What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

is_that_so · 21-03-2021 09:28AM

murphaph wrote: »

What I find sad is that despite the (now seemingly likely) connection between AZ and these very rare clots, there has been little attempt to make younger and middle aged Brits aware of what symptoms to actually look out for once they've had their shot. The condition is treatable if caught in time. I wonder has a call been made to downplay the specific risk of these very rare events because they fear people will be put off getting the vaccine at all.

Like other authorities they are likely to have updated the instructions and advice on AZ.

murphaph · 21-03-2021 10:15AM

is_that_so wrote: »

Like other authorities they are likely to have updated the instructions and advice on AZ.

I found the following on the HSE website in moments:
https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/media/pressrel/resumption-of-the-astrazeneca-vaccine.html

I can't see any updates to the NHS website or pamphlet or the "after your vaccination" website (last updated 1st of March)
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-what-to-expect-after-vaccination/what-to-expect-after-your-covid-19-vaccination

I'm not saying it's not happening on the ground because I don't know but the message I've heard being projected from the UK is one of "everything is fine" whereas the message from the EMA is "everything is fine but watch out for..."

I hope, given the UK is about to embark on mass vaccinations of younger people (including friends of mine), that the symptoms of the rare clots are made very public so nobody is left sitting at home doubting themselves rather than dialling 999.

The vaccine, even if responsible for these rare clots will still save more lives than it will take even in younger people. I would take it myself, but I feel more comfortable knowing what to look out for.

PMBC · 21-03-2021 10:28AM

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I wondered about this and would love to hear anyone's thoughts on it.
Mostly to set my mind at ease.

They say the risk of death from Covid is greater than the risk of injury or death by this vaccine, and that certainly is true when you apply the risk of Covid to the population as a whole as it includes the elderly and vulnerable.

The cerebral clotting issue with Astraveneca however is primarily affecting young healthy women age 20 - 50. Germany reported 13 cases, 12 in women in this age bracket.

I wonder what the prevalence of negative outcomes of Covid infection are in this specific cohort, and if the risk really outstrips that from Covid when you adjust for age and sex.
Anyone know if that was addressed in any statement?

I saw that addressed earlier but cant find now. The numbers were potentially one death in the vaccinated due to the thrombotic event and five for non vaccination.
Sorry I cant give you the reference.

Strazdas · 21-03-2021 01:37PM

Danzy wrote: »

Fair enough but the lethargy around giving vaccines in Europe is also informing the EU approach to date.

The 3rd wave on the continent will finish that hesitancy.

I would say it is a mixed bag at the moment. Smaller countries like Ireland and Denmark seem to be doing a great job at getting available vaccines out to people. For some reason, the bigger states like France and Germany appear to be messing up and leaving vaccines on the shelves.

AlekSmart · 21-03-2021 01:49PM

PMBC wrote: »

I saw that addressed earlier but cant find now. The numbers were potentially one death in the vaccinated due to the thrombotic event and five for non vaccination.
Sorry I cant give you the reference.

Quite an interesting article in the Irish Times,which sheds a little light on the current scenario.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/brexit-blinds-britain-to-astrazeneca-s-blunders-1.4514825

The company made its biggest error in November, when the release of confusing results from its phase-three clinical trials raised eyebrows around the world. A press release announcing the results said that, depending on dosage, the vaccine was either 62 or 90 per cent effective. But it was US authorities which revealed the higher efficacy rate applied only to a small sample of patients aged under 55.

Nor did AstraZeneca disclose at first that the more efficacious dosage combination (a half-dose followed by a full one) was the unplanned result of a contract manufacturer producing a half-dose by accident.

Meanwhile, the US Food and Drug Administration had reacted angrily when it learned from the media that AstraZeneca had temporarily halted its trials around the world after a participant in Britain fell ill. The US had invested $1 billion in the vaccine and felt it should have been kept informed. The upshot of American concerns is that AstraZeneca had yet even to apply for approval there; as a result some 30 million doses are sitting unused in American warehouses.

Politics & Medicine rarely mix well......:(

Call me Al · 21-03-2021 01:54PM

PMBC wrote: »

I saw that addressed earlier but cant find now. The numbers were potentially one death in the vaccinated due to the thrombotic event and five for non vaccination.
Sorry I cant give you the reference.

