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Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

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Comments

  • #7622
    shtpEdthePlum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭shtpEdthePlum


    Not one outbreak traced back to playing sport outdoors.


  • #7623
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    shtpEdthePlum wrote: »
    Not one outbreak traced back to playing sport outdoors.
    It's not the sports outdoors, it's the afters indoors that has caused problems. The logic of the current restriction is that there would be a lot more social mixing.


  • #7624
    Monster249
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 268 ✭✭Monster249


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It's not the sports outdoors, it's the afters indoors that has caused problems.

    But 30 kids in a room for 5 hours is fine. It's the inconsistent and illogical way they implement things that has people so angry.


  • #7625
    jackboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,126 ✭✭✭jackboy


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It's not the sports outdoors, it's the afters indoors that has caused problems.

    They should police that then.


  • #7626
    celt262
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭celt262


    jackboy wrote: »
    They should police that then.

    Yep that worked well the last time.


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  • #7627
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Monster249 wrote: »
    But 30 kids in a room for 5 hours is fine. It's the inconsistent and illogical way they implement things that has people so angry.
    A school is potentially a far more controlled environment. That's the difference.


  • #7628
    celt262
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭celt262


    is_that_so wrote: »
    A school is potentially a far more controlled environment. That's the difference.

    Wow


  • #7629
    Monster249
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 268 ✭✭Monster249


    is_that_so wrote: »
    A school is potentially a far more controlled environment. That's the difference.

    There's no difference, have you ever tried controlling 30 children?


  • #7630
    jackboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,126 ✭✭✭jackboy


    celt262 wrote: »
    Yep that worked well the last time.

    What do you mean last time. They never tried that.


  • #7631
    Injuryprone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭Injuryprone


    shtpEdthePlum wrote: »
    Not one outbreak traced back to playing sport outdoors.

    Didn't plenty of gaa teams have outbreaks last summer


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  • #7632
    gifted
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭gifted


    is_that_so wrote: »
    A school is potentially a far more controlled environment. That's the difference.

    Have you passed a school at lunchtimes?....kids running all over the shop....nothing controlled at lunchtime.


  • #7633
    timsey tiger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭timsey tiger


    Monster249 wrote: »
    But 30 kids in a room for 5 hours is fine. It's the inconsistent and illogical way they implement things that has people so angry.

    30 kids whose parents can now go out to work, vs stay home and mind them.


  • #7634
    gifted
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭gifted


    timsey tiger wrote: »
    30 kids whose parents can now go out to work, vs stay home and mind them.

    So why can't those kids take part in team sports activities for an hour in the evening outdoors?


  • #7635
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Monster249 wrote: »
    There's no difference, have you ever tried controlling 30 children?
    I said schools not the class. I'll preempt a pantomime conversation here and accept that we just disagree entirely on this. There are plenty to fight with on the schools thread if you want.


  • #7636
    Monster249
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 268 ✭✭Monster249


    is_that_so wrote: »
    I said schools not the class. I'll preempt a pantomime conversation here and accept that we just disagree entirely on this. There are plenty to fight with on the schools thread if you want.

    Well you don't do much in a school but sit in a classroom, that's sort-of the whole point of it. Good talk.


  • #7637
    daydorunrun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 784 ✭✭✭daydorunrun


    gifted wrote: »
    Have you passed a school at lunchtimes?....kids running all over the shop....nothing controlled at lunchtime.

    March 2020 called and wants it's hysteria back!

    Seriously kids running around in fresh air should not be viewed as a problem after a year spent living with this virus. Outside risk is minimal- yes there are risks with having kids in school but they need to be there, simple as that.

    we are coming into finer weather now- if schools ventilate and follow protocols in place there is no reason they should be shut again. Of the last 12 months kids have missed half that time in school suffering academically and socially.

    “You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.” Homer.



  • #7638
    Monster249
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 268 ✭✭Monster249


    daydorunrun wrote: »
    March 2020 called and wants it's hysteria back!

