What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

Danzy

They are right to vaccinate themselves first. They would be stupid not to.

The EU didn't even bother to try that.

I far from think the Brits are heroes. There was an ungenerous moment at the peak there for that I hoped it would carry alot more of them. We are all friends now etc etc.

Simple business experience will let us know now that the ones who will do it globally are the ones who did it nationally.

Are ye so obsessed with Brexit that a massive failure to plan a way out of the biggest economic, social and health crisis in a century is overlooked.

A 4th wave in much of Europe looks likely this fall. We'll be ok here by then.

The damage done to the EU economy from a 2nd lost Summer is hard to imagine.

Certainly many multiples of the investment and effort last year that could have made the EU a leader in vaccinations.

Vaccine skepticism is at the heart of this and that was in Europe long before the EU existed.

Pablo Escobar

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

The UK is only an EU protectionist decision away from a very big problem. That decision will be made this week.

The delusion is strong in the UK.

If the Eu block Pfizer deliveries to the UK, then the UK would be entitled to block deliveries from Croda in Yorkshire, would the not?

Then no one has any vaccines.

Red Silurian

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So then, what's the rush?

The Pandemic...

Pete_Cavan

Danzy wrote: »

They are right to vaccinate themselves first. They would be stupid not to.

So when its the UK preventing export of vaccines they are right to vaccinate themselves first but the same doesn't apply to the EU.

No doubt you will go back to the UK funding vaccine capacity there so are entitled to the benefits of that, which is fair enough but the EU also funded vaccine capacity but AZ have created a situation where they are denying the EU the benefits of their investment;

https://www.ft.com/content/8e2e994e-9750-4de1-9cbc-31becd2ae0a8

NeuralNetwork

They didn’t “turn their noses up” at anything. It went though EMA approval and was approved and fairly early on. It’s still not FDA approved.

The EMA has been very positive about the product and the EU bought millions upon millions of doses.

But sure let’s just go off on nationalistic rants.

It was “embraced from the start” but it failed to deliver the ordered doses which is why there’s a mess.

I’m sick of the whole lot of it - toxic politicians, trolls & gutter press stirring the pot.

Tippbhoy1

Widescreen wrote: »

EU turned their nose up at the AZ vaccine at the start, might seem simplistic, but that is part of the problem why we cant get it now.


Now the Yanks have approved it and its 100% effective against serious illness/hospitalisation. Everyone will want it now!

As Taoiseach said at the start AZ was a game changer-it would have been if we had embraced it from the start and probably would have got more supplies

Now we will be far****g around for months..

What a load of rubbish - might have got more supplies, I've heard it all now.

Tippbhoy1

Aegir wrote: »

If the Eu block Pfizer deliveries to the UK, then the UK would be entitled to block deliveries from Croda in Yorkshire, would the not?

Then no one has any vaccines.

I would say the majority of the focus will be on blocking AZ, but it could turn into a complete ban of all types of vaccines depending on how this plays out. If the EU ban Pfizer into the UK, I think it's fair enough to reciprocate in principle, not so much if it's due to an AZ only ban.

1. If the EU blocked Pfizer deliveries to the UK (and others), the UK can block Pfizer ingredients to the EU. Then no one gets any Pfizer.
2. If the EU block AZ to the UK(and others) (which is effectively where things are at the minute), then the UK could block Pfizer ingredients to the EU, then no one gets any Pfizer.
3. If the EU block AZ to the UK (and others), then the UK could just accept it, and the EU still supply deliveries of Pfizer to the UK

I am not clear what the lead time is in terms of manufacturing, but blocking ingredients has an impact down stream, but not immediately. Blocking vaccines has an immediate impact. Also, worth pointing out the Croda facility is one of a number of sources of the lipids, not the sole source. Also, the new Biontech facility in Marburg has no UK dependency.

robinph

Tippbhoy1 wrote: »

I am not clear what the lead time is in terms of manufacturing, but blocking ingredients has an impact down stream, but not immediately. Blocking vaccines has an immediate impact.

