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PV Feed In Tariff

«134567…69

Comments

  • #2
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Its an obligation from next year under an EU directive, the rate is crap

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • #3
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,710 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    That article is over a year old :p

    The only equitable way to increase the uptake of micro renewables substantially is with a decent FIT. Hope it will come soon. And cancel all the PV subsidies. Disaster of a system that has only been good to the SEAI installers. Bad for the householders and even worse value for money for the tax payers.

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  • #4
    freddyuk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    Sorry I was looking at the publish date of the Journal didn't notice the 2019 date:mad:


    Stand easy.....


  • #5
    fluffykre
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭fluffykre


    HI folks,

    I got Solar PV installed last year and shopping around for a new energy deal and came across Energies grid tarrif.

    Its called their grid tariff and requires solar and a smart battery. It appears you need to use their proprietor battery Moixa.

    Smart Moixa Battery only: €6,000 for 2kWp 4.8kWh (€600 grant available).

    Energia will pay you for excess electricity you return back to the grid at a rate of €0.074 (that’s 7.4c) per kWh which is paid out as a credit on your bill every January and July.

    I wonder if this will include a new meter or if the energy export is monitored by the smart battery system.

    As you have to buy their battery and they only pay you for exports January and July it does not sound very good. However great to see more options.

    Anyone else aware of this or on this tariff?

    energia.ie/plans-and-switching-info/grid


  • #6
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,284 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Just looked at their prices..with a 2kwp system and a 4kwh battery you won't be exporting much either!

    14k! For a 2kwp and a battery!!


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  • #7
    mp3guy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭mp3guy


    I wonder is the 7.4c/kWh rate indicative of what the general unwashed should expect for FIT?


  • #8
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,710 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    LOL, yeah the pricing in the OP are misleading. That €6k is just for the battery, for 4.8kWh, or €1250 per kWh. My target price would be more like €100 per kWh :p

    I wonder did Energia team up with a certain active company with an 8 in their name? :p :pac: :D

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  • #9
    MAULBROOK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭MAULBROOK


    fluffykre wrote: »
    HI folks,

    I got Solar PV installed last year and shopping around for a new energy deal and came across Energies grid tarrif.

    Its called their grid tariff and requires solar and a smart battery. It appears you need to use their proprietor battery Moixa.

    Smart Moixa Battery only: €6,000 for 2kWp 4.8kWh (€600 grant available).

    Energia will pay you for excess electricity you return back to the grid at a rate of €0.074 (that’s 7.4c) per kWh which is paid out as a credit on your bill every January and July.

    I wonder if this will include a new meter or if the energy export is monitored by the smart battery system.

    As you have to buy their battery and they only pay you for exports January and July it does not sound very good. However great to see more options.

    Anyone else aware of this or on this tariff?

    energia.ie/plans-and-switching-info/grid


    6k for the battery, daylight fecken robbery.
    you could get a very sizable solar system and a decent size battery for that.

    The FIT rate is ok but its a poor deal overall.


  • #10
    eamon_l
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭eamon_l


    Public Consultation on a Micro-generation Support Scheme in Ireland 2021 was open until 18/02/2021. Change is on the way!!

    file:///C:/Users/G26125D/Downloads/118534_ac826470-1d60-41a6-9e06-91cfb3a9709e.pdf


  • #11
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    unkel wrote: »
    That article is over a year old :p

    The only equitable way to increase the uptake of micro renewables substantially is with a decent FIT. Hope it will come soon. And cancel all the PV subsidies. Disaster of a system that has only been good to the SEAI installers. Bad for the householders and even worse value for money for the tax payers.

    FIT will only drive up the price of panels so joe soap gets it up the khyber again, which are already 30% up due to Brexit if coming through the UK

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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  • #12
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,710 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Calahonda52 wrote: »
    FIT will only drive up the price of panels

    No it won't. What gave you that idea?

    There are a few strongly competing wholesale suppliers in Ireland that directly import containers full of panels (about 800 per container last time I looked) directly from China. If anything, FIT with higher demand for panels and a possible higher buying discount, might make them cheaper.

    These wholesalers also compete indirectely with even bigger wholesalers from continental EU. If the Irish based ones raise their prices too much, it will become cheaper to import them (paying hefty shipping charges). They know this so they won't.

