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Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

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Comments

  • #8702
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    covidrelease wrote: »
    I think most people accept we need restrictions, but they need to be the right ones and proportionate to the number of cases at a point in time.

    Construction closed is ridiculous, everybody is working away anyway, either insider doing nixers (arguably more dangerous) than on outdoor sites. The government / NPHET should accept this rather than pretend its not happening.

    The 5K rule, implemented at ~8000 cases a day but still in place, all it doing is pissing people off and turning people away from compliance.

    Gatherings outside, no reason not to allow outdoor gatherings at picnic benches, outside coffee shops etc., people are doing it indoors instead which is more dangerous.

    Last week NPHET went on a rant about takeaway pints, all the big Paddys day parties / Cheltenham gatherings took place indoors, it would be much safer to allow some level of outdoor drinking in controlled environments.

    The government / NPHET need to accept that these tough measures are not acceptable and counterproductive.

    To the best of my knowledge bars and restaurants in New York staying largely open all winter, either outdoors or 25% capacity etc.

    I see what you're saying.

    The issue with tables, benches or what have you especially where people are drinking and talking together is close contact and close proximity.

    Even if that is outdoors. And yeah I agree inside is worse. But there's the conundrum. At the moment cases are rising. How do you control 25% capacity of unregulated outdoor seating? Whats the solution?

    To be honest - as far as I'm concerned- the 5km rule is little different from the stay at home order in the UK which is still in place there and elsewhere where only local travel is permitted. Again they're measures to help prevent whole crowds of people from all over travelling distances to locations and all stopping for refreshments, toilets etc. People tend to act like lemmings at the best of times in these places.

    I can still travel for a whole bunch of reasons- I think way too many people have taken the 5 km limit to mean they have to stay in their bedrooms. It doesn't

    We need to get people vaccinated so those who dont or won't bother with the restrictions (and we've always had those) are infecting fewer people and then we can open up in earnest.


  • #8703
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,947 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Asylum15 wrote: »
    A family member of mine recently booked a holiday to Lanzarote from Dublin and drove from Cork to Dublin, spent a week there and then returned to Cork. (We are all furious with said person). However, she was not stopped once at a checkpoint either way and did not get a single fine.

    Then last week I drove from Cork City to Fermoy to deliver crucial meds to my aunt (diabetic, doesn't drive) and was stopped by a Garda who absolutely smashed the ears off me and handed me a nice fine.

    It's this type of stuff makes me wonder.
    I'd be contesting that fine. Delivering crucial medication to a diabetic surely falls under the description of an essential journey.

    Since the Garda in question would be easily identifiable from the fine paperwork I'd go as far as making a complaint to the district superintendent, ask for written confirmation that the fine was cancelled and suggest that some members under their command are in much need of some reeducation.


  • #8704
    covidrelease
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 229 ✭✭covidrelease


    gozunda wrote: »
    I see what you're saying.

    The issue with tables, benches or what have you especially where people are drinking and talking together is close contact and close proximity.

    Even if that is outdoors. And yeah I agree inside is worse. But there's the conundrum. At the moment cases are rising. How do you control 25% capacity of unregulated outdoor seating? Whats the solution?

    To be honest - as far as I'm concerned- the 5km rule is little different from the stay at home order in the UK which is still in place there and elsewhere where only local travel is permitted. Again they're measures to help prevent whole crowds of people from all over travelling distances to locations and all stopping for refreshments, toilets etc. People tend to act like lemmings at the best of times in these places.

    I can still travel for a whole bunch of reasons- I think way too many people have taken the 5 km limit to mean they have to stay in their bedrooms. It doesn't

    We need to get people vaccinated so those who dont or won't bother with the restrictions (and we've always had those) are infecting fewer people and then we can open up in earnest.

    I'd be suggesting alcohol be consumed outdoors in controlled environments, like pub beer gardens, say 50 people maximum on the premises, tables 2 metres apart, 6 people to a table etc.

    Picnic tables 3 metres apart outside coffee shops, chippers etc. but no alcohol.

    A lot of people would accept something like that and it would take away the pent up demand that happened at christmas.

    If cases go above say 3000 a day then its 4 to a table outside a pub and 40 max. on the premises for example.

    In essence a sliding scale of restrictions based on 14 day average.


