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COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

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Comments

  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think a big part of the vaccine scepticism has to come down to the fact that the vast majority of people with experience of the virus haven't had a massive impact from it.
    Vast majority of younger (funny to say that about 50 year olds) people who had it were sick for a couple of days. And that was it.
    Even for me I'm 3 degrees of separation from anyone who's died from it. And that was an old man who smoked. When most of the deaths are people who have lived beyond average life expectancy it's hard to get so worried about a disease.
    One wonders also about people who are seriously ill going into hospital with it. If it's mostly people in their 80s with a few other things wrong with them would they have been allowed take up an ICU bed for whatever amount of time if it was heart failure a few months later that landed them in there?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    I think a big part of the vaccine scepticism has to come down to the fact that the vast majority of people with experience of the virus haven't had a massive impact from it.
    Vast majority of younger (funny to say that about 50 year olds) people who had it were sick for a couple of days. And that was it.
    Even for me I'm 3 degrees of separation from anyone who's died from it. And that was an old man who smoked. When most of the deaths are people who have lived beyond average life expectancy it's hard to get so worried about a disease.
    One wonders also about people who are seriously ill going into hospital with it. If it's mostly people in their 80s with a few other things wrong with them would they have been allowed take up an ICU bed for whatever amount of time if it was heart failure a few months later that landed them in there?

    Some countries have had problems with big pharma in the past and that would inform a lot of it. I know a number of sceptics both here and abroad. None of them disagree with vaccination but they collectively have issues around the speed and safety of these vaccines and a genuine fear that they will get some weird reaction to it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,523 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Just so we have this straight

    USA won't export vaccines and 100m get vaccinated. UK won't export vaccines and 55% of the population get vaccinated. But if the EU won't export vaccines we will have supply chain issues.... Looks to me like the UK and USA haven't suffered supply chain issues.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,308 ✭✭✭Irish Stones


    Batch release takes time and done on a batch by batch basis, with testing to be completed to ensure it meets predefined criteria. They dont just stick it in a vial and ship.
    The qualified person is an individual within a pharma plant who is responsible with ensuring all batches released meet the requirements fully. There are criminal consequences to that individual with not fulfilling those requirements


    In Italy? LOL! :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 410 ✭✭Icantthinkof1


    Does anyone know if dentists/ dental hygienist’s have been vaccinated? I need to take my son for a check up and would feel much safer bringing him if his dentist was vaccinated


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  • Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just so we have this straight

    USA won't export vaccines and 100m get vaccinated. UK won't export vaccines and 55% of the population get vaccinated. But if the EU won't export vaccines we will have supply chain issues.... Looks to me like the UK and USA haven't suffered supply chain issues.

    Where are they getting their vaccines again?


  • Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    In Italy? LOL! :)

    If the below is not complied with, medicinal products cannot be marketed within the EU, irrespective of where they come from
    Legal Basis for Qualified Persons in Europe.
    The Legal Basis for the Qualified Person is defined in the DIRECTIVE 2001/83/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL OF 6 NOVEMBER 2001 ON THE COMMUNITY CODE RELATING TO MEDICINAL PRODUCTS FOR HUMAN USE.

    For Veterinary Products, the requirements are defined in DIRECTIVE 2001/82/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 6 November 2001 on the Community code relating to veterinary medicinal products.

    In Article 48, the Directive 2001/83 (for veterinary medicinal products, please read Article 52 of Directive 2001/82) requests that EU Member States have to assure that each holder of a manufacturing authorization has to have at least one QP.

    1. Member States shall take all appropriate measures to ensure that the holder of the manufacturing authorization has permanently and continuously at his disposal the services of at least one qualified person, in accordance with the conditions laid down in Article 49, responsible in particular for carrying out the duties specified in Article 51.

    2. If he personally fulfils the conditions laid down in Article 49, the holder of the authorization may himself assume the responsibility referred to in paragraph 1.

    In Article 49 of Directive 2001/83 (for veterinary medicinal products, please read Article 53 of Directive 2001/82), the qualification level as well as the necessary experience of a QP is defined

    1. Member States shall ensure that the qualified person referred to in Article 48 fulfils the minimum conditions of qualification set out in paragraphs 2 and 3.

