Wifi mesh systems

irelandspurs · 17-03-2021 8:40am

Can powerline adapters still be used with m4s?

motley · 17-03-2021 9:06am

This is a novice question that has probably been asked before. Can I setup a mesh network with different brand devices?
I have a Fritzbox router and Tp-link mesh extender. Trying to figure out how they would work together or should I just get a Tp-link router?

17-03-2021 11:04am

irelandspurs wrote: »

Can powerline adapters still be used with m4s?

Yes

funkey_monkey · 17-03-2021 2:05pm

Hi,

I need to get a reliable internet connection in an attic for a PTZ IP camera. Camera is to be powered by POE (802.3at).
I've no way to put a cable from router into attic directly.
I was considering using a powerline adapter, but was wondering if there was another (better) solution.

The powerline would require 802.3at POE and passthrough would help greatly. There is a SkyQ setup in the house with a mini box directly below the required area in attic.
As it is not my property I do not know what signal strength is in the attic from the Sky Mesh and/or whether it would be suitable.
The intention was that further down the line, some security cameras would be added into the system so had a preference for a wired connection.
At that stage, a POE network switch would be located in the shed into which all the cameras would feed into and the network would link from the switch back to the NVR in the attic which would be wired into the internet.

RangeR · 17-03-2021 4:53pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Hi,

I need to get a reliable internet connection in an attic for a PTZ IP camera. Camera is to be powered by POE (802.3at).
I've no way to put a cable from router into attic directly.
I was considering using a powerline adapter, but was wondering if there was another (better) solution.

The powerline would require 802.3at POE and passthrough would help greatly. There is a SkyQ setup in the house with a mini box directly below the required area in attic.
As it is not my property I do not know what signal strength is in the attic from the Sky Mesh and/or whether it would be suitable.
The intention was that further down the line, some security cameras would be added into the system so had a preference for a wired connection.
At that stage, a POE network switch would be located in the shed into which all the cameras would feed into and the network would link from the switch back to the NVR in the attic which would be wired into the internet.

1. Is there an electrical outlet [not light fitting] in the attic. This is a requirement for PowerLine.
2. Just get up to your attic now and run WIFI Analyser on your mobile. This will tell you how strong the wifi signal is. Shouldn't take more than a few minutes. But see point 5 below.

3. It might be better to get a regular, fast, powerline adapter and a separate POE injector like this.
4. One of your prerequisites is a reliable connection. Only cable will give you this. Powerline, in my experience, needs to be power cycled every few months. Although it's been about 3-5 years since I used one regularly.
5. Bare in mind, CCTV over WIFI is hit and miss, at best. Recording/Viewing will be heavily dependent on the number of devices connected to that AP, available wifi [not internet] bandwidth and environmental factors. I would strongly dissuade anyone from CCTV over WIFI.

Is this attic camera for viewing the attic or positioned to view outside the house? If outside the house, would you consider fixing it to the external wall and run a cable out an air vent? No drilling of hols required for that cable.

funkey_monkey · 17-03-2021 7:13pm

RangeR wrote: »

1. Is there an electrical outlet [not light fitting] in the attic. This is a requirement for PowerLine.
2. Just get up to your attic now and run WIFI Analyser on your mobile. This will tell you how strong the wifi signal is. Shouldn't take more than a few minutes. But see point 5 below.

3. It might be better to get a regular, fast, powerline adapter and a separate POE injector like this.
4. One of your prerequisites is a reliable connection. Only cable will give you this. Powerline, in my experience, needs to be power cycled every few months. Although it's been about 3-5 years since I used one regularly.
5. Bare in mind, CCTV over WIFI is hit and miss, at best. Recording/Viewing will be heavily dependent on the number of devices connected to that AP, available wifi [not internet] bandwidth and environmental factors. I would strongly dissuade anyone from CCTV over WIFI.

Is this attic camera for viewing the attic or positioned to view outside the house? If outside the house, would you consider fixing it to the external wall and run a cable out an air vent? No drilling of hols required for that cable.

