Two nations one team!

dan1895

Omackeral wrote: »

Imagine they made a team called Dublin City. And it played in the Dublin GAA colours and all. And they gave them a catchy nickname like ''The Vikings'' or something like that. Of course people would support them.

Selling thousands of jersies to tourists bringing the brand global. Unstoppable.

yourdeadwright

Not possible due to the fan base, there would be trouble among fans ,

No point beating around the bush the loyalist fan base from the north will be the issue,

Omackeral

cdeb wrote: »

Well - be careful with that one. No promotion/relegation in Gibraltar any more.

Gibraltar being admitted to UEFA/FIFA as a full time nation was ridiculous. Literally every team in the league plays in the same stadium.

cdeb

Not uncommon in small countries in fairness. San Marino and Andorra share grounds too.

ted1

Omackeral wrote: »

So what is it you're suggesting? Who do Leinster, Munster, Connaught, Ulster and Dublin play against? Or what competition are they competing in?

In a league/ cup with Scottish and Welsh teams.
There would be an All Ireland league for the clubs as there is in rugby

Omackeral

dan1895 wrote: »

Selling thousands of jersies to tourists bringing the brand global. Unstoppable.

Carrolls gift shop represent!

ratracer

What would happen to Amhrán na bhFiann? It was bad enough that the other sports sold out to that Ireland’s Call sh1te......

dan1895

cdeb wrote: »

Well - be careful with that one. No promotion/relegation in Gibraltar any more. And the BeNe league is a tester too.

But the easier way to rebuff the suggestion is that it would have no hope of achieving any of the benefits often attributed to it.

I'm aware of the Gibraltar situation but that's because they have such a small population in the tens of thousands. We have nearly five million. The Belgium/Netherlands situation is the coming together from two associations who want to do it and have been working on it for years. Not people slinging **** in the hopes that it will stick.

Omackeral

ted1 wrote: »

In a league/ cup with Scottish and Welsh teams.
There would be an All Ireland league for the clubs as there is in rugby

Just so we're clear. Which Welsh teams are in this? Are Swansea, Wrexham, Cardiff in it or is it the ones from the League of Wales you've never heard of that play in front of 100's of people on average match days? What about the Scottish clubs? Are Rangers and Celtic in this one or are they in their own mini league of two? How far down the Scottish leagues do we go? Will I have to do Stenhousemuir away in November?

ted1

Omackeral wrote: »

No just so we're clear. Which Welsh teams are in this? Are Swansea, Wrexham, Cardiff in it or is it the ones from the League of Wales you've never heard of that play in front of 100's of people on average match days? What about the Scottish clubs? Are Rangers and Celtic in this one or are they in their own mini league of two? How far down the Scottish leagues do we go? Will I have to do Stenhousemuir away in November?

Let the relevant FA’s nominate teams.

Sunny Disposition

cdeb wrote: »

Slightly harsh on Niall Quinn and Damien Duff I think. Ok, Duffer was a winger rather than a forward, which I think is more what you meant, but he was a super player. Quinny could play a bit too.

But yeah, we do seem to specialise in keepers (GAA influence?) and tacklers.

Duff was a great player, but a winger really, sometimes played out of position. Quinn was good at what he did, but he wasn't someone who you'd expect to get 15-20 goals most seasons in the premier league say.

We've had heaps of great defenders over the years, McGrath, Irwin, Kelly etc, even that centre half now from Derry is incredible in the air, but he seems to have lost form. Plenty of good midfielders too, even since Keane, but goalscorers are gone missing.

cdeb

dan1895 wrote: »

I'm aware of the Gibraltar situation but that's because they have such a small population in the tens of thousands. We have nearly five million. The Belgium/Netherlands situation is the coming together from two associations who want to do it and have been working on it for years. Not people slinging **** in the hopes that it will stick.

True, but if there's exceptions, then there could (in theory) be an exception for a Celtic League.

