Intel

mariaalice · 25-03-2021 9:39am #1

If jobs are supposed to migrating to cheaper economies because we are paying ourselves too much? in the rich western developed world, how come this is happening in intel Leixlip?.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0323/1205737-intel-to-create-1-600-new-jobs-at-leixlip-campus?

Also how come it's a campus and not a workplace?.

Quantum Erasure · 25-03-2021 9:44am

It's a campus of many workplaces

Gregor Samsa · 25-03-2021 9:51am

A campus is the grounds and buildings of a large organisation, usually multiple buildings spread across a large area.

Intel's facility in Kildare fits that description:

In the context of the RTE article, I don't think the word "workplace" would really be used in place of the word "campus", it just doesn't read correctly:

Chipmaker Intel has said it will create 1,600 permanent hi-tech jobs at its Leixlip campus workplace, once it has completed the construction of a new chip manufacturing factory there.

Peregrinus · 25-03-2021 10:00am

mariaalice wrote: »

If jobs are supposed to migrating to cheaper economies because we are paying ourselves too much? in the rich western developed world, how come this is happening in intel Leixlip?

Lord bless us, but where have you been for the past 35 years, mariaalice? Ireland can't - and, anyway, doesn't want to - compete with third world countries on wage rates, so its strategy has long been to attract investors not by offering cheap workers but by offering highly skilled, highly productive workers. That doesn't attract all investors, of course; there's plenty of work that can be done by minimally skilled and not especially productive workers, and industries looking for workers of that kind won't give Ireland a second glance. But there are also industries - notably IT, pharmaceuticals, financial services - where quality of labour is at least as important a factor as price of labour, and those are the industries that Ireland targets. With, it has to be said, considerable success.

Gregor Samsa · 25-03-2021 10:03am

The EU and US have both said that domestic microchip manufacturing is in their strategic interests, as opposed to relying exclusively Asia. I would assume there's incentives for companies to bring manufacturing back to the west.

In fairness to Intel, they've been making chips here since 1989, so this isn't something completely new. Some people have this idea that everything is "made in China", but that's not actually the case. There's plenty of manufacturing that goes on here, in Europe and in the US.

Also, this isn't going down very well in Asia, and there seems to be a similar misunderstanding about the economics of manufacturing in the West. Here's FB comments this morning from someone I know in Taiwan:

mariaalice · 25-03-2021 10:14am

Peregrinus wrote: »

Lord bless us, but where have you been for the past 35 years, mariaalice? Ireland can't - and, anyway, doesn't want to - compete with third world countries on wage rates, so its strategy has long been to attract investors not by offering cheap workers but by offering highly skilled, highly productive workers. That doesn't attract all investors, of course; there's plenty of work that can be done by minimally skilled and not especially productive workers, and industries looking for workers of that kind won't give Ireland a second glance. But there are also industries - notably IT, pharmaceuticals, financial services - where quality of labour is at least as important a factor as price of labour, and those are the industries that Ireland targets. With, it has to be said, considerable success.

This is AH, there use to be a fair few on here totally believing we are all doomed in the west, combined with a borderline obsession with rescissions.

I am well aware we are a wealthy highly educated nation.

25-03-2021 10:22am

Most impressive operation I have ever seen in terms of efficiency and we are lucky to have them.

The speed at which they moved the road on front of the plant to facilitate is frightening. Must have been 20 bogey trucks lined up to take out the ground and about 15 machines going at it. Think within 3 weeks they had the old one ripped out and a brand new one in resurfaced.

Meanwhile down the road in Moyglare there was a crew of council workers working on a small stretch and causing havoc for the guts of a year.

Quantum Erasure · 25-03-2021 10:37am

Peregrinus wrote: »

Lord bless us, but where have you been for the past 35 years, mariaalice? Ireland can't - and, anyway, doesn't want to - compete with third world countries on wage rates, so its strategy has long been to attract investors not by offering cheap workers but by offering highly skilled, highly productive workers. That doesn't attract all investors, of course; there's plenty of work that can be done by minimally skilled and not especially productive workers, and industries looking for workers of that kind won't give Ireland a second glance. But there are also industries - notably IT, pharmaceuticals, financial services - where quality of labour is at least as important a factor as price of labour, and those are the industries that Ireland targets. With, it has to be said, considerable success.

that and the low corporate tax

timmyntc · 25-03-2021 10:44am

Lithography machines for chips are mostly made in Netherlands I think?

