What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

Strazdas · 23-03-2021 07:31PM

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

The British tabloids think everything is about Brexit. It's actually coming across like some kind of national psychosis at this stage and it has completely muddied the water around this AstraZeneca issue.

We should be getting to the bottom of what is going on with the supply chain, not taking insult at someone daring to question a multinational company that has somehow been given national treasure status.

Their vaccine programme has gotten off to a great start and that's great for them and has impact on us too as they'd a huge and largely out of control outbreak which now will hopefully be reigned in.

However, turning this into some kind of football match between En-ger-land and Yurp or an imaginary tabloid fight is really not helping anyone.

I blame the media coverage for much of what is happening. They've convinced the public that AZ is a "British" vaccine and the successful rollout so far is down to Brexit. Therefore anyone in Europe challenging this narrative is clearly jealous, bitter or 'out for revenge' for Brexit. Even criticising the AstraZeneca management is seen as an attack on either the UK or Brexit (despite the fact the AZ board of directors is full of Europeans).

BonnieSituation · 23-03-2021 07:37PM

Aegir wrote: »

I couldn’t say if you are right or wrong.

I can say that putting labels on someone is petty and completely pointless.

Then if you can't say, why bother getting involved at all?

23-03-2021 07:40PM

Strazdas wrote: »

I blame the media coverage for much of what is happening. They've convinced the public that AZ is a "British" vaccine and the successful rollout so far is down to Brexit. Therefore anyone in Europe challenging this narrative is clearly jealous, bitter or 'out for revenge' for Brexit. Even criticising the AstraZeneca management is seen as an attack on either the UK or Brexit (despite the fact the AZ board of directors is full of Europeans).

Yiu can blame who you like and say it as often as you like.

You are wrong though, it’s all in your head and is just sour grapes.

RobMc59 · 23-03-2021 07:43PM

Strazdas wrote: »

I blame the media coverage for much of what is happening. They've convinced the public that AZ is a "British" vaccine and the successful rollout so far is down to Brexit. Therefore anyone in Europe challenging this narrative is clearly jealous, bitter or 'out for revenge' for Brexit. Even criticising the AstraZeneca management is seen as an attack on either the UK or Brexit (despite the fact the AZ board of directors is full of Europeans).

If you keep saying it`s an eu vaccine you might convince yourselves it`s true.Meanwhile this is how it looks to the rest of us.

https://youtu.be/eNiR5ZTb_MA

23-03-2021 07:48PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

If you keep saying it`s an eu vaccine you might convince yourselves it`s true.Meanwhile this is how it looks to the rest of us.

https://youtu.be/eNiR5ZTb_MA

It’s similar to the mental gymnastics that goes on when a rabid republican Man United fan goes to extraordinary lengths to explain how they aren’t actually an English football club, but are more of an international franchise.

It’s quite amusing.

Strazdas · 23-03-2021 07:56PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

If you keep saying it`s an eu vaccine you might convince yourselves it`s true.Meanwhile this is how it looks to the rest of us.

https://youtu.be/eNiR5ZTb_MA

It is not an 'EU vaccine' (nor is Pfizer).....that is the whole point. It's a vaccine manufactured by a private pharma company.

Johnson & Johnson vaccine was developed in a laboratory in Leiden, NL but nobody is referring to it as 'the Dutch vaccine' or 'an EU vaccine'.

Strazdas · 23-03-2021 08:07PM

Aegir wrote: »

It’s similar to the mental gymnastics that goes on when a rabid republican Man United fan goes to extraordinary lengths to explain how they aren’t actually an English football club, but are more of an international franchise.

It’s quite amusing.

Why would people in the continental EU think of AZ as a British vaccine? The word "Oxford" never even gets mentioned, just "AstraZeneca" which doesn't even sound British....I would say a lot of EU citizens are not even aware AZ has manufacturing plants in the UK.

23-03-2021 08:20PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Why would people in the continental EU think of AZ as a British vaccine? The word "Oxford" never even gets mentioned, just "AstraZeneca" which doesn't even sound British....I would say a lot of EU citizens are not even aware AZ has manufacturing plants in the UK.

I wouldn't expect them to, any more than i would people to associate the Pfizer vaccine with Germany. You appear to be the only person on here obsessing over the perceived nationality of a vaccine.

Danzy · 23-03-2021 08:28PM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

But no matter what they do they are the scum that lied to us about what they were going to give us.

Millions of their vaccines are being manufactured and delivered daily across the globe.

That's a good thing. Other countries and blocks didn't bother. That was their choice.

The question in this remains Why didn't the EU bother to be the global leader in the vaccine program.