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  • #13
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    eamon_l wrote: »
    Public Consultation on a Micro-generation Support Scheme in Ireland 2021 was open until 18/02/2021. Change is on the way!!

    file:///C:/Users/G26125D/Downloads/118534_ac826470-1d60-41a6-9e06-91cfb3a9709e.pdf

    Discussed in detail here
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058149744

    Roll on 1 July.
    Calahonda52 wrote: »
    FIT will only drive up the price of panels so joe soap gets it up the khyber again, which are already 30% up due to Brexit if coming through the UK

    I cant see it increasing the cost of panels. The returns you will get from FiT will be very modest but, of course, there will be cowboys who will dress it up as a massive saving and use it to mis-sell. Buyer beware.


  • #14
    niallers1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 800 ✭✭✭niallers1


    Looks like it will be linked to the B.E.R. of the house and possibly up to 30% of what you produce.

    Divil will be in the detail....


  • #15
    Boardnashea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 864 ✭✭✭Boardnashea


    What FIT rates are we expecting? Will it be different for existing and new suppliers? I'm only going to be giving back a tiny amount hopefully but it would be great to get a reasonable value for what does go back.


  • #16
    Alkers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,868 ✭✭✭Alkers


    So if you're going for a big array (and likely to have a large excess) it might be more worthwhile holding off to avail of the larger fit for as many years as you can. If you're going for a smaller array now and aiming to use as much of what you generate as you can, the current grant may be best?


  • #17
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,192 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Bird in the hand, I’d grab whatever grant is available now, the current grants are very generous.
    FIT could well be pittance


  • #18
    Boardnashea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 864 ✭✭✭Boardnashea


    Will each provider decide their own buy in rates? Or will it be an across the board rate for all?


  • #19
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Boardnashea wrote: »
    Will each provider decide their own buy in rates? Or will it be an across the board rate for all?

    The proposal was to have a minimum that the provider had to give you. They can go up if they want to to entice you in, but they cant go down.


  • #20
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,256 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Any newselberries on how much it's going to be? 4c? 0.4c?


  • #21
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,192 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    KCross wrote: »
    The proposal was to have a minimum that the provider had to give you. They can go up if they want to to entice you in, but they cant go down.
    That’s what she said
    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    Any newselberries on how much it's going to be? 4c? 0.4c?
    With ESB and their grubby mitts I suggest a paltry 4c, I submitted a suggestion of simple net metering as an incentive, when this was brought in in other countries some were paid for every unit they produced regardless of whether it went to the grid or not, now that’s proper incentives


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  • #22
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,710 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    slave1 wrote: »
    when this was brought in in other countries some were paid for every unit they produced regardless of whether it went to the grid or not, now that’s proper incentives

    That's why those countries are years ahead of Ireland in terms of domestic micro renewable generation

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  • #23
    jkforde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,009 ✭✭✭jkforde


    slave1 wrote: »
    ... I submitted a suggestion of simple net metering as an incentive, when this was brought in in other countries some were paid for every unit they produced regardless of whether it went to the grid or not, now that’s proper incentives

    Only in Ireland would the previous incumbent have a low-usage policy for crying out loud, talk about disincetivising microgeneration! conservative, myopic senior mgnt in our utilities and government depts need to be incentivsed to retire!!

    🌦️ 6.7kwp, 45°, SSW, mid-Galway 🌦️

    "Since I no longer expect anything from mankind except madness, meanness, and mendacity; egotism, cowardice, and self-delusion, I have stopped being a misanthrope." Irving Layton



  • #24
    Northumberland
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Northumberland


    Government says export payments will start in July 2021, but it will be April already next week, and so far everyone I have contacted to ask for information about the export payments sends me somewhere else. I have written to a couple of electricity suppliers to ask them what they know - their answer is that the payments will all be handled by ESB! I wrote to the CRU (they had a little piece on export payments on their website), helpfully, their advice was " I suggest contacting the Department of Environment, Climate and Communications for further information on the timeline for the introduction of a support scheme." I contacted ESB to check that, being a micro-generator, I was on their priority list for installation of a 'smart meter', they said I was, and they would contact me 3 months before installation was planned, and that 'would probably be before the end of this year'!

    So, the export payment scheme seems to be going no-where fast. I am surprised that the electricity companies that bathe themselve in green in all of their advertising, such as SSE Airtricity and Energia are saying absolutely NOTHING - not even 'watch this space' or 'we are in dicrect contact with XYZ on the export payment scheme and can assure our customers that we will be at the front offering new tarriffs as soon as Government is clear'


  • #25
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,284 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Well the proposal is for them to start in July.. nothing is announced yet.