    2. A qualified person shall be in possession of a diploma, certificate or other evidence of formal qualifications awarded on completion of a university course of study, or a course recognized as equivalent by the Member State concerned, extending over a period of at least four years of theoretical and practical study in one of the following scientific disciplines: pharmacy, medicine, veterinary medicine, chemistry, pharmaceutical chemistry and technology, biology. However, the minimum duration of the university course may be three and a half years where the course is followed by a period of theoretical and practical training of a minimum duration of one year and including a training period of at least six months in a pharmacy open to the public, corroborated by an examination at university level. Where two university courses or two courses recognized by the State as equivalent co-exist in a Member State and where one of these extends over four years and the other over three years, the three-year course leading to a diploma, certificate or other evidence of formal qualifications awarded on completion of a university course or its recognized equivalent shall be considered to fulfil the condition of duration referred to in the second subparagraph in so far as the diplomas, certificates or other evidence of formal qualifications awarded on completion of both courses are recognized as equivalent by the State in question. The course shall include theoretical and practical study bearing upon at least the following basic subjects:

    Applied physics

    General and inorganic chemistry

    Organic chemistry

    Analytical chemistry

    Pharmaceutical chemistry

    including analysis of medicinal products

    General and applied biochemistry (medical)

    Physiology

    Microbiology

    Pharmacology

    Pharmaceutical technology

    Toxicology

    Pharmacognosy (study of the composition and effects of the natural active substances of plant and animal origin).

    Studies in these subjects should be so balanced as to enable the person concerned to fulfil the obligations specified in Article 51.

    In so far as certain diplomas, certificates or other evidence of formal qualifications mentioned in the first subparagraph do not fulfil the criteria laid down in this paragraph, the competent authority of the Member State shall ensure that the person concerned provides evidence of adequate knowledge of the subjects involved.

    3. The qualified person shall have acquired practical experience over at least two years, in one or more undertakings which are authorized to manufacture medicinal products, in the activities of qualitative analysis of medicinal products, of quantitative analysis of active substances and of the testing and checking necessary to ensure the quality of medicinal products. The duration of practical experience may be reduced by one year where a university course lasts for at least five years and by a year and a half where the course lasts for at least six years.
    The responsibilities of a Qualified Person are defined in Article 51 of Directive 2001/83 (for veterinary medicinal products, please read Article 55 of Directive 2001/82)

    1. Member States shall take all appropriate measures to ensure that the qualified person referred to in Article 48, without prejudice to his relationship with the holder of the manufacturing authorization, is responsible, in the context of the procedures referred to in Article 52, for securing:

    (a) in the case of medicinal products manufactured within the Member States concerned, that each batch of medicinal products has been manufactured and checked in compliance with the laws in force in that Member State and in accordance with the requirements of the marketing authorization;

    (b) in the case of medicinal products coming from third countries, that each production batch has undergone in the importing Member State a full qualitative analysis, a quantitative analysis of at least all the active constituents and all the other tests or checks necessary to ensure the quality of medicinal products in accordance with the requirements of the marketing authorization. The batches of medicinal products which have undergone such controls in a Member State shall be exempt from the controls if they are marketed in another Member State, accompanied by the control reports signed by the qualified person.

    2. In the case of medicinal products imported from a third country, where appropriate arrangements have been made by the Community with the exporting country to ensure that the manufacturer of the medicinal product applies standards of good manufacturing practice at least equivalent to those laid down by the Community, and to ensure that the controls referred to under point (b) of the first subparagraph of paragraph 1 have been carried out in the exporting country, the qualified person may be relieved of responsibility for carrying out those controls.

    3. In all cases and particularly where the medicinal products are released for sale, the qualified person must certify in a register or equivalent document provided for that purpose, that each production batch satisfies the provisions of this Article; the said register or equivalent document must be kept up to date as operations are carried out and must remain at the disposal of the agents of the competent authority for the period specified in the provisions of the Member State concerned and in any event for at least five years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,666 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Does anyone know if dentists/ dental hygienist’s have been vaccinated? I need to take my son for a check up and would feel much safer bringing him if his dentist was vaccinated


    Everyone at our dentist was vaccinated a few weeks ago.
    Why not give them a call to check?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,308 ✭✭✭Irish Stones


    If the below is not complied with, medicinal products cannot be marketed within the EU, irrespective of where they come from


    OK, I see that, but "criminal consequences" is sci-fi ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Sanjuro


    josip wrote: »
    Everyone at our dentist was vaccinated a few weeks ago.
    Why not give them a call to check?