Also EU want semiconductor manufacturing in the EU - so there is a push to move away from Asia. Especially given fears of China expanding into Taiwan in the near future.

mariaalice · 25-03-2021 10:47am

timmyntc wrote: »

Lithography machines for chips are mostly made in Netherlands I think?

Also EU want semiconductor manufacturing in the EU - so there is a push to move away from Asia. Especially given fears of China expanding into Taiwan in the near future.

Capitalism save its self from devouring its self.

fryup · 25-03-2021 11:12am

yaaahhh lets all move to Leixlip

what's it like working there anyway? as a production operative?

Gregor Samsa · 25-03-2021 11:14am

timmyntc wrote: »

there is a push to move away from Asia. Especially given fears of China expanding into Taiwan in the near future.

I think this is the main reason my friend in Taiwan (and his friends there) reacted badly to the news. It's a sign that western companies have doubts about the long-term viability of Taiwanese (de facto) independence, and stability in parts of Asia that China has interests in.

corner of hells · 25-03-2021 1:10pm

fryup wrote: »

yaaahhh lets all move to Leixlip

what's it like working there anyway? as a production operative?

I worked as a contractor there about 20 years ago during a an upgrade , team consisted of Americans, Japanese and Irish.
Without fail , every American in the team could only be described as pricks , they spent their time sneaking around , no sense of humour and no ability to engage in conversation at any level unless work related .

The Japanese were gas characters , out of team of 20 only one could speak English to decent level, lack of English wasn't a barrier to the rest of them enjoying themselves, Guinness and learning how to curse was a priority for them.Great fun and a great sense of humour.
Many a barman in Leixlip village was answered with "ask me bollix or hows your ma " on a regular basis.

Hande hoche! · 25-03-2021 1:55pm

timmyntc wrote: »

Lithography machines for chips are mostly made in Netherlands I think?

Also EU want semiconductor manufacturing in the EU - so there is a push to move away from Asia. Especially given fears of China expanding into Taiwan in the near future.

Yep and the other major source in Asia has a belligerent neighbour prone to missile testing.

riclad · 25-03-2021 1:58pm

Intel is building 2 new fabs in america ,theres a world shortage of chips ,
intel needs to make chips in europe as well as america.
its not wise to depend on china or taiwan for all chip supply.
most cheap products, and phones are made in low wage countrys eg iphones are made in china

https://www.lifewire.com/where-is-the-iphone-made-1999503
There are tariffs and trade barriers ,some chinese tech companys cannot sell phones or chips in america.
i think china is just waiting for the right time to invade Taiwan
maybe when theres another republican president in power in america.

25-03-2021 2:03pm

Peregrinus wrote: »

Lord bless us, but where have you been for the past 35 years, mariaalice? Ireland can't - and, anyway, doesn't want to - compete with third world countries on wage rates, so its strategy has long been to attract investors not by offering cheap workers but by offering highly skilled, highly productive workers. That doesn't attract all investors, of course; there's plenty of work that can be done by minimally skilled and not especially productive workers, and industries looking for workers of that kind won't give Ireland a second glance. But there are also industries - notably IT, pharmaceuticals, financial services - where quality of labour is at least as important a factor as price of labour, and those are the industries that Ireland targets. With, it has to be said, considerable success.

Yeh this is why the idea that high skilled jobs will flee if taxes are equalised is bunk.

KilOit · 25-03-2021 5:17pm

Whatever the reason it's great to manufacture very valuable items in ireland. Europe needs to create more items within its borders and stop relying on Asia although the downside is things will get more expensive but automation could offset that

Buddy Bubs · 25-03-2021 5:30pm

corner of hells wrote: »

I worked as a contractor there about 20 years ago during a an upgrade , team consisted of Americans, Japanese and Irish.
Without fail , every American in the team could only be described as pricks , they spent their time sneaking around , no sense of humour and no ability to engage in conversation at any level unless work related .

The Japanese were gas characters , out of team of 20 only one could speak English to decent level, lack of English wasn't a barrier to the rest of them enjoying themselves, Guinness and learning how to curse was a priority for them.Great fun and a great sense of humour.
Many a barman in Leixlip village was answered with "ask me bollix or hows your ma " on a regular basis.