Any bans are just going to result in a weeks worth of angry headlines at most.

The UK might miss out on a couple of days worth of lorries taking the Eurotunnel, but by the time those make it to getting into peoples arms a couple of weeks later it will not make any difference to the numbers.
A block on deliveries from the UK will result in zero change to what gets delivered as by the time everyone has shouted about it across the Channel for a few days it will all be resolved and back to normal again with maybe a delivery arriving a day late for Pfizer.

is_that_so

Tippbhoy1 wrote: »

I would say the majority of the focus will be on blocking AZ, but it could turn into a complete ban of all types of vaccines depending on how this plays out. If the EU ban Pfizer into the UK, I think it's fair enough to reciprocate in principle, not so much if it's due to an AZ only ban.

1. If the EU blocked Pfizer deliveries to the UK (and others), the UK can block Pfizer ingredients to the EU. Then no one gets any Pfizer.
2. If the EU block AZ to the UK(and others) (which is effectively where things are at the minute), then the UK could block Pfizer ingredients to the EU, then no one gets any Pfizer.
3. If the EU block AZ to the UK (and others), then the UK could just accept it, and the EU still supply deliveries of Pfizer to the UK

I am not clear what the lead time is in terms of manufacturing, but blocking ingredients has an impact down stream, but not immediately. Blocking vaccines has an immediate impact. Also, worth pointing out the Croda facility is one of a number of sources of the lipids, not the sole source. Also, the new Biontech facility in Marburg has no UK dependency.

They really want the threat out there anyway. There's no question it's squarely aimed at AZ. I don't see them as keen to use it immediately but if this promised delivery of AZ doesn't happen in the next two weeks they probably will.

Melanchthon

If the EU block Pfizer exports, and as far as I understand it, it's not the EU itself that will give the actual order to block exports it will be individual countries, I think it would have big long term impacts on future investment into pharma in those countries.
Astra Zeneca would be different as there is a argument they failed to uphold contracts but Pfizer is a different case and they invested in EU based production because of the strident rejection of vaccine nationalism by key EU figures last year.

I know the response will be "what about the USA" but it's not comparable for two reasons, 1 The US was pretty open about what they were going to do and 2 the US threw huge amounts of money at companies to help set up plants and RnD, I am not certain of this but it's possible a single company like Moderna who got 1.5 billion dollars quickly received more cash earlier than the entire EU funding, the difference really is vast.

is_that_so

Melanchthon wrote: »

If the EU block Pfizer exports, and as far as I understand it, it's not the EU itself that will give the actual order to block exports it will be individual countries, I think it would have big long term impacts on future investment into pharma in those countries.
Astra Zeneca would be different as there is a argument they failed to uphold contracts but Pfizer is a different case and they invested in EU based production because of the strident rejection of vaccine nationalism by 'key EU figures last year.

I know the response will be "what about the USA" but it's not comparable for two reasons, 1 The US was pretty open about what they were going to do and 2 the US threw huge amounts of money at companies to help set up plants and RnD, I am not certain of this but it's possible a single company like Moderna who got 1.5 billion dollars quickly received more cash earlier than the entire EU funding, the difference really is vast.

Pfizer shouldn't be affected at all, not with the new BioNTech plant in Marburg up and running and they have promised supplies ahead of time that will fill the inevitable AZ gap.

Tippbhoy1

Tippbhoy1 wrote: »

I would say the majority of the focus will be on blocking AZ, but it could turn into a complete ban of all types of vaccines depending on how this plays out. If the EU ban Pfizer into the UK, I think it's fair enough to reciprocate in principle, not so much if it's due to an AZ only ban.

