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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    ypres5 wrote: »
    you can always spot the older people on this thread because they always put themselves on the crucifix and up themselves like their the greatest thing since sliced bread but then refer to themselves in the 3rd person to avoid sounding vain and the open contempt they hold for younger people

    Lol.

    Like all such generalities that comment is little more than make believe and fairly identical to what kids do when they don't see eye to eye with another kid and wail - 'I dont agree with you - so you're just nasty' or wtte

    This is an anonymous forum on the Internet and unless we all have crystal balls or are psychics that kind of stuff needs to be filled under F for fantasy.

    The template always seems to go like this ...
    you can always spot the [insert pejorative adjective here ) people on this thread because ...
    ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭d161


    Feria40 wrote: »
    The current 14 day incidence rate in Ireland is 144 per the ecdc website. For the same period the corresponding number for Spain is 146, we are neck and neck.

    Restrictions vary from region to region in Spain and even town to town but there have been few total hospitality lockdowns in the last two waves.

    Take Andalusia (population circa 8 million) over the past number of months, bars and restaurants have been free to open during daylight hours including inside. (Variation from town to town)


    Each area in Andalusia reviews it's data I think every 2 weeks. From today many towns on the Costa del sol are allowing hospitality open from morning to 10.30pm.

    While not as bad as here, the UK variant accounts for a large portion of Spanish cases. So why, when we are headed coming up on our 3rd full month of lockdown are we neck and neck with a country that has took a vastly different approach to waves 2 and 3 than us? What gives?!

    Read the same for much of the non essential retail sector. You have a mega city like Madrid that sets its face against government urgings to shut down.

    Yet look at both countries today
    You're trying to apply logic, that's a big mistake.
    Nphet have no tolerance for risk. If cases per day are above 100 then lock down the country.
    Why not? You are dealing with people who are disciplined enough to get into med school plus will be paid anyway.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    I'm losing track of the point here.

    Is the suggestion now that older or younger people that have/haven't paid enough tax should see restrictions increased or decreased?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭d161


    ypres5 wrote: »
    you can always spot some of the older people on this thread because they always put themselves on the crucifix and up themselves like their the greatest thing since sliced bread but then refer to themselves in the 3rd person to avoid sounding vain and the open contempt they hold for younger people

    I must admit it has surprised me the self interest of many.
    You have them who preach about the common good of restrictions while breaking them but that's different.
    Then those who live very unhealthy lives who want everyone else to suffer. I do feel sorry for those at risk through no fault of their own.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭d161


    Graham wrote: »
    I'm losing track of the point here.

    Is the suggestion now that older or younger people that have/haven't paid enough tax should see restrictions increased or decreased?
    I think the young should stay in because the old paid tax.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,472 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    ypres5 and d161 you can drop the young vs old argument now. Let's move on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Feria40 wrote: »
    The current 14 day incidence rate in Ireland is 144 per the ecdc website. For the same period the corresponding number for Spain is 146, we are neck and neck.

    Restrictions vary from region to region in Spain and even town to town but there have been few total hospitality lockdowns in the last two waves.

    ....

    Yet look at both countries today

    Difficult at the best of times to try and compare two very different countries.

    However looking at the statistics for the Pandemic over the last year quite clearly shows that spikes in infection rates here have been fewer and shorter in duration.

    52a7fx.jpg

    I do wonder Is that down to our restrictions on hospitality or something else?

    Looks like Spain is most certainly not out of the woods yet and is introducing new restrictions on hospitality for forthcoming public holidays.

    https://english.elpais.com/society/2021-03-18/coronavirus-in-spain-all-the-latest-restrictions-ahead-of-fathers-day-and-easter-week.html?outputType=amp

    Edit. Pls note this is referring to the duration of peaks from July to November in Spain. Compared to the short duration peak in Ireland in September- October. This observation appears to be unaffected by graphs which correct for population differences


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    gozunda wrote: »
    Difficult at the best of times to try and compare two very different countries.

