Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings

gozunda · 19-03-2021 03:23PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

It's indoctrination at this stage - there is no logic or critical thinking being applied, just blind obedience.

It's become clear to me over the last year how little Irish people value our democratic freedoms. They have been traded away with barely a whimper. Each day another unelected bureaucrat will pontificate on the national airwaves about how much more of our freedoms need to be removed, with barely a shrug from the populace.

It's not you know. We're currently in the midst of a global pandemic.

The absolute majority of people here have come together to work towards keeping down the rate of infection whilst the vaccination schedule is being rolled out.

It's not rocket science and there's no big conspiracy from the lizard people or whoever.

Boggles · 19-03-2021 03:25PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

11 weeks of highest level Lockdown to produce still high figures, I guess you regard that as a success?

One of the lowest in Europe isn't it?

Would you prefer if we were closing schools again like other European countries?

Monster249 · 19-03-2021 03:25PM

growleaves wrote: »

The sun is shining. Its a beautiful day.

Please don't spend your entire summer indoors arguing with bots.

Most of these people have said that they are not thinking their own thoughts or making their own decisions, they are outsourcing them to whichever politicians or scientists appear in front of the television cameras. That means they are impervious to many things, e.g. failure to meet normative standards of scientific proof.

Life isn't debate club.

Okay I'm out. Enjoy your day.

I have an ever-lasting struggle to not get sucked in to arguments with some of the NPCs on here and fail routinely.

I have yet to perfect the art of disregarding opinions that were copied and pasted directly from Government media appearances or press conferences.

The Davestator · 19-03-2021 03:27PM

It'll be fierce disappointing when they relax the 5k and open construction and it has no impact on most people as they were already ignoring that nonsense.

Boggles · 19-03-2021 03:28PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Written off/discredited as "Far right" "Conspiracy theorists" "Nutjobs" and supported by those who carry opinions like yours?
.

I never called them far right or conspiracy theorists.

Some of them had very impressive CV's.

The reasons they tarnished their reputations with absolute nonsense is not clear, but it would appear trying to make themselves relevant and money certainly had some things to do with it.

TonyMaloney · 19-03-2021 03:28PM

Monster249 wrote: »

I'll use a less 'ludicrous' & more literal example of June 21' - are you happy enough to continue supporting the Government through a seemingly endless lockdown until then at the earliest? (I'm using 'endless' because there actually isn't any indication they'll end it then, they've continuously moved the goalposts and repeatedly extended lockdowns)

I'm not an idiot, I know they don't want a lockdown and it's costing them hundreds of millions every week to implement, I'm more-so criticizing their inability to look at the situation from anything other than a 'preventing Covid-19 deaths' viewpoint.

This is such a multi-faceted issue and it's so recklessly dangerous to allow the health advisory board to run the country. I agree with lockdowns and restrictions but I also think we NEED a balance. I also agree that handing over the reigns to NPHET last March was the right thing to do but again, a year later, how can people continue to support that decision?

I do not support this government as such. In fact I hate their guts. I support the policy of suppressing the virus as best as possible while we try to vaccinate as many people as we can in a prioritised order.

And I don't necessarily agree with every nuance of the policy. I think some of it is overly cautious. But I do have sympathy with that caution.
Do you think if the health and well-being of everyone in the country suddenly became your responsibility that you'd maybe be a little more cautious in your stated approach?

I'm very unhappy about doing this until June. I'll do it as best I can though.
This is the first lockdown we've been through where vaccines are going into arms as we sit on our holes shouting at each other on the internet.
It's personally the most difficult time I've experienced so far, but at least there's some light at the end of the tunnel.

Monster249 · 19-03-2021 03:29PM

Boggles wrote: »

One of the lowest in Europe isn't it?

Would you prefer if we were closing schools again like other European countries?

It's only a success if it results in actually coming out of lockdown. The population banded together through an incredibly difficult period for 11 weeks to achieve one of the lowest incidence rates in Europe which is then being punished by our overlords implementing a further 11 weeks of lockdown,

Even for individuals who outsource their thinking to the Government, that has to make little sense?

Boggles · 19-03-2021 03:31PM

Monster249 wrote: »

It's only a success if it results in actually coming out of lockdown.

