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Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

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Comments

  • #6332
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,278 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    paddyisreal wrote: »
    Absolute heartless. Who talks to anyone in that manner..

    Dr Wally !

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  • #6333
    Rosita
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭Rosita


    wheresthebeef wrote: »
    Would there be anything to be said for adding a few more levels?

    There are more levels already. Curfews etc. Has been done in other countries.


  • #6334
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,278 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    newuser99999 wrote: »
    Well being in constant lockdown except for tiny breaks in the summer and at Christmas certainly isn’t working.

    Maybe they could come up with something new.

    It’s like being lectured by a school teacher for being naughty. They certainly LOVE the sound of their own voices.

    Well , some people here are acting like schoolchildren , lol.

    People mix cases rise, new transmissible variant, cases rise more .
    Vaccines on the way if slowly , just need to keep it going until a majority of the population vaccinated .
    All the whinging and giving out isn't going to change any of that , on here , out there , anywhere .
    Do ye actually think people would thank them if they said do what ye want and it was like New Year2021 again ?

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  • #6335
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,278 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    I wouldn't go as far as saying it's wrong in fairness, increased interaction will definitely lead to increased cases. We definitely need a change of approach though - when you tell people you're worried for 12 straight months regardless of whether there are 60 cases or 6000, people are going to tune out.

    The biggest failing is the excessive restrictions on low risk activities. Resuming all construction and allowing small outdoor gatherings would be a reasonably low risk way to keep people on side.

    + 1 on this and iamwhoiam's post .
    What we need is just this to keep us going .
    Still keeping distance but might get us over this interminable wait for vaccine rollout .

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  • #6336
    User142
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 247 ✭✭User142


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    Well , some people here are acting like schoolchildren , lol.

    People mix cases rise, new transmissible variant, cases rise more .
    Vaccines on the way if slowly , just need to keep it going until a majority of the population vaccinated .
    All the whinging and giving out isn't going to change any of that , on here , out there , anywhere .
    Do ye actually think people would thank them if they said do what ye want and it was like New Year2021 again ?

    There's definitely a middle ground between telling people they get 2/3 weeks of freedom during the Festive period which shortly after they will be locked away again
    and Level 5 where I'm questioned on why I drove to the local park instead of walked.


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  • #6337
    hesaidshesaid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 289 ✭✭hesaidshesaid


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    I totally disagree.
    That GP was awful for what he said and total cringeworthy .
    Glynn and zNolan were the opposite and went in the opposite direction just asking people not to gather for Paddy's and Easter .
    Did you watch the briefing ?

    Have to agree with you here. I think Glynn comes across very well, he’s measured and real about the impact restrictions are having on the public. When he asks people to follow a restriction he says ‘please’ like he actually means it. Tony H did a good job but I think Glynn is more of a straight talker and uses less lofty medical speak. Nolan knows his stuff but could do with being a bit more accessible with his info, IMO.

    If they really want to get their point across though, I think they need to quit with the tired cliches and start giving concrete examples of exactly how the virus is transmitting. It’ seems like that’s what the GP was attempting to do, unfortunately it came across as victim-blaming. The other side of it is that what he described actually happened, whether we like it or not.


  • #6338
    alentejo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 998 ✭✭✭alentejo


    I think the new mantra should be "Indoors=bad, outdoors=good"

    There would appear to be very little evidence that outdoor activity is a major contributor to the spread of the virus.


  • #6339
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,595 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Stheno wrote: »
    On the 8-10 weeks, Phillip Nolan referenced 10-20 weeks

    In one of the briefings from last week Glynn talked about how people should try to stick with high levels of compliance, because we'll be "in a different place" in 8-10 weeks.

    Nolan gave an interview - https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0312/1203513-covid-main/ - on Morning Ireland last week, in which he said:
    Prof Nolan said Ireland has had 52 weeks of living with the virus, but said with continued efforts, in 10 weeks' time Ireland will be in quite a different scenario and again 10 weeks after that.

    I don't read that has him saying we'll be in severe lockdown for twenty weeks, just that hopefully things will have improved a lot within 10 weeks and again in another ten weeks after that. I don't see that as contradicting the point Glynn was making the necessity of adherence, in the hope of a sustainable better outcome within an 8-10 week period
    On the government plan, I never asked for dates, I asked for a coherent plan and coherent messaging

    On "the end is near" Glynn himself said either last week or the week before



    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-ireland-could-be-close-to-normal-by-end-of-year-says-dr-ronan-glynn-1.4495398%3fmode=amp
    So I don't agree with your rebuttal tbh, nor your assertion that no plan can be communicated

    If the effective CMO can come out and say we could be in a good place by Summer, why can't that be defined?

