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The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,942 ✭✭✭el Fenomeno


    Apparently 9 accusers now. Yikes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Apparently 9 accusers now. Yikes.

    The fact they are growing so quickly means the lawyer is doing absolutely no research to ensure all/any are credible.

    He posted on instagram a mail that appeared to be from the NFL asking for details so they can begin an investigation. He has since deleted the post so I presume it either wasn't real or NFL told him to remove it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,247 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    Lads, I’m watching All or Nothing from 2018 season - it’s about the Panthers. Cam Newton seems like a demi god but I’m now wondering why, three seasons later, he is seen as a weak link for the Patriots? Has his talent waned that much?


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    He's had a series of injuries since then, shoulder injury then a foot injury both of which were fairly serious. He hasn't really gotten back to how good he had been previously. He also had Covid in the season just gone and missed some time because of that and didn't look good when he came back.

    I wouldn't rule him out of having a good season but its probably not all that likely either.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,737 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    eagle eye wrote: »
    There was clear evidence that there was no cheating, it was proven that the balls would naturally deflate that much in the weather. That evidence was ignored.

    So in this case something that shows he is more than likely innocent might be ignored by Goodell.

    No cheating ? I don’t want to go down a deflate gate rabbit hole but I will just say that what were the two patriots equipment lads doing taking footballs into a bathroom after they had been checked. It was ignored because there was evidence that meant it wasn’t relevant to why the footballs deflated the way they did.

    Edit: and why the hell are you bringing up deflategate and trying to compare it to the deshaun Watson situation ? Brady was found guilty and served a ban. Move on ffs the rest of had until you brought it up again.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,928 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Itssoeasy wrote:
    Brady was found guilty and served a ban.
    That's exactly why I'm bringing it up. Same thing could happen to Watson.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,012 ✭✭✭BizzyC


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    The fact they are growing so quickly means the lawyer is doing absolutely no research to ensure all/any are credible.

    The guy may be a clown as a person, but he's a serious piece of work as a lawyer.
    Civil cases are about perception as much as anything else, so he'll openly state how many women come forward because it adds to the "no smoke without fire" rhetoric.
    As long as he doesn't file on their behalf we won't know whether they were legit complaints or not, but advertising that they came to him helps drive perception in the cases he does file.

    So far he's filed on behalf of 3 women.
    We don't know what he'll do about the other 6 women yet, either he's still checking their stories or he's checked them and decided not to file - but he won't be telling us that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    BizzyC wrote: »
    The guy may be a clown as a person, but he's a serious piece of work as a lawyer.
    Civil cases are about perception as much as anything else, so he'll openly state how many women come forward because it adds to the "no smoke without fire" rhetoric.
    As long as he doesn't file on their behalf we won't know whether they were legit complaints or not, but advertising that they came to him helps drive perception in the cases he does file.

    So far he's filed on behalf of 3 women.
    We don't know what he'll do about the other 6 women yet, either he's still checking their stories or he's checked them and decided not to file - but he won't be telling us that.

    He is the epitome of the dirty, hypocritical US lawyer. He is out there condemning Watson for these accusations having spent years supporting, praising, and fundraising for Trump - who has had many more more much more credible accusations against him.

    Even if they file it means basically nothing regarding the credibility, as no one is under any real legal jeopardy at this point. If found to be untrue, he can say their filing was what they said to them while the women can say it wasn't and didn't read the filings before he submitted them.

    When it gets to court it all seems like it is 'he said, she said' so unless Watson has some kind of proof that he never had 1 on 1 sessions with them, there is no way to prove they are lying if that was the case. At minimum, he has shown himself to be a complete idiot to be getting massages from randomers on the internet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,012 ✭✭✭BizzyC


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    He is the epitome of the dirty, hypocritical US lawyer. He is out there condemning Watson for these accusations having spent years supporting, praising, and fundraising for Trump - who has had many more more much more credible accusations against him.

    Yes as I said, he's may be a clown of a person, but he's also serious a piece of work as a lawyer.
    He know's exactly what he's doing and is being very deliberate about how he goes about it.
    Foxtrol wrote: »
    Even if they file it means basically nothing regarding the credibility, as no one is under any real legal jeopardy at this point. If found to be untrue, he can say their filing was what they said to them while the women can say it wasn't and didn't read the filings before he submitted them.
    When it gets to court it all seems like it is 'he said, she said' so unless Watson has some kind of proof that he never had 1 on 1 sessions with them, there is no way to prove they are lying if that was the case. At minimum, he has shown himself to be a complete idiot to be getting massages from randomers on the internet.
    [/QUOTE]

    My point being he's not going to file something that's patently ridiculous or an easily disproved lie. Doing so would only diminish the value in having "multiple" counts against Watson.

    He'll only file the ones that Watson can't disprove outright, but mention the others to push opinion against him.
    Perception of the cases move from "he said, she said", to "he said, they said" without having to even discuss the ones he didn't see worthy of filing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,942 ✭✭✭el Fenomeno


    Apparently he (or his firm) are now representing 12 women - one of whom was only referred to Watson last week - and have "spoken" to another 10 - whatever the latter means.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Lawyer claimed that the Houston Police have been in touch with him which they later released a statement denying.

    I know it is tough to push back on these type of allegations in the current climate but if they are untrue Watson should be getting his story out faster rather than letting the clown fill the airwaves. Even if he gets cleared he is letting public opinion potentially turn against him.

    https://twitter.com/houstonpolice/status/1373043588431548416?s=20


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,928 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    It's hard to know what to believe. I'm very skeptical of the lawyer in question but there's a lot of accusers.
    Then you start to think about Watson really pushing hard to get out of town and wonder if this is the reason why.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭Christy42


    eagle eye wrote: »
    It's hard to know what to believe. I'm very skeptical of the lawyer in question but there's a lot of accusers.
    Then you start to think about Watson really pushing hard to get out of town and wonder if this is the reason why.

    Pretty sure they could make the accusations wherever he is. Plus if he did it then he presumably got away with it for a while to have this many accusers so I don't see why he thought he couldn't continue.

    I think everyone just wants to leave the Texans in general unless they struggle to get playing time/money elsewhere.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,112 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Ex-49er and NRL star Jarryd Hayne has been found guilty of sexual assault, he'll be sentenced in May and jail time is on the cards. He previously settled another case out of court from his time in San Fran.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/mar/22/jarryd-hayne-found-guilty-of-assaulting-a-woman-in-newcastle-in-2018
    After nearly 18 hours of deliberations that began last Wednesday, the Sydney district court jury on Monday found him not guilty of both counts of aggravated sexual intercourse without consent inflicting actual bodily harm.

    But Hayne was found guilty of two alternative counts of sexual intercourse without consent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,942 ✭✭✭el Fenomeno


    Another 2 lawsuits filed against Watson. Here's the claims from one of them. Spoilered as NSFW.
    "Plaintiff told Watson that his behavior the last time was inappropriate. Plaintiff recalls that Watson apologized and told her something to the effect that he had never been rejected by a woman before.

    Plaintiff informed Watson that she was a lesbian, so she was not interested in him and Watson agreed not to be inappropriate again. Plaintiff proceeded to give Watson the massage. Watson told Plaintiff that he only wanted his lower body massaged, so Plaintiff started off massaging the back of Watson’s quads.

    Watson insisted that he wanted Plaintiff to “go higher,” closer to his butt cheeks. Plaintiff went higher, but Watson was still not satisfied, and insisted that Plaintiff come even higher Plaintiff was confused and did not understand. Plaintiff assumed that Watson wanted his back massaged, so she proceeded to massage his back.

    Watson then grabbed Plaintiff’s hands and placed them on his buttocks and moved them around in a circular motion. Watson asked Plaintiff to use more oil and he then put Plaintiff’s hands inside his anus. Plaintiff was shocked and confused. Watson told Plaintiff “I can tell you are a lesbian because you are so good with your hands.”

    Plaintiff became irritated and uncomfortable, but she did not want to get in trouble with her manager. Plaintiff told Watson to lay on his back, and that was when Watson became even more aggressive, and started commenting on Plaintiff’s body. Watson then pulled Plaintiff towards him and told her “I want to cum,” Plaintiff was confused and told Watson that she does not perform those kinds of services.

    Watson responded saying that he receives that kind of treatment at the spas that at where he usually gets his massages. Watson said the other therapists make him “cum.” Watson continued harassing Plaintiff and asked her to kiss him and suck on his chest.

    Watson asked if Plaintiff was really a lesbian, Plaintiff ignored his advances and told him to stop acting like a pervert. At this point, Plaintiff was embarrassed and humiliated, but she did not want to lose her job. Plaintiff just wanted Watson to leave, but she was scared.

    She continued massaging his chest, Watson then exposed himself and told Plaintiff to massage his penis area. Plaintiff declined and covered his penis. Watson asked why Plaintiff did not want to touch his penis. He then asked her to perform oral sex on him and to pretend that he was a woman, since she had never been with a man before.

    Watson became even more aggressive and forced Plaintiff’s mouth onto his penis. Watson told her “there is a first time for everything.” Plaintiff was so scared and distraught, she was sweating and nervous. She was alone at the spa and feared scared for her life. Watson then proceeded to wrap his legs around Plaintiff’s neck and told her to kiss him and to spit on his penis.

    Plaintiff declined and he released her head. Watson went even further and began masturbating in front of Plaintiff and he ejaculated shortly after. Plaintiff was humiliated and horrified. The NFL is notorious for a culture that fosters sexual harassment and sexual assault."

    Terrible if true, but that "pretend I'm a woman" line is.... well, it's something....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,969 ✭✭✭✭alchemist33


    There may well be something in this but there are elements of that story that are ... well... anatomically questionable. And the last line about the NFL is funny, like something Saul Goodman would come up with.

    Again, not saying the allegations don't have substance, but bits of them are odd.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,928 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Those details shouldn't be released unless he loses a case. This is trial by media and the accused has a hard time clearing his name. Even if he does clear his name there's many who remain skeptical afterwards.


  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Jasper Fit Pedestrian


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Those details shouldn't be released unless he loses a case. This is trial by media and the accused has a hard time clearing his name. Even if he does clear his name there's many who remain skeptical afterwards.

    Ya but they will throw stuff out to try to get watson to pay them off. The american system is terrible


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,012 ✭✭✭BizzyC


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Those details shouldn't be released unless he loses a case. This is trial by media and the accused has a hard time clearing his name. Even if he does clear his name there's many who remain skeptical afterwards.

    A criminal case wont ever work against him as there is no physical evidence of his conduct.
    He's innocent until proven guilty.
    The only kind of justice that can be had without physical evidence to bring criminal charges is to destroy his career and public image.


    Now if he's actually innocent then it would be a tragedy, but it's getting harder to believe that all of these women are banding together in a collective lie among strangers....


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    BizzyC wrote: »
    A criminal case wont ever work against him as there is no physical evidence of his conduct.
    He's innocent until proven guilty.
    The only kind of justice that can be had without physical evidence to bring criminal charges is to destroy his career and public image.

    Its not CSI, you don't need a scrap of physical evidence to make a criminal case against someone.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,794 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    Some job getting two hands of someone willing inside your anus let alone someone unwilling while you're face down


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,012 ✭✭✭BizzyC


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Its not CSI, you don't need a scrap of physical evidence to make a criminal case against someone.

    Neither party is going to agree on the details of what happened, so then it's his word vs. hers.
    No law enforcement has been involved at all in any of the cases so far, there are no witnesses to any of the alleged acts, all of this is hearsay and wont hold up for a criminal conviction as he cant be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt....

    Until they have a witness or something concrete they can present as evidence, there wont be any criminal proceedings.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,613 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    BizzyC wrote: »
    Neither party is going to agree on the details of what happened, so then it's his word vs. hers.
    No law enforcement has been involved at all in any of the cases so far, there are no witnesses to any of the alleged acts, all of this is hearsay and wont hold up for a criminal conviction as he cant be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt....

    Until they have a witness or something concrete they can present as evidence, there wont be any criminal proceedings.
    More like his word vs. hers and hers and hers and hers and hers and hers and hers and hers and hers and hers


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,928 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    BizzyC wrote:
    Neither party is going to agree on the details of what happened, so then it's his word vs. hers. No law enforcement has been involved at all in any of the cases so far, there are no witnesses to any of the alleged acts, all of this is hearsay and wont hold up for a criminal conviction as he cant be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt....
    If you have multiple complainants of the same thing you can put a case together including them all with multiple counts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    BizzyC wrote: »
    Neither party is going to agree on the details of what happened, so then it's his word vs. hers.
    No law enforcement has been involved at all in any of the cases so far, there are no witnesses to any of the alleged acts, all of this is hearsay and wont hold up for a criminal conviction as he cant be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt....

    Until they have a witness or something concrete they can present as evidence, there wont be any criminal proceedings.

    Hearsay means the witness is reporting something they heard happened. In these cases the witness is reporting their own alleged experience so it's not hearsay.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,012 ✭✭✭BizzyC


    Shedite27 wrote: »
    More like his word vs. hers and hers and hers and hers and hers and hers and hers and hers and hers and hers
    eagle eye wrote: »
    If you have multiple complainants of the same thing you can put a case together including them all with multiple counts.

    Yes, but multiple counts of what?
    None of these women went to the police, and still have not gone to the police.
    Right now there is nothing to base a criminal investigation on.
    Hearsay means the witness is reporting something they heard happened. In these cases the witness is reporting their own alleged experience so it's not hearsay.

    True, wrong choice of words.

    Texas law still has a requirement for corroboration of testimony on order for a victim of sexual assault to act as sole witness to the crime.
    That corroboration has to take the form of evidence supporting the testimony or "outcry".
    I don't know all the details, but I think essentially they'd have to have reported the crime within a certain time frame for their testimony alone to be admissible.


    Other than wanting money, it's hard to understand why they wouldn't be going down the criminal route if they had evidence or admissible testimony for even some of these women.

    My assumption is that most of these women have missed their opportunity to satisfy the "outcry" requirement so Buzbee knows they don't have enough to pursue criminal prosecution.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,613 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    BizzyC wrote: »
    Yes, but multiple counts of what?
    None of these women went to the police, and still have not gone to the police.
    Right now there is nothing to base a criminal investigation on.
    Buzzbee said he's packaging together the cases he's been present with by clients, to hand them over to police in the next few days.

    Also, an NFL conviction has a lower guilt threshold than courts. Don't think Ray Rice ever was criminally convicted, but was suspended indefinitely and never played again


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    That Ray rice thing only happened because of a viral video. His initial punishment was 2 games or something like that.


  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Jasper Fit Pedestrian


    Plus the nfl won't just take the side of these women with no proof that creates an insane precident


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Plus the nfl won't just take the side of these women with no proof that creates an insane precident

    More so in the current situation where the statements made hold basically zero legal threat to the accusers if they are fabricated.

    If any of this is spitefulness from Texans ownership then they've likely just hurt themselves more - Watson will likely now not play for them and his trade value is in the toilet for the extended period that this will drag out.


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