1. Yes - double socket
2. Homeowner has been asked - will report back
3. Will look at that
4. I'm trying to get as close to cable reliability as I can
5. See 4

The PTZ camera will be in a cattle shed approx 20m from the house. the plan is to run a single Cat5 cable from house out to shed into camera. At a later date, there might be a network switch in shed feeding a number of security cameras (plus this PTZ) - with the network cable going between the network switch in shed back into a NVR in the attic which would be connected to internet.

The problem is that the router is in the centre of the house - not adjacent to any external walls. The area it is located was recently decorated. The floor is wood so I can't hide it under carpeting.
If I thought there was a way to get the network cable up the conduit for the double socket (near the router) alongside the twin+earth then I would consider that option, but I'm not sure how I could do that without it being a bodge job.
the only thing I can think of is getting a double socket spacer and boring a hole in base of it and feeding the cable up into attic. It's only 12mm deep, but Cat5e is 6mm, so should be okay if assembled carefully.
However, I don't know about the ramifications of putting network cabling up the same conduit drop as a power cable.

21XBgfbRQTL._AC_.jpg

funkey_monkey · 17-03-2021 7:35pm

As I thought, it looks like that might be against code to run it up the same conduit as power.

17-03-2021 7:58pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »

As I thought, it looks like that might be against code to run it up the same conduit as power.

Shouldn't really be an issue running it beside SWA (steel wire armour)

funkey_monkey · 17-03-2021 9:59pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Shouldn't really be an issue running it beside SWA (steel wire armour)

It would be in conduit alongside t+e - which isn't allowed.
So need some other options.

funkey_monkey · 18-03-2021 2:43pm

I have been looking at powerlines, but I've been told they are not overly reliable and drop out - requiring a reset.

Struggling to find a way of getting a reliable internet connection in attic without chasing into wall or tacking cables up the wall.

Clareman · 18-03-2021 4:17pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »

I have been looking at powerlines, but I've been told they are not overly reliable and drop out - requiring a reset.

Struggling to find a way of getting a reliable internet connection in attic without chasing into wall or tacking cables up the wall.

I might be just lucky with the ones I have but mine are rock solid, very rarely require a reset and are constantly in use.

funkey_monkey · 18-03-2021 4:40pm

Clareman wrote: »

I might be just lucky with the ones I have but mine are rock solid, very rarely require a reset and are constantly in use.

What ones do you have?

RangeR · 18-03-2021 4:50pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »

I have been looking at powerlines, but I've been told they are not overly reliable and drop out - requiring a reset.

Struggling to find a way of getting a reliable internet connection in attic without chasing into wall or tacking cables up the wall.

Maybe a point to point fixed wireless solution. No idea on cost but basically you put a dish on the house and a dish on the shed and just make sure they are absolute line of site. Saves running cable. Go high or go home.

Edit : Maybe something like this. Get two. A bit out of my specialty so not sure what other hardware you would need. A bitta research would be needed.

Edit 2 : Ok, looks like good news. They are actually simple to install and set up. Here is a sample youtube tutorial [I didn't watch it all]

The dish on your house must connect to your home networks in some way, ideally back to the router.
The dish in the shed, it connects to a switch to which you can connect other devices.
The dish to dish transmission is only max 100Mbps but they are cheap and I don't think you need more than that for one camera. I'd say that speed would be fine for multiple cameras, then some.

This could be a winner for you. They do require POE but a POE injector is supplied with each dish. winner.

This will be much better than powerline or standard WIFI, but obviously not as good as direct cable connection.

Clareman · 18-03-2021 5:46pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »

What ones do you have?

I've these, looking at my order history I got them in November 2015, I have 3 of them in use around the house at the moment, 1 connected to the router, 1 to the office and 1 to a TV that doesn't have WiFi, that TV hasn't been used in ages now that I think of it. I've the burgler alarm, Hue hub, server and laptop connected to it, all working perfectly (touch wood).

funkey_monkey · 18-03-2021 7:03pm

RangeR wrote: »

Maybe a point to point fixed wireless solution. No idea on cost but basically you put a dish on the house and a dish on the shed and just make sure they are absolute line of site. Saves running cable. Go high or go home.

Edit : Maybe something like this. Get two. A bit out of my specialty so not sure what other hardware you would need. A bitta research would be needed.

Edit 2 : Ok, looks like good news. They are actually simple to install and set up. Here is a sample youtube tutorial [I didn't watch it all]

The dish on your house must connect to your home networks in some way, ideally back to the router.
The dish in the shed, it connects to a switch to which you can connect other devices.
The dish to dish transmission is only max 100Mbps but they are cheap and I don't think you need more than that for one camera. I'd say that speed would be fine for multiple cameras, then some.

This could be a winner for you. They do require POE but a POE injector is supplied with each dish. winner.

This will be much better than powerline or standard WIFI, but obviously not as good as direct cable connection.

Hi RangeR - thanks for the reply. My problem is the first part - getting the signal from the router to the attic. I can easily wire the connection from house to shed. Problem is getting a reliable signal from router in centre of house to the attic in order to send it out to the shed.
So, if I was to opt for your solution I would still have the issue of getting the dish to connect to the home network

I done a speed test on my mobile in the attic and the results were:

Ping: 22ms

Download: 38.65Mbps
- Stability: 98%
- Tx'ed data: 45.41MB

Upload: 9.91Mbps
- Stability: 98%
- Tx'ed data: 12.31MB

The socket in attic is on same ring main as the socket beside router.

54and56 · 18-03-2021 9:50pm

Big shout out and thanks to @RangeR, @WLad and all the others who have held my hand over the last few weeks as I transitioned from a 12 year old VM Cisco modem and a similar age ASUS router struggling to get my 200mb D/L 20mb U/L around my house to a new VM Hitron modem and a TaoTronics Tri-Band AC3000 Mesh system serving my new 300mb D/L 30mb U/L all round and a good bit outside my house.

The speed test below is from the location which pre Mesh was struggling to get 15mb D/L speed.

Happy family of WFH parents and online students now.

Kudos to you all.

Hurrache · 19-03-2021 11:58am

irelandspurs wrote: »

Is there any issues using the m4's with sky Q boxes, I've purchased these for a neighbour and just noticed he has a main sky Q and 1 Q mini box.

If his broadband is with Sky, and as he has Sky Q, the Q boxes then work as a mesh system so shouldn't be any need for M4s.

WLad · 19-03-2021 12:21pm

Hurrache wrote: »

If his broadband is with Sky, and as he has Sky Q, the Q boxes then work as a mesh system so shouldn't be any need for M4s.

While true I've found the sky q mesh to just not be good. There's also no option to use an ethernet backhaul.

Hurrache · 19-03-2021 4:02pm

I had it for a few years and it was pretty good, never had issues. I only remembered they implement it when I removed their broadband service and all my previous issues of blackspots etc came back to haunt me.

It's more than adequate for the vast majority of users. I myself am a heavy user and have no interest in trying to get ethernet anywhere in the house, I simple don't need it.

funkey_monkey · 19-03-2021 5:48pm

Hurrache wrote: »

If his broadband is with Sky, and as he has Sky Q, the Q boxes then work as a mesh system so shouldn't be any need for M4s.

Can SkyQ not work as a mesh if you connect a BT (other service providers are available) router into the main SkyQ box ethernet port?

FastFullBack · 20-03-2021 9:49pm

Hey, I've read through this full thread over the last few days. I'm moving into a new rental house in about 6 weeks that is big; 2 storey and over 2000 sq ft. It's also rural and limited to 30MB broadband so I want to get the best setup to ensure the best WiFi coverage I can to get the best from the 30MB.
I've seen a few comments saying a good router should be the first thing to try before a mesh system so I'm thinking to try that first. I'd like to spend around 150 ish on this.
This is the one I've picked so far; https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B07YN5496D/?smid=A1X0M9U5WW1195&tag=idealocom-mp-21&linkCode=asn&creative=6742&camp=1638&creativeASIN=B07YN5496D&ascsubtag=ZCZdF8g6yFxyPpAlQ2bVTA&th=1&psc=1&ref_=d6k_applink_bb_marketplace

Does this look good or any other recommendations?