1. If the EU blocked Pfizer deliveries to the UK (and others), the UK can block Pfizer ingredients to the EU. Then no one gets any Pfizer.
2. If the EU block AZ to the UK(and others) (which is effectively where things are at the minute), then the UK could block Pfizer ingredients to the EU, then no one gets any Pfizer.
3. If the EU block AZ to the UK (and others), then the UK could just accept it, and the EU still supply deliveries of Pfizer to the UK

I am not clear what the lead time is in terms of manufacturing, but blocking ingredients has an impact down stream, but not immediately. Blocking vaccines has an immediate impact. Also, worth pointing out the Croda facility is one of a number of sources of the lipids, not the sole source. Also, the new Biontech facility in Marburg has no UK dependency.

the UK received 4m doses of the AZ vaccine late last year, after then I'm not aware that any have come from within the EU, so blocking export of that tot he UK would be irrelevant and highly unlikely that the UK would reciprocate.

The Pfizer vaccine is on track, so the EU blocking exports of that to the UK, would be little more than vaccine nationalism and the UK would most likely retaliate.

What will happen though, is that in May (fingers crossed) the Novavax vaccine will be approved and doses will start to be shipped from North east England all over europe, so the EU would be able to show that their tough talking made the UK sit up and start exporting vaccines.

The whole thing is just political willy waving, the UK and the EU are not going to be banning exports from one to the other. With the highly integrated supply chains that go in to this, it doesn't help anyone.

Elessar

Aegir wrote: »

the UK received 4m doses of the AZ vaccine late last year, after then I'm not aware that any have come from within the EU, so blocking export of that tot he UK would be irrelevant and highly unlikely that the UK would reciprocate.

From The Irish Times:

Since February 1st, 41 million doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine have been sent from the EU to 33 countries, the largest chunk of which was sent to the UK, while some were sent to the US, which has an export ban on Covid vaccines.

It's a complete mockery of the EU. The export ban will only affect suppliers not adhering to their contracts. So only AZ at the minute.

I find it ironic that the UK are insisting they get the jabs from the Halix plant and publicly shaming the EU for the blockage, when the EU is just doing exactly what the Brits are doing - putting their own people first.

murphaph

Widescreen wrote: »

EU turned their nose up at the AZ vaccine at the start, might seem simplistic, but that is part of the problem why we cant get it now.


Now the Yanks have approved it and its 100% effective against serious illness/hospitalisation. Everyone will want it now!

As Taoiseach said at the start AZ was a game changer-it would have been if we had embraced it from the start and probably would have got more supplies

Now we will be far****g around for months..

What a load of falsehoods in one post. The EU not only didn't turn its nose up at AZ, it was the main source of funding for the institute that developed it. It also pumped €300m into AZ to assist in production capacity improvements last summer already.

And it is not 100% effective against the South African variant. It actually offers no protection against mild and moderate cases. SA halted their AZ rollout because of that. If the SA variant takes hold in the UK they are in for an interesting time. Hopefully they keep a lid on it. So far they have but it's accounting for a fifth of cases in France.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Aegir wrote: »

The whole thing is just political willy waving, the UK and the EU are not going to be banning exports from one to the other. With the highly integrated supply chains that go in to this, it doesn't help anyone.

Theres a Dutch factory that supposed has 10 million doses of AZ in storage awaiting ema approval for the factory.

The British are saying that the factory is named in their contract with AZ and the 10 million should be shipped to the UK today and the only reason it isn't is the EU vaccine ban.

AZ haven't even applied to ship the doses to the UK and has promised the doses to the EU when the factory is approved.

lawrencesummers

The obvious thing to do is to ship enough to every country to cover everybody that’s over 85 yr old first.

Then get back to the political bickering and embarrassing ****e that’s happening currently.

murphaph

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Theres a Dutch factory that supposed has 10 million doses of AZ in storage awaiting ema approval for the factory.

The British are saying that the factory is named in their contract with AZ and the 10 million should be shipped to the UK today and the only reason it isn't is the EU vaccine ban.

AZ haven't even applied to ship the doses to the UK and has promised the doses to the EU when the factory is approved.

