Luxembourg despite theatrical posturing since the weekend and that those who want to go back to the tactics Ireland played for maybe 30 years are seriously regressive.
On another point, why does Ireland never produce any top notch attacking players? Robbie Keane was okay, but before him Frank Stapleton was the last major dangerman. Another article last weekend said that Irish players always look shocked after they score a goal.

Omackeral · 30-03-2021 2:06pm

ted1 wrote: »

Guess what , Football in Ireland currently doesn’t work.
Take you’re head out of the sand
A change is needed.

You take you are head out of the sand. Who is going to support these provincial teams? You? I certainly won't. I go to games every single week (well did

) and I wouldn't just stop. Don't think Paddy Premiership will be giving up United or Liverpool either somehow.

cdeb · 30-03-2021 2:06pm

ted1 wrote: »

Guess what , Football in Ireland currently doesn’t work.
Take you’re head out of the sand
A change is needed.

Guess what - nothing in what you proposed would actually address the root issues, which is awful coaching at junior levels, a bankrupt FAI, and people supporting foreign teams rather than local teams.

(I've no problems with supporting foreign teams btw - but if you're concerned about the national team, then you can support a foreign team and the LoI)

cdeb · 30-03-2021 2:08pm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

On another point, why does Ireland never produce any top notch attacking players? Robbie Keane was okay, but before him Frank Stapleton was the last major dangerman. Another article last weekend said that Irish players always look shocked after they score a goal.

Slightly harsh on Niall Quinn and Damien Duff I think. Ok, Duffer was a winger rather than a forward, which I think is more what you meant, but he was a super player. Quinny could play a bit too.

But yeah, we do seem to specialise in keepers (GAA influence?) and tacklers.

Omackeral · 30-03-2021 2:08pm

cdeb wrote: »

(I've no problems with supporting foreign teams btw - but if you're concerned about the national team, then you can support a foreign team and the LoI)

I would love if more people did that. The games seldom clash and the teams would rarely meet. If we were truly the best fans in the world like we sometimes think we are or others think we are, we'd support our own teams week in and week out. That shouldn't be controversial to say.

ted1 · 30-03-2021 2:11pm

Omackeral wrote: »

You take you are head out of the sand. Who is going to support these provincial teams? You? I certainly won't. I go to games every single week (well did ) and I wouldn't just stop. Don't think Paddy Premiership will be giving up United or Liverpool either somehow.

Those games can continue

Omackeral · 30-03-2021 2:15pm

ted1 wrote: »

Those games can continue

So what is it you're suggesting? Who do Leinster, Munster, Connaught, Ulster and Dublin play against? Or what competition are they competing in?

dan1895 · 30-03-2021 2:17pm

ted1 wrote: »

Guess what , Football in Ireland currently doesn’t work.
Take you’re head out of the sand
A change is needed.

Good man. What happens when UEFA don't allow us to have a national team because we don't have a full time league with promotion and relegation?

cdeb · 30-03-2021 2:17pm

Ah sure they can just play Celtic and Rangers and Ulster and Swansea and it'll be brilliant. Everyone'll come watching. Because football is exactly the same as rugby in its set up - strange but true.

cdeb · 30-03-2021 2:19pm

dan1895 wrote: »

Good man. What happens when UEFA don't allow us to have a national team because we don't have a full time league with promotion and relegation?

Well - be careful with that one. No promotion/relegation in Gibraltar any more. And the BeNe league is a tester too.

But the easier way to rebuff the suggestion is that it would have no hope of achieving any of the benefits often attributed to it.

Two nations one team!

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