    Seriously kids running around in fresh air should not be viewed as a problem after a year spent living with this virus. Outside risk is minimal- yes there are risks with having kids in school but they need to be there, simple as that.

    we are coming into finer weather now- if schools ventilate and follow protocols in place there is no reason they should be shut again. Of the last 12 months kids have missed half that time in school suffering academically and socially.

    I don't disagree with you but that same logic could be used for literally anything else that is currently deemed unsafe by our overlords.

    It's the inconsistent logical reasoning they use to support their decisions that has people so angry.


  • #7639
    Benimar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭Benimar


    Monster249 wrote: »
    But 30 kids in a room for 5 hours is fine. It's the inconsistent and illogical way they implement things that has people so angry.

    Neither having 30 kids in a room, nor having a sports team in a house are safe. However, I’m sure you can see why it might be necessary to take the ‘hit’ on schools being open, but it isn’t necessary for a team to meet indoors.

    Having schools open, while acknowledging the risks (something I admit the government aren’t doing) shouldn’t be used as some sort of justification for other forms of indoor activity. Education is essential, after match meet-ups aren’t.


  • #7640
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    It's all fluid metrics.... 201 a day and R 0.2 (down from 0.4 a week earlier) and everyone vaccined by your logic we can't open.

    Likewise,
    199 cases, all those vaccinated that need to be done and the R being 0.2 then 0.3 then 0.5 over 3 weeks would be fine to open?

    The later would be disastrous. It's far too many variables to work out.



    Yes it's fluid, it's to give people a baseline idea. If we manage to get the R number down to 0.2, I don't see how we get stuck at over 200 cases. And if everyone is vaccinated then the baseline number won't matter (or be that high anyway)

    And because it's fluid, you would have to ask what is causing that R number spike, something that isn't mentioned in the Examiner, but will be in play, is the requirement for a steady state I.E. we won't just open up in a meaningful way the day we hit 200 cases and R rocks down to 0.5


  • #7641
    brighterspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 ✭brighterspark


    celt262 wrote: »
    Yep that worked well the last time.
    teams should be allowed to train - and simply not allow competitions to begin - no competitions therefore nothing to celebrate afterwards.

    Mental health is a crisis engulfing our young people and as I have unfortunately found out there is little help out there - waiting lists are months long and medicating our youth is the only help on offer.

    If our young people are not outside playing their sport - keeping fit and healthy what else do people think they will be doing?

    In particular our older teenagers and early twenties group who have had no college/school or skills training and spent nearly a year in their bedrooms need something now!


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  • #7642
    Antics21
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44 ✭Antics21


    Benimar wrote: »
    Neither having 30 kids in a room, nor having a sports team in a house are safe. However, I’m sure you can see why it might be necessary to take the ‘hit’ on schools being open, but it isn’t necessary for a team to meet indoors.

    Having schools open, while acknowledging the risks (something I admit the government aren’t doing) shouldn’t be used as some sort of justification for other forms of indoor activity. Education is essential, after match meet-ups aren’t.
    Can't agree. PE is allowed in schools at the moment. Non contact team sport is allowed as part of that. No reason outdoor team sports can't do the same.There won't be matches until much later in the summer if at all this year. The benefit of giving kids a place to go in these long evenings would be massive socially and psychologically.


  • #7643
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    199 cases, with r0 going from 0.2 to 0.3 to 0.5 in 3 weeks gets us to 15 cases in 3 weeks. I think that would be fine to open , don’t you?

    That would depend on what happens to the rising trend in the R0 value. If the trend continues and it goes above 1 then we've taken one step forward only to have to take two steps backward again to recover lost ground.

    Given the rise from last summer and the spike after Christmas I think lifting of restrictions will have to be slow and in small steps to allow the effect of each step to be established before taking the next step.

    Even then life could throw a curve ball that could undo it all and require reinstating stronger restrictions again.