Yes the majority of kids went back to school this week, you must have missed it.

Other European countries are closing schools because they have to deal with a whole new wave of infections.

Even someone that doesn't outsource their opinion to simple maths and science would agree that is a good thing, no?

Tenzor07 · 19-03-2021 03:32PM

Boggles wrote: »

One of the lowest in Europe isn't it?

Would you prefer if we were closing schools again like other European countries?

Some countries haven't closed the schools at all or for a minimal amount of time despite higher levels of case numbers than Ireland..

Having low case numbers with Schools closed for the majority of the school year isn't something Ireland can be proud of.

Tenzor07 · 19-03-2021 03:36PM

Boggles wrote: »

Yes the majority of kids went back to school this week, you must have missed it.
Other European countries are closing schools because they have to deal with a whole new wave of infections.

Reopened after how many weeks, 11 weeks of lost education that for many kids will be almost impossible to catch up on..

Other EU countries have had far more of a School year than Ireland, numbers may be dialing backup again over there but have at least remained open longer than here..

Monster249 · 19-03-2021 03:36PM

TonyMaloney wrote: »

I do not support this government as such. In fact I hate their guts. I support the policy of suppressing the virus as best as possible while we try to vaccinate as many people as we can in a prioritised order.

And I don't necessarily agree with every nuance of the policy. I think some of it is overly cautious. But I do have sympathy with that caution.
Do you think if the health and well-being of everyone in the country suddenly became your responsibility that you'd maybe be a little more cautious in your stated approach?

I'm very unhappy about doing this until June. I'll do it as best I can though.
This is the first lockdown we've been through where vaccines are going into arms as we sit on our holes shouting at each other on the internet.
It's personally the most difficult time I've experienced so far, but at least there's some light at the end of the tunnel.

"Do you think if the health and well-being of everyone in the country suddenly became your responsibility that you'd maybe be a little more cautious in your stated approach?"

Yes. I've personally lost a grandparent to the virus and while unfortunate, my opinion is unchanged.

I empathize with the Government because it must be extremely difficult however I think they've allowed fear of doing the wrong thing to paralyze them at a most-critical point. They're paid high six-figure sums to make decisions and at a time when the people of Ireland need strong leadership and positivity, they've retracted into the corner like mice.

I agree with restrictions by the way, I'd probably be more tolerable of them than most, I just don't agree with the level of restrictions and the length of time they're going to impose them for. As people are vaccinated in April, there needs to be a staggered reopening regardless of vaccine delays because the country needs to open. A few hundred additional lives aren't worth another 3 months of economic downfall, ruined livelyhoods and mental health deterioration for the young of the country. It sounds pitiless but at what point do we strike a balance?

gozunda · 19-03-2021 03:37PM

ypres5 wrote: »

yes that's been such a smash hit for eu countries hasn't it?

Well it has really.

Vaccine development typically takes years, This process has been sped up by recent advances in technology and the urgent need to develop an effective vaccine. It took sciencists less than a year to deliver vaccines capable of controlling, or at least containing Covid-19.

More than a dozen vaccines now have been authorized around the globe, many more remain in development.

Europe is one of the leading areas for pharmaceutical manufacture.

Vaccines are now being rolled out. Are they significant ssues with supply and distribution? Yes there are. Also not surprising really when you consider that every country in the world is trying to vaccinate its own population.

Boggles · 19-03-2021 03:37PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Some countries haven't closed the schools at all or for a minimal amount of time despite higher levels of case numbers than Ireland..

Having low case numbers with Schools closed for the majority of the school year isn't something Ireland can be proud of.

Opening them up now though is.

Are you afraid of good news?

19-03-2021 03:37PM

LameBeaver wrote: »

People are locked up at home you say (which by the way is an utter hyberpolic bull****e claim) And yet others here claim that people and in particular the younger age groups are ignoring restrictions all over the place. So which is it chief?

Nice language chief not! No it’s not hyperbole but by all means if people feel better seeing it as such so be it. But factually all activities, sports, travel, social interaction are off limits and severely restricted for young people and in fact all people across our society. Level five it is in fact.

Boggles · 19-03-2021 03:38PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Reopened after how many weeks, 11 weeks of lost education that for many kids will be almost impossible to catch up on..