I worked there years ago too alongside some Israelis where there was a bit of a crossover. The Israelis were all knobs, just mad into working and trying to convert everyone to the Intel way, brainwashed the poor bastards.
They came over regular enough, one time I remember myself and a friend up there had to bring them to Lansdowne to watch Ireland v Israel. Muppets they were an embarrassment.

Left them in town, did a legger on them pretended we got separated and phones acting up. They were hopping the next day in work.

Hated working there, but funny enough I know loads that love it and do very well out of the place, so I'd probably recommend it

frosty123 · 25-03-2021 5:30pm

corner of hells wrote: »

The Japanese were gas characters , out of team of 20 only one could speak English to decent level, lack of English wasn't a barrier to the rest of them enjoying themselves, Guinness and learning how to curse was a priority for them.Great fun and a great sense of humour.
Many a barman in Leixlip village was answered with "ask me bollix or hows your ma " on a regular basis.

Really?? any chance you videod them?....would pay good money to see that :-)

"ask me bollix or hows your ma" in a japanese accent has gotta be comedy gold

Joe4321 · 25-03-2021 5:30pm

Intel also has a plant in China, not doing there latest technologies as far as I know but still serving a large market, great to see this continued investment in this country

L1011 · 25-03-2021 5:34pm

You absolutely do not transfer your latest semiconductor tech to a cheap economy that is going to be exceptionally open to industrial espionage

Intel has a plant in China which makes end of life stuff.

Joe4321 · 25-03-2021 5:40pm

I would not call China a cheap economy maybe 10/20 years ago but I no what your saying, its not exactly end of lift chips that they manufacture but it is not near there latest technology maybe a couple of generations behind.

Working class heroes · 25-03-2021 5:41pm

All this talk of chips has me starving.

Joe4321 · 25-03-2021 5:43pm

Salt and vinegar with that

The Master. · 25-03-2021 5:50pm

there is a big factory in bluebell who make mattresses and the guy there said its sooo busy.
so there is a couple of things that are made here.
richie mints are made in inchicore too so thats three things!
too hard for me to chew though.

SeanW · 25-03-2021 6:04pm

riclad wrote: »

https://www.lifewire.com/where-is-the-iphone-made-1999503
There are tariffs and trade barriers ,some chinese tech companys cannot sell phones or chips in america.
i think china is just waiting for the right time to invade Taiwan
maybe when theres another republican president in power in america.

You think Sleepy Joe's going to stop them? China's best chance to take Taiwan is with Democrats in government. Love him or hate him, Trump was the first president to seriously recognise a danger in China.

Richard Hillman · 25-03-2021 6:15pm

There have been lots of jobs announced over the last week, Intel, Workday, Stripe. That's great and all but they ain't going to be employing people who lost their jobs in retail and hospitality. The jobs most likely will be sourced abroad, so the unemployment numbers will be unaffected and they are going to have to live somewhere, so rental prices will go zoooom.

I remember when job announcements were a good thing. Now they fill me with dread. It's like Government are saying they don't want lowly non-skilled workers and we're replacing you with other people that work for trendy tech companies.

25-03-2021 6:21pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

There have been lots of jobs announced over the last week, Intel, Workday, Stripe. That's great and all but they ain't going to be employing people who lost their jobs in retail and hospitality. The jobs most likely will be sourced abroad, so the unemployment numbers will be unaffected and they are going to have to live somewhere, so rental prices will go zoooom.

I remember when job announcements were a good thing. Now they fill me with dread. It's like Government are saying they don't want lowly non-skilled workers and we're replacing you with other people that work for trendy tech companies.

Such a pessimistic attitude.

Of course they will employ people who lost their jobs in retail and hospitality. People need to have the foresight and attitude to believe that they can work or these companies.

No one is being replaced, the jobs will be there but the initiative part is on you to sufficiently skill yourself grab one. There are many Government supports there to get started and no reason why a bar worker on 30k could not be on 100k per year 5 years down the road.

screamer · 25-03-2021 6:26pm

Simone Shaggy Sprinter wrote: »

Such a pessimistic attitude.
There are many Government supports there to get started and no reason why a bar worker on 30k could not be on 100k per year 5 years down the road.

Are you being serious? There's tech people who have skills, qualifications and experience in the field, and wouldn't be earning 100K 5 years down the road.