    Instead we get that on April 5th construction might reopen, the 5k might be extended.

    Something is gravely amiss here



    I'm not saying that no plan can be communicated, but you seem to suggest that they should be able to provide something definite. The reason Glynn talks in those terms - optimistic, yet vague, "8-10 weeks" - is because that's the situation. There are no definites

    We know, in time there will be more vaccine available and more people vaccinated - so it's reasonable to assume that things will improve with time - but you're also dealing with uncertainty about the future spread of the disease, the actual effect of vaccination and constant changing in the supply and promises from the suppliers, add into that all the unpredictable vagaries of human behaviour and even questions about whether even plans and dates themselves alter that at some level in unpredictable ways.

    I completely agree with you that we'd all love to hear definite dates and plans etc - but how defined can that all be presently?

    We can't say by X date there will be Y cases. We can't say X date there will be Y vaccinations. We can't guarantee that opening up A, B or C sector of the economy is a good idea until we find out how opening up schools, to start with, has turned out.

    I agree with you that Government communication has been messy and incoherent, but you're also asking for definites from them that they simply can't provide. They can provide aspirational plans, that are all highly dependent on many things that aren't certain.


  • #6340
    newuser99999
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭newuser99999


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    Do ye actually think people would thank them if they said do what ye want and it was like New Year2021 again ?

    That’s the whole problem there’s no middle ground at all.


  • #6341
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,278 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    alentejo wrote: »
    I think the new mantra should be "Indoors=bad, outdoors=good"

    There would appear to be very little evidence that outdoor activity is a major contributor to the spread of the virus.

    Yes, except the after party .

    https://subscriptions.boards.ie/



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  • #6342
    Batattackrat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭Batattackrat


    User142 wrote: »
    The end is not near. The message from recent times that we were close is based on models that are wrong. As a man pretty senior in government asked on television in October. What happens if Level 5 does not work....

    The end is near. Once over 65's are vaccinated and those with underlying conditions are we have to open up, at Level 2 restrictions.

    If we have 5,000 cases a day and hospital numbers are low thats it really.


  • #6343
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Batattackrat wrote: »
    The end is near. Once over 65's are vaccinated and those with underlying conditions are we have to open up, at Level 2 restrictions.

    If we have 5,000 cases a day and hospital numbers are low thats it really.

    Yes but when will this be is the million dollar question


  • #6344
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    I totally disagree.
    That GP was awful for what he said and total cringeworthy .
    Glynn and zNolan were the opposite and went in the opposite direction just asking people not to gather for Paddy's and Easter .
    Did you watch the briefing ?

    I actually have sympathy for Glynn and Nolan, and even Houlihan at times

    Currently they are trying to convey imo a message of hope with caution most of the time, but are being let down by government imo


  • #6345
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,278 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    newuser99999 wrote: »
    That’s the whole problem there’s no middle ground at all.

    No , that's what I am hearing here from people , throwing tantrums over the snippets they hear from the briefings.
    Grow up, take responsibility for yourselves and your families and actually tune in and decide for yourselves what they are saying !
    Then fair enough come online and say what you think .
    Not you personally newuser99999.

    I find their messaging measured and pretty much predictable , mostly .
    It is televised so people can watch if they want and hear for themselves what is said or not said ...I don't get people bashing just for the sake of bashing .
    Nolan never said 10 more weeks of lockdown , for example . That was a journo twist on it .
    He said that a lot would be different in 10 weeks .
    I am tired of listening to people railing on social media about this and that when they can't be bothered to listen sometimes to what is actually said , instead of taking it as Gospel from some twit on Twitter or twat on Facebook.

    https://subscriptions.boards.ie/



  • #6346
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,278 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Batattackrat wrote: »
    The end is near. Once over 65's are vaccinated and those with underlying conditions are we have to open up, at Level 2 restrictions.

    If we have 5,000 cases a day and hospital numbers are low thats it really.

    I'll bite once ...

    You do know that the more cases there will inevitably be those who develop severe illness and maybe end up in ICU / die , just not older people ?