The better counter-argument to a Celtic League is that it has no hope whatsoever of delivering what people say it will, and is usually proposed by people who wouldn't go to games before or afterwards anyway.

cdeb

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Duff was a great player, but a winger really, sometimes played out of position. Quinn was good at what he did, but he wasn't someone who you'd expect to get 15-20 goals most seasons in the premier league say.

True - though I don't think Stapleton's goalscoring record was great either.

But that's splitting hairs really. Bottom line is it's a good question.

Omackeral

ted1 wrote: »

Let the relevant FA’s nominate teams.

Why. What's in it for them? Cardiff and Swansea wouldn't want to leave one of the best leagues in Europe to play against Bray Wanderers in the Carlisle Grounds. Are you basically just saying stuff for the craic?

Omackeral

cdeb wrote: »

True, but if there's exceptions, then there could (in theory) be an exception for a Celtic League.

The better counter-argument to a Celtic League is that it has no hope whatsoever of delivering what people say it will, and is usually proposed by people who wouldn't go to games before or afterwards anyway.

The Setanta Sports Cup basically shows that people don't care for an All-Ireland league in any great capacity. The people that would have went to it pretty much stopped going in any real meaningful numbers, so much so that the tournament ended. A one off challenge game between the two FA's is grand. Cobh Ramblers vs Limavady isn't going to get arses on seats.

ebbsy

I suggested this on the Soccer forum.

dan1895

There used to be a football forum somewhere, possibly foot.ie that would just ban posters for making these suggestions as the ground had been covered so many times always with the conclusion that it's unworkable.

cdeb

Don't think foot banned people over it, but certainly the topics died a quick death because of the reasons you mention.

No bad thing either.

dan1895

Maybe it was just a warning or it could have been another forum

Signore Fancy Pants

cdeb wrote: »

Qualified for two World Cups and two Euros, getting out of the groups three times in those four tournaments.

Cheers, so we qualified for 4 major tournaments. What is the closest we have got to getting us a trophy of some sort? Was it luck that got us there or are we just capable of getting to a certain level before we are found out?

cdeb wrote: »

Won two European underage Championships and reached a World Cup semi-final at U20 level.

That's encouraging but why has that not translated to the senior ROI team? Have those who played U-20 not continued on? Or are we "just good enough, without being good enough"?

cdeb wrote: »

Got three teams to the EL groups in the past decade. Dundalk - managed by Stephen Kenny - were a whisker away from the CL groups in 2016.

That's decent stuff and we won't be doing it for a while to come.

Whats holding us back, finances, talent, management?

ted1

Omackeral wrote: »

Why. What's in it for them? Cardiff and Swansea wouldn't want to leave one of the best leagues in Europe to play against Bray Wanderers in the Carlisle Grounds. Are you basically just saying stuff for the craic?

They wouldn’t be playing against Bray Wanderers..... they’d be playing Dublin, Ulster, Leinster , Munster or Connacht in a decent stadium.
But ignoring those 2 that play in a foreign league. how are the other Welsh clubs doing in the Cymru Premier?

dan1895

ted1 wrote: »

They wouldn’t be playing against Bray Wanderers..... they’d be playing Dublin, Ulster, Leinster , Munster or Connacht in a decent stadium.
But ignoring those 2 that play in a foreign league. how are the other Welsh clubs doing in the Cymru Premier?

What stadiums are these?

cdeb

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Cheers, so we qualified for 4 major tournaments. What is the closest we have got to getting us a trophy of some sort? Was it luck that got us there or are we just capable of getting to a certain level before we are found out?

Probably the 2002 World Cup. We knocked out Holland - played them off the park in Amsterdam - and they had reached the semis of the Euros two months before. We drew in Portugal the following month - they were the other losing Euro semi-finalists. We played them four times overall and didn't lose once to them. Rode our luck a bit, but that's football. Drew with Germany in the World Cup groups - only team to score against them until the final. Then lost to Spain on penalties in the last 16.

