What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

User142 · 22-03-2021 09:25PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

It's now being reported Pfizer are pushing back on threats from the EU regarding vaccine supplies.As this is the second major pharmaceutical company the EU appears to be attempting to intimidate(following AstraZeneca),is it possible the EU have handled their whole vaccine strategy badly?

Link? I can't find any stories about this.

odyssey06 · 22-03-2021 09:29PM

At least the UK are using their AZ vaccines as fast as they can. Given the extent of links between Ireland and UK I would rather see it used in UK than in an unused US stockpile or not taken up in France etc due to its "quasi ineffectiveness".

22-03-2021 09:47PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Instead of the uk being on 50 doses per 100 and the eu on 13, we would all be on 18

Unlikely.

Pete_Cavan · 22-03-2021 10:00PM

Danzy wrote: »

My point is why are the EU relying on AZ so much, see why didn't it support the multiple global leaders it has, tell them money was no object, like the Brits and Yanks did with their key ones.

The EU should have been and could have been leading the world in vaccinations and donated vaccinations.

It had the opportunity to flood the market with vaccines, it hadn't the will, so we are reduced to listening about trade blockage, etc etc.

The EU did support vaccine development, they were also a significant contributor to the Jenner Institute which developed the Oxford vaccine despite what some would have you believe.

What global leaders did the Brits support? AZ are hardly a global leader. It would be interesting to see how many doses AZ have produced in the UK because the UK seems to be reliant on imports (first from Halix, then SII) for supply.

Danzy · 22-03-2021 10:16PM

Aegir wrote: »

Where would we be if the UK did nothing and threw it’s lot in with the EU programme?

The same. If the UK threw in and it's own agency drove planning, support and procurement then it would probably have meant a much more advanced rollout for all.

It's lack of will, luke warm attitude towards vaccines, no real urgency in planning that has the EU vaccination program in the toilet.

AllForIt · 23-03-2021 05:23AM

murphaph wrote: »

"Community" as in, European Community.

The rest of your post suggests we should have put our fate in the hands of the neighbours next door. I might remind you that those neighbours have a historical tendency to not give a flying f**k about us and even as recently as this year have been threatening our place in the single market by breaching the protocol on Northern Ireland in the Withdrawal Agreement. This is the second time our neighbours have broken international law in respect of the protocol in 4 months. They can't be trusted as far as they can be thrown.

Arlene Foster isn't the PM and anything she proposes is to make herself feel better about the union. It's purely political for her DUP electorate so they can feel all superior to the poor feckers in the south. They get precious few opportunities these days so they have to make hay while the sun shines I suppose.

The UK has been hoarding vaccine in cahoots with AZ. They have deliberately failed to apply until now for authorisation to supply the EU from the Halix plant in the Netherlands, knowing that the EMA still has to check the application carefully before approving. They have completely failed to deliver a a single dose from either of their UK plants, despite them being listed in the EU contract. The EU based Pfizer plant supplied the UK with their first 10 million doses of anything. In hindsight the EU should not have trusted AZ/the UK and should have not signed any contract with AZ and should not have allowed any Biontech product to go to the UK but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

So, you think we should have trusted the UK when even the EU hasn't been supplied from the AZ plants in the UK, despite having a very similar contract to the UK and that contract being dated a day earlier than the UK's and having provided AZ with €400m lst year to help develop manufacturing capacity and having provided the lion's share of the Jenner Institute's (where the AZ jab was developed) funding right up until the end of last year?

If the EU hasn't gotten a drop of vaccine out of an AZ UK plant, despite all the above, you think Ireland would have done better going directly to the source? You think a few outraged headlines in the Daily Express about "Paddies getting our vaccine" wouldn't have seen the supply shut off straight away? We would have been completely at the mercy of this country that has acted in nothing but bad faith towards us recently (there was a gap of a decade or two before that where we had good relations and then hundreds of years of bad relations again before that)

Good luck trusting them.

Yes I do think we should trust them on this one, because it is in their interest, because we are the only country outside of their own that is geographically connected whilst the EU continent countries are faced with a very serious third wave. So it is in the UK's interest that Ireland is vaccinated on a par with their own. You'd concur with the cynicism of that point wouldn't you since your're doing extreme cynicism yourself.

Probes · 23-03-2021 06:07AM

What have they done now?

