What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

beggars_bush · 17-03-2021 10:46PM

Strazdas wrote: »

I keep hearing this "politically motivated" thing but to what end? It can't be about Brexit and the British, as nobody in the continental EU gives a hoot about them or cares what they think about anything.

If it supposedly was to get one over on AZ itself, how would that be 'politically' motivated?

They are exporting huge amounts of doses to the uk from the eu

astrofool · 17-03-2021 10:46PM

Strazdas wrote: »

I keep hearing this "politically motivated" thing but to what end? It can't be about Brexit and the British, as nobody in the continental EU gives a hoot about them or cares what they think about anything.

If it supposedly was to get one over on AZ itself, how would that be 'politically' motivated?

There is a political motivation to make it look politically motivated...

Melanchthon · 17-03-2021 10:50PM

astrofool wrote: »

There is a political motivation to make it look politically motivated...

But it's not something that's just coming from the English.

https://www.newsweek.com/poland-official-calls-astrazeneca-scare-planned-disinformation-europe-divides-over-shot-1576614

Wolf359f · 17-03-2021 10:54PM

Melanchthon wrote: »

But it's not something that's just coming from the English.

https://www.newsweek.com/poland-official-calls-astrazeneca-scare-planned-disinformation-europe-divides-over-shot-1576614

“Most countries that have temporarily suspended (AstraZeneca) vaccinations have given in to panic caused by media-fuelled information about alleged complications”

Talk about conspiracy theories. Countries had stopped using it well before the media was mass reporting on it.
Besides, I hardly think people at the head of vaccine rollouts in those countries would be letting the media panic them.

AngeloArgue · 17-03-2021 11:05PM

Melanchthon wrote: »

But it's not something that's just coming from the English.

https://www.newsweek.com/poland-official-calls-astrazeneca-scare-planned-disinformation-europe-divides-over-shot-1576614

Indeed:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-astrazeneca/suspension-of-astrazeneca-shots-is-political-decision-italys-medicines-regulator-head-idUSKBN2B80KK

The decision by Germany, France and Italy to suspend AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 shots after several countries reported possible serious side-effects is a “political one”, the director general of Italy’s medicines authority AIFA said on Tuesday

Call me Al · 17-03-2021 11:09PM

beggars_bush wrote: »

They are exporting huge amounts of doses to the uk from the eu

Channel 4 reported this evening the UK has received 10 million AZ vaccines from Europe over the past 6 weeks. That's on top of the product coming from their own 2 UK factories.

I wonder are they coming from the as-yet-unlicensed Halix AstraZeneca site that the EMA are asking AZ to submit an application for. Hence UvdL's attitude.

Or a different site.

brickster69 · 17-03-2021 11:10PM

AngeloArgue wrote: »

Indeed:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-astrazeneca/suspension-of-astrazeneca-shots-is-political-decision-italys-medicines-regulator-head-idUSKBN2B80KK

The decision by Germany, France and Italy to suspend AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 shots after several countries reported possible serious side-effects is a “political one”, the director general of Italy’s medicines authority AIFA said on Tuesday

Only the blind cannot see

Tyrone212 · 17-03-2021 11:12PM

brickster69 wrote: »

Only the blind cannot see

Yeah Thailand the EU ringleader and arch nemesis to brexit was the one behind it.

Wolf359f · 17-03-2021 11:13PM

Call me Al wrote: »

Channel 4 reported this evening the UK has received 10 million AZ vaccines from Europe over the past 6 weeks. That's on top of the product coming from their own 2 UK factories.

I wonder are they coming from the as-yet-unlicensed Halix AstraZeneca site that the EMA are asking AZ to submit an application for. Hence UvdL's attitude.

Or a different site.

Are you sure they said 10 million AZ?
Because that seems a pretty high amount. The UK factories must not be producing anything at that rate

NeuralNetwork · 17-03-2021 11:14PM

Strazdas wrote: »

I keep hearing this "politically motivated" thing but to what end? It can't be about Brexit and the British, as nobody in the continental EU gives a hoot about them or cares what they think about anything.

If it supposedly was to get one over on AZ itself, how would that be 'politically' motivated?

It’s not politically motivated, other than in the heads of the British press where everything is Brexit.

It’s a new vaccine, in part of a population wide rollout and a competent regulator in Norway, which isn’t in the EU, put out a warning about an unusual type of blood clot.

That was taken seriously by a number of domestic regulator for precautionary reasons and also probably legal reasons.

Can you imagine if Norway, Iceland, etc had paused a vaccine because of an issue like this and it turned out to be a serious issue and the Irish regulator had not paused to review their data? We’d be into lawsuits and tribunals.