Why didn't it bother to aim for all adults vaccinated in May.

No doubt AZ have messed up but they will still protect hundreds of millions this year and up to a billion by the end of Next year.

You are just sore that they succeeded and are doing Britain and surging through the 3rd world.

Beasty · 23-03-2021 08:36PM

Can we stick to the topic

RobMc59 · 23-03-2021 08:37PM

Danzy wrote: »

Millions of their vaccines are being manufactured and delivered daily across the globe.

That's a good thing. Other countries and blocks didn't bother. That was their choice.

The question in this remains Why didn't the EU bother to be the global leader in the vaccine program.

Why didn't it bother to aim for all adults vaccinated in May.

No doubt AZ have messed up but they will still protect hundreds of millions this year and up to a billion by the end of Next year.

You are just sore that they succeeded and are doing Britain and surging through the 3rd world.

As a British person I hope available vaccines are shared out,although if the UK was quicker off the mark securing it`s deal with AZ then fair play to them.
Would EU countries be willing to share with the UK if the EU had acted first and secured a deal with AZ?I think the answer would have been`You`re a third party country ,so sorry but no,we come first`.

PCeeeee · 23-03-2021 08:41PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

As a British person I hope available vaccines are shared out,although if the UK was quicker off the mark securing it`s deal with AZ then fair play to them.
Would you be willing to share with the UK if the EU had acted first and secured a deal with AZ?I think the answer would have been`You`re a third party country ,so sorry but no,we come first`.

I think it would have been a reasonable policy. Common travel area and shared island and all.

RobMc59 · 23-03-2021 09:00PM

PCeeeee wrote: »

I think it would have been a reasonable policy. Common travel area and shared island and all.

Yes,that would be the best policy for all of us.

suicide_circus · 23-03-2021 09:23PM

The politicisation of the AZ vaccine has been a disgrace.

Pete_Cavan · 23-03-2021 09:28PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

As a British person I hope available vaccines are shared out,although if the UK was quicker off the mark securing it`s deal with AZ then fair play to them.
Would EU countries be willing to share with the UK if the EU had acted first and secured a deal with AZ?I think the answer would have been`You`re a third party country ,so sorry but no,we come first`.

They weren't quicker off the mark. For the AZ/UK contract to have any bearing on the AZ/EU contract, it would have to be specifically stated in the contract. In their contract with the EU, AZ specifically state they have no other contracts which impede them supplying the EU (clause 13 e for reference). AZ have to supply all their customers based on each individual customers contract. If there is anything contradictory in the AZ/UK contract, AZ should have informed the EU when preparing a contract and not signed up to delivery targets if they were dependent on something else.

Danzy · 23-03-2021 09:33PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

The politicisation of the AZ vaccine has been a disgrace.

Cynical as well.

It will cost lives all over Europe but as long as no one in Brussels loses their jobs ..

Strazdas · 23-03-2021 09:35PM

Aegir wrote: »

I wouldn't expect them to, any more than i would people to associate the Pfizer vaccine with Germany. You appear to be the only person on here obsessing over the perceived nationality of a vaccine.

But the whole British media narrative is that the EU and EU member states have it in for AstraZeneca 'for political reasons'. What would these political reasons be?

Charles Babbage · 23-03-2021 09:35PM

Danzy wrote: »

Cynical as well.

It will cost lives all over Europe but as long as no one in Brussels loses their jobs ..

Who in AZ will lose their job, it is their shortage that is costing the lives?

Wolf359f · 23-03-2021 09:35PM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

They weren't quicker off the mark. For the AZ/UK contract to have any bearing on the AZ/EU contract, it would have to be specifically stated in the contract. In their contract with the EU, AZ specifically state they have no other contracts which impede them supplying the EU (clause 13 e for reference). AZ have to supply all their customers based on each individual customers contract. If there is anything contradictory in the AZ/UK contract, AZ should have informed the EU when preparing a contract and not signed up to delivery targets if they were dependent on something else.

Just imagine now, if the US approves AZ and it turns out they signed a contract a day before the EU or UK, which states all vaccines produced by AZ worldwide have to be shipped to the US upon approval. Going by the way some people are defending AZ, they would see that as acceptable? I know it's completely unrealistic, but that's how ****ed up AZ have been with conflicting contracts.

Pete_Cavan · 23-03-2021 09:39PM

Danzy wrote: »

Millions of their vaccines are being manufactured and delivered daily across the globe.

That's a good thing. Other countries and blocks didn't bother. That was their choice.

The question in this remains Why didn't the EU bother to be the global leader in the vaccine program.

Why didn't it bother to aim for all adults vaccinated in May.

No doubt AZ have messed up but they will still protect hundreds of millions this year and up to a billion by the end of Next year.

You are just sore that they succeeded and are doing Britain and surging through the 3rd world.

Millions of their vaccines are being manufactured in the EU and India and delivered daily across the globe. The UK has contributed nothing to the global vaccination effort, >40m doses have been exported from the EU.

Whatever vaccines are being manufactured in Britain are remaining there but that is obviously not much as the UK has needed to import AZ doses from the EU and India. Far from vaccinating the 3rd world, the UK actually got 5m doses from SII which was supposed to be producing for the 3rd world! And thats before considering the EU developed/funded/produced BioNTech vaccine which has actually been the most used vaccine in the UK.

Hurrache · 23-03-2021 09:40PM

So Johnson admitted it was greed that got them their stash, confirmed by more than one source, hence me posting a link to the original story in the Sun
https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1374447460664307724?s=19

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1374458343226404871?s=19

Bit cynical · 23-03-2021 09:44PM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Can the BioNTech vaccine which was developed in Germany, by a German company with EU funding be considered an EU vaccine or does that logic only apply to things which can be claimed as British?

If it succeeds and there are no scandals then it it is the "great EU vaccine". If some fault emerges or they are unable to deliver in the quanties advertised then it will be "that German vaccine".

Danzy · 23-03-2021 09:46PM

"The European Commission continues to pressure Belgian authorities to end the non-essential travel ban currently effective in Belgium, which is set to expire only on April 18, 2021"

The"it's only a flu", vaccines are quack science, ethos still circulating in the EU corridors of power.

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/eu-continues-to-pressure-belgium-to-put-an-end-to-travel-ban/

Pete_Cavan · 23-03-2021 09:50PM

Bit cynical wrote: »

If it succeeds and there are no scandals then it it is the "great EU vaccine". If some fault emerges or they are unable to deliver in the quanties advertised then it will be "that German vaccine".

Nope, vaccines don't have nationalities, don't carry passports, etc. Some though want to claim one particular vaccine as British but consider all others as international. Its a load of nonsense really.

RobMc59 · 23-03-2021 09:53PM

I`ve followed this thread for some time and it`s astonishing how the AZ vaccine has gone from a British crock of sh*te that Europe won`t use to now being actually an EU success story.

Hurrache · 23-03-2021 10:04PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

I`ve followed this thread for some time and it`s astonishing how the AZ vaccine has gone from a British crock of sh*te that Europe won`t use to now being actually an EU success story.

It has?!?!

Strazdas · 23-03-2021 10:08PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

I`ve followed this thread for some time and it`s astonishing how the AZ vaccine has gone from a British crock of sh*te that Europe won`t use to now being actually an EU success story.

Both claims would be wrong IMO. It's another Covid-19 vaccine in the arsenal that seems to do the job.

I can't understand the claims that the EU is trying to undermine the vaccine though - this makes absolutely no sense. They're trying to get their hands on more doses. Attempting to discredit the vaccine 'for political reasons' would be utterly illogical.

Macron making some disparaging comments about it a few weeks ago is a separate discussion - he did that purely in his role as French President and was not speaking for the EU or reflecting the view of the union.

Wolf359f · 23-03-2021 10:09PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

I`ve followed this thread for some time and it`s astonishing how the AZ vaccine has gone from a British crock of sh*te that Europe won`t use to now being actually an EU success story.

I certainly would not put AZ and success in the same sentence! Oxford and success, yes of course.
AZ has seriously botched the production, they are clearly out of their depth.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 23-03-2021 10:26PM

Danzy wrote: »

You are just sore that they succeeded and are doing Britain and surging through the 3rd world.

Well we signed a contract with Astra Zenaca. We did it before the UK did (our contract was signed 27 August theirs on 28 August).

A contract in which Astra Zenaca pledged to make their best effort to supply the EU primarily from 2 EU factories but also from 2 UK factories.

A contract in which AZ pledged to have no other contracts that would prevent them from meeting the commuted to dates.

You are damn right I'm sore. We bought vaccine from them. We paid partially in advance. They didn't deliver on time and aren't delivering.

I'm delighted that Oxford succeeding in developing a useful vaccine.

astrofool · 23-03-2021 10:26PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

I certainly would not put AZ and success in the same sentence! Oxford and success, yes of course.
AZ has seriously botched the production, they are clearly out of their depth.

It also looks like they've botched their second US trial. Getting a non-vaccine company to supply an "easy to produce" COVID vaccine hasn't worked out too well. I'd wonder in an alternate reality, would Merck have got the west vaccinated by now, and supply could concentrate on the rest of the world.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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