It's unlikely we'll win the World Cup ever, but that was a bloody good team playing the best football we've ever played, and deserves to be better remembered than it is. (The Roy Keane nonsense probably stands against it) Since then, as players haven't been coming through, it's been a long and steady decline.

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

That's encouraging but why has that not translated to the senior ROI team? Have those who played U-20 not continued on? Or are we "just good enough, without being good enough"?

It did. Underage teams never come through en masse - they can't, because underage is one year group and senior is 20 year groups. But from those teams we got Robbie Keane, Damien Duff, John O'Shea and Richie Dunne - that was the spine of our team for 15 years and got us to the 2002 World Cup (O'Shea wasn't in the squad yet) and the two Euros. Then some other players such as Liam Miller, Gary Doherty, Colin Healy, etc, also came through and were squad players.

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Whats holding us back, finances, talent, management?

Read the Miguel Delaney article I linked earlier. It's depressing and enlightening at the same time and will answer your question better than I can.

ted1

dan1895 wrote: »

What stadiums are these?

Are you always so negatives looking for obstacles.

They could be any stadium. Just need to look at existing Soccer stadiums or potential use of rugby/ GAA stadiums. We’ve plenty of good stadiums.

Fred Cryton

downcow wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/ireland-too-small-for-two-soccer-teams-and-should-be-all-island-side-ff-senator-1.4522867

Is this the ‘go to position’ every time the ROI football team have a particularly bad run? I can’t really decide whether it is, offensive, laughable, or just plain sad.

From my perspective, the most absurd quote I have heard in a long time is in this article.

Seanad leader Regina Doherty agreed that “it is something we should be talking about”. She told Senators it “probably should be less contentious” than some of the other topics in the Government’s Shared Island initiative

Although this quote in the same article, gives it a very close run.
Mr Gallagher said “the reality is that for two small nations like Northern Ireland and the Republic to have two soccer teams on a small island, one island and expect them to compete at international level is simply not on anymore”

I have to disagree strongly with Regina Doherty. As a Unionist, but more importantly a Northern Ireland football supporter, her suggestion that this may be ‘less contentious’ is absurd. I wonder with Regina Doherty find it fairly uncontentious if England set about creating a British isles team to replace the five nations teams.

And I am genuinely interested, is it embarrassing as a ROI football fan when your politicians ask to get joining with another nation every time your team plays crap?

I am also interested is there any other teams in the world that is made up of two nations?

This reminds me a little of when ROI pled to have an additional (33rd) place created at the World Cup because Henri had scored by handling the ball and knocking ROI out. Your team is still affectionately known by Northern Ireland supporters to this day as ‘Team 33’

While you are correct that it would be contentious to create a UI soccer team, the reasons for that are little darker than you let on. NI soccer has for generations been a safe place for sectarian bigotry.



So, please, lets not get on your high horse if you wouldn't mind.



And yes i will fully admit the ROI soccer team are beyond embarrassing at this stage. A UI team would be totally dominated by NI players at the mo.

L1011

ted1 wrote: »

They wouldn’t be playing against Bray Wanderers..... they’d be playing Dublin, Ulster, Leinster , Munster or Connacht in a decent stadium.
But ignoring those 2 that play in a foreign league. how are the other Welsh clubs doing in the Cymru Premier?

There's more than two Welsh teams in the English system

Cardiff
Swansea
Wrexham
Newport
Merthy Tydfil

There's also a few English border teams in lower Welsh divisions; and arguably TNS are English too

dan1895

ted1 wrote: »

Are you always so negatives looking for obstacles.

They could be any stadium. Just need to look at existing Soccer stadiums or potential use of rugby/ GAA stadiums. We’ve plenty of good stadiums.

No we don't have plenty of good stadiums.

I'm not being negative, these are the realistic barriers to this kind of pie in the sky thinking.

L1011

Omackeral wrote: »

Imagine they made a team called Dublin City. And it played in the Dublin GAA colours and all. And they gave them a catchy nickname like ''The Vikings'' or something like that. Of course people would support them.

I deeply worry that many people on this thread will think you're being serious with this as a new suggestion.

Omackeral

ted1 wrote: »

Are you always so negatives looking for obstacles.

They could be any stadium. Just need to look at existing Soccer stadiums or potential use of rugby/ GAA stadiums. We’ve plenty of good stadiums.

You're off the head pal! Who do you think would support Leinster, for example? As in, go week in and week out to see this team. Are they based in Dublin, where there's already 6 senior LOI teams?

downcow

downcow wrote: »

Haha. I enjoyed this. But probably not the reality. 90% of current ni fans would either stop supporting international football or transfer their allegiance to another nation they feel warm towards

If that’s true what exactly is in it for the Northern Ireland supporter? Or the existing IFA structure?

begbysback

riffmongous wrote: »

Yeah right, that's the only reason, not like we were beating f'ing Gibraltar by 1-0 and 2-0 a few years ago :rolleyes:

Ohh my dear man, the way things are going with the current setup we will be longing for such glory days.

Zaph

ted1 wrote: »

Are you always so negatives looking for obstacles.

They could be any stadium. Just need to look at existing Soccer stadiums or potential use of rugby/ GAA stadiums. We’ve plenty of good stadiums.

Other than for the occasional one-off match, why would the IRFU or GAA willingly hand over their stadiums to a competing sport? And apart from the fact that their seasons overlap so there would be multiple demands for them at the same time, there are different requirements for the pitches in each, e.g. soccer needs much shorter grass than rugby. So saying we've plenty of good stadiums doesn't address soccer's needs. You might as well just say we have plenty of good golf courses, sure don't they have grass on them?

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

The British and Irish Lions team has been a relative success in the rugby, so the idea isn't inherently as ridiculous as you suggest, at least for exhibition tour type of events. With the soccer, English standards are probably prohibitively higher than that of the other nations to have anything but token representation, so it wouldn't work.

Tis the beauty of sport.....I can absolutely despise Owen Farrell and his incredibly punchable face when he lines up for England, and support him when he's playing for the Lions against South Africa (though it doesn't do much for the punchable face factor).....I can think Johnny Sexton is a great lad when he lines up for Ireland, but hate him when he's playing for Leinster.

That being said, as someone from the North who has felt completely alienated and unable to support the NI team for my entire lifetime, I still wouldn't support the amalgamation of the two soccer teams (at least not pre-Unification). I don't believe the two together would be competitive just because we are with the rugby. I don't see any tangible benefit in it, and all I can see happening is that genuine NI fans would be left without a team; regardless of how it is presented, a significant cohort would see an all island team as just the Irish team and be about as likely to support it as I am with the NI team.

I do think your estimation of NI's, 'success' is overblown though. If I'm not mistaken, FIFA still have them ranked below ROI (45th vs 42nd, so same ballpark) One bad result for your rivals (or a string of absolutely tedious horrible football if we're being frank) doesn't make NI world beaters, no matter how many songs about Will Grigg go viral.

Referencing the British Lions is very different. The key difference is that the British Lions is a true team and does not affect the continuation of any of the national teams

I am not sure Fionn if you just follow me around to misquote me. Where did I overblown the success of the Northern Ireland team??

dan1895

dan1895 wrote: »

Good man. What happens when UEFA don't allow us to have a national team because we don't have a full time league with promotion and relegation?

Yeh the national teams represent leagues even if they source their players outside the league.

ted1

dan1895 wrote: »

What stadiums are these?

Are you always so negatives looking for obstacles.

They could be any stadium. Just need to look at existing Soccer stadiums or potential use of rugby/ GAA stadiums. We’ve plenty of good stadiums.

downcow

Fred Cryton wrote: »

While you are correct that it would be contentious to create a UI soccer team, the reasons for that are little darker than you let on. NI soccer has for generations been a safe place for sectarian bigotry.



So, please, lets not get on your high horse if you wouldn't mind.



And yes i will fully admit the ROI soccer team are beyond embarrassing at this stage. A UI team would be totally dominated by NI players at the mo.

What do you mean about me getting on my high horse?
Where did I say anything about the bigotry of the ROI team?
You are just making stuff up for effect
NI and ROI could do without an element of their sectarian bigoted fan base. There is no question that the Northern Ireland fans are working very hard to root out that small element. I don't see any evidence that the ROI fans are doing the same

dan1895

ted1 wrote: »

Are you always so negatives looking for obstacles.

They could be any stadium. Just need to look at existing Soccer stadiums or potential use of rugby/ GAA stadiums. We’ve plenty of good stadiums.

Name them so.

downcow

Deleted User wrote: »

If that’s true what exactly is in it for the Northern Ireland supporter? Or the existing IFA structure?

I am not sure what you are asking?

downcow

downcow wrote: »

I am not sure what you are asking?

Easy enough to understand. If 90% of Northern Ireland supporters won’t support this all Ireland team why would the IFA agree to it? This is all pie on the sky.

KungPao

There’d be some thinking to do when the FAI finally folds. What replaces them? May as well ‘do a rugger’ and join our Orange friends and pretend we are a country.

IRFU in Dublin, IFA in Belfast. Fair enough. Alternate between Windsor and Lansdowne for the home matches.

T’would be a queer sight though, the Irish flag and Union Jack being waved in the crowd and the empty rows of seats and PSNI/Garda lines to keep the peace.

Ah sure it’d bring a tear to the eye, all the lads belting out Ireland’s Call with patriotic gusto.

astrofool

On the other hand, the FAI debts are probably about equal to the Westminster subvention to NI, so at least it would be an equal partnership :pac:

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

Referencing the British Lions is very different. The key difference is that the British Lions is a true team and does not affect the continuation of any of the national teams

I am not sure Fionn if you just follow me around to misquote me. Where did I overblown the success of the Northern Ireland team??

You'll notice I quite clearly said I didn't support the amalgamation of the two teams. I used the British and Irish Lions as an example to demonstrate that the concept of a team representing all the nations of these islands isn't as ridiculous as you were suggesting, and in fact does exist in another sport. Quite what you mean by a, 'true team' I think you'll have to explain further.

As for, 'following you around'... ah cop on! We have discussed the NI team on previous threads though. You seem to think the RoI team is in horrendous shape and the NI team looking much better; I was just pointing out that despite RoI being in an awful slump recently and NI enjoying a period of success relative to their historic performances, NI are still currently ranked several places below the horrendous failure that is RoI soccer!

begbysback

Can we not merge with the English team?

KungPao

begbysback wrote: »

Can we not merge with the English team?

James McClean approves.

begbysback

KungPao wrote: »

James McClean approves.

Tbf jamesey boy is at the end of his career, and sure we’re practically half English anyways

mehico

George Best was famously in favour of one Ireland team competing internationally because it was common sense that this team would have a larger pool of players to pick from.

walshb

OP, your post seems full of glee at Ireland’s recent poor form..

I think you’re right, a joining of the two would be a step too far for some!

begbysback

walshb wrote: »

OP, your post seems full of glee at Ireland’s recent poor form..

I think you’re right, a joining of the two would be a step too far for some!

I guess it’s partially to do with the notion that league of Ireland players and managers would be successful if they moved up the grade. I think with the current managers shortcomings realised, and with Brian kerrs terrible record it has solidly been prove that the gulf in class is enormous, and those who pretty much stated this before have been vindicated.

Nothing wrong with a victory lap here

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

another nation ... two nations

The North isn't a nation.

mehico

begbysback wrote: »

I guess it’s partially to do with the notion that league of Ireland players and managers would be successful if they moved up the grade. I think with the current managers shortcomings realised, and with Brian kerrs terrible record it has solidly been prove that the gulf in class is enormous, and those who pretty much stated this before have been vindicated.

Nothing wrong with a victory lap here

Was Brian Kerr's record terrible?