That being said, it’s the second time Norway raised an issue that turned out to be correlation based on obscure cases. Are they being over cautious?

We might need a more coordinated alert system though rather than a Sunday evening panic and dominos across Europe.

Wolf359f · 17-03-2021 11:15PM

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Yeah Thailand the EU ringleader and arch nemesis to brexit was the one behind it.

Let's not forget Norway and Congo also.
And then a few counties like NZ won't even approve it. It's a global conspiracy at this stage!

Strazdas · 17-03-2021 11:16PM

astrofool wrote: »

There is a political motivation to make it look politically motivated...

The phrase keeps getting thrown out there, but nobody making the accusation ever explains what the exact motivation is and what the political pay off would be. I can't see how suspending a much needed vaccine equates to a big political win.

astrofool · 17-03-2021 11:16PM

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Yeah Thailand the EU ringleader and arch nemesis to brexit was the one behind it.

I guess they won't be sailing over to south east Asia for a trade deal after all :pac:

NeuralNetwork · 17-03-2021 11:20PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Let's not forget Norway and Congo also.
And then a few counties like NZ won't even approve it. It's a global conspiracy at this stage!

It’s not like they’ll let geographical or geopolitical facts get in the way of a Brexit politics fixated, tabloid conspiracy theory.

Call me Al · 17-03-2021 11:21PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Are you sure they said 10 million AZ?
Because that seems a pretty high amount. The UK factories must not be producing anything at that rate

Yes C4 news @7, he said 10 million, over 6 weeks..

Wolf359f · 17-03-2021 11:24PM

Call me Al wrote: »

Yes, he said 10 million, over 6 weeks..

Sorry, I should have clarified, astrazenca and not Pfizer.
If it's 10mil AZ and aparantly 18mil Pfizer, the UK AZ plants wouldn't have had to produce a single dose to contribute to the vaccinations in the UK.

Call me Al · 17-03-2021 11:30PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Sorry, I should have clarified, astrazenca and not Pfizer.
If it's 10mil AZ and aparantly 18mil Pfizer, the UK AZ plants wouldn't have had to produce a single dose to contribute to the vaccinations in the UK.

Its definitely 10 million AstraZeneca.
Here's a tweet from today from a German ambassador confirming what C4 news reported.

https://twitter.com/GermanAmbGhana/status/1372181986836615170?s=20

AngeloArgue · 17-03-2021 11:31PM

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

It’s not like they’ll let geographical or geopolitical facts get in the way of a Brexit politics fixated, tabloid conspiracy theory.

The role of Germany, and in particular Health Minister Jens Spahn, is in the spotlight after a chaotic round of telephone diplomacy at the start of the week ended with the EU’s biggest states agreeing to put AstraZeneca on hold.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-astrazeneca-europe-idUSKBN2B91XQ

Wolf359f · 17-03-2021 11:33PM

Call me Al wrote: »

Its definitely 10 million AstraZeneca.
Here's a tweet from today from a German ambassador confirming what C4 news reported.

https://twitter.com/GermanAmbGhana/status/1372181986836615170?s=20

Wow, I didn't know the UK relied on the EU that much. I just assumed there was some AZ doses sent to the EU for fill & finish early on.

Wolf359f · 17-03-2021 11:37PM

AngeloArgue wrote: »

The role of Germany, and in particular Health Minister Jens Spahn, is in the spotlight after a chaotic round of telephone diplomacy at the start of the week ended with the EU’s biggest states agreeing to put AstraZeneca on hold.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-astrazeneca-europe-idUSKBN2B91XQ

Weird that Germany was one of the last to suspend their AZ vaccines. But a health minister ringing around other states notifying about a potential serious side effect, I woudkn't see that as political. Is it not wise for countries to be sharing information?

Charles Babbage · 17-03-2021 11:54PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Im getting more and more concerned that countries outside the EU will be effectively open while we will have to remain locked down due to this vaccine fiasco.

This has been an utter shambles from start to finish by the EU. It really is annoying now. Day after day bumbling from one mess to the next.

Now the EU might try block vaccine exports.

Shambles.

You can't really criticize the EU and then also criticize them for doing something about it.

Call me Al · 17-03-2021 11:57PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Wow, I didn't know the UK relied on the EU that much. I just assumed there was some AZ doses sent to the EU for fill & finish early on.

Well Halix hasn't just been sitting there twiddling its thumbs dotting I and crossing its Ts on its EMA application.
AstraZeneca haven't applied for an EMA licence for it as it's been flat out sending its AZ vaccines to the UK.
So UK has had first dibs on 3 sites for months while the EU has had only one of its 2 EU production locations.

Wolf359f · 18-03-2021 12:03AM

Call me Al wrote: »

Well Halix hasn't just been sitting there twiddling its thumbs dotting I and crossing its Ts on its EMA application.
AstraZeneca haven't applied for an EMA licence for it as it's been flat out sending its AZ vaccines to the UK.
So UK has had first dibs on 3 sites for months while the EU has had only one of its 2 EU production locations.

I doubt it's been shopping anything since the end on January. Last that was known was over 10mil doses sitting in storage.

robinph · 18-03-2021 12:23AM

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

That being said, it’s the second time Norway raised an issue that turned out to be correlation based on obscure cases. Are they being over cautious?

We might need a more coordinated alert system though rather than a Sunday evening panic and dominos across Europe.

If Norway, or anywhere, make a notification about a couple of odd results that they can't explain then they should be suspending their vaccination program until they figure out what is going on, that is the correct response.

But when they tell the rest of the world about it and the rest of the world says, but we have X million doses of this already delivered to people in multiple countries and nothing like that has happened despite these vaccinations happening elsewhere since before Norway started its vaccination. Are you sure about that Norway? We'll have a look at our data just to double check and Norway you keep us informed, but from what you've said so far I think we are better off carrying on vaccinating hundreds of thousands per day of which hundreds of lives will be potentially saved rather than get overly concerned about less than a handful of cases in one place in Norway. But keep us informed and we'll stop if you find something that actually points to the vaccine as being responsible.

Meanwhile everyone else keeps an eye on Norway, checks their own data, maybe tells people to look out for blood clots if they are susceptible... But otherwise carry on.

Which is the bigger risk a couple of deaths from blood clots, which you are now on the look out for and can treat, or more continued transmission of a virus you can't treat and then more deaths from said virus that you can't reliably treat.

If this was a new vaccine for some other condition that is not causing a global pandemic then yes, be ultra cautious and stop vaccine delivery and investigate each odd reaction, that's perfectly fine. When you are in a race to get as many people vaccinated as possible, as quickly as possible to be able to bring a halt to a pandemic, not so much.

NeuralNetwork · 18-03-2021 12:38AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Weird that Germany was one of the last to suspend their AZ vaccines. But a health minister ringing around other states notifying about a potential serious side effect, I woudkn't see that as political. Is it not wise for countries to be sharing information?

The timeline really doesn’t make sense. Norway was very rapidly followed by Iceland and we weren’t too long after. Germany and France etc paused later.

A whole bunch of regulators would have been listening to other regulators, not a politician in Germany.

The pause here for example was something the politicians aren’t likely to have wanted. The political fall out of delaying the programme here is huge relative to some notional lobbying from a German health minister.

It just doesn’t make sense.

The decisions here and elsewhere were made by technical bodies, not politicians.

Stark · 18-03-2021 12:39AM

Bit more colour on the blood clotting thing https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/03/it-s-very-special-picture-why-vaccine-safety-experts-put-brakes-astrazeneca-s-covid-19

Wolf359f · 18-03-2021 12:47AM

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

The timeline really doesn’t make sense. Norway was very rapidly followed by Iceland and we weren’t too long after. Germany and France etc paused later.

A whole bunch of regulators would hand been listening to other regulators, not a politician in Germany.

The pause here for example was something the politicians aren’t likely to have wanted. The political fall out of delaying the programme here is huge relative to some notional lobbying from a German health minister.

It just doesn’t make sense.

The decisions here and elsewhere were made by technical bodies, not politicians.

It's weird, when we didn't have vaccines and no sign of them on the horizon, people were saying we'd never get one, then it would take years and then they wouldn't take it until years later when it's been proven to work. Sighting the narcolepsy with the swine flu jab. But when it potentially could be a more serious and lethal side effect, the answer is to just keep ploughing on and don't worry.

NeuralNetwork · 18-03-2021 01:16AM

I don’t think we’ve ever quite been in this situation before. The vaccines seem drastically safer than the prospect of risking getting COVID-19 or passing it on and the impacts of this disease on society and our lives are off the charts.

Is a very different set of circumstances than we’ve had to deal with in the modern era really.

dogbert27 · 18-03-2021 06:32AM

The UK now facing the same issue as the EU with Astra Zeneca

UK: There is a shortage due to production issues

Astra Zeneca: No issues here!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9373987/UK-vaccine-rollout-hit-need-retest-batches.html

McGiver · 18-03-2021 07:42AM

dogbert27 wrote:

The UK now facing the same issue as the EU with Astra Zeneca

Bogus company and they're lying again.
HMG saying "issues with the supply".
AZ said "no issue with deliveries".
Pfizer said "no issues".

One of them is lying and it's clear which one it is. Given that AZ lied to us and Pfizer exceeded delivery expectations.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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