    My mam went to the dentist yesterday. She also had everyone vaccinated in her surgery. I know these are anecdotal, but I'd imagine dentists would have been a pretty high cohord. Frontline workers and all.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭eeepaulo


    The US blocked all exports of vaccines from plants in the us until the past week when they sent a few that they weren’t using anyway to Canada and Mexico. The EU have allowed exports to 33 countries of 40million doses from plants within the EU. If the eu had banned exports they would have administered nearly as many as the US overall and more than the uk per capita as they have been the biggest importer from the eu. Its a bit c*ntish to vaccinate young people in your own country while hcw or the very old can’t get it in countries with continuing large outbreaks. Due to the uproar the eu is now considering going down the c*ntish route, but looks like maybe only towards those countries that have already vaccinated the vulnerable, until the eu get their own vulnerable vaccinated.


    Regardless of what is decided at the summit, I'd love to hear ursula von der leyen start the press conference with either

    Due to the c*ntish behaviour of britian......

    Or

    Inspite of the c*ntish behaviour of britian......


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Melanchthon


    eeepaulo wrote: »
    Regardless of what is decided at the summit, I'd love to hear ursula von der leyen start the press conference with either

    Due to the c*ntish behaviour of britian......

    Or

    Inspite of the c*ntish behaviour of britian......

    The way people go nuts over the UK and don't give a damn about the Israeli exports when they were having to give free shots in pubs to people as encouragement sort of highlights how tied up this is with Brexit.

    And yes I know Pfizer /BioNTech have delivered


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Just passed 500,000 people mark having received first dose on Monday.
    548045.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭MerlinSouthDub


    Apogee wrote: »
    Just passed 500,000 people mark having received first dose on Monday.

    Great news - 13.5% of the adult population. Yes it is frustrating that we are behind the UK etc, but we are making progress, and a large number of vulnerable people who could have died from Covid are now well protected. Things are getting better every week, every day, although it is hard to see it sometimes.

    https://twitter.com/IrelandVaccine


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,417 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1375037640169361412

    Considering we had previously been over 90% doses to Jabs, why is there a gap of 175k doses unadministered now?

    Last I checked we were not doing 100k a week, so that gap amounts to two weeks of doses just sitting around.

    There should be no excuse for not hitting 150k to 170k jabs this week as the vaccines are there.


  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1375037640169361412

    Considering we had previously been over 90% doses to Jabs, why is there a gap of 175k doses unadministered now?

    Last I checked we were not doing 100k a week, so that gap amounts to two weeks of doses just sitting around.

    There should be no excuse for not hitting 150k to 170k jabs this week as the vaccines are there.

    Keeping 2nd doses more than likely. The usual abundance of caution that's holding back most of the continent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭timsey tiger


    The way people go nuts over the UK and don't give a damn about the Israeli exports when they were having to give free shots in pubs to people as encouragement sort of highlights how tied up this is with Brexit.

    And yes I know Pfizer /BioNTech have delivered

    It is only about Brexit in UK. In EU it is about AZ and their outragious behavour diverting vaccines from EU to countries that paid more per shot. Initially mainly UK.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭NeuralNetwork


    Something doesnt look right there.

    1 million is almost 30% of the population of Berlin. 362,000 is 10%. We have given first jab to 10%. So it appears they are right in line with our rollout

    I hadn't actually compared it to the population of the City State of Berlin, but I think the point being made is more that the vaccine appointments aren't being taken up. They seem to be working quite a bit ahead on inviting people with codes.

    The media over there is definitely banging on a lot about AstraZeneca. It's the same in France - the story is starting to grow legs and AstraZeneca changing their data to US authorities etc and the pause and clotting questions have been a big deal.

    The other thing that's not really being understood here in Ireland is that a lot of people in France in particular think the EMA approved far too quickly. We've been hammering them here for being too slow, but that's not necessarily the perception elsewhere in Europe. We're just seeing the UK media bashing the EMA and applying it.

    The reality is probably somewhere in the middle. They need to be thorough to ensure that they are both safe and that it reassures vaccine sceptics, of whom there are many more in some countries than there are here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,468 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1375037640169361412

    Considering we had previously been over 90% doses to Jabs, why is there a gap of 175k doses unadministered now?

    Last I checked we were not doing 100k a week, so that gap amounts to two weeks of doses just sitting around.

    There should be no excuse for not hitting 150k to 170k jabs this week as the vaccines are there.

    To start with you've a large bulk of AZ that couldn't be used for a week so stock on hand increases there by roughly 90k while it couldn't be used. Secondly Moderna require 50% of stock to be held back


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭NeuralNetwork


    There's a lot of activity at mass vaccination centres here today too to get the outlying healthcare workers done. So it's quite possible that buffer of vaccines will be absorbed by demand very quickly.

    I genuinely don't think we are having any issues with rollout, rather just with supply needing to upscale.

    There's always going to be some degree of buffer in any supply chain like that.

    Because there have been bumps in delivery schedules, you can't apply just-in-time or you will end up with people turning up at appointments without vaccines to give and throw the whole thing into chaos.

    As the supply chains become more reliable, you can probably scale back the buffers.

    It's quite different at the moment to say a consumer product like, let's say milk, that's isn plentiful supply from established and highly reliable supply chains, so you don't need to keep anything in stock. However, if you've a situation where you've a scheduled demand (through appointments) and a product that has suffered from bursty supplies and production glitches, you will always need a managed buffer to ensure smooth supplies.

    The last thing you want to have is stop/start stuff at vaccine centres or gp clinics.


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  • Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://twitter.com/COVID19DataIE/status/1375037752979435523

    Not great today, really need to hit 20k a day this week looking at those supplies.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 205 ✭✭Skygord


    Anyone notice that the number of vaccinations reported for cohort 1 went DOWN?

    Monday 15 March: cohort 1 180,594
    Monday 22 March: cohort 1 176,676

    Link to 15th:https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/vaccination-programme-dashboard-as-of-15-march-2021.pdf

    Link to 22nd:https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/vaccination-programme-dashboard-as-of-22-march-2021.pdf


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭NeuralNetwork


    Skygord wrote: »
    Anyone notice that the number of vaccinations reported for cohort 1 went DOWN?

    Monday 15 March: cohort 1 180,594
    Monday 22 March: cohort 1 176,676

    Link to 15th:https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/vaccination-programme-dashboard-as-of-15-march-2021.pdf

    Link to 22nd:https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/vaccination-programme-dashboard-as-of-22-march-2021.pdf


    Cannot open the attachment on this device. Is it weekly data or cumulative?
    you'd sort of expect cohort 1 to be completed or nearly completed at this stage on second shots. So it will feature less on the stats.

    I am aware of plenty of people in the over 85 cohort who have now 100% completed their vaccinations this week.

    Cohort 1 was even earlier than that so I would fully expect the number of doses needed to be reducing by now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    Skygord wrote: »
    Anyone notice that the number of vaccinations reported for cohort 1 went DOWN?

    Monday 15 March: cohort 1 180,594
    Monday 22 March: cohort 1 176,676

    Link to 15th:https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/vaccination-programme-dashboard-as-of-15-march-2021.pdf

    Link to 22nd:https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/vaccination-programme-dashboard-as-of-22-march-2021.pdf

    Presumably moving some miscoded people to Cohort 2 etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 205 ✭✭Skygord


    Well, you'd sort of expect cohort 1 to be completed or nearly completed at this stage on second shots. So it will feature less on the stats.

    I am aware of plenty of people in the over 85 cohort who have now 100% completed their vaccinations this week.

    Cohort 1 was even earlier than that so I would fully expect the number of doses needed to be reducing by now.

    The point is the reported TOTAL number of vaccinations is less than the total reported last week. Either this week is wrong, or last week was wrong.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭NeuralNetwork


    Skygord wrote: »
    The point is the reported TOTAL number of vaccinations is less than the total reported last week. Either this week is wrong, or last week was wrong.

    I can't see the report as I can't open the PDF on this phone - need to uninstall something which has screwed up my PDF viewing capabilities!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭MerlinSouthDub


    It is interesting the way people think differently about the same fact i.e. we have 170,000 unused vaccine doses

    Some people: "This is terrible - why are we leaving these in storage and not doing anything with them".
    My head: "This is great - we have 170,000 doses ready to use to protect more people"


  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If they are holding back doses for 2nd doses it would suggest either over-caution or they're not particularly confident that the expected doses will arrive as they're supposed to.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,079 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    It is interesting the way people think differently about the same fact i.e. we have 170,000 unused vaccine doses

    Some people: "This is terrible - why are we leaving these in storage and not doing anything with them".
    My head: "This is great - we have 170,000 doses ready to use to protect more people"

    They only protect people when they are used


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭MerlinSouthDub


    They only protect people when they are used

    Yeah, and it's 100% certain we will use them


This discussion has been closed.
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