    We have yet to hear any results from the consultation, and until then nobody knows anything. Or if they do they can't tell you.. as it's not announced.


  • #26
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,192 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Did you really expect anything else? It’s a case of wait until July and see the pricing and then decision time...


  • #27
    Northumberland
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Northumberland


    meanwhile my one year contract for electricity supply with SSE expires May 4th, and all of the good deals around will want me to sign on for another entire year. I might do that only to find I have selected a company which then publishes a lousy export tariff - or worse still - no export tariff at all in July 2021.

    By the way, I consume a lot of grid power at night, I have a heat-pump for the house and an all electric car. I scanned the providers deals yesterday and Energia looked good, they have an 'electric car special' with a very low night rate, the lowest I have seen, but there fixed charges look on the high side.


  • #28
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,284 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Northumberland wrote: »
    meanwhile my one year contract for electricity supply with SSE expires May 4th, and all of the good deals around will want me to sign on for another entire year. I might do that only to find I have selected a company which then publishes a lousy export tariff - or worse still - no export tariff at all in July 2021.

    By the way, I consume a lot of grid power at night, I have a heat-pump for the house and an all electric car. I scanned the providers deals yesterday and Energia looked good, they have an 'electric car special' with a very low night rate, the lowest I have seen, but there fixed charges look on the high side.

    I'd say unless you already have a smart meter, which most of us don't as we have the day/night meter.

    Fixed charges are high but that comes with the territory, do the sums and see if the lower unit rates make up for the higher standing charge.

    But usually if you have any sort of high useage it makes up for it


  • #29
    Northumberland
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Northumberland


    Yes, you are probably right. But since you mention it, what exactly is a 'Smart Meter'??? I applied to ESB for a day/night tariff about 2 years ago, and they came fairly promptly and fitted a new electronic meter with LCD screen and a big blue button, that you can push once to get date, again to get time, then total consumtion, day consumption, night consumption etc etc. Is that a smart meter? It certainly does not transmit meter readings to anyone automatically, our regular old meter reader trapses around to take a reading every now and again. But when you read the instructions for the meter, there is a combination of button pushes that should give a 'export' reading, but the screen just goes blank at that point, clearly not enabled. The instructions for the meter indicate that 'an authorised engineer' can simply 'zap' the thing with his IR beamer and enable the export function. I contacted ESB a while after the meter was installed to ask them if they could activate the 'export function' and they told me I would have to pay Euros 350 to have that done! So - is what I have a 'smart meter' or not?


  • #30
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Northumberland wrote: »
    So - is what I have a 'smart meter' or not?

    No

    You have a standard day/night meter.


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  • #31
    mun1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 931 ✭✭✭mun1


    I got an offer of a smart meter for my house but had to sign up to a new tariff .

    the day and night rate would be a bit higher and there would be a peak tariff with approx 25% penalty during 5-7pm .

    Also had a slightly lower standing charge.

    They Did the sums and might save approx €37 per year but could be more or less depending on my peak use.

    My useage during 5-7 is quite high especially during winter so I’m not going for it.


  • #32
    Northumberland
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Northumberland


    I wonder if that might have been Pinergy? I see they seem to have their own meters with special rates for specific times such as 5pm to 7pm. Could you PM me the name of the company that offered you the smart meter?


  • #33
    SD_DRACULA
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA


    Looks like needle in a haystack trying to find any real news on FIT but by reading these threads looks like what you'll get back with FIT won't be like for like, i.e. if you pay 13c/kw then they won't credit you 13c right?


  • #34
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,284 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    SD_DRACULA wrote: »
    Looks like needle in a haystack trying to find any real news on FIT but by reading these threads looks like what you'll get back with FIT won't be like for like, i.e. if you pay 13c/kw then they won't credit you 13c right?

    There has been no news since the consultation ended.

    But no it won't be like for like. Average wholesale will be the best estimate*

    *There is a proposal for a premium rate, subsidied, with caps and ber requirements


  • #35
    ec_pc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 449 ✭✭ec_pc


    Northumberland wrote: »
    So - is what I have a 'smart meter' or not?

    I got a day/night meter in December and was told it would be replaced with Smart Meter free of charge. I must follow up with ESB on this now as I do export to grid.


  • #36
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    ec_pc wrote: »
    I got a day/night meter in December and was told it would be replaced with Smart Meter free of charge. I must follow up with ESB on this now as I do export to grid.

    You can get a smart meter now but your provider may not yet support the day/night rate on it, so be careful before you pull the trigger on that.


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  • #37
    Northumberland
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Northumberland


    Yes, let me know please how you get on with that. I found them quite helpful, surprisingly perhaps, they accepted that they DID have a list of people wishing to be 'early adopters' because they had solar panels (which they did not do last time I called them), and, to my surprise, said I was already on their list. But what did not sound very hopeful was the statement that '3 months ahead of time' I will get a message from ESB saying when installation is planned. Lets see now, payments supposed to start in July, so June, May, April - so we should expect messages next week - or at least next month!. But of course, they say they are actually doing no installation at all at the moment because of Covid. (what the risk is to a an engineer working alone outside of a house is beyond me, but there we are).


  • #38
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    SD_DRACULA wrote: »
    Looks like needle in a haystack trying to find any real news on FIT but by reading these threads looks like what you'll get back with FIT won't be like for like, i.e. if you pay 13c/kw then they won't credit you 13c right?

    It will be more like 5-7c than 13c I'd say.... but no one knows yet.

    Its to go live in July so we'll know soon enough.


  • #39
    Northumberland
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Northumberland


    as per my other post below, how exactly will it 'go live in July' when there are very few smart meters around, and they have not even started installing them again. When I asked my own electricity company (SSE Airtricity), who were phoning me to bug me to renew my contract, when they would announce what the export payment would be, the guy said he would find out, then called me back, and said ' we will not be dealing with that - it will all be handled by ESB, ask them!)

    -


  • #40
    reklamos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭reklamos


    I got my smartmeter last summer. My current provider does not have any smart plans. Electricireland and bodgais started offering them recently but financially they do not make much sense. I do not export a lot as I have battery and diverter but once/if FIT becomes available I will as long as it make sense. As others I could not find any info on the rates but again I do not expect much. The best we can hope to get is wholesale price but even then I would not hold my breath. In some EU countries micro producers are using national grid as the storage for exports and paying a fee for that. So users can accumulate whatever they export and then pull it back when needed. I think the rate is ~4c per kw for storage. This looks a pretty good option to me.


  • #41
    Northumberland
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Northumberland


    4c for storage, maybe a reasonable fee, particularly if you were to 'draw down' on that stored energy between 5pm and 7pm and signed up to one of those variable rate tariffs that have very high rates for use at that time.

    But I am about to change my provider and sign up to one that offers an 'Electric Car Owner deal', I guess I am not supposed to give the name of the company, but they are offering a night rate of just 4.78 cents, inc. VAT. That rate is probably so low that it becomes economic to charge my (8kWH) of battery storage overnight, especially if not much sun is predicted the next da, even taking account of the depreciation that this will cause to the useful life of the battery.


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  • #42
    reklamos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭reklamos


    Northumberland wrote: »
    4c for storage, maybe a reasonable fee, particularly if you were to 'draw down' on that stored energy between 5pm and 7pm and signed up to one of those variable rate tariffs that have very high rates for use at that time.

    But I am about to change my provider and sign up to one that offers an 'Electric Car Owner deal', I guess I am not supposed to give the name of the company, but they are offering a night rate of just 4.78 cents, inc. VAT. That rate is probably so low that it becomes economic to charge my (8kWH) of battery storage overnight, especially if not much sun is predicted the next da, even taking account of the depreciation that this will cause to the useful life of the battery.
    This is pretty good deal. Do they actually check if you own EV?


  • #43
    jkforde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,009 ✭✭✭jkforde


    KCross wrote: »
    You can get a smart meter now..

    nope, I wish. I rang ESBN, talked to a lovely lady. she informed me that they are not installing now, that they don't know when they'll be starting again, that the early adopter list is really meaningless and they're just following an old regional plan (does a plan really exist?!), and a submitted NC6 form just alerts crews that the property has an active PV system, it does not prioritise your property.
    disappointing (maddening really) so does anyone personally know anyone in ESB\N who actually knows the plan? just shows, once a semi-state always a semi-state!

    🌦️ 6.7kwp, 45°, SSW, mid-Galway 🌦️

    "Since I no longer expect anything from mankind except madness, meanness, and mendacity; egotism, cowardice, and self-delusion, I have stopped being a misanthrope." Irving Layton



  • #44
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,653 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Northumberland wrote: »
    as per my other post below, how exactly will it 'go live in July' when there are very few smart meters around, and they have not even started installing them again. When I asked my own electricity company (SSE Airtricity), who were phoning me to bug me to renew my contract, when they would announce what the export payment would be, the guy said he would find out, then called me back, and said ' we will not be dealing with that - it will all be handled by ESB, ask them!)

    -

    The smart meters are live and posting back nightly. Data is available for viewing

    Below is my profile for yesterday


  • #45
    Northumberland
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Northumberland


    reklamos wrote: »
    This is pretty good deal. Do they actually check if you own EV?
    Not as far as I can see from their Web sign up page, but I will not know until I try, and I dont want to try for another 4 weeks, because I dont want to break my contract early with my present provider (danger of course that they will change their offers by then!).


  • #46
    Northumberland
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Northumberland


    jkforde wrote: »
    nope, I wish. I rang ESBN, talked to a lovely lady. she informed me that they are not installing now, that they don't know when they'll be starting again, that the early adopter list is really meaningless and they're just following an old regional plan (does a plan really exist?!), and a submitted NC6 form just alerts crews that the property has an active PV system, it does not prioritise your property.
    disappointing (maddening really) so does anyone personally know anyone in ESB\N who actually knows the plan? just shows, once a semi-state always a semi-state!
    I know someone who got a smart meter fitted just 2 weeks ago, in spite of them telling me, like you, that they are not fitting meters. This guys mother had a meter that had broken completely in some way, so ESB were called, came, and said they would replace it with a smart meter (even though she had not specifically requested one) but the son was keen, so appraoched the 'crew' and said fit one for me as well, and a couple of weeks later, they came back and did just that. So the message seems to be - 'encourage your old meter to have some sort of 'accident' - perhaps a slate will be blown off the roof on to it' then they will come and sort it out!


  • #47
    jkforde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,009 ✭✭✭jkforde


    Northumberland wrote: »
    I know someone who got a smart meter fitted just 2 weeks ago, in spite of them telling me, like you, that they are not fitting meters. This guys mother had a meter that had broken completely in some way, so ESB were called, came, and said they would replace it with a smart meter (even though she had not specifically requested one) but the son was keen, so appraoched the 'crew' and said fit one for me as well, and a couple of weeks later, they came back and did just that. So the message seems to be - 'encourage your old meter to have some sort of 'accident' - perhaps a slate will be blown off the roof on to it' then they will come and sort it out!

    haha, doesn't surprise me. and yeah, I've asked for a D\N meter so hoping that once they come out that they'll just swap it with a smart one! :)

    🌦️ 6.7kwp, 45°, SSW, mid-Galway 🌦️

    "Since I no longer expect anything from mankind except madness, meanness, and mendacity; egotism, cowardice, and self-delusion, I have stopped being a misanthrope." Irving Layton



  • #48
    spose
    Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭spose


    ted1 wrote: »
    The smart meters are live and posting back nightly. Data is available for viewing

    Below is my profile for yesterday

    Is this something specific to electric Ireland or where else could I see it? My meter was changed out in June


  • #49
    idc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 580 ✭✭✭idc


    jkforde wrote: »
    haha, doesn't surprise me. and yeah, I've asked for a D\N meter so hoping that once they come out that they'll just swap it with a smart one! :)


    I only got my day/night meter in February, I would of asked for smart one but at the time smart meters were dumb and only on 24h tarif. I was also told under covid rules no meter changes of any kind happening and then randomly 3-4 weeks later an ESB van appears to do change over


  • #50
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    jkforde wrote: »
    a submitted NC6 form just alerts crews that the property has an active PV system, it does not prioritise your property.

    KN went on a spree of installing smart meters in my area (D18) a few months ago. As far as I could see, the only house they skipped was mine (with PV and a DN meter).


  • #51
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,653 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    spose wrote: »
    Is this something specific to electric Ireland or where else could I see it? My meter was changed out in June

    Check your provider, esbN collect the data and pass it it to the provider

    I changed over to a smart plan. I now get billed monthly and can see how much it’ll be as it accumulates daily


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