Kids were still being educated.

Monster249 · 19-03-2021 03:38PM

Boggles wrote: »

Yes the majority of kids went back to school this week, you must have missed it.

Other European countries are closing schools because they have to deal with a whole new wave of infections.

Even someone that doesn't outsource their opinion to simple maths and science would agree that is a good thing, no?

You've picked out one part of the picture, I can just as easily pick out numerous others that don't fit your narrative. I'm talking about the entirety of the economy, not just one small element of it.

19-03-2021 03:39PM

growleaves wrote: »

The sun is shining. Its a beautiful day.

Please don't spend your entire summer indoors arguing with bots.

Most of these people have said that they are not thinking their own thoughts or making their own decisions, they are outsourcing them to whichever politicians or scientists appear in front of the television cameras. That means they are impervious to many things, e.g. failure to meet normative standards of scientific proof.

Life isn't debate club.

Okay I'm out. Enjoy your day.

Some of us actually work in pharmaceuticals and know what we are talking about.;)

MrMischief · 19-03-2021 03:39PM

I'm sorry but with 300,000 of second level students still not back to school, using majority in numerous posts is quite misleading!

Boggles · 19-03-2021 03:40PM

Monster249 wrote: »

"Do you think if the health and well-being of everyone in the country suddenly became your responsibility that you'd maybe be a little more cautious in your stated approach?"

Yes. I've personally lost a grandparent to the virus and while unfortunate, my opinion is unchanged.

I empathize with the Government because it must be extremely difficult however I think they've allowed fear of doing the wrong thing to paralyze them at a most-critical point. They're paid high six-figure sums to make decisions and at a time when the people of Ireland need strong leadership and positivity, they've retracted into the corner like mice.

I agree with restrictions by the way, I'd probably be more tolerable of them than most, I just don't agree with the level of restrictions and the length of time they're going to impose them for. As people are vaccinated in April, there needs to be a staggered reopening regardless of vaccine delays because the country needs to open. A few hundred additional lives aren't worth another 3 months of economic downfall, ruined livelyhoods and mental health deterioration for the young of the country. It sounds pitiless but at what point do we strike a balance?

Could you show your maths?

How did you come to that figure.

What figure would you not open up at?

Also if you are still gauging the pandemic on the sole metric of mortality 12 months in, you are doing it wrong.

Boggles · 19-03-2021 03:42PM

MrMischief wrote: »

I'm sorry but with 300,000 of second level students still not back to school, using majority in numerous posts is quite misleading!

Really?

majority

- the greater number

MrMischief · 19-03-2021 03:44PM

Boggles wrote: »

Really?

majority

- the greater number

I was giving context to your quote for a fuller argument with regard to the previous posters comments. You can spin the numbers to suit your narrative all you want.

Monster249 · 19-03-2021 03:46PM

Boggles wrote: »

Could you show your maths?

How did you come to that figure.

What figure would you not open up at?

Also if you are still gauging the pandemic on the sole metric of mortality 12 months in, you are doing it wrong.

I'm not talking about opening up, I feel a staggered opening, working through the levels from April 5th is a good idea & my opposition is to them extending that out again. I might not have made that clear, I'm not advocating opening up completely like some on here are.

If mortality isn't the barometer at this stage with the vaccine roll-out progressing, what is? Hospitalizations and deaths are all that should matter.

We have one of the lowest incidence rates in Europe at the moment yet we're being punished by a further 3 month lockdown, do you think that's fair?

I think our Government are asking for an impossible level of virus before opening up which just isn't in tune with reality.

Boggles · 19-03-2021 03:46PM

MrMischief wrote: »

I was giving context to your quote for a fuller argument with regard to the previous posters comments. You can spin the numbers to suit your narrative all you want.

Using the word majority to state 700,000 kids went back to school out of 1 million is not spin or some narrative, it's an actual fact.

Multipass · 19-03-2021 03:47PM

TonyMaloney wrote: »

In the last 14 days, 57% of those that tested positive had symptoms. 20% were asymptomatic or presymptomatic, and the rest are unknown.