    Not to mention long Covid , but have none of you heard of Covid infection causing infertility in men , and that's just mild to moderate illness ?

    Goodnight !

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  • #6347
    normanoffside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    Martina1991 wrote: »
    Antigen testing is not a useful a tool as people think it is.
    It is currently been tried out in most factories and this is what Dr. Lorraine Doherty of the HPSC said about it:

    "What we must understand about rapid antigen testing is that it is rapid but quite resource intensive. If there is to be twice weekly testing in meat plants it will require a dedicated resource,” she said.
    Dr Doherty also addressed the limitations of antigen tests compared to PCR tests.
    "The performance of these tests is not that good in asymptomatic people. We are keeping our overall approach to antigen testing in this sector under review.”

    This testing is carried out in this setting in conjugation with pcr and dedicated public health teams because there have been so many cases in this meat factories.

    It cannot be just rolled out to every school and supermarket.
    It needs to be done by proper personnel. It is incredibly time consuming to do it regularly and at such a scale. Compliance would also be a huge issue in schools. Are parents going to consent to their child being tested so regularly. I doubt it.

    Well maybe asymptomatic are not actually that infectious? Why should antigen tests effectiveness be based of PCR tests which can pick up virus long after you have had the disease and are long since recovered, long since symptomatic and able to spread?


  • #6348
    Batattackrat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭Batattackrat


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    I'll bite once ...

    You do know that the more cases there will inevitably be those who develop severe illness and maybe end up in ICU / die , just not older people ?

    Not to mention long Covid , but have none of you heard of Covid infection causing infertility in men , and that's just mild to moderate illness ?

    Goodnight !

    Yep, but what choice is their. Hospital numbers are good for 500 cases a day.

    We eventually have to start restricting by county, only way forward.


  • #6349
    paddyisreal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    retro:electro wrote: »
    Yes but when will this be is the million dollar question

    It will be earlier than people think, Northern Ireland will ensure that


  • #6350
    Martina1991
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭Martina1991


    normanoffside wrote: »
    Well maybe asymptomatic are not actually that infectious? Why should antigen tests effectiveness be based of PCR tests which can pick up virus long after you have had the disease and are long since recovered, long since symptomatic and able to spread?

    Asymptomatic people can of course be infectious. If they weren't it would be a lot easier to identify cases and prevent transmission.

    PCR is the method to which all other forms of testing are compared. It is the most accurate. It is the gold standard.


  • #6351
    Maestro85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 199 ✭✭Maestro85


    Batattackrat wrote: »
    Yep, but what choice is their. Hospital numbers are good for 500 cases a day.

    We eventually have to start restricting by county, only way forward.


    This brings its own set of problems. I am no expert on the virus but I have worked in tourism all my life with multiple businesses and national organisations. What was prevalent last year was that any county that was low on numbers and less restricted was swarmed by holiday goers and people willing to rent to WFH in holiday homes, this lead to a rise in numbers and greatly angered locals. These are just my observations, so take them as such but you get my point I hope.


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  • #6352
    PTH2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,719 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Maestro85 wrote: »
    This brings its own set of problems. I am no expert on the virus but I have worked in tourism all my life with multiple businesses and national organisations. What was prevalent last year was that any county that was low on numbers and less restricted was swarmed by holiday goers and people willing to rent to WFH in holiday homes, this lead to a rise in numbers and greatly angered locals. These are just my observations, so take them as such but you get my point I hope.

    Was just about to say similar

    Didn't areas in the UK do something similar, had places in different tiers ?. Suppose us thick Paddy's wouldn't be advanced enough for that sort of logic thinking


  • #6353
    Maestro85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 199 ✭✭Maestro85


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Was just about to say similar

    Didn't areas in the UK do something similar, had places in different tiers ?. Suppose us thick Paddy's wouldn't be advanced enough for that sort of logic thinking


    Whatever happens I think people won't forget this next election cycle.


  • #6354
    hynesie08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,592 ✭✭✭✭hynesie08


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Was just about to say similar

    Didn't areas in the UK do something similar, had places in different tiers ?. Suppose us thick Paddy's wouldn't be advanced enough for that sort of logic thinking

    Go on then, let's imagine that was workable, how do you stop someone in blanchardstown going to maynooth? Or vice versa? Border counties?

    The Republic of Ireland is 3 hours wide and barely longer....

    And it's logical thinking, sorry a thick paddy had to point that out.