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/niaid-statement-astrazeneca-vaccine

JacksonHeightsOwn · 23-03-2021 06:40AM

Probes wrote: »

What have they done now?

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/niaid-statement-astrazeneca-vaccine

I'm convinced astrazeneca have been making a balls and dragging their heels on everything they've done outside of the UK so most of their vaccines can go to the British

How can a big pharma company be so bloody haphazard with their paperwork........ It can't be coincidence

Probes · 23-03-2021 06:44AM

They can’t be, their brand is getting trashed globally. Unfortunately it seems like they are either incompetent or dishonest, or perhaps both.

Pete_Cavan · 23-03-2021 06:51AM

Every week they seem to sink to a new low of incompetence. We'll probably have someone telling us yhat this is part of the plan to get all those stockpiled dose in the USA released.

AllForIt · 23-03-2021 06:55AM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Every week they seem to sink to a new low of incompetence. We'll probably have someone telling us yhat this is part of the plan to get all those stockpiled dose in the USA released.

Every week the UK vaccine rollout is miles ahead of the EU.

HA! Something to be said for nationalism after all.

Pete_Cavan · 23-03-2021 07:00AM

AllForIt wrote: »

Every week the UK vaccine rollout is miles ahead of the EU.

HA! Something to be said for nationalism after all.

Is there any evidence that UK nationalism has made a significant contribution to their vaccine rollout? They seem very reliant on imported doses. Nationalism only works if those you rely on aren't practicing it too.

Danzy · 23-03-2021 07:01AM

chrisbonnie wrote: »

I'm convinced astrazeneca have been making a balls and dragging their heels on everything they've done outside of the UK so most of their vaccines can go to the British

How can a big pharma company be so bloody haphazard with their paperwork........ It can't be coincidence

They are small enough and in vaccine terms, they are not players at all.

They were picked because the UK wanted it's population vaccinated quickly. Other countries and regions view it as less urgent.

AZ certainly have made it awkward.

Danzy · 23-03-2021 07:04AM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Is there any evidence that UK nationalism has made a significant contribution to their vaccine rollout? They seem very reliant on imported doses. Nationalism only works if those you rely on aren't practicing it too.

Is bothering to oeganize and plan now being called nationalism?

Giving it away at cost to the Serum Institute of India, is allowing them to make 3 million vaccines a day for the world's poorest. That's going to be quite a figure after 12 months.

The EU isn't really vaccinating itself or the poorest countries either, that's solidarity I suppose.

Tyrone212 · 23-03-2021 07:10AM

America has millions of the Oxford vaccine. When do they expire and could that happen before it gets approved there. It'll take what another 2 months or more for approval over there as it stands?

Danzy · 23-03-2021 07:13AM

Tyrone212 wrote: »

America has millions of the Oxford vaccine. When do they expire and could that happen before it gets approved there. It'll take what another 2 months or more for approval over there as it stands?

Some orders have a year to use from manufacturer.

Thats not answering your question but it probably means that they won't Go to waste.

Pete_Cavan · 23-03-2021 07:17AM

Danzy wrote: »

Is bothering to oeganize and plan now being called nationalism?

Giving it away at cost to the Serum Institute of India, is allowing them to make 3 million vaccines a day for the world's poorest.

The EU isn't really vaccinating itself or the poorest countries either, that's solidarity I suppose.

What organising and planning? AZ have diverted millions of doses from the EU funded Halix plant, then another 5 million from SII to the UK. This along with imported supplies from Pfizer has allowed the UK to get ahead with vaccinations. Without Halix and then India blocking the export of another 5m doses, the UK is about to slow down.

23-03-2021 07:21AM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

What organising and planning? AZ have diverted millions of doses from the EU funded Halix plant, then another 5 million from SII to the UK. This along with imported supplies from Pfizer has allowed the UK to get ahead with vaccinations. Without Halix and then India blocking the export of another 5m doses, the UK is about to slow down.

What EU funding did the Halix plant get? It was part of the original vaccine alliance and all of the early funding came from the uk government.

IRISHSPORTSGUY · 23-03-2021 07:25AM

Probes wrote: »

What have they done now?

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/niaid-statement-astrazeneca-vaccine

Surely just a coincidence that means big American pharmaceutical companies Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson get a bigger market share. We know those guys have no lobbying power in Washington.

drunkmonkey · 23-03-2021 08:01AM

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Surely just a coincidence that means big American pharmaceutical companies Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson get a bigger market share. We know those guys have no lobbying power in Washington.