  • #8705
    Tazz T
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    What Username Guidelines wrote: »
    This is excellent. It should be noted that they've implemented a 'green pass' whereby the economy is fully open to those vaccinated. Not a huge issue as they were so fast getting many vaccinated, so there wasn't a long wait for people. The issue here with a similar scheme would be a mix of people disagreeing with the idea of a pass and also unfair to those who have to wait ~6 months for a vaccine. That's without questioning who would even enforce it, if anyone. Can't imagine all businesses closed for a year to be filtering customers.

    6 months is a bit ambitious.

    Realistically, they should have teams set up to vax people on the way out/in of core businesses for those who want it.


  • #8706
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    covidrelease wrote: »
    The pandemic started over a year ago, plenty of time by now to design in surge capacity, extra ventilators, step down facilities, extra ICU units etc. etc.
    That is what we were sold over a year ago, flatten the curve, give us time to put things in place.

    Indeed and we have considering health services have been dealing with non stop admissions of covid patients over that year.

    Personally I believe we have had a very inefficient health service. But seeing whats happened in the last year- i think overall it had have been managed fairly well.

    And yes they've increased the surge capacity with up to a 1000 covid patients being dealt with at a time.

    A significant amount of money has been spent on coping with the redeployment of existing healtcare services towards the treatment and management of covid patients and increased real-time ICU admissions.

    And yes we have seen a rise in ICU capacity. Available data shows the baseline capacity in ICU increased up to 280 up from 255 in March / April 2020. Afaik the surge capacity for ICU beds stands at approx 350.

    It also has to be understood that ICU capacity is not just beds - but also fully trained and available clinical staff, clinical space, clinical equipment, oxygen supply and
    Hospital / Hospital Group / HSE system supports. And yes more ventilators were bought although less invasive oxygen support is increasingly used where possible.

    As for 'flatten the curve - you do know what that means?

    It means keeping down the rate of infection in the community so that those infected and sick don't all end up in the hospital in one big block

    It doesn't mean building a 100 hospitals so we can let the virus rip as was being suggested elsewhere.


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  • #8707
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    Irish Times:

    "The National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) last night reported 769 cases and two deaths. Health officials had been expressing concern about case numbers appearing to be stuck at about 500 to 600 per day for the last few weeks, but yesterday’s total was the highest since February 26th.

    Government sources said the figures were not surprising and that further increases could be expected once the full effects of St Patrick’s Day, Mother’s Day and the recent good weather became evident later this week."

    But 200 was backlog related yes?


  • #8708
    MerlinSouthDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭MerlinSouthDub


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    Irish Times:

    "The National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) last night reported 769 cases and two deaths. Health officials had been expressing concern about case numbers appearing to be stuck at about 500 to 600 per day for the last few weeks, but yesterday’s total was the highest since February 26th.

    Government sources said the figures were not surprising and that further increases could be expected once the full effects of St Patrick’s Day, Mother’s Day and the recent good weather became evident later this week."

    But 200 was backlog related yes?

    There was a backlog of 200+ but we don't have swab data for Sunday yet, so we don't know how much of the 769 was the backlog, and how much was new swabs.


  • #8709
    Tazz T
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    Irish Times:

    "The National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) last night reported 769 cases and two deaths. Health officials had been expressing concern about case numbers appearing to be stuck at about 500 to 600 per day for the last few weeks, but yesterday’s total was the highest since February 26th.

    Government sources said the figures were not surprising and that further increases could be expected once the full effects of St Patrick’s Day, Mother’s Day and the recent good weather became evident later this week."

    But 200 was backlog related yes?

    Ignoring the immunological benefits of being outside, mixing outdoors is a lot better than mixing indoors. 'Government sources' are making up excuses at this stage. I wouldn't be surprised to see a distinct fall in cases in two weeks time.


  • #8710
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,338 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Seems theres talk on social media about outbreak in Carrick-on-Suir and a school there closing out of caution. Havent seen anything in media yet so could be hearsay.


  • #8711
    Neamhshuntasach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭Neamhshuntasach


    While lockdowns can be effective, long lockdowns are not because the human element comes into the equation a lot stronger then. Outside of barricading people into their homes, you need wide scale buy in and acceptance. That erodes over time. You have people who have been living their day to day lives all their adult life and managing their own risk have all this taken away from them. Of course an increasing percentage of the population are going to stop complying with certain aspects. Especially those that have not seen an negative effects of Covid directly within their own circle.

    5KM and essential trips are out the window for a large amount of people now. Schools going back further increased this as loads using the schools excuse at checkpoints and schools being back optically present a sense of normality. Peoples behavior would change on the back of this. Lots more house visits now because there is encouragement to meet outside. So people sneaking into houses with bags to make it appear their dropping off something essential. Also you've people who haven't caught it and follow restrictions close enough mixing with others doing the same as they see it as low risk. "if i haven't caught it by being careful, then i assume my mates John and Mary haven't caught it either" type of logic.

    Even outside of opening anything else up. A 20-25 KM limit and encouraging people to go outside and meet would have been a much better approach. I believe it would have done a world of good for peoples overall health and kept people on board with other aspects of restrictions. A majority of people want to follow restrictions. They don't want to break rules or laws. If there was encouragement to meet outside, i think there would have been a lot less house visits because people would go for the option without fear of hitting checkpoints or people seeing them outside mixing.


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  • #8712
    mean gene
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 875 ✭✭✭mean gene


    Backlog deliberately held back to intensify the fear with a high number and lower expectations regarding relaxing of restrictions


  • #8713
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,737 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    That Cavan idiot who is also a priest and said mass to 40 people in contravention of the law needs to be sent to the slammer for a year.
    Reckless idiots. Thank god we now live in a society that can call out idiot clergy without being burnt at the stake.


  • #8714
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,748 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    A lot of people went drinking and meeting at the Lough in Cork on Wednesday. Paddy’s Day + fine weather. Cue outrage galore on local radio the following morning with plenty of videos of the crowds there.

    I can imagine and understand why many of those who went there on Wednesday opt to meet up indoors the next time where they won’t be filmed and shamed.

    The outrage merchants don’t seem to understand the concept of substitution. Then again neither do the Government by the looks of things. If you ban the sale of beef, beef fans won’t stop eating. They’ll eat chicken or something similar instead. If you discourage people meeting in safe(r) outdoor environments it will drive them elsewhere.


  • #8715
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    That Cavan idiot who is also a priest and said mass to 40 people in contravention of the law needs to be sent to the slammer for a year.
    Reckless idiots. Thank god we now live in a society that can call out idiot clergy without being burnt at the stake.
    Well, masses at the moment are a bit like in Penal times! I saw a mass yesterday with everyone outside but a sizable distanced crowd.


  • #8716
    Renault 5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭Renault 5


    Its really depressing that there are only 175,526 full vaccinated people in the country.


  • #8717
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,634 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Other European countries maintained an equivalent of 1,000-3,500 cases a day over several months. If it's good enough for other European countries, then it's good enough for us.

    Yes, they went back into lockdown - but that was an inevitability anyway.

    What's sad with NPHET is that they didn't bother allowing society to enjoy the freedom that comes with this relatively low level of modest infection. Now, with Europe convulsed by a third wave, NPHET has the opportunity to extend Lv. 5 even longer.

    Just wondering which European countries maintained the equivalent of 1-3k cases over months without any form of lockdown. It just seems a very high rate of infection to keep a country open for months on end without restrictions.


  • #8718
    funnydoggy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,065 ✭✭✭funnydoggy


    Renault 5 wrote: »
    Its really depressing that there are only 175,526 full vaccinated people in the country.


    So far. We're ramping these vaccines up. Our issue is with supply, not actually vaccinating people.


  • #8719
    covidrelease
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 229 ✭✭covidrelease


    marno21 wrote: »
    A lot of people went drinking and meeting at the Lough in Cork on Wednesday. Paddy’s Day + fine weather. Cue outrage galore on local radio the following morning with plenty of videos of the crowds there.

    I can imagine and understand why many of those who went there on Wednesday opt to meet up indoors the next time where they won’t be filmed and shamed.

    The outrage merchants don’t seem to understand the concept of substitution. Then again neither do the Government by the looks of things. If you ban the sale of beef, beef fans won’t stop eating. They’ll eat chicken or something similar instead. If you discourage people meeting in safe(r) outdoor environments it will drive them elsewhere.

    This is exactly the problem, people are going to meet up anyway and once its indoors NPHET and the government can pretend its not happening.

    Like Glynn whinging about takeaway pints, a lot of people will go into town for a pint to spite him.


  • #8720
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,737 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Well, masses at the moment are a bit like in Penal times! I saw a mass yesterday with everyone outside but a sizable distanced crowd.

    If people forgo the mass ritual during the pandemic, surely the all forgiving God would cut people a break?


  • #8721
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,338 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Renault 5 wrote: »
    Its really depressing that there are only 175,526 full vaccinated people in the country.

    181,063 now. https://twitter.com/COVID19DataIE/status/1373962667619127301

    Hopefully J and J will speed things up once it comes.


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  • #8722
    What Username Guidelines
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭What Username Guidelines


    funnydoggy wrote: »
    So far. We're ramping these vaccines up. Our issue is with supply, not actually vaccinating people.

    It's very hard to see that in the states yesterday, they closed down a vaccination centre early because of a lack of people to vaccinate. We'll get there eventually, and we'll have similar stories, but right now it's all a bit glum. On a positive note tho, as US/UK/Israel blast ahead, and they'll be partying before us, the supply will increase from both manufacturing and from those countries finishing or ramping down their programs.


  • #8723
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,836 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    That Cavan idiot who is also a priest and said mass to 40 people in contravention of the law needs to be sent to the slammer for a year.
    Reckless idiots. Thank god we now live in a society that can call out idiot clergy without being burnt at the stake.

    :D


  • #8724
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,088 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    Renault 5 wrote: »
    Its really depressing that there are only 175,526 full vaccinated people in the country.

    No that's not depressing at all as I'd go with the much higher number of people that have had first dose, providing most of the vaccine's effectiveness.

    Half a million people are vaccinated and was always going to significantly ramp up in Q2.

    That's not depressing that's incredible. For a disease only 1 year old :p


  • #8725
    ek motor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 548 ✭✭✭ek motor


    Eod100 wrote: »
    181,063 now. https://twitter.com/COVID19DataIE/status/1373962667619127301

    Hopefully J and J will speed things up once it comes.

    After 3 months , 3% vaccinated, really pathetic numbers. But sure what can we do


  • #8726
    covidrelease
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 229 ✭✭covidrelease


    What Username Guidelines wrote: »
    It's very hard to see that in the states yesterday, they closed down a vaccination centre early because of a lack of people to vaccinate. We'll get there eventually, and we'll have similar stories, but right now it's all a bit glum. On a positive note tho, as US/UK/Israel blast ahead, and they'll be partying before us, the supply will increase from both manufacturing and from those countries finishing or ramping down their programs.

    And as this happens more frequently we will suddenly get extra vaccine, especially in the UK and Northern Ireland, its easy to transfer vaccines through the back channels, and in everybodys interest to get us up to par with the rest of the common travel area.


  • #8727
    ek motor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 548 ✭✭✭ek motor


    Theboinkmaster wrote: »
    No that's not depressing at all as I'd go with the much higher number of people that have had first dose, providing most of the vaccine's effectiveness.

    Half a million people are vaccinated and was always going to significantly ramp up in Q2.

    That's not depressing that's incredible. For a disease only 1 year old :p

    You appear to be delusional , but at least you're happy!


  • #8728
    Renault 5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭Renault 5


    Theboinkmaster wrote: »

    Half a million people are vaccinated and was always going to significantly ramp up in Q2.

    To me, You are vaccinated when you get the second dose.

    I wouldn't count people who have received one dose as vaccinated. Unless they got the J&J.

    Thats just my opinion.


  • #8729
    crossman47
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭crossman47


    Renault 5 wrote: »
    To me, You are vaccinated when you get the second dose.

    I wouldn't count people who have received one dose as vaccinated. Unless they got the J&J.

    Thats just my opinion.

    Fully vaccinated but first dose gives good protection. That's how UK are doing it.


  • #8730
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,213 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    First dose gives at least 50% protection after 10 - 14 days - thats my own looking at the Pfizer paper. Definitely helped us calm down a little bit at work in January when vaccinations matched up with the big peak.


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  • #8731
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,088 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    Renault 5 wrote: »
    To me, You are vaccinated when you get the second dose.

    I wouldn't count people who have received one dose as vaccinated. Unless they got the J&J.

    Thats just my opinion.

    Yeah but that's nonsense - the Pfizer vaccine gives 90% effectiveness after first dose.

    So in the context of relaxing restrictions, impact on health services etc. in the short-term getting the first dose into as many people as possible is important.

    That's why some countries have delayed the 2nd dose and they are 100% right to do this.

    It's completely misleading to be quoting only the 2nd dose figures, especially when they are so far apart from 1st dose figures.


This discussion has been closed.
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