What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

mick087 wrote: »

Its difficult for us to have decent leadership as we the citizens don't have a say.
AZ have not had a good PR with this vaccine at all.
The EU commission have made a mess of this, they took on all the responsibility of acquiring the vaccine but none of the accountability.

Contact your local MEP, the parliament have the power to force the commission to resign. Or did you not know that?

The only thing the EU appear to be guilty of, in my opinion, is naivety. Really they didn’t think that there would be so much hoarding going on. I guess they thought the world is a better place than it actually is.

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

Equally there are some (like yourself) who will blame the EU no matter what they do, despite the fact that AZ are miraculously able to deliver everything they promised on time and with the right quantities whilst simultaneously unable to do the same for the EU. Not only that, but only the EU is exporting vaccines, Britain and the US are not (whether there is an official 'ban' is a rather moot point).

I don't think it is a moot point. If you can't establish that there's some sort of ban then I'm afraid it is just the UK accepting delivery on what they have ordered having done a better deal than the EU.

Aegir wrote: »

You’ve or serious inferiority issues.

It was a stupid response to a stupid post. One where the poster was accusing the British of being untrustworthy.

The truth of the matter is that the commission is under pressure for a less than Stella performance and are looking to divert blame. Something that a cabal of posters on here absolutely lap up because they love nothing more than blaming the British for everything.

This has nothing to do with the uk. It is an eu mess and it seems to be pretty obvious that most of the nations in Europe understand this.

You make that kind of comment, you will inevitably get sarcastic responses.

Look, I don't agree with overblown rhetoric in that post about the UK being a "rogue state" but from an Irish perspective the current UK government is not trustworthy. You have senior politicians from FG (our biggest Anglophobes them) saying it publically, which is incredible in a way. It is not controversial or rabid Brit Bashing anyway.

It is not deflection from the EU.
This issue does involve the UK deeply, it also has a huge overlapping vaccine order from the same MNC which cannot now produce what it promised and every vaccine dose EU gets its hands on is one fewer for UK and vice versa, it is a zero sum. I don't think the EU or UK expected to have Indian or US locations providing the AZ vaccines, so production was either going to happen in plants in the EU or in the UK.

The slower vaccination rollout is an "EU mess" alright (in sense EU, not UK is responsible). As was posted above the biggest issue is that the EU was naive in general, its not a very nice world and not looking out for yourself/protecting your interests strongly enough is punished and taken advantage of. Even with these huge amounts being exported, if AZ and main suppliers could roughly do what they said they would for the EU (meet the target +/- 15% say not 70-80% shortfalls), there would be no problems.

About this particular order of vaccine (AZ) discussed in the thread, having something so critical (Q1/Q2 EU vaccine rollout) with dependencies running up directly against post Brexit UK, which is out to be a strategic rival and success story vs (and preferably IMO at expense of) the "rump" EU was a bad error.
There will be a much longer spoon used when supping with the UK after the pandemic I expect.

Bit cynical wrote: »

I don't think it is a moot point. If you can't establish that there's some sort of ban then I'm afraid it is just the UK accepting delivery on what they have ordered having done a better deal than the EU.

For someone that seems to be a bit cynical, it sure seems to depend on the subject matter. If you think there is no vaccine nationalism happening in the UK and that their politicians are above using it for their own purposes and standing in the eyes of their voters, then I suggest a username change to something more appropriate. Maybe, A Bit Naïve, as that would be more in keeping with what you seem to be displaying with this post.

Let us look at how a politician will use this for their own benefit, especially before they knew the figures of exports from one area,

The EU's vaccine nationalism is even more dangerous than it looks

While the first instinct of many of us in Britain is to give help to our neighbours as soon as possible, many European countries have made it much harder to do so by repeatedly undermining the mainstay of Britain’s vaccine effort, the Oxford/AstraZeneca product. It is difficult to assist when EU countries are sitting on millions of unused doses, paused their own use of a good vaccine without compelling reason and have cast doubt on a product their people need – President Macron being a particular offender. All of this makes co-operation between the UK and EU even more fraught, when relations are already tense.

So where do those stand that has been quick to say that the EU isn't exporting but MNC's are? Here is a politician doing exactly what they have been trying to tell posters on here they are wrong about. Also I don't know what Mr Hague thinks of the disrespect the US FDA is showing the British effort by questioning their data. He will be furious when he finds out, right?

And once it has been concluded that neighbours and friends cannot be relied upon, even to honour contracts solemnly signed, this problem will not be restricted to vaccines. Any other product deemed necessary for a nation’s health security will need to be sourced and produced within its own borders, including medical devices and protective equipment.

The price of vaccine nationalism is therefore very high, and we could be paying it for decades. The British Government is right to seek to defuse the escalating row with Brussels, and to err on the side of generosity if compromises can be made over supplies so far unallocated. It should extend the offer of co-operation with the superb facilities we are creating to many nations around the world, provided their reciprocal commitment is guaranteed. But across the Channel this week, EU leaders should draw back from compounding a series of errors with an even bigger one.