    However looking at the statistics for the Pandemic over the last year quite clearly shows that spikes in infection rates here have been fewer and shorter in duration.

    52a7fx.jpg

    I do wonder Is that down to our restrictions on hospitality or something else?

    Looks like Spain is most certainly not out of the woods yet and is introducing new restrictions on hospitality for forthcoming public holidays.

    https://english.elpais.com/society/2021-03-18/coronavirus-in-spain-all-the-latest-restrictions-ahead-of-fathers-day-and-easter-week.html?outputType=amp

    I can’t click to follow the link on your graph.

    What metric is it using?

    Is it showing all case numbers over total population which given the fact Spain has 10 times Ireland’s population, its looks like a similar incidence rate?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,264 ✭✭✭User1998


    really cant see a whole lot happening...we will be lucky to get construction fully open...they have lost a substantial portion of the population now and i think if there isnt any sliver of hope given in april the 5th then its time for people to take matters into their own hands if they havent already...go get your haircut on the black market,go see your family members that you havent seen in months,have a few friends over on a sunny afternoon and drink a few craft beers,get in the car and go for a drive to a nice scenic area more than 5k for a walk or run,book a nice city break somewhere in europe get your teeth whitened...

    To be completely honest I think its crazy that there’s people out there not doing all of those things already


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    I can’t click to follow the link on your graph.What metric is it using? Is it showing all case numbers over total population which given the fact Spain has 10 times Ireland’s population, its looks like a similar incidence rate?

    Go to the our world in data website for Irelands Covid Stats and click Add country.

    As detailed in the screenshot - its using a rolling seven day average.

    The issue under discussion was hospitality restrictions in Spain and here . And in that graph how the pandemic has played out in each country with regard to the observed pattern of spikes of confirmed cases to-date.

    The graph of the two countries for the Pandemic over the last year quite clearly shows that spikes of confirmed cases here have been fewer and shorter in duration

    Most notably in Spain there was a noticeable spike lasting from July through November 2020. In Ireland- a spike in September-October was of a fairly short duration. Both countries also had spikes at the start of the Pandemic and in Dec / January.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Blut2


    gozunda wrote: »
    Difficult at the best of times to try and compare two very different countries.

    However looking at the statistics for the Pandemic over the last year quite clearly shows that spikes in infection rates here have been fewer and shorter in duration.

    52a7fx.jpg

    I do wonder Is that down to our restrictions on hospitality or something else?

    Looks like Spain is most certainly not out of the woods yet and is introducing new restrictions on hospitality for forthcoming public holidays.

    https://english.elpais.com/society/2021-03-18/coronavirus-in-spain-all-the-latest-restrictions-ahead-of-fathers-day-and-easter-week.html?outputType=amp


    Thats massively misleading given Spain's population is twelve times ours. The per capita figures are the only accurate way you can compare this:


    2Cq5NX6.jpg


    Which shows the two countries pretty much equal - both have had one wave worse than the other.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Blut2 wrote: »
    Thats massively misleading given Spain's population is twelve times ours. The per capita figures are the only accurate way you can compare this:


    2Cq5NX6.jpg


    Which shows the two countries pretty much equal - both have had one wave worse than the other.

    Thanks for this, it’s what I was getting at.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,688 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    gozunda wrote: »
    Go to the our world in data website for Irelands Covid Stats and click Add country.

    As detailed in the screenshot - its using a rolling seven day average.

    The issue under discussion was hospitality restrictions in Spain and here . And in that graph how the pandemic has played out in each country with regard to the observed pattern of spikes of confirmed cases to-date.

    The graph of the two countries for the Pandemic over the last year quite clearly shows that spikes of confirmed cases here have been fewer and shorter in duration

    Once again, you're looking at number of cases while failing to take the total population into account. It's almost like you are deliberately ignoring this information at this stage. You've posted misleading information several times now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Blut2 wrote: »
    Thats massively misleading given Spain's population is twelve times ours. The per capita figures are the only accurate way you can compare this:

    https://i.imgur.com/2Cq5NX6.jp

    Which shows the two countries pretty much equal - both have had one wave worse than the other.