That's the factory AZ stalled on getting EMA approval for so it could ship vaccines abroad from it instead.

AZ are absolute gangsters.

votecounts

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Theres a Dutch factory that supposed has 10 million doses of AZ in storage awaiting ema approval for the factory.

The British are saying that the factory is named in their contract with AZ and the 10 million should be shipped to the UK today and the only reason it isn't is the EU vaccine ban.

AZ haven't even applied to ship the doses to the UK and has promised the doses to the EU when the factory is approved.

Isn't that the plant where AZ have not even apllied for a licence to supply the EU, thus they can only supply the UK.

CIARAN_BOYLE

votecounts wrote: »

Isn't that the plant where AZ have not even apllied for a licence to supply the EU, thus they can only supply the UK.

They've applied for a license now. AZ are expecting approval on 25 March.

They've also promised the EU big shipments late March from vaccines in storage there.

Elessar

Elessar wrote: »

From The Irish Times:


It's a complete mockery of the EU. The export ban will only affect suppliers not adhering to their contracts. So only AZ at the minute.

I find it ironic that the UK are insisting they get the jabs from the Halix plant and publicly shaming the EU for the blockage, when the EU is just doing exactly what the Brits are doing - putting their own people first.

Every other news source is reporting this

EU-based manufacturers have shipped 41 million vaccine doses to 33 countries since early February, von der Leyen said, making the bloc one of the world's biggest export regions for Covid-19 vaccines.

https://www.livemint.com/news/world/fulfil-contract-with-europe-first-or-we-can-ban-covid-vaccine-exports-eu-chief-to-astrazeneca-11616242714151.html
https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-eu-not-ready-to-share-covid-vaccines-with-poorer-countries/a-56944274
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0320/1205117-astrazeneca-europe/

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Theres a Dutch factory that supposed has 10 million doses of AZ in storage awaiting ema approval for the factory.

The British are saying that the factory is named in their contract with AZ and the 10 million should be shipped to the UK today and the only reason it isn't is the EU vaccine ban.

AZ haven't even applied to ship the doses to the UK and has promised the doses to the EU when the factory is approved.

supposedly?

somewhere within all the political bull**** is the truth I guess

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0322/1205344-astrazeneca/

Pete_Cavan

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

So when its the UK preventing export of vaccines they are right to vaccinate themselves first but the same doesn't apply to the EU.

No doubt you will go back to the UK funding vaccine capacity there so are entitled to the benefits of that, which is fair enough but the EU also funded vaccine capacity but AZ have created a situation where they are denying the EU the benefits of their investment;

https://www.ft.com/content/8e2e994e-9750-4de1-9cbc-31becd2ae0a8

There are a few things that are apparently overlooked constantly. firstly why block Pfizer to the UK when Pfizer are seemingly meeting their obligations to the EU. Secondly there is a presumption that the UK have gotten more than their fair share of AZ but this is ignoring the relative order size, they ordered 100m for a population of 66m, the EU ordered 300m for a population of 440m. Per capita the UK ordered 1.51 doses a head, the EU 0.68. Considering the UK approved a month before the EU and effectively had double the order size, is anyone surprised the EU are behind the curve?

If anything the AZ mess is distracting from the fact that 1 of the other approved vaccines (approved in January, before AZ) has supplied close to nothing and J & J do not look to have much available until June. Too many eggs are seemingly in one basket.

landofthetree

The EU is blocking the export of a vaccine that the majority in Europe won't take.

https://twitter.com/PaulSommerville/status/1373913870205616134

astrofool

The EU should really block shipments to the UK until they are at a comparable supply to the UK (which would see countries like Ireland at a comparable vaccinated %). After that, supply should be let out to allow the EU and UK to progress at the same pace. If the UK are self sufficient with their factories, they should be unaffected.

