Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings

Necro · 20-03-2021 10:48AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Again, what do you actually disagree with?

One thing I've noticed about people like yourself is that you'll continue to try and denigrate the speaker and wave it off with smart comments and "jokes"

Listen to the clip and then come back to me with what he specifically said that you believe is wrong

the kelt wrote: »

Attack the person go after people rather than engage in what they’re saying. Hmmm

Mod:

How many times does this warning have to be posted? Discuss the topic, not other posters. If you can't post in a civil manner then don't post here, that applies to everyone not just the two posts I've quoted.

You are entitled to any viewpoint you wish on the restrictions as long as you discuss it in a civil manner.

ceadaoin. · 20-03-2021 10:53AM

I'm finding it hard to understand wtf is going on ireland, and in Europe tbh. All my friends and family in ireland and the UK are against lockdowns but still they happen. I've been living a fairly normal life since last May and everything is fine. We have fewer cases than Ireland now with a similarish population. Actually the case numbers and deaths overall are pretty much identical. So it's not like there is no evidence to say that not locking down doesnt mean certain death, its everywhere, all over the world in places that didn't lock down or have had less restrictive measures! So why is the EU still insisting on lockdowns as the primary means of controlling the virus?

FintanMcluskey · 20-03-2021 10:58AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I'm finding it hard to understand wtf is going on ireland, and in Europe tbh. All my friends and family in ireland and the UK are against lockdowns but still they happen. I've been living a fairly normal life since last May and everything is fine. We have fewer cases than Ireland now with a similarish population. Actually the case numbers and deaths overall are pretty much identical. So it's not like there is no evidence to say that not locking down doesnt mean certain death, its everywhere, all over the world in places that didn't lock down or have had less restrictive measures! So why is the EU still insisting on lockdowns as the primary means of controlling the virus?

No, most EU countries are using lockdown sparingly and targeted to reduce case numbers when they rise uncontrollably.

Ireland is using consistent lockdown “in case numbers rise” without any concern for the sunk costs

Szero · 20-03-2021 11:02AM

JTMan wrote: »

Irish times reports today here and the Irish Independent here on the relaxation of restrictions.

- Construction of houses to be allowed from 5 April but not offices.
- Construction of offices to be allowed from 19 April. (review after 2 weeks).
- 5 KM to be changed to 10 KM or 20 KM or inside your own county.

Too little. Far too little. Have the government not got the message that we have had ENOUGH of their most strict lockdown in Europe?

Can we have a PLAN?

Can we also have some MEANINGFUL reduction in restrictions to make life happier? e.g. dates for low risk items that would make a big different to people such as non-essential retail/gyms? Even if the government say this will happen on 1 May it would make a big difference.

paddyisreal · 20-03-2021 11:03AM

RobitTV wrote: »

Irish Times: If Covid-19 cases remain high travel restrictions could be expanded only to 10km or perhaps 8km

Oooh exciting guys!

The muppets in government are going will be forced to have the restrictions lifted very similar to Northern Ireland in early April. I expect the 5k to go, sports training allowed and church's to have 20 people or some ****e.

DellyBelly · 20-03-2021 11:06AM

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Can't wait to go 10k. Said no one ever

I will.. It would mean I could get to the beach. I see they are touting 8km as well which seems a stupid number. I pray though its the ten.. Would be a massive boost for people's mental health I think.

facehugger99 · 20-03-2021 11:08AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I'm finding it hard to understand wtf is going on ireland, and in Europe tbh. All my friends and family in ireland and the UK are against lockdowns but still they happen. I've been living a fairly normal life since last May and everything is fine. We have fewer cases than Ireland now with a similarish population. Actually the case numbers and deaths overall are pretty much identical. So it's not like there is no evidence to say that not locking down doesnt mean certain death, its everywhere, all over the world in places that didn't lock down or have had less restrictive measures! So why is the EU still insisting on lockdowns as the primary means of controlling the virus?

The EU isn't. Most EU countries have had a vastly different approach to Covid compared to Ireland. I traveled in both Spain and Italy last year and it was like being on a different planet. Nightclubs, bars, waterparks, cinemas - all open.

Our approach is primarily driven by politicians who are afraid of being called 'granny-killers' on social-media.

They have established a gerrymandered committee designed to spit out only one answer - lockdown. This gets them off the hook from having to make any decision and insulates them from a future tribunal of inquiry. They can simply parrot the line that they were following the 'advice'.

In reality, NPHET is jury-rigged to only give a single answer to the question, not a spectrum of opinions or options. It is stocked with 39 nodding dogs who all sing from the same hymn sheet when Tony stops talking.