So the bolded bits, seems like contracts only need to be honoured one way. The UK has never given any thought to other countries but itself with the vaccines and if they had they would have calmed tensions with the EU earlier, before they realised they would now suffer from supply issues. It must have been fun for Raab to rebuke the EU on the claim that the UK is blocking vaccine exports, but once the facts came out it just undermined him in the eyes of his peers. I doubt he or his party cares, they got their shot at the EU and that is what counted.

Also, honouring contracts is a two way street. You cannot break international treaty's but then cry about the other side trying to get a company to abide by the terms in their own contracts with said corporation. That makes no sense at all.


As for the news that the EU could have kept almost as many vaccines within the EU as has been exported out had they acted like other countries, well actions speak louder than words. Don't look at words but actions, anybody can talk about the global effort but when you rush to put jabs in as many arms as you can and discard manufacturer guidelines in the process and don't export any of your supplies, well it makes sense to throw your shade at what you perceive to be the other side to take attention away from yourself.

The reaction of posters after that tweet was posted was enlightening on this thread. Sometimes it really is better to be quiet, there will be a story in the future where we screw up the rollout or the EU signs a contract with a dodgy company. Would have been better to wait for that than trying to defend a position that just keeps looking worse and worse for the side flinging crap that you have been defending. Also, why anyone in Ireland would be defending the UK against the EU when it comes to vaccines when they will depend on the EU rollout to get their own jab just seems weird to me. But that is just me.

Aegir wrote: »

If only there was somewhere you could vent your hatred. Like a forum on Politics or something like that.

This thread is about Astra Zeneca and the EU’s inability to work with a supplier to get what it wants.

In fairness Aegir it's a bit rich to set yourself up here sniffing at people 'venting hatred' and you using an Gorta Mór to make a point earlier. And that's a charitable reading of what you wrote.

Your credibility as a reasonable point of view is shot completely to me at least.

dogbert27 wrote: »

SII has been told to stop all exports until India's quota is met.

'Everything else has taken a backseat (to India's needs), for the time being at least,' said one of the sources.



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9404901/Now-India-bans-AstraZeneca-exports-fresh-blow-Britains-supply-chain-woes.html

Will be nice to see Aegir, Rob et al to be in here attacking India for a change instead of the EU.

Actually I better not hold my breath!

They've been very clear about that all along, Indian supplies come first.

Meanwhile, I see that the AZ Dutch plant approval may now be into April.


https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/dutch-plant-at-heart-astrazeneca-s-euro-vaccine-row-could-soon-be-approved-report

moritz1234 wrote: »

This new 29million doses that AZ just found.
How is the pro rata basis worked out for the Republic of Ireland - we are approx 1.09% of the EU Population

What am I missing here - should we be getting 316100 doses and not the 160000 allocated ?

Some of that is earmarked to go elsewhere I believe, so it's about 16m the EU are talking about.

Aegir wrote: »

If only there was somewhere you could vent your hatred. Like a forum on Politics or something like that.

A somewhat ironic ask since you haven't stopped whinging about the EU.

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Except now they are not going to be misplaced and arrive on a plane in UK

Boris and the rabid media spitting on cooperation and bring greedy has really rubbed me the wrong way.

This is an EU balls up. Blaming Boris is beyond pathetic.

landofthetree wrote: »

This is an EU balls up. Blaming Boris is beyond pathetic.

Britain did want to put the flag on the vials!

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Spell out exactly how EU messed up

As far as I can see their only mistake was trusting in AZ to deliver after taking a third of a billion euro

The EU and Berlin have insisted there will be sufficient vaccine available, but delays in signing purchasing contracts mean that the elixir will arrive late and there might not be enough. The EU even declined an option that would have allowed for the purchase of hundreds of millions of extra doses.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/the-planning-disaster-germany-and-europe-could-fall-short-on-vaccine-supplies-a-3db4702d-ae23-4e85-85b7-20145a898abd

The contrast is unmistakable. On the one hand, there is the supposedly incompetent Trump administration, which will provide vaccines to 20 million Americans in the next two to three weeks alone. By the end of March, the plan is for around 100 million Americans to have received the two vaccine injections they need.

The EU appears to have bought too little, too late and at times from the wrong producers. And it appears that it turned down hundreds of millions of vaccine doses that are now lacking.

Etc etc etc

mick087 wrote: »

The EU commission have certainty been slow its quite some mess.

Individual EU states elected governments have to take some blame to with slowness on some decision making during this emergency crisis.

AZ well the PR has not been good at all.

The majority of individual states offload responsibility and accountability to the unaccountable European commission. It's very convenient for them.

stefanovich wrote: »

The majority of individual states offload responsibility and accountability to the unaccountable European commission. It's very convenient for them.

what is the solution to the issue and the people in charge here are accountable to you if you actually bother voting

This narrative that the EU have "totally messed up" is coming straight from the Daily Express and rabid Brexiteers on social media.

Messed up what exactly? Revealed yesterday that 88m doses have been delivered to EU states and about to rapidly accelerate. Pfizer and Moderna deliveries have gone to plan : J & J about to be rolled out.