So no, not a majority. One fifth. The majority had symptoms.
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-1914-dayepidemiologyreports/COVID-19_14_day_epidemiology_report_20210318%20_%20Web.pdf

You're worried about kids? Good, so are we. That's why they've been prioritised ahead of the rest of the country, and schools are reopening first

Of those tested, those not being tested will obviously skew heavily to the asymptomatic numbers. There’s no way of knowing the real figures, but it’s certainly much higher than 20%

19-03-2021 03:48PM

MrMischief wrote: »

I'm sorry but with 300,000 of second level students still not back to school, using majority in numerous posts is quite misleading!

Wut?

lee_baby_simms · 19-03-2021 03:51PM

TonyMaloney wrote: »

In the last 14 days, 57% of those that tested positive had symptoms. 20% were asymptomatic or presymptomatic, and the rest are unknown.

So no, not a majority. One fifth. The majority had symptoms.
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-1914-dayepidemiologyreports/COVID-19_14_day_epidemiology_report_20210318%20_%20Web.pdf

You're worried about kids? Good, so are we. That's why they've been prioritised ahead of the rest of the country, and schools are reopening first

But you’d have to imagine that many infected people who are asymptomatic never get tested no?

Boggles · 19-03-2021 03:53PM

Monster249 wrote: »

If mortality isn't the barometer at this stage with the vaccine roll-out progressing, what is? Hospitalizations and deaths are all that should matter.

You do know a lot of people that died didn't get near a hospital not to mention an ICU bed?

Monster249 wrote: »

We have one of the lowest incidence rates in Europe at the moment yet we're being punished by a further 3 month lockdown, do you think that's fair?

It's nothing to do with fairness or punishment.

Also I don't believe there will be no lifting of restrictions in the 3 months.

So far we have got the majority kids back to school and non covid health care is starting up again, it was the goal, it has been delivered.

We will see where we are in 17 days or so.

TonyMaloney · 19-03-2021 03:54PM

Monster249 wrote: »

"Do you think if the health and well-being of everyone in the country suddenly became your responsibility that you'd maybe be a little more cautious in your stated approach?"

Yes. I've personally lost a grandparent to the virus and while unfortunate, my opinion is unchanged.

I empathize with the Government because it must be extremely difficult however I think they've allowed fear of doing the wrong thing to paralyze them at a most-critical point. They're paid high six-figure sums to make decisions and at a time when the people of Ireland need strong leadership and positivity, they've retracted into the corner like mice.

I agree with restrictions by the way, I'd probably be more tolerable of them than most, I just don't agree with the level of restrictions and the length of time they're going to impose them for. As people are vaccinated in April, there needs to be a staggered reopening regardless of vaccine delays because the country needs to open. A few hundred additional lives aren't worth another 3 months of economic downfall, ruined livelyhoods and mental health deterioration for the young of the country. It sounds pitiless but at what point do we strike a balance?

Sorry for your loss. It's a **** time to die, and an even worse time to grieve.

You may have just softened me up, because I don't necessarily disagree with you in the main. I think nphet can be prone to being overly cautious. I remember back in the day when they were slow to introduce face masks as they were worried people would drop their guard and become complacent.

This time around I think they could be looking at allowing small meetings of people in parks and such. Embrace the outdoors. It's safe enough. But I guess they're again worried we'll drop our guard and become complacent again. Maybe they're right.

TonyMaloney · 19-03-2021 03:55PM

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

But you’d have to imagine that many infected people who are asymptomatic never get tested no?

Sure.

But the data counters the claim that testing is currently mostly just picking up asymptomatic cases. The opposite is true.

Monster249 · 19-03-2021 03:56PM

Boggles wrote: »

You do know a lot of people that died didn't get near a hospital not to mention an ICU bed?

It's nothing to do with fairness or punishment.

Also I don't believe there will be no lifting of restrictions in the 3 months.

So far we have got the majority kids back to school and non covid health care is starting up again, it was the goal, it has been delivered.

We will see where we are in 17 days or so.

The first part of your post is rubbish, ICU capacity wasn't completely full at any stage and neither were standard beds.

I'm not talking about what we have achieved, I'm talking about them extending the planned easing again despite the success over the last 3 months. What they want in an ideal scenario is not conducive with reality. We have a lower incidence rate than most European countries so how can you sit there and get behind a further extension of current restrictions when we've done as well as can be expected?

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings