PV Feed In Tariff

AndyBoBandy

My intention is to export as little as possible...

EV will be plugged in every day.. even thinking of buying a mini electric hob for cooking in summer time when even the car is full and I've nowhere left to put it!!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Russell-Hobbs-Plate-Mini-15199/dp/B002KGP60G/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=mini+electric+hob&qid=1637765988&s=kitchen&sr=1-4

buzz11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118216404#Comment_118216404

Yes definitely expecting more -- its got to make people sit up and take notice (not just the early adopters) but here I am talking common sense where the decision will be taken by politicians 🙄

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118216612#Comment_118216612

Which should be the complete opposite of what FIT should set out (early days anyway).

There should be enough incentive to export that people actually want to do it and drives solar installs.

unkel

Yep agreed with you there Cork_exile. A net metering solution is the best. As they have in many countries and in the likes of California. It would incentivise people to produce more electricity than they consume. Giving zero yearly electricity costs.

slave1

Ah shure, stop making sense there lads

Bobeagleburger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118216612#Comment_118216612

The reality is you will give back plenty during the summer. I think our systems are similar size. I averaged about 25 kWh May - July, hitting 30 kWh many times, and hitting 40 kWh a few times.

The good times are around the corner!

Busman Paddy Lasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118216612#Comment_118216612

Did somebody say 2800W kiddies pool heater?

https://www.campingworld.co.uk/Mobile/en/Bestway-Pool-Heater/m-m-18950.aspx?PartnerID=6016&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpK-I4pa49AIVqo9oCR3flg9REAQYASABEgLRkPD_BwE&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=Ireland

That would have been class last July.............

unkel

There's only one lucrative way to use up your excess PV production yourself: crypto mining!

MAULBROOK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118230974#Comment_118230974

Feck off I was looking a them last night. I need something for the summer pool.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118231918#Comment_118231918

Now just get a GPU for anything near recommended retail price

MAULBROOK

If you sold your house and it had 6kw worth of panels, would the new owner get the low FIT or high FIT. Or would they get feck all.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118233452#Comment_118233452

Story of my life 😂

But seriously, even at market prices (sometimes double RRP or more), GPU mining is still very profitable.

irishchris

Am I seriously reading this correctly! Fit payments may now start in June next year! If so then the government and the cru are completely taking the pi*s! What happened to Eamonn Ryan promising on the news only two weeks ago that it will 100% start from January and this following on from eu guidelines that it should be arranged from last July.

Also get the feeling from the cru wording that you will have to enter a specific plan with your supplier which you then don't get your cheap night time rates so essentially cancels out any small fit. Only in Ireland would a regulator allow this to happen!

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/who-is-eligible-to-sell-surplus-electricity-back-to-the-grid/

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118305963#Comment_118305963

Not surprised one bit,

Smart meter (spell check was a bit off on the article, its metre there...) if eligible.

If not eligible, an estimation is used. - I wonder does having a day/night count as not eligible :P

I think the first payments is in june ish... although you'll not be exporting much until may/june anyway.

irishchris

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118306019#Comment_118306019

I'd assume they have to allow you to no matter what meter until they change it but says you have to accept a smart meter if they plan an install at your house or if refused no fit. Fit can be as low as 0c so not exactly enticing. But the loophole get out for the suppliers is the ability to only pay out if you accept a feed in plan which they will I would think have higher day/night rates

Evd-Burner

I plan on installing roughly 5KW diy on the shed, then in another few years an additional 6KW on the south facing roof.

I will have 2 electric cars soon, I would rather get a decent sized battery and an eddi than divert anything to this absolute pointless scheme where I bet the overall increase in tariffs for day/night will massively negatively impact me!

Ireland does not support going green!

slave1

It's been pretty much agreed on here for a long time that FIT will be sh1t and of zero benefit, that's my opinion anyhow

unkel

Yeah. Batteries FTW 😁

More batteries for me so.

v10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118306349#Comment_118306349

Well the benefit might be minimal but surely it's better than getting nothing for your excess? My 4.4KWp system even with battery (installed mid June) has exported over 500kWh to date (6 months) .. surely if I'm getting anything for this it's better for me ?

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118306877#Comment_118306877

The problem is though if you are getting anything from FIT, I’d hazard a guess the ‘smart rate’ you’d need to be on with a smart meter installed would leave you worse off….

FIT might earn you €50 a year, but you might be paying €100 more a year with a smart meter rate.

bullit_dodger

Bray on the Dart lads......meet you out there.

unkel

I'm self consuming 100% except for a handful of exceptionally sunny blue sky days in summer (and that's without a water diverter or charging the car - purely my high consumption and use of the 10kWh battery)

The grid of course is the best battery, but not if we're not really paid for it. If the government were really serious about giving solar a massive kickstart, they would force net metering onto the utility companies. See what that did in California / Germany / Netherlands. Many, many houses / businesses are covered in PV now.

AndyBoBandy

A nice way to do it would be to measure the amount of excess you export over a season, which you can then offset against electricity you import in the off season, at perhaps a reduced rate or something (allowing for higher cost of generation in winter).

so let’s say next summer I export 500kWh….. I should then be able to get that 500kWh back over the winter at say half price or something… it would encourage folks to install bigger systems, knowing that the grid is their battery and whatever excess they generate, they get it back somewhat when they actually need it…

unkel

Net metering actually means you get the units back at zero cost

So if you have a medium size install of say 4kwp, producing 4MWh per year and you use 4MWh per year, your total electricity bill for the year would be zero. No standing charges either. That's the way to do it. Money for nothing and electricity for free 😂

The way it works in California.

bullit_dodger

In fact it was so successful in California....they are thinking of stopping additional solar installations. Hawaii went that way. The grid couldn't handle the current going in the other direction!!

California’s Grid Capacity Could Undermine Its Clean Energy Drive And Access Among Poorer Households, Study Finds (forbes.com)

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118307097#Comment_118307097

Net metering was the submission I made during public consultation phase, they really are a joke those public consultations, say 60% of submissions were for net metering, still means nothing to them, they go with what they want to go with and ignore submissions and proven incentives from elsewhere.

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118307588#Comment_118307588

I see what you did there my brother in solar

buzz11

Is a smart meter mandatory in order to get the long awaited FIT? I have a day/night/export meter (elster A1140) so I'm wondering if I'll have to give this up - depending on the fit rates of course😉

I see there's mention of a new "simplified process" for applications above 6kW -- starting on 17th Dec.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/b1fbe-micro-generation/

slave1

Yes

MAULBROOK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118316934#Comment_118316934

Well thats a game changer

buzz11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317013#Comment_118317013

Well thats a bummer, I won't be giving up the day/night meter too easily.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317140#Comment_118317140

The mini-generators? yes it looks very interesting but doesn't mention whether its for both single & three phase or only three phase only.

Whats the situation in converting a residential connection from single to three phase? (can't find previous discussions on this cos the search feature on the new version of boards is for the birds)

If I remember correctly;

-theres an ESB networks charge to change (depending on each situation)

-theres a higher standing charge on bills

-any change to ordinary domestic appliances? or is it just changes at meter & fuse-board

reklamos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118307157#Comment_118307157

It is like that in some EU countries already but it is not without faults. You can export to grid and use grid as a battery. When you need, you take back from grid and pay 4-5c for storage. But that works best only if you are on single tariff. The other problem is that you have to use all stored electricity until certain date, I do not think this would be a problem in here unless you have massive PV. But the main problem is the grid itself, as it can handle so much. People in remote location or estates with multiple house with PVs are capped at how much they can export as the local grid just cannot handle the load without the upgrade. Now this is in country with housing estates that have 3phases coming to each house and average PV system is 10kW. I have yet to see a house in Ireland wired with 3 phases. I think if half of the house had decided to put PVs on start exporting we would have problems. I do not think anyone has thought about PV during Celtic tiger boom and there would big investments and upgrades required to accommodate this. Could this be the reason why FIT is taking so long.

Jonathan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118316934#Comment_118316934

No. They will give you a static amount based on the size of your inverter (as advised on your NC6) until you get a smart meter.

MAULBROOK

https://www.esbnetworks.ie/docs/default-source/publications/conditions-governing-connection-operation-mini-generation.pdf?sfvrsn=23e59cf6_5

of ya go lads

What's the advantage of keeping a day and night meter over the new smart meter?

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317435#Comment_118317435

Better rates.

smart rates would end up more expensive than standard day/night rates…

I haven’t looked in great detail, but the consensus is day/night rate is much better than any smart rates on offer.

buzz11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317365#Comment_118317365

Thats brilliant and answers some questions;

-Yes, single phase is included

-Fee ? There is an application fee of €795 plus VAT@23% (€977.85) to apply for a Mini-Generator connection.

-Is it worth it? that depends on the FIT figure

Note

Mini-generation = 6kVA to 17kVA

Micro-generation = upto 6kVA

Application fee of 977.85 ?????

Paper must be getting very expensive !!! Think I'll pass!

slave1

The usual compliance thingy, lets offer it but make it punitive to engage in.

Just forget about FIT, go solar to self consume and if you want to (either financially or otherwise) go for battery setup

reklamos

They completely missed the point didn't they? The goal is to attract public to install PVs and not to deter? We already have PVs installed and for us FIT would be nice to have, but for the ones that do not have it yet, a proper FIT may sway them to get PV installed and possibly go for bigger ones. But now who in the right mind is going to pay 1K first, to get back 50-100Euro a year from FIT? It will take 10-20 years just to break even.

SD_DRACULA

And the idiots are out protesting covid instead of things that matter...

Barrak

New to forum & PV...glad I looked before committing to anything. EV user, Zappi and hub in situ already. Have solar hot water heating already.

Quote from company in Cork: 7699e for 5kW hybrid Sonnen Battery

5649e for 12 Q Cell panels 4kWh & 500e or so quote installation bits and pieces

Then 3k off for SEAI grants.

I have a few questions:

1. value of Sonnen battery>other options...seem to be expensive+
2. Need for battery at all in first place if have EV (though not WFH so will mainly be dependant on night meter except weekends)
3. Am I being ripped off in quote...gut says yes!?

Thanks in advance.

DrPhilG

There's a 2022 quote thread, better off posting it there.

freddyuk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118319650#Comment_118319650

I do not think many private household installations are going to be "Mini" but rather "Micro" so the up front payment may be moot. Micro installations are less likely to overload the network which will require upgrades by ESB?

slave1

It's all a polite PFO attitude

TheWonderLlama

annnnnnnnnnd

here it is.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/bfe21-homes-farms-businesses-and-communities-to-benefit-as-minister-ryan-announces-the-micro-generation-support-scheme/

TheWonderLlama

• home-owners will be eligible to receive a Clean Export Guarantee (CEG) tariff, for any exported electricity, at a competitive market rate from their electricity supplier
• home-owners will continue to be able to apply to the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland (SEAI) for a grant towards the cost of installing equipment. In 2022, the grants will be at the same level per kW as the current SEAI solar PV grant scheme (maximum €2,400)

Non-domestic applicants:

• they will also be eligible to receive the Clean Export Guarantee (CEG) tariff, for any exported electricity, at a competitive market rate from their electricity supplier
• projects between 6kW and 50kW will receive a Clean Export Premium (CEP) tariff per kWh exported, for a period of 15 years, from their electricity supplier. The Clean Export Premium (CEP) will be €0.135/kWh in 2022, which is higher than the current average wholesale electricity price. Any difference between the CEP tariff and wholesale electricity prices will be supported by the Public Service Obligation (PSO) levy. Exported volumes of electricity eligible for the Clean Export Premium (CEP) tariff will be capped at 80% of generation capacity – to incentivise self-consumption
• it is expected that the Clean Export Premium (CEP) will commence in Q3 2022, when a payment mechanism is determined by the Commission for Regulation of Utilities (CRU)
• businesses, farms, community buildings such as schools, sports clubs, generating up to 5.9kW will be eligible for a Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland (SEAI) grant at the same levels as domestic customers. This specific grant will be available later in 2022

Community Participation:

Community enterprises including sports clubs and community halls will be eligible to participate, either as individual micro-generators or as community projects within the MSS.

Scheme Review:

Supports under the MSS will gradually reduce over time from 2024, based on reaching specific deployment milestones. It is expected that supports for new installations will begin to be phased out from 2028 (see the summary table in the Notes section).

cromelex

Who will be eligible for the Micro-generation Support Scheme (MSS)

• capital grants are available for domestic applicants. Capital grants are available for on-domestic applicants for installations up to 5.9kW
• homes built pre-2021 are eligible
• buildings will not have to meet a minimum BER (Building Energy Rating) standard, even after any new equipment is installed, to be included in the Micro-generation Support Scheme (MSS)
• the Clean Export Premium (CEP) is available to non-domestic applicants for installations from 6kW to 50kW

How you can apply for the Micro-generation Support Scheme (MSS)

The capital grants are a continuation of the existing grants from the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland (SEAI) for domestic applicants, which will transition into the Micro-generation Support Scheme (MSS) grant from January 2021. Applications can be made at the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland (SEAI) website (Solar Electricity PV Grants | Home Energy Grants | SEAI). The third phase of the enabling framework will see the extension of the grant scheme to non-domestic applicants up to 5.9kW in the Summer of 2022. This will be administered by the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland (SEAI).

Am I reading right, they are extending the grants to anything built up until 2021?

I am buying a new build which will be finished early next year, looks like I am out of luck and won't be eligible for any grant if I get PV installed.

KCross

Am I reading right, they are extending the grants to anything built up until 2021?

Yea, seems so. They had a requiement before that your house had to be pre-2011. They have moved that now to pre-2021. Not sure why they are excluding new houses. Maybe new houses need to have it anyway to meet building regs?.... seems a bit odd that they rule out new houses but it is alot better than the previous arbitrary date of pre-2011.

The grants are changing too

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118357790#Comment_118357790