    There are so many variables and interdependencies it doesn't lend itself to a simple rule. A blend of a number of different models which may constantly be being updated and tweaked as we learn more about the virus, treatments, social factors and many other elements can't be meaningfully distilled to a soundbyte or headline


  • #7644
    Sanjuro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Sanjuro


    is_that_so wrote: »
    There are plenty to fight with on the schools thread if you want.

    I had to stop going into that thread. It’s just people with their hair on fire and people yelling at them to use petrol to put it out.


  • #7645
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    Absolutely impossible with the Schools open and they know damn well too

    Philip Nolan and his modelling team would have told them they need all remaining "safe" R0 in reserve for the Schools

    They need to be more honest with people about these things. They're taking us for gobshítes who - 12 months into this - can't figure out basic Maths

    If they said "when the Schools close in the Summer, we'll then use the newly spare R0 for other things. We'll look into outdoor restaurants etc"

    But nah

    We're treated like imbeciles instead

    People asked for metrics that we need to hit and then aren't happy when they are provided with same. Once cases near 200 mark, schools can be more easily managed by targeted testing. And we can absolutely have a situation where R is 0.5 and schools are open, it isn't the sole contributor.


  • #7646
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    WoollyRedHat wrote: »
    People asked for metrics that we need to hit and then aren't happy when they are provided with same. Once cases near 200 mark, schools can be more easily managed by targeted testing. And we can absolutely have a situation where R is 0.5 and schools are open, it isn't the sole contributor.

    So what happens when restrictions are marginally eased and the number of cases inevitably goes back over 200?

    It's a circular problem.


  • #7647
    Monster249
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 268 ✭✭Monster249


    WoollyRedHat wrote: »
    People asked for metrics that we need to hit and then aren't happy when they are provided with same. Once cases near 200 mark, schools can be more easily managed by targeted testing. And we can absolutely have a situation where R is 0.5 and schools are open, it isn't the sole contributor.

    Ah that old chestnut. Give an impossible target to meet and then blame the public when they don't meet it.

    200 cases a day, with the British variant, while opening schools and with more and more people breaking the restrictions due to their overuse, is literally impossible. But that's our fault because that's what Nolan needs to consider picking the economy out of the toilet? Cool.


  • #7648
    Benimar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭Benimar


    Antics21 wrote: »
    Can't agree. PE is allowed in schools at the moment. Non contact team sport is allowed as part of that. No reason outdoor team sports can't do the same.There won't be matches until much later in the summer if at all this year. The benefit of giving kids a place to go in these long evenings would be massive socially and psychologically.

    Maybe if you read my comment before disagreeing it may help. I clearly referenced INDOOR. I don’t have a problem with kids training, but the issue with young adults is the after training stuff, such as meeting up in houses etc. That was the OPs initial argument - he thinks there’s no reason why indoor gatherings after training can’t take place if kids are in school.


  • #7649
    Benimar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭Benimar


    Monster249 wrote: »
    Ah that old chestnut. Give an impossible target to meet and then blame the public when they don't meet it.

    200 cases a day, with the British variant, while opening schools and with more and more people breaking the restrictions due to their overuse, is literally impossible. But that's our fault because that's what Nolan needs to consider picking the economy out of the toilet? Cool.

    So, absolutely no blame attached to those breaking restrictions then?


  • #7650
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    Monster249 wrote: »
    Ah that old chestnut. Give an impossible target to meet and then blame the public when they don't meet it.

    200 cases a day, with the British variant, while opening schools and with more and more people breaking the restrictions due to their overuse, is literally impossible. But that's our fault because that's what Nolan needs to consider picking the economy out of the toilet? Cool.


    Ok what would you like to happen then.


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  • #7651
    Monster249
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 268 ✭✭Monster249


    Benimar wrote: »
    So, absolutely no blame attached to those breaking restrictions then?

    Once again for the people in the back, what do you expect when you keep people locked up for 7 months with a one month break? Seriously?

    It's not just a few outliers, every week there's more and more getting sick of this one trick pony approach.

    Lockdowns work in short bursts with public buy-in, that wains when you implement them for months and months on end, it's that easy to understand.


This discussion has been closed.
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