The economic reality of what is being done to the country has crossed into the criminal as far as I'm concerned. There will be many more deaths as a result of both the response and the coming cuts to services which will be required to pay back this debt mountain.

The current Government is burning through multiple billions every single month. A reckoning is coming. When the young people finally wake up and realise what has been done to their country and their futures, they will turn to radical solutions and radical politicians for answers - it is always thus.

The cowardly response to Covid is going to be felt for years, perhaps even decades to come - it is not going to be good.

Boggles · 20-03-2021 11:10AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I'm finding it hard to understand wtf is going on ireland, and in Europe tbh. All my friends and family in ireland and the UK are against lockdowns but still they happen. I've been living a fairly normal life since last May and everything is fine. We have fewer cases than Ireland now with a similarish population. Actually the case numbers and deaths overall are pretty much identical. So it's not like there is no evidence to say that not locking down doesnt mean certain death, its everywhere, all over the world in places that didn't lock down or have had less restrictive measures! So why is the EU still insisting on lockdowns as the primary means of controlling the virus?

Restrictions only work as an overall package. The financial part is an important aspect, amongst various other things.

You live in a country where the previous President decided to go golfing for the weekend instead of signing an urgent relief bill for the pandemic. He also hosted super spreader events that led to people dying, amongst other things but we will park them.

So over 4 million people hospitalized and over 550,000 people dead.

Do you think countries in Europe should listen to pontification from that basket case? What could Finland learn?

Bit like Harold Shipman lecturing on bedside manner.

gozunda · 20-03-2021 11:13AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He is doing as he always does, selective rants focusing on small aspects of a broader picture while making sure to get “l, as an award winning journalist” into the conversation. He is an egoist, continually ranting about Ireland, be it government, Dublin Gaa, rugby, nphet, you name it, while living the life flitting between Portugal and Brazil

I listened to that interview and had to turn it off as the guy was unlistenable to jumping from one random point to another

He quoted long outdated announcements from the WHO about restrictions as a backup to his opinions

He effectively spent the entire section to ranting.

Big lad and an expat not even living here telling everyone here that we're wrong and how he knows better.

He complained about his fellow journalists ostracised him. I'm not surprised tbh. If those in his own profession can't put up with him - then its unlikely everyone else is wrong

fin12 · 20-03-2021 11:17AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

"The changes on April 5 will be very limited and it will be mid-May before they are loosened again."

That's all you need to read, the rest is just filler. And NPHET "advising" unrealistic targets like <100 cases daily is rubbing salt, the government happy to remain whipped and not dare break rank with their overlords. Where is that general election when you need it, another two months of this limbo beyond depressing. For goodness sake, step on the gas with those vaccines and stop beating impossible yardsticks into the ground.

I just Facebook messaged Michael Healy rae , I hope he replies.

FintanMcluskey · 20-03-2021 11:21AM

fin12 wrote: »

I just Facebook messaged Michael Healy rae , I hope he replies.

Jeasus, any port in a storm I suppose

fin12 · 20-03-2021 11:23AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Jeasus, any port in a storm I suppose

Sure who else would I contact? I might have some hope with him

FintanMcluskey · 20-03-2021 11:27AM

fin12 wrote: »

Sure who else would I contact? I might have some hope with him

By all means a very influential family

The best maintained roads in Ireland are in Kerry, despite the fact they don’t actually go anywhere

Stormyteacup · 20-03-2021 11:29AM

Good article in the IT today explaining the nuances behind the nonsense argument that NPHET only advise..

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/frustrations-simmer-as-nphet-and-government-muddle-through-1.4515096

"A senior official says there is a “central problem” with the power located in Nphet, namely that “focusing purely on the disease leads to a certain view”. Other criticisms from politicians, advisers and officials are well-rehearsed: that the team is unwieldy, full of civil servants, has been slow to act on issues like masking and antigen testing, and ultimately retains too much agenda-setting power. Some on the political side also argue the chief medical officer is too central. “Locating all the institutional power of Nphet in one individual means they carry too much power and too much responsibility.”

Privately, many Nphet members don’t dispute the unusual extent of its powers. One remarks on the sheer unlikeliness of how policy developed: “We had a meeting at midnight, and the next day the Government says everyone must stay in their house.”

It is, the member continues, “an ad hoc technocratic structure inserted into the decision-making process of government in a not necessarily well-thought-through way”, but ultimately, “the advice is good and [the Government] needs the advice”. While there have been moves to reform or restructure Nphet, they have all fallen away due to concerns over optics, or the competing priorities of the pandemic."

Morries Wigs · 20-03-2021 11:40AM

Mickey Martin looks scared to go down to the shop he's calling the shots we're doomed to more lockdowns with him 2nd in command to Tony

Del Griffith · 20-03-2021 11:46AM

Seymour20 wrote: »

First of all the UK variant is far more transmissible which influences the rate of spread especially indoors and secondly there’s a much higher baseline of disease in the community now compared to last summer. This means if we do open up like we did last summer with the current numbers we would have a Christmas 2.0.

Even if we did it shouldn't matter a **** because with the at risk categories vaccinated there won't be any increase in hospital numbers.
What miniscule outliers there are that do need medical attention will easily be able to get it too for the same reason.

Reminder: Ireland is supposedly in lockdown to allow the health services to cope.

Sharpyshoot · 20-03-2021 11:49AM

Morries Wigs wrote: »

Mickey Martin looks scared to go down to the shop he's calling the shots we're doomed to more lockdowns with him 2nd in command to Tony

Martin and Tony’s day are numbered. The country is fed up of them.

Del Griffith · 20-03-2021 11:51AM

gozunda wrote: »

I listened to that interview and had to turn it off as the guy was unlistenable to jumping from one random point to another

He quoted long outdated announcements from the WHO about restrictions as a backup to his opinions

He effectively spent the entire section to ranting.

Big lad and an expat not even living here telling everyone here that we're wrong and how he knows better.

He complained about his fellow journalists ostracised him. I'm not surprised tbh. If those in his own profession can't put up with him - then its unlikely everyone else is wrong

Sure how would you know when you turned it off?

Must be great blocking out everything that differs from your own preset opinion

SEPT 23 1989 · 20-03-2021 11:55AM

COVID must be the most advanced disease we have ever known

It knows the difference between social and commercial construction

gozunda · 20-03-2021 11:57AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I'm finding it hard to understand wtf is going on ireland, and in Europe tbh. All my friends and family in ireland and the UK are against lockdowns but still they happen. I've been living a fairly normal life since last May and everything is fine. We have fewer cases than Ireland now with a similarish population. Actually the case numbers and deaths overall are pretty much identical. So it's not like there is no evidence to say that not locking down doesnt mean certain death, its everywhere, all over the world in places that didn't lock down or have had less restrictive measures! So why is the EU still insisting on lockdowns as the primary means of controlling the virus?

Not sure there is logic in what youre saying.

You say where you live has lower case numbers and have less restrictions?

And we have higher case numbers and currently have restrictions to prevent case numbers climbing like they did here at Christmas when the restrictions were rolled back

But you don't understand that?

And also think restrictions are wrong because "not locking down doesnt mean certain death"

Eh?

Yes the virus is everywhere - hence a pandemic. Europe is one of the most densely populated regions in the world. Individual countries there are attempting to manage the rate of new cases so that national health services don't become overwhelmed.

And it's a fact that in many places that didn't lock down or had less restrictions - the infection rate and the death rate have been extremely high - the two at the top are the US and Brazil. Other countries such as Australia and New Zealand have effectively sealed their borders to enable the lowering of internal restrictions.

And simply because some people don't like restrictions - doesn't mean that the experts are going to suddenly say "ah sure lads - its grand - fire away". Rather most countries are going to continue to try and keep down the rate of infection in the medium term until at least they get a critical mass of people vaccinated.

Xaniaj · 20-03-2021 12:02PM

DellyBelly wrote: »

I will.. It would mean I could get to the beach. I see they are touting 8km as well which seems a stupid number. I pray though its the ten.. Would be a massive boost for people's mental health I think.

10km will have no meaningful impact for the majority of people. It's absolutely ridiculous that they're actually considering this as some sort of 'lifting restrictions'.

Thelonious Monk · 20-03-2021 12:05PM

I went to off licence last night and the traffic and amount of people everywhere seemed like a normal pre covid Friday night.
I really don't think that many are adhering to any rules any more.
Someone mentioned Spain, I was there for 7 weeks last summer and life was going on as normal, my parents are there now and they can go out for drinks or meals or to the beach, although I think maybe travel between provinces is not allowed unless you have a good reason.
So with no one following the rules anyway, they may as well open up a few things, I really don't think it would make that much difference to the numbers at the moment. But that's just like, my opinion, man, I can't see anything opening up any time soon.

Rosita · 20-03-2021 12:06PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

By all means a very influential family

The best maintained roads in Ireland are in Kerry, despite the fact they don’t actually go anywhere

Was in Kerry last summer and to be honest I didn't come across any road that didn't go anywhere. It'd be an odd kind of road to build.

gozunda · 20-03-2021 12:14PM

Del Griffith wrote: »

Sure how would you know when you turned it off?

Must be great blocking out everything that differs from your own preset opinion

Didn't read my comment then :rolleyes:

As I said I listened to it until I could listen no more. Unfortunately I stuck it out to near the end when my ears stated to bleed.