  • #6355
    snotboogie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,846 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    hynesie08 wrote: »
    Go on then, let's imagine that was workable, how do you stop someone in blanchardstown going to maynooth? Or vice versa? Border counties?

    The Republic of Ireland is 3 hours wide and barely longer....

    And it's logical thinking, sorry a thick paddy had to point that out.

    It's 8 hours from Mizen head to Malin head. Even Cork City to Letterkenny is a good 5 hours


  • #6356
    hynesie08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,592 ✭✭✭✭hynesie08


    snotboogie wrote: »
    It's 8 hours from Mizen head to Malin head. Even Cork City to Letterkenny is a good 5 hours

    Donegal is an unfair outlier, place is so badly laid out it takes 2 hours to get out of bed.

    Point stands, a tier system wouldn't work in a country where any 1 part has 40% of the country within 2 hours, they tried it last year with Dublin and kildare and donegal and had to shut the whole place down.


  • #6357
    PowerToWait
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭PowerToWait


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    How will we be in a worse position?

    Many vulnerable are now vaccinated, unless the vaccine doesn’t work, we will unlikely have as many vulnerable unprotected as last Christmas


    Alcohol is a human right. More tyranny my from these jack booted fascists in NPHET.


  • #6358
    almostover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,004 ✭✭✭almostover


    marno21 wrote: »
    Qantas may as well launch direct Dublin-Australia flights for the young people of this country at this stage.

    If this happens who could afford rent and drink?

    The government is willing to interfere with pricing in the market for alcohol but will never interfere in pricing in the housing market. Let's get that one fact straight as disgusting as it is.


  • #6359
    almostover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,004 ✭✭✭almostover


    Arghus wrote: »
    In one of the briefings from last week Glynn talked about how people should try to stick with high levels of compliance, because we'll be "in a different place" in 8-10 weeks.

    Nolan gave an interview - https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0312/1203513-covid-main/ - on Morning Ireland last week, in which he said:



    I don't read that has him saying we'll be in severe lockdown for twenty weeks, just that hopefully things will have improved a lot within 10 weeks and again in another ten weeks after that. I don't see that as contradicting the point Glynn was making the necessity of adherence, in the hope of a sustainable better outcome within an 8-10 week period





    I'm not saying that no plan can be communicated, but you seem to suggest that they should be able to provide something definite. The reason Glynn talks in those terms - optimistic, yet vague, "8-10 weeks" - is because that's the situation. There are no definites

    We know, in time there will be more vaccine available and more people vaccinated - so it's reasonable to assume that things will improve with time - but you're also dealing with uncertainty about the future spread of the disease, the actual effect of vaccination and constant changing in the supply and promises from the suppliers, add into that all the unpredictable vagaries of human behaviour and even questions about whether even plans and dates themselves alter that at some level in unpredictable ways.

    I completely agree with you that we'd all love to hear definite dates and plans etc - but how defined can that all be presently?

    We can't say by X date there will be Y cases. We can't say X date there will be Y vaccinations. We can't guarantee that opening up A, B or C sector of the economy is a good idea until we find out how opening up schools, to start with, has turned out.

    I agree with you that Government communication has been messy and incoherent, but you're also asking for definites from them that they simply can't provide. They can provide aspirational plans, that are all highly dependent on many things that aren't certain.

    I wouldn't be asking for definite as ypu call them but a coherent strategy is needed. What about a review on the first Friday of each month and create metrics for each of the 5 lockdown levels? I.e. if 14 day incidence rate <500, ICU capacity >100, hospital capacity >500 and 14 day death rate <25 then we move to L4? It's clear communication like that is what's needed


  • #6360
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,328 ✭✭✭prunudo


    wheresthebeef wrote: »
    Would there be anything to be said for adding a few more levels?

    But why? Hospital numbers are falling and vaccinations (albeit slowly) are continuing. Given that majority of people fully recover from covid the scare tactics from last year have long worn off.
    The public now accept a certain risk from covid so I don't think level 5 will ever get us to the 200 figure. Certainly not after being in it for 12 weeks already and coming from a figure of 6k cases a day.


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  • #6361
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,806 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The government and NPHET would prefer to remain in severe lockdown for another 4 or 5 months if they can get away with it.

    But people are at absolute breaking point now.
    We’ve had half a year of lockdown with a slight break at Christmas.

    It’s inhumane at this stage.


This discussion has been closed.
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