    Again - looking at the duration and incidence of spikes for the number of new cases.

    The graph of the two countries for the Pandemic over the last year quite clearly shows that on average Spikes of confirmed cases here have been fewer and shorter in duration

    Most notably in Spain there were noticeable spikes in confirmed cases lasting from July through November 2020. In Ireland- a spike in from Sept to October was of a fairly short duration. And yes both countries had spikes at the beginning of the Pandemic and around the Christmas period.

    52a7fx.jpg

    For example the differences in population do not explain the lenght of the summer spike in Spain compared to Ireland

    Your own graph clearly shows this very long summer spikes in Spain as well. Its duration is unaffected by population differences.

    https://i.imgur.com/2Cq5NX6.jp


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    thebaz wrote: »
    No relaxation of Restrictions until end of June :-
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-advice-on-working-from-home-travel-to-remain-until-june-nphet-1.4513955

    At this stage the Irish public will lap up anything , if they said ther was to be no easing up until August, the public and media would just compiantly nod ther head - provided the free money keeps rolling in, if that stopped we might get a different re-action.

    Yeh it's odd isn't it, like I'm wondering at what point is it that irish people would just say no to further lockdown. So far there doesn't seem to be a point that we know of, but like there must be surely.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ypres5


    Blut2 wrote: »
    Thats massively misleading given Spain's population is twelve times ours. The per capita figures are the only accurate way you can compare this:


    2Cq5NX6.jpg


    Which shows the two countries pretty much equal - both have had one wave worse than the other.

    but if you used the right graph it doesn't give the big scary spike gozundas looking for


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    ypres5 wrote: »
    but if you used the right graph it doesn't give the big scary spike gozundas looking for

    OK just to point out we're not looking at the "big scarey spike" ...

    Rather the very long spike which lasted from July through November in Spain. Capiche?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ypres5


    gozunda wrote: »
    OK just to point out we're not looking at the "big scarey spike" ...

    Rather the very long spike which lasted from July through November in Spain. Capiche?

    capiche? what is this bugsy malone?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,266 ✭✭✭Juwwi


    ypres5 wrote: »
    you can always spot some of the older people on this thread because they always put themselves on the crucifix and up themselves like their the greatest thing since sliced bread but then refer to themselves in the 3rd person to avoid sounding vain and the open contempt they hold for younger people



    whats age got to do about anybody posting on this thread ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    ypres5 wrote: »
    capiche? what is this bugsy malone?

    It simply means do you understand - no?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭shtpEdthePlum




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,688 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    gozunda wrote: »
    It simply means do you understand - no?

    Should have said comprende given the subject matter lol


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,236 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    gozunda wrote: »
    That's the thing that seems to be constantly ignored. The virus most certainly affects those who are medically vulnerable of all ages.

    What do you say to the worried sick child who I know - whose medically vulnerable parent is at serious risk because they're are some simply too selfish to help prevent the spread of the disease or think its all a big conspiracy?

    What do you say?
    What any responsible adult would, that you can only take responsibility for your own actions and to be as careful as they can (within reason). Talk of blaming others or calling them selfish isn't going to make that child feel any better about the situation, in fact it will only make it worse for them in the long run.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭Leftwaffe



    They need to take their head out the f*cking sand. Take a look at what’s actually happening in the country. The 5km limit is long gone. Stop wasting Garda resources. Buffoons.

    Open up click and collect at the very, very least. Absolutely ridiculous that it’s closed. I’d even say open all non essential retail with in-store restrictions. Hairdressers too should be open, I wouldn’t have to go to my barbers f*cking garage like all the rest of his customers.

    It’s seems that the barometer for a healthy society is low Covid cases when in reality it’s multi faceted. I work in public sector, never lost a days pay over this but f*cking hell, the disproportionate suffering that’s occurring in this country now is nothing short of a scandal. All inflicted by non-elected nerds who are afraid of the common cold at the best of times. The the government.... shambles.

    What’s amazing to me is most people don’t give a sh*t about what’s happening to them and their lives. There’s been a huge mentality shift. Some people will never be the same after this, frightened to death. Can even visit a dying relative now without doubt in your mind.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Samsonsmasher


    JRant wrote: »
    Great news on the AZ. According to Reid we'll have around 15k additional AZ vaccines to administer next week. Couple that with more supply coming on line in the next month and things are looking a lot brighter. Onwards and upwards.

    The country is going to be locked down until June!

    Reid is on 420 grand a year.

    When this lunacy is over people who loyally obeyed wore masks washed their hands distanced and stayed home will have no jobs or businesses to go back to.

    How can anybody support this madness?

    The Gardaí reps are only now giving out about civil servants who are non front line getting vaccines ahead of them.

    They aren't giving out about being ordered to literally imprison the whole country and criminalize people for going 5km from their homes.

    And dancing while they do it. Dancing on the grave of this country 100 years after our great grandfathers fought for our freedom.

    You couldn't make it up


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu




  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Leftwaffe wrote: »
    They need to take their head out the f*cking sand. Take a look at what’s actually happening in the country. The 5km limit is long gone. Stop wasting Garda resources. Buffoons.

    Open up click and collect at the very, very least. Absolutely ridiculous that it’s closed. I’d even say open all non essential retail with in-store restrictions. Hairdressers too should be open, I wouldn’t have to go to my barbers f*cking garage like all the rest of his customers.

    It’s seems that the barometer for a healthy society is low Covid cases when in reality it’s multi faceted. I work in public sector, never lost a days pay over this but f*cking hell, the disproportionate suffering that’s occurring in this country now is nothing short of a scandal. All inflicted by non-elected nerds who are afraid of the common cold at the best of times. The the government.... shambles.

    What’s amazing to me is most people don’t give a sh*t about what’s happening to them and their lives. There’s been a huge mentality shift. Some people will never be the same after this, frightened to death. Can even visit a dying relative now without doubt in your mind.

    I think people in the Republic just take everything their government does at face value. As an outside it’s crazy to me how much control your government has exerted! There is no need for these ridiculous rules anymore!

    Here in Northern Ireland the media lay a substantial part of the blame for this. Constantly negative about everything even when figures look amazing, no critiquing of the government either, atrocious!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    User1998 wrote: »
    To be completely honest I think its crazy that there’s people out there not doing all of those things already

    The problem is that they will use that as an excuse to extend any lockdown.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Blut2 wrote: »
    Thats massively misleading given Spain's population is twelve times ours. The per capita figures are the only accurate way you can compare this:


    Which shows the two countries pretty much equal - both have had one wave worse than the other.

    Finally someone else agrees that per capita is the only real measurement.

    Per capita for Spain in deaths over 65 is 0.710% of over 65s.

    Per capita for Ireland is 0.588% - only 0.122% of a difference.


    As a total population its 0.15% - For Ireland its 0.093% - only 0.06% there.


    In under 65s Spains death rate is 0.014% -Irelands is 0.008% so only 0.006 of a percent there.

    Like for like we are almost Identical to Spains death rate per capita


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    Finally someone else agrees that per capita is the only real measurement.

    Per capita for Spain in deaths over 65 is 0.710% of over 65s.

    Per capita for Ireland is 0.588% - only 0.122% of a difference.


    As a total population its 0.15% - For Ireland its 0.093% - only 0.06% there.


    In under 65s Spains death rate is 0.014% -Irelands is 0.008% so only 0.006 of a percent there.

    Like for like we are almost Identical to Spains death rate per capita

    Ahem cough


This discussion has been closed.
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