It looks like they mislead them on efficiency data, certainly not appearing as a political stroke to benefit other manufacturers.

"“The last thing this vaccine needs is more concern when we kind of thought we were at that point now where we’d put to bed all the other concerns, and then a new one pops up the same day,” said Paul Griffin, an associate professor of medicine at the University of Queensland in Brisbane, who is conducting clinical studies in Australia on four Covid-19 vaccine candidates.

“It was referring to outdated information, and it’s kind of hard to imagine how outdated information could be included when these vaccines are all fairly new,” said Prof Griffin, who is an infectious-disease physician and microbiologist. “The impression I got was that it seemed to be something very significant they were alluding to.” – Bloomberg

AllForIt · 23-03-2021 08:09AM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Is there any evidence that UK nationalism has made a significant contribution to their vaccine rollout? They seem very reliant on imported doses. Nationalism only works if those you rely on aren't practicing it too.

Ah I was just winding you up about the nationalism thing. I wouldn't have done so if I didn't think this thread is just an excuse for another anti-Brexit, anti-Tory, anti-English thread with the usual suspects flying around here.

Have fun.

Stark · 23-03-2021 08:28AM

"outdated data". Wonder if they're trying to get it approved based on data collected before spread of variants.

dogbert27 · 23-03-2021 08:30AM

AstraZeneca telling the EU that the UK contract prevents them from exporting from the UK and that one of the two UK sites is not fully operational.

Two factories in Britain run by Oxford Biomedica and Cobra Biologics are also listed as suppliers to the EU in the contract with AstraZeneca, but no vaccine has so far been shipped from Britain to the EU, despite Brussels' earlier requests.

Officials have said that Cobra is not fully operational. AstraZeneca told EU officials that the UK is using a clause in its supply contract that prevents export of its vaccines until the British market is fully served, EU officials said.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/eu-rebuffs-uk-calls-to-ship-astrazeneca-covid-vaccines-from-europe-2021-03-21

People keep dragging this down to the UK vs EU but it's AZ as a private company that should be getting attacked here for over promising and under delivering.

They received 1.2 billion dollars last May from the US. They received 336 million euro as an advanced down payment from the EU. This was for:

The newly unveiled down payment will help fund development and liability costs on AstraZeneca's end, the commission said in its release.

“In order to compensate for such high risks taken by manufacturers, the Advanced Purchase Agreements provide for member states to indemnify the manufacturer for liabilities incurred under certain conditions,” it said, adding that "liability still remains with the companies."

https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/az-nets-396m-downpayment-for-300m-plus-eu-vaccine-doses

AZ were telling the US in May that they would have shots ready in September for them.

murphaph · 23-03-2021 09:13AM

AZ bit off more than they could chew and then appear to have signed contradictory contracts (can't sign a "best efforts" contract with the EU and then or indeed before, sign an exclusive until x contract with another party. AZ clearly can't make their best efforts to deliver to the EU if they have committed themselves to delivering elusively to another party. That's the sort of information you would need to disclose to the other party.

The UK government and AZ have known all this since the start though, yet hoped the redacted bits of the contract would not get out. Disingenuous behaviour in he extreme. They are unable to just tell the truth. AZ vaccines should not be exported from the EU to the UK or other countries with manufacturing capability as long as the EU contract remains only partially fulfilled.

The UK government almost certainly made it a precondition in their arrangement with AZ that the UK must be served first. AZ knew this before signing a deal with the EU. AZ got greedy and should have simply made it clear to the EU that the UK had priority. The EU could have then moved earlier to help increase production capacity of the Biontech vaccine.

The eastern European states especially would have been attracted to the lower price of the AZ vaccine. Can't blame them for that when their GDPs are lower and they were led to believe by AZ that they could deliver.

23-03-2021 09:14AM

dogbert27 wrote: »

AstraZeneca telling the EU that the UK contract prevents them from exporting from the UK and that one of the two UK sites is not fully operational.

Two factories in Britain run by Oxford Biomedica and Cobra Biologics are also listed as suppliers to the EU in the contract with AstraZeneca, but no vaccine has so far been shipped from Britain to the EU, despite Brussels' earlier requests.

Officials have said that Cobra is not fully operational. AstraZeneca told EU officials that the UK is using a clause in its supply contract that prevents export of its vaccines until the British market is fully served, EU officials said.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/eu-rebuffs-uk-calls-to-ship-astrazeneca-covid-vaccines-from-europe-2021-03-21

People keep dragging this down to the UK vs EU but it's AZ as a private company that should be getting attacked here for over promising and under delivering.

They received 1.2 billion dollars last May from the US. They received 336 million euro as an advanced down payment from the EU. This was for:

The newly unveiled down payment will help fund development and liability costs on AstraZeneca's end, the commission said in its release.

“In order to compensate for such high risks taken by manufacturers, the Advanced Purchase Agreements provide for member states to indemnify the manufacturer for liabilities incurred under certain conditions,” it said, adding that "liability still remains with the companies."

https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/az-nets-396m-downpayment-for-300m-plus-eu-vaccine-doses

AZ were telling the US in May that they would have shots ready in September for them.

This press release pretty much sums up what the UK government did do and what the EU should have done, but didn't. https://www.vmicuk.com/pressrelease/vmic-equipment-mhra

One customer is taking the approach of setting up suitable manufacturing facilities and ensuring they work, the other is bunging a wad of upfront cash at them and saying "sort it out". Which approach is the most likely to work?

There is an option in the EU/AZ agreement for the EU to identify suitable "Contract Manufacturing Organizations" and for AZ to then contract with those CMOs to produce the vaccine. The question needs to be asked, has this happened and if not, why not?

23-03-2021 09:18AM

murphaph wrote: »

AZ bit off more than they could chew and then appear to have signed contradictory contracts (can't sign a "best efforts" contract with the EU and then or indeed before, sign an exclusive until x contract with another party. AZ clearly can't make their best efforts to deliver to the EU if they have committed themselves to delivering elusively to another party. That's the sort of information you would need to disclose to the other party.

that hasn't happened though, so it is irrelevant.

murphaph wrote: »

The UK government and AZ have known all this since the start though, yet hoped the redacted bits of the contract would not get out. Disingenuous behaviour in he extreme. They are unable to just tell the truth. AZ vaccines should not be exported from the EU to the UK or other countries with manufacturing capability as long as the EU contract remains only partially fulfilled.

this has nothing to do with the UK government, however much you would like it to be.

murphaph wrote: »

The UK government almost certainly made it a precondition in their arrangement with AZ that the UK must be served first. AZ knew this before signing a deal with the EU. AZ got greedy and should have simply made it clear to the EU that the UK had priority. The EU could have then moved earlier to help increase production capacity of the Biontech vaccine.

they got greedy producing a vaccine they make no profit from? how does that work then?

CIARAN_BOYLE · 23-03-2021 09:30AM

Aegir wrote: »

they got greedy producing a vaccine they make no profit from? how does that work then?

Reputationally perhaps.

We will save the world and make all these vaccines. Just agree to buy them.

Everyone agreed and put reliance on them.

They didn't manage to do what they promised and now everyone is crying out Astra Zenaca you lied to us.

Joe_ Public · 23-03-2021 09:53AM

AZ had to agree to selling the vaccine at cost because that was the price those who developed it imposed. They already announced a very tidy profit a few weeks back, so maybe they're not simply the knights in shining armour they're being portrayed. The at-cost stipulation only applies until the pandemic is declared over, which could be as early as July 1, so after that they will be free to reset the price themselves. And the looking after the whole world claim is somewhat weakened when you see the inflated prices african countries have been quoted, uganda for example had to pay €7 a dose, twice that of uk or eu.

Oxford deserve a huge amount of credit, just seems a shame their original aim to have this as an open license vaccine couldn't be ultimately fulfilled.

23-03-2021 09:55AM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Reputationally perhaps.

We will save the world and make all these vaccines. Just agree to buy them.

Everyone agreed and put reliance on them.

They didn't manage to do what they promised and now everyone is crying out Astra Zenaca you lied to us.

they are producing millions though, all over the world.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/03/1086302
https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/02/1085852
https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/02/1085572
https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/arrival-first-wave-consignment-covax-covid-19-vaccine-doses-state-palestine

23-03-2021 09:56AM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Oxford deserve a huge amount of credit, just seems a shame their original aim to have this as an open license vaccine couldn't be ultimately fulfilled.

can you give me a list of the companies banging down the door wanting to produce this?

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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