Hurrache · 20-03-2021 9:55pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Can SkyQ not work as a mesh if you connect a BT (other service providers are available) router into the main SkyQ box ethernet port?

No, it only works with Sky Broadband.

Clareman · 20-03-2021 11:24pm

FastFullBack wrote: »

Hey, I've read through this full thread over the last few days. I'm moving into a new rental house in about 6 weeks that is big; 2 storey and over 2000 sq ft. It's also rural and limited to 30MB broadband so I want to get the best setup to ensure the best WiFi coverage I can to get the best from the 30MB.
I've seen a few comments saying a good router should be the first thing to try before a mesh system so I'm thinking to try that first. I'd like to spend around 150 ish on this.
This is the one I've picked so far; https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B07YN5496D/?smid=A1X0M9U5WW1195&tag=idealocom-mp-21&linkCode=asn&creative=6742&camp=1638&creativeASIN=B07YN5496D&ascsubtag=ZCZdF8g6yFxyPpAlQ2bVTA&th=1&psc=1&ref_=d6k_applink_bb_marketplace

Does this look good or any other recommendations?

At 30MB total speed I wouldn't be too worried about the local network to be honest, without knowing how many devices you are hoping to connect I'd guess that the ISP supplied router will be able to give some kind of WiFi coverage everywhere within the 2,000sqm, mighn't be the fastest local speed but even at the weakest connection they'll all have 30MB.

FastFullBack · 20-03-2021 11:35pm

Clareman wrote: »

At 30MB total speed I wouldn't be too worried about the local network to be honest, without knowing how many devices you are hoping to connect I'd guess that the ISP supplied router will be able to give some kind of WiFi coverage everywhere within the 2,000sqm, mighn't be the fastest local speed but even at the weakest connection they'll all have 30MB.

Thanks. Probably 15-20 devices connected. I'll connect the 2 TVs and work laptops via powerlines.

The supplied router is this one https://www.tp-link.com/us/home-networking/wifi-router/tl-wr841n/.

Will this cover the house so do you think?

Clareman · 20-03-2021 11:51pm

I've used those a couple of times, they're rock solid, not massive work horses but they'll do a job.

In my opinion, you should look at the weakest point and improve that before looking at anything else. You've a WiFi router that's 10 times faster than your incoming internet connection, the problem with it is that it's maximum range is 70 meters, how many devices will be beyond that that won't be on powerlines?

20-03-2021 11:55pm

A better wireless router will give faster speeds, but not further distance as this will be hindered by walls and ceilings. You are better to wait and see how you get on first

dreamers75 · 20-03-2021 11:57pm

Got google mesh and one point, its quite good.

Was quite shocked with how good it is.

Clareman · 20-03-2021 11:59pm

dreamers75 wrote: »

Got google mesh and one point, its quite good.

Was quite shocked with how good it is.

It really is isn't it, it's just good and easy to use and it just works.

FastFullBack · 21-03-2021 12:07am

Clareman wrote: »

I've used those a couple of times, they're rock solid, not massive work horses but they'll do a job.

In my opinion, you should look at the weakest point and improve that before looking at anything else. You've a WiFi router that's 10 times faster than your incoming internet connection, the problem with it is that it's maximum range is 70 meters, how many devices will be beyond that that won't be on powerlines?

Perfect thanks. 70 meters should cover the house so I doubt I'll have any devices beyond that. I'll give it a go I think anyway and see what it's like once I'm in. Thanks. You've saved me €150+

Clareman · 21-03-2021 12:18am

FastFullBack wrote: »

Perfect thanks. 70 meters should cover the house so I doubt I'll have any devices beyond that. I'll give it a go I think anyway and see what it's like once I'm in. Thanks. You've saved me €150+

There's an awful lot of stuff that could get in the way, even something like a fish tank could cause a deadspot somewhere but I'd say try the place first and if you need something then we can figure it out, but don't be buying anything without trying it first.

Wifi mesh systems

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