What may actually happen is that the EU will continue to supply the world, AZ production from EU will be blocked to the UK, Boris and a few of his cheerleaders on here will have a cry about it, and tie themselves in knots arguing that it's unfair, spouting contracts and supplychains and Oxford/AZ are both government and privately run and EU and not EU funded in the same breath (expect the Murdoch group to be particularly vocal), even though their Pfizer supply remains unaffected, and the world moves on.

dogbert27

landofthetree wrote: »

The EU is blocking the export of a vaccine that the majority in Europe won't take.

https://twitter.com/PaulSommerville/status/1373913870205616134

The EU is more than 4 countries and the other side of those polls will still take it so it is needed within the EU

Pete_Cavan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There are a few things that are apparently overlooked constantly. firstly why block Pfizer to the UK when Pfizer are seemingly meeting their obligations to the EU.

Any ban is likely to relate only to AZ.

Secondly there is a presumption that the UK have gotten more than their fair share of AZ but this is ignoring the relative order size, they ordered 100m for a population of 66m, the EU ordered 300m for a population of 440m. Per capita the UK ordered 1.51 doses a head, the EU 0.68. Considering the UK approved a month before the EU and effectively had double the order size, is anyone surprised the EU are behind the curve?

That is irrelevant. AZ signed contracts and are bound by the terms of those contracts, other contracts have no bearing on that. AZ should be supplying all customers what they ordered, any other orders those customers have do not change that.
The EU may actually be ahead of the curve had AZ been supplying it from Halix, but AZ created a situation where they couldn't by delaying application for it. EU money was paid upfront to ensure it would meet production but the EU hasn't yet benefited from that.

If anything the AZ mess is distracting from the fact that 1 of the other approved vaccines (approved in January, before AZ) has supplied close to nothing and J & J do not look to have much available until June. Too many eggs are seemingly in one basket.

Wait so you are criticising that the EU has too many eggs in the AZ basket while in the previous breath you said the UK is twice as dependent on AZ? Moderna were upfront on slow delivery to begin with, presumably their contract reflects this.

Strazdas

landofthetree wrote: »

The EU is blocking the export of a vaccine that the majority in Europe won't take.

https://twitter.com/PaulSommerville/status/1373913870205616134

Do we have any evidence that 50-60% of people in France and Germany are refusing an AZ vaccine when offered one? He's making a very big leap and a lot of assumptions there.

People declaring a vaccine 'unsafe' in an opinion poll are unlikely to take any vaccine.

astrofool

astrofool wrote: »

The EU should really block shipments to the UK until they are at a comparable supply to the UK (which would see countries like Ireland at a comparable vaccinated %). After that, supply should be let out to allow the EU and UK to progress at the same pace. If the UK are self sufficient with their factories, they should be unaffected.

so the EU should interfere in the contract between a private company and the UK government to deliberately try and slow down the UK's vaccination programme and make themselves look better?

robinph

Strazdas wrote: »

Do we have any evidence that 50-60% of people in France and Germany are refusing an AZ vaccine when offered one? He's making a very big leap and a lot of assumptions there.

People declaring a vaccine 'unsafe' in an opinion poll are unlikely to take any vaccine.

There have certainly been stories about it being refused in France and Germany. But the main bit of evidence that a problem is looming is that other than a couple of countries most of Europe can't be bothered to get the flu jab each year.

https://twitter.com/EU_Eurostat/status/1204022885724983296?s=19

Edit: Think that must have been a bad year for the Ireland take up as other stats I've seen normally showed Ireland as second most vaccinated after the UK and around high 60% take up with the UK normally 75%+.

Charles Babbage

Aegir wrote: »

so the EU should interfere in the contract between a private company and the UK government to deliberately try and slow down the UK's vaccination programme and make themselves look better?

No, the EU should ensure that private company delivers it's committments and doesn't export it all away.

Charles Babbage

Charles Babbage wrote: »

No, the EU should ensure that private company delivers it's committments and doesn't export it all away.

so only block AZ shipments?

I wouldn't disagree with that, but I fail to see why they should interfere with Pfizer deliveries.