At the AstraZeneca presser this week one of the doctors present (I think it may have been the St James's harmotologist) said that currently, for those in their 20s the risk of a blood clot from covid itself is 1 in 5,000, whilst it is 1 in a million with AstraZeneca.
Now I don't think she was questioned on whether she was comparing like with like wrt the types of clots, but I do think it's a decent point to be made to those in the younger age cohort who might be of a mind to not be vaccinated and take their chances with the virus.

RobMc59 · 21-03-2021 05:40PM

Strazdas wrote: »

I would say it is a mixed bag at the moment. Smaller countries like Ireland and Denmark seem to be doing a great job at getting available vaccines out to people. For some reason, the bigger states like France and Germany appear to be messing up and leaving vaccines on the shelves.

News outlets in the UK are reporting that in France and Germany the doubt created by their governments has made the people reluctant to have the AstraZeneca jab.

mick087 · 21-03-2021 05:57PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

News outlets in the UK are reporting that in France and Germany the doubt created by their governments has made the people reluctant to have the AstraZeneca jab.

Not just Germany and France there are a few of the elected governments of Europe that have put fuel on the fire of vaccine hesitancy.

Danzy · 21-03-2021 06:15PM

Strazdas wrote: »

If the British media and public were simply blowing their own trumpet and saying what a great job of the vaccine rollout they were doing, nobody would even bat an eyelid.

It's the fact that they are doing it at the EU's expense that is grating : "We are doing a fantastic job, whilst the corrupt / evil / incompetent EU are a shambles and are trying to steal our vaccines. This proves we were right all along to Brexit". This is just Grade A propaganda and gaslighting.

Always someone else to blame.

NeuralNetwork · 21-03-2021 06:28PM

mick087 wrote: »

Not just Germany and France there are a few of the elected governments of Europe that have put fuel on the fire of vaccine hesitancy.

France genuinely does have an enormous problem with anti-vaxxers. I wouldn’t agree with the British analysis of many things but the vaccine scepticism around some parts of the continent is really a huge challenge and they are correct in that analysis.

20% of French people have strong confidence in the AZ vaccine and only 52% in Pfizer/BioNTech:

https://www.bfmtv.com/sante/sondage-bfmtv-seulement-20-des-francais-font-confiance-au-vaccin-astra-zeneca-contre-52-a-pfizer_AN-202103160351.html

To be fair, there are more on the fence but, it’s still shockingly low compared to here or the U.K.

There’s a distinct possibility certain countries may just fail to get to herd immunity despite abundant vaccines.

You’re going to need to get 75% of the population on board and in some places that will be serious struggle.

is_that_so · 21-03-2021 06:45PM

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

France genuinely does have an enormous problem with anti-vaxxers. I wouldn’t agree with the British analysis of many things but the vaccine scepticism around some parts of the continent is really a huge challenge and they are correct in that analysis.

20% of French people have strong confidence in the AZ vaccine and only 52% in Pfizer/BioNTech:

https://www.bfmtv.com/sante/sondage-bfmtv-seulement-20-des-francais-font-confiance-au-vaccin-astra-zeneca-contre-52-a-pfizer_AN-202103160351.html

To be fair, there are more on the fence but, it’s still shockingly low compared to here or the U.K.

There’s a distinct possibility certain countries may just fail to get to herd immunity despite abundant vaccines.

You’re going to need to get 75% of the population on board and in some places that will be serious struggle.

Just 25% likely to get a shot in the Philippines.

Strazdas · 21-03-2021 06:46PM

One good piece of news is that the HSE report they saw no evidence of hesitancy with AstraZeneca yesterday (it probably helps that Irish media coverage was measured and balanced this week and didn't go in for any hysteria or sensational headlines).

mick087 · 21-03-2021 08:31PM

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

France genuinely does have an enormous problem with anti-vaxxers. I wouldn’t agree with the British analysis of many things but the vaccine scepticism around some parts of the continent is really a huge challenge and they are correct in that analysis.

20% of French people have strong confidence in the AZ vaccine and only 52% in Pfizer/BioNTech:

https://www.bfmtv.com/sante/sondage-bfmtv-seulement-20-des-francais-font-confiance-au-vaccin-astra-zeneca-contre-52-a-pfizer_AN-202103160351.html

To be fair, there are more on the fence but, it’s still shockingly low compared to here or the U.K.

There’s a distinct possibility certain countries may just fail to get to herd immunity despite abundant vaccines.

You’re going to need to get 75% of the population on board and in some places that will be serious struggle.

France have a big problem with vaccine scepticism.

Macron locking down France late in the day when the 3rd wave was taking off knowing the French was sceptical about vaccines was is a error.

Macron saying the vaccine appeared “quasi-ineffective on people older than 65 was not good at all.

This is all very worrying.

WoollyRedHat · 21-03-2021 09:58PM

Good news, AstraZeneca expects EU approval for their Halix plant by March 25th. https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2BD0RZ?il=0&__twitter_impression=true

Wolf359f · 21-03-2021 10:01PM

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Good news, AstraZeneca expects EU approval for their Halix plant by March 25th.

Pfff no good news is allowed, especially on a day with higher than average case numbers!

One would think AZ would have sought approval sooner, at least they could appear to be looking to fulfill the EU contract.
It's a scary thought, if Pfizer/Biontech's vaccine failed, the world would be really ****ed with vaccines.

WoollyRedHat · 21-03-2021 10:05PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Pfff no good news is allowed, especially on a day with higher than average case numbers!

One would think AZ would have sought approval sooner, at least they could appear to be looking to fulfill the EU contract.
It's a scary thought, if Pfizer/Biontech's vaccine failed, the world would be really ****ed with vaccines.

Was saying this today to someone. It was obviously a deliberate ploy by them, probably encouraged by the UK, as they don't have to supply vaccines from a factory that has not been approved. It looks like once approved on March 25th that all stockpiles from Halix will be released to Europe, with.no supplies exported to UK until EU catches up.

Strazdas · 21-03-2021 10:06PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Pfff no good news is allowed, especially on a day with higher than average case numbers!

One would think AZ would have sought approval sooner, at least they could appear to be looking to fulfill the EU contract.
It's a scary thought, if Pfizer/Biontech's vaccine failed, the world would be really ****ed with vaccines.

Apparently, we're back to dodgy stuff on the part of AZ again. It seems they deliberately stalled in seeking EMA approval and the EMA were very unhappy with them.

Wolf359f · 21-03-2021 10:10PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Apparently, we're back to dodgy stuff on the part of AZ again. It seems they deliberately stalled in seeking EMA approval and the EMA were very unhappy with them.

Yeah it was kinda obvious, especially with rumours of them having 10mil doses ready and the same time the UK tries to get 10mil from SII in India.
Funny enough the Indian government only allowed 5mil to be shipped, you don't hear about India blocking supplies to the UK now do you?

BonnieSituation · 21-03-2021 10:13PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Apparently, we're back to dodgy stuff on the part of AZ again. It seems they deliberately stalled in seeking EMA approval and the EMA were very unhappy with them.

Surely you couldn't be implying that AZ and their antics are playing havoc with people's opinion of them and affecting the willingness to take the jab? Surely not?

RobMc59 wrote: »

News outlets in the UK are reporting that in France and Germany the doubt created by their governments has made the people reluctant to have the AstraZeneca jab.

Cos Strazdas, (mysterious) UK news outlets are reporting otherwise.

Strazdas · 21-03-2021 10:40PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Surely you couldn't be implying that AZ and their antics are playing havoc with people's opinion of them and affecting the willingness to take the jab? Surely not?

Cos Strazdas, (mysterious) UK news outlets are reporting otherwise.

Haha

I'd love to know what sort of a hold Johnson has over AZ? Why are they bending over backwards to keep him and the Tory govt happy, even if their international reputation takes a hammering in the process? It's really odd.

murphaph · 21-03-2021 10:45PM

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Was saying this today to someone. It was obviously a deliberate ploy by them, probably encouraged by the UK, as they don't have to supply vaccines from a factory that has not been approved. It looks like once approved on March 25th that all stockpiles from Halix will be released to Europe, with.no supplies exported to UK until EU catches up.

Good and I hope doses are shipped directly to countries with low resistance to the AZ vaccine. I'm in Germany. There are about a million doses of AZ in storage here already. Ship it somewhere else that can get it into people's arms.

Wolf359f · 21-03-2021 10:48PM

murphaph wrote: »

Good and I hope doses are shipped directly to countries with low resistance to the AZ vaccine. I'm in Germany. There are about a million doses of AZ in storage here already. Ship it somewhere else that can get it into people's arms.

You would almost need countries like that to refuse the delivery. That way when their public kicks up stink, their Government can tell them, either take up the offer cause we won't stockpile it etc...
May make the public more willing to take it?

Bit cynical · 21-03-2021 11:08PM

Strazdas wrote: »

It's the fact that they are doing it at the EU's expense that is grating : "We are doing a fantastic job, whilst the corrupt / evil / incompetent EU are a shambles and are trying to steal our vaccines. This proves we were right all along to Brexit". This is just Grade A propaganda and gaslighting.

In fairness though, were it not for Brexit, the UK would be sufferring the same EU shambles of a rollout as Ireland and the other member states are suffering. It is only right, therefore, that this is pointed out.

Wolf359f · 21-03-2021 11:12PM

Bit cynical wrote: »

In fairness though, were it not for Brexit, the UK would be sufferring the same EU shambles of a rollout as Ireland and the other member states are suffering. It is only right, therefore, that this is pointed out.

What has Brexit got to do with the EU vaccine procurement scheme. It was optional to all EU countries. Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein are not even in the EU, but opted into the scheme.

Bit cynical · 21-03-2021 11:15PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

What has Brexit got to do with the EU vaccine procurement scheme. It was optional to all EU countries. Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein are not even in the EU, but opted into the scheme.

They are in the EEA which participates in most of the EU's programmes.

Wolf359f · 21-03-2021 11:18PM

Bit cynical wrote: »

They are in the EEA which participates in most of the EU's programmes.

But the scheme was optional. EU countries or EEA countries were NOT forced to participate. You can argue that because of the transition period, the UK was in the EU for all intents and purposes yet didn't have to or want to sign up. It has nothing to do with brexit.
Maybe you also believe the UK were able to approve vaccines faster because of brexit also?

Red Silurian · 21-03-2021 11:21PM

Sputnik V has applied for EMA approval, the company behind it say they have 50m doses ready to go and more will be manufactured in Italy and Germany

Is it time for our politicians to grow a pair, bypass the EMA and approve and distribute this vaccine?

Wolf359f · 21-03-2021 11:24PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

Sputnik V has applied for EMA approval, the company behind it say they have 50m doses ready to go and more will be manufactured in Italy and Germany

Is it time for our politicians to grow a pair, bypass the EMA and approve and distribute this vaccine?

I'm sure they can approve Sinopharm also, just tick a few boxes and bingo.
Would you be happy with that also?
Personally, I'd rather wait for the EMA to approve any vaccine before I'd be taking it.

murphaph · 21-03-2021 11:26PM

Bit cynical wrote: »

In fairness though, were it not for Brexit, the UK would be sufferring the same EU shambles of a rollout as Ireland and the other member states are suffering. It is only right, therefore, that this is pointed out.

Hungary and Malta did their own thing while being full member states. Malta is even using the Sinovac stuff.

Brexit had nothing whatsoever to do with it. The UK has a long history of opting out of community initiatives so it would have almost been expected.

By the way, Ireland would currently be competing against two dozen of the world's wealthiest countries for doses right now if the EU had played no role in procurement. That would have led to even bigger problems.

I honestly believe we'll soon have more supply than we can administer. A few more weeks or so.

murphaph · 21-03-2021 11:29PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

Sputnik V has applied for EMA approval, the company behind it say they have 50m doses ready to go and more will be manufactured in Italy and Germany

Is it time for our politicians to grow a pair, bypass the EMA and approve and distribute this vaccine?

Nope but if and when the EMA approves it we should buy it with our EU partners.

The EMA isn't some snail. It approved Moderna well before the UK and approved AZ well before the US.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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