Anyways, the main reason Intel are here is government grants, and tax expediency of being located in the EU, that's it.

Joe4321 · 25-03-2021 6:29pm

What negativity, your right, you will never get a job in a place like that with that attitude

MyStubbleItches · 25-03-2021 7:06pm

screamer wrote: »

Are you being serious? There's tech people who have skills, qualifications and experience in the field, and wouldn't be earning 100K 5 years down the road.

Absolutely that poster is being serious. There are plenty in our place (manufacturing) that came from what might be considered menial or short term jobs (off the top of my head, there’s one who stacked shelves in Dunnes, one who worked in a cake shop and even a barman) and are earning up to 78k.

Some are temporary and are on less but still on quite good money. Our company likes to promote from the floor so no reason any of us couldn’t be in management if that was the direction we wanted to take and 100k + is quite achievable.

BattleCorp · 25-03-2021 7:21pm

INTEL is a great place to work. Good conditions and good wages.

TheIrishGrover · 25-03-2021 7:30pm

SeanW wrote: »

You think Sleepy Joe's going to stop them? China's best chance to take Taiwan is with Democrats in government. Love him or hate him, Trump was the first president to seriously recognise a danger in China.

Almost 2 pages folks... Almost 2 full pages before it began.

Papa_Bear · 25-03-2021 7:37pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

There have been lots of jobs announced over the last week, Intel, Workday, Stripe. That's great and all but they ain't going to be employing people who lost their jobs in retail and hospitality. The jobs most likely will be sourced abroad, so the unemployment numbers will be unaffected and they are going to have to live somewhere, so rental prices will go zoooom.

I remember when job announcements were a good thing. Now they fill me with dread. It's like Government are saying they don't want lowly non-skilled workers and we're replacing you with other people that work for trendy tech companies.

Damn right.

However dont worry, in a year or two they will announce just as many layoffs when their proffits are down. Its like a rollercoaster with intel. Hire them fire them, hire them fire them. Their announcements give me a headache.

TheIrishGrover · 25-03-2021 7:42pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

There have been lots of jobs announced over the last week, Intel, Workday, Stripe. That's great and all but they ain't going to be employing people who lost their jobs in retail and hospitality. The jobs most likely will be sourced abroad.....

...... It's like Government are saying they don't want lowly non-skilled workers and we're replacing you with other people that work for trendy tech companies.

Well, to the 2nd point first: It's not that they don't want us competing in the non-skilled on a global scale. It's that we simply can't compete. I worked as a skilled worker in an international tech manufacturing company in the late 90s - mid 2010s. But the majority of the jobs were semi-skilled so it went to China. As others have said, even China isn't cheap anymore. Said company moved to India and then Mexico (Or the other way around) and is now pretty much moving away from hardware altogether.

As to the 2nd point. The company I am in now has had 3 or 4 jobs in my department over the last 2 years and each one was sourced from abroad. Not because of cost as they were paid the same going rate as they would have paid anyone. but simply because the people could not be found here. I was involved in the hiring and maybe 5% of the CVs were from Ireland.

Of course many times people will need to upskill/go back to school/college in order to find new employment. I did and 2/3 of my team did. It's tough but it can be done.

Joe4321 · 25-03-2021 8:24pm

Exactly, the days of going to college, getting a degree and job are gone, you need to keep up with the latest technologies and keep up skilling, even Intel required that a lot of its staff go back to college and upskill, as many of them did on their days of,

Brian? · 25-03-2021 8:28pm

fryup wrote: »

yaaahhh lets all move to Leixlip

what's it like working there anyway? as a production operative?

There aren’t any production operators anymore. Haven’t been for about 10 years.

Irish_rat · 25-03-2021 8:31pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

All this talk of chips has me starving.

In the semiconductor industry we don't call them chips.

Pawwed Rig · 25-03-2021 8:32pm

L1011 wrote: »

You absolutely do not transfer your latest semiconductor tech to a cheap economy that is going to be exceptionally open to industrial espionage

Intel has a plant in China which makes end of life stuff.

There are US laws that prevent companies from manufacturing the high tech stuff in China as it can be used on weapons systems etc.

I worked there years ago. There was alot of nonsense around safety (I remember once they made a video that showed all of their highly qualified staff how to safely make a cup of tea without killing themselves :pac: ) but the money was good and the work was easy. Fairly unchallenging workplace tbh which is why I eventually left but for the right job I would go back.

Brian? · 25-03-2021 8:33pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

There have been lots of jobs announced over the last week, Intel, Workday, Stripe. That's great and all but they ain't going to be employing people who lost their jobs in retail and hospitality. The jobs most likely will be sourced abroad, so the unemployment numbers will be unaffected and they are going to have to live somewhere, so rental prices will go zoooom.

I remember when job announcements were a good thing. Now they fill me with dread. It's like Government are saying they don't want lowly non-skilled workers and we're replacing you with other people that work for trendy tech companies.

Are you for real? These are all great news. The jobs will only be sourced abroad if there aren’t enough qualified Irish people to fill them. No one preferentially hires abroad.

I work in the Netherlands, we get lots of Irish graduates coming to work here. There are plenty of Irish graduates for these jobs.

Brian? · 25-03-2021 8:36pm

Papa_Bear wrote: »

Damn right.

However dont worry, in a year or two they will announce just as many layoffs when their proffits are down. Its like a rollercoaster with intel. Hire them fire them, hire them fire them. Their announcements give me a headache.

When was the last time they laid people off? I know, I survived it. It was the only time they laid people off in Ireland. 1 time.

They offered voluntary redundancies a couple of other times. Each time there were more volunteers than jobs to go. A mate of mine tried to take it twice over the years and was refused.

Brian? · 25-03-2021 8:37pm

Irish_rat wrote: »

In the semiconductor industry we don't call them chips.

Yeah we do.

Joe4321 · 25-03-2021 8:40pm

There is a lot of dangerous chemicals on that site and they do take safety very seriously, compared to some other manufacturing places Intel is right up there regarding safety,

Joe4321 · 25-03-2021 8:42pm

And yes they do call them Chips

Fritzbox · 25-03-2021 8:48pm

Irish_rat wrote: »

In the semiconductor industry we don't call them chips.

What do they call them: French fries, pommes frites?

Depends which country your dining in, I suppose.

25-03-2021 8:51pm

Joe4321 wrote: »

Intel also has a plant in China, not doing there latest technologies as far as I know but still serving a large market, great to see this continued investment in this country

Sold a few months ago to the Koreans. Political relations between the US and China are cooling down.

pillphil · 25-03-2021 8:53pm

Fritzbox wrote: »

What do they call them: French fries, pommes frites?

Depends which country your dining in, I suppose.

A chip's a chip, the just call it le chip

25-03-2021 9:04pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

There have been lots of jobs announced over the last week, Intel, Workday, Stripe. That's great and all but they ain't going to be employing people who lost their jobs in retail and hospitality. The jobs most likely will be sourced abroad, so the unemployment numbers will be unaffected and they are going to have to live somewhere, so rental prices will go zoooom.

I remember when job announcements were a good thing. Now they fill me with dread. It's like Government are saying they don't want lowly non-skilled workers and we're replacing you with other people that work for trendy tech companies.

Any one who has the required qualifications can get these jobs, speaking from personal experience of having worked retail security and construction from the age of 15 to 25 and then moving to the I.T. industry. Good few lads that I worked with went into I.T. and other areas such as accountancy.

If someone can't pass a course, or if they do and can't get a job in a specific sector that has plenty of open positions, that's on them no one else.

25-03-2021 9:15pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

There have been lots of jobs announced over the last week, Intel, Workday, Stripe. That's great and all but they ain't going to be employing people who lost their jobs in retail and hospitality. The jobs most likely will be sourced abroad, so the unemployment numbers will be unaffected and they are going to have to live somewhere, so rental prices will go zoooom.

I remember when job announcements were a good thing. Now they fill me with dread. It's like Government are saying they don't want lowly non-skilled workers and we're replacing you with other people that work for trendy tech companies.

Why don't ya open a pub in a few months? Lot of pent-up demand, you can hire plenty in hospitality.

fryup · 25-03-2021 10:25pm

fryup wrote: »

what's it like working there anyway? as a production operative?

Brian? wrote: »

There aren’t any production operators anymore. Haven’t been for about 10 years.

so what would be the entry-level non-skilled job there ?

Joe4321 · 25-03-2021 10:32pm

You need third level education, minimum

Intel

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