As I said The guys opinions of himself and his opinions are as off the wall.

Maybe you could lay off attacking the poster and discuss why you think that viewpoint is wrong no?

Del Griffith · 20-03-2021 12:23PM

gozunda wrote: »

Didn't read my comment then :rolleyes:

As I said I listened to it until I could listen no more. Unfortunately I stuck it out to near the end when my ears stated to bleed.

As I said The guys opinions of himself and his opinions are as off the wall.

Maybe you could lay off attacking the poster and discuss why you think that viewpoint is wrong no?

Right so you didn't listen to it but then you did in fact listen to it.

Your viewpoint on Ewan McKenna making your ears bleed isn't really relevant to all the points he made, which is why I didn't reply to it.

IMO his points of view on this topic are totally valid, and are backed up by the data which was also outlined by him in the segment had you been able to hear it through the blood, or whatever.

gozunda · 20-03-2021 12:30PM

Del Griffith wrote: »

Right so you didn't listen to it but then you did in fact listen to it.

Your viewpoint on Ewan McKenna making your ears bleed isn't really relevant to all the points he made, which is why I didn't reply to it.

IMO his points of view on this topic are totally valid, and are backed up by the data which was also outlined by him in the segment had you been able to hear it through the blood, or whatever.

Which bit of this is hard to understand?

gozunda wrote:

I listened to that interview and had to turn it off as the guy was unlistenable to jumping from one random point to another

And no you didn't rely to any of my original points of view. You just attacked. And yes I mentioned in the next comment that he made my ears bleed - that was in my reply to yours btw

And again this is my original comment which you simply ignored

gozunda wrote:

He quoted long outdated announcements from the WHO about restrictions as a backup to his opinions

He effectively spent the entire section to ranting.

Big lad and an expat not even living here telling everyone here that we're wrong and how he knows better.

He complained about his fellow journalists ostracised him. I'm not surprised tbh. If those in his own profession can't put up with him - then its unlikely everyone else is wrong

20-03-2021 12:37PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

But they are quite happy to entertain the likes of Gerry Killeen on a regular basis?

Here’s Killeen’s latest contribution;

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40247795.html

Apparently, right now we have one last chance before the apocalypse but we must increase restrictions immediately.

Gerry Killeen from my view is an alarmist who lucked into his current position somewhat and is also using the platform presented to him to massage his ego. He is qualified however who has worked through infectious disease outbreaks. McKenna is a contrarian who believes he is the font of all wisdom on all things Ireland from a beach bar in Brazil or Portugal

Deusexmachina · 20-03-2021 12:38PM

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

Imagine asking the leader of IEMAG to take a pay cut during the pandemic. The people involved in NPHET are working themselves to the bone, around the clock. Of course they should be remunerated.

Are you just making up whatever arguments you think will bolster your position? Have you any evidence whatsoever that NPHET are working themselves to the bone around the clock?

Have a look at who actually sits on NPHET. The majority are civil servants. No way on earth these guys are working around the clock.

Natterjack from Kerry · 20-03-2021 12:50PM

Xaniaj wrote: »

10km will have no meaningful impact for the majority of people. It's absolutely ridiculous that they're actually considering this as some sort of 'lifting restrictions'.

For people whose exercise is cycling, its terrific, and will be very helpful to them.

But fair enough, that doesnt affect a lot of the population. But the point is that things that are considered acceptable relaxations should not be done just because it doesnt give everyone something. If its good for cyclists and long distance runners, then let them have it without griping. And they probably arent really fussed whether its 8km, 10km, or within county. The bottom line is it that it gives them a few new routes to exercise on. Single tennis is fair enough too. Different side of a net, and not many people play it, so the contribution to the nationwide situation would be unmesurably small.

True to say, though that for 99% there will be effectively no relaxations in the next period.

gozunda · 20-03-2021 12:52PM

Del Griffith wrote: »

Even if we did it shouldn't matter a **** because with the at risk categories vaccinated there won't be any increase in hospital numbers.
What miniscule outliers there are that do need medical attention will easily be able to get it too for the same reason.

Reminder: Ireland is supposedly in lockdown to allow the health services to cope.

Well it does to be fair.

We currently do not have all at risk categories vaccinated. And of those that are - many are yet to receive the second shot of vaccine.

The UK variant is the dominant strain here and due to its higher transmissibility atm case numbers here are still high.

Currently approx 50% of all hospital admissions are those under 65. That's not going to change.
Let the virus rip as some here seem to want - and yes more people will end up in hospital.

So until we can get all groups fully vaccinated then we're on road to nowhere.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Comments

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings