Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings

niallo27 · 15-03-2021 11:40AM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Didn't know we had a vaccine last summer

You did say OR in fairness.

JRant · 15-03-2021 11:49AM

Graces7 wrote: »

No. what I said is that no one iS protecting "the vulnerable" by lockdown.

As we do not need you to. We are all protected by being cocooned. So no one is " sacrificing" anything for us.

What I said is that lockdown has nothing to do with "protecting the vulnerable" as others here are saying also. but is to prevent covid spreading in the general community.

So what happens now has nothing ever to do with "protecting" me or anyone, as we do not need protecting as we are protected already! OK? OK1!

So nothing will essentially change when " the vulnerable" are vaccinated ie lockdown does not hinge on protecting us, but on protecting society at large. So the vaccine is not a magic spell.

Please read what is written.

NB others are saying the same and getting anger also.

Nothing to do with what anyone wants. What we all want is for covid to vanish of the face of the earth without trace

I did not call anyone rats!!!! It was a metaphor! :eek:

PS why can you not present an argument without getting personal with insults etc?

Strangely enough, it hasn't been thousands of fit and healthy young people dieing from COVID. The median age of all deaths is in the mid 80's and almost half of all deaths have been in nursing homes. I would say those people are some of the most vulnerable in society.

Anyhow, if we are not doing this to protect vulnerable people who are particularly susceptible to this virus and the hospital numbers are now in the low hundreds out of 11,000 beds (ICU down to 70+ recently), then what exactly are we still doing in level 5?

Whatsisname · 15-03-2021 11:51AM

A few weeks ago a poster was here saying nobody was even being asked to stay at home. Now we have posters saying lockdowns have nothing to do with protecting the vulnerable. The gaslighting is incredible.

RGS · 15-03-2021 11:55AM

Boggles wrote: »

NPHET take their remit from governance.

That current remit is schools back and non covid health care back functioning.

A further 350,000 kids went back to school this morning.

I disagree.

Government are allowing NPHET take the lead.

Non covid health care has never functioned in Ireland in my 50 odd years on the planet.

growleaves · 15-03-2021 12:00PM

"there are negative outcomes other then death"

Now we have to stay in Level 5 because of Long Covid.

If we lock down right up until the beginning of next year's flu season we will be back to winter surge/another wave justifications.

All a person can do as far as I can see is make good use of the sunshine between late March and early October.

Don't Chute! · 15-03-2021 12:00PM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Didn't know we had a vaccine last summer

But we did have very low levels as you damn well know.

Don't Chute! · 15-03-2021 12:02PM

Graces7 wrote: »

No. what I said is that no one iS protecting "the vulnerable" by lockdown.

As we do not need you to. We are all protected by being cocooned. So no one is " sacrificing" anything for us.

What I said is that lockdown has nothing to do with "protecting the vulnerable" as others here are saying also. but is to prevent covid spreading in the general community.

So what happens now has nothing ever to do with "protecting" me or anyone, as we do not need protecting as we are protected already! OK? OK1!

So nothing will essentially change when " the vulnerable" are vaccinated ie lockdown does not hinge on protecting us, but on protecting society at large. So the vaccine is not a magic spell.

Please read what is written.

NB others are saying the same and getting anger also.

Nothing to do with what anyone wants. What we all want is for covid to vanish of the face of the earth without trace

I did not call anyone rats!!!! It was a metaphor! :eek:

PS why can you not present an argument without getting personal with insults etc?

What insults?

Hector Savage · 15-03-2021 12:05PM

Graces7 wrote: »

No. what I said is that no one iS protecting "the vulnerable" by lockdown.

As we do not need you to. We are all protected by being cocooned. So no one is " sacrificing" anything for us.

What I said is that lockdown has nothing to do with "protecting the vulnerable" as others here are saying also. but is to prevent covid spreading in the general community.

So what happens now has nothing ever to do with "protecting" me or anyone, as we do not need protecting as we are protected already! OK? OK1!

So nothing will essentially change when " the vulnerable" are vaccinated ie lockdown does not hinge on protecting us, but on protecting society at large. So the vaccine is not a magic spell.

Please read what is written.

NB others are saying the same and getting anger also.

Nothing to do with what anyone wants. What we all want is for covid to vanish of the face of the earth without trace

I did not call anyone rats!!!! It was a metaphor! :eek:

PS why can you not present an argument without getting personal with insults etc?

Utter tripe.
If you follow your logic - eradicating the virus from the face of the earth than lockdowns will last forever as this is endemic now and will never leave, even with the vast majority vaccinated.

The metric should be hospital numbers and serious cases only, both of which will plummet once we get the majority vaccinated.

SnuggyBear · 15-03-2021 12:05PM

growleaves wrote: »

"there are negative outcomes other then death"

Now we have to stay in Level 5 because of Long Covid.

If we lock down right up until the beginning of next year's flu season we will be back to winter surge/another wave justifications.

All a person can do as far as I can see is make good use of the sunshine between late March and early October.

I'm properly pissed off now. The thoughts of another lockdown in winter is so depressing. I've talked to people who are saying this life is not worth living and it's hard not agree with them.

retro:electro · 15-03-2021 12:06PM

Graces7 wrote: »

No. what I said is that no one iS protecting "the vulnerable" by lockdown.

As we do not need you to. We are all protected by being cocooned. So no one is " sacrificing" anything for us.

What I said is that lockdown has nothing to do with "protecting the vulnerable" as others here are saying also. but is to prevent covid spreading in the general community.

So what happens now has nothing ever to do with "protecting" me or anyone, as we do not need protecting as we are protected already! OK? OK1!

So nothing will essentially change when " the vulnerable" are vaccinated ie lockdown does not hinge on protecting us, but on protecting society at large. So the vaccine is not a magic spell.

Please read what is written.

NB others are saying the same and getting anger also.

Nothing to do with what anyone wants. What we all want is for covid to vanish of the face of the earth without trace

I did not call anyone rats!!!! It was a metaphor! :eek:

PS why can you not present an argument without getting personal with insults etc?

Lockdown could end tomorrow and your life would be no different. Going by your past posts, you’ve been living in isolation for with minimal contact with the general public on an island for years. So while you are of course entitled to opinion on it all, with the greatest of respect you haven’t a clue what you’re talking about and haven’t a clue about the personal sacrifices people have had to make. It’s easy to call for this to continue when you have been cocooned alone on an island long before the pandemic ever existed and haven’t actually lived in the real world for some time now.

SnuggyBear · 15-03-2021 12:09PM

It's like a monk saying a ban on sex is grand

Graham · 15-03-2021 12:12PM

growleaves wrote: »

"there are negative outcomes other then death"

Now we have to stay in Level 5 because of Long Covid.

Do we?

Who said that?

Boggles · 15-03-2021 12:14PM

RGS wrote: »

I disagree.

Government are allowing NPHET take the lead.

Nope, NPHET get their remit from government, it's not my opinion.

RGS wrote: »

Non covid health care has never functioned in Ireland in my 50 odd years on the planet.

Hyperbole.

Don't Chute! · 15-03-2021 12:15PM

Graces7 wrote: »

No. what I said is that no one iS protecting "the vulnerable" by lockdown.

As we do not need you to. We are all protected by being cocooned. So no one is " sacrificing" anything for us.

What I said is that lockdown has nothing to do with "protecting the vulnerable" as others here are saying also. but is to prevent covid spreading in the general community.

So what happens now has nothing ever to do with "protecting" me or anyone, as we do not need protecting as we are protected already! OK? OK1!

So nothing will essentially change when " the vulnerable" are vaccinated ie lockdown does not hinge on protecting us, but on protecting society at large. So the vaccine is not a magic spell.

Please read what is written.

NB others are saying the same and getting anger also.

Nothing to do with what anyone wants. What we all want is for covid to vanish of the face of the earth without trace

I did not call anyone rats!!!! It was a metaphor! :eek:

PS why can you not present an argument without getting personal with insults etc?

Well then I really don’t know what the hell is going on here. We’ve heard nothing but “protect the elderly protect the vulnerable you’re all granny killers” for the last year.

Hector Savage · 15-03-2021 12:17PM

Stheno wrote: »

Phillip Nolan on Morning Ireland

This doesn't sound good - 20 weeks is the end of July :eek)

In 10 weeks’ time we will be in a different place, and 10 weeks further down the line we’ll be in a much different place but I worry that we will squander the sacrifice of thousands of people over the last 52 weeks if we rush to do things too quickly in the next 10-20 weeks,” he said while speaking on RTÉ Radio One's Morning Ireland.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/nphet-seeing-early-worrying-signs-philip-nolan-urges-people-not-to-squander-52-weeks-of-sacrifice-40187690.html

What do these utter mentally ill slavering fools WANT us to do ?

What is the end game for them ?

The virus will NEVER be eradicated, so you can apply their lockdown to save us from another lockdown logic at any point ....

What do they say as a way out of this ? apart from this ridicolous fantasy of 0 covid.

TonyMaloney · 15-03-2021 12:20PM

Monster249 wrote: »

My god, the fact you're coming out with this clearly displays a warped sense of reality. You understand that in this little world we live in, people are going to get sick and die, that's life and that's unavoidable. It's not the public's job to put out lives on hold for any longer to protect people who may become I'll (but survive). That's the job of the government and HSE. Lockdowns were employed because there WAS a risk of the HSE becoming overrun but that risk will be significantly mitigated by the time the at-risk groups are vaccinated. After that, they can't keep the economy shut just to save every last soul.

Our healthcare system won't be overrun once the vulnerable are vaccinated, it hasn't become overrun as-is with no one vaccinated. Stop scaremongering, it's just flat out untrue.

Luckily, the government won't entertain lockdowns for much longer because they simply can't afford it. If it was people like you in charge, our economy would severely crumble. I'm happily reminded sometimes that as conservative as the leaders of this country are right now, thank christ they are nothing like you.

You must have not been here in January. I'll tell you about it some time.

I don't know why you make this so personal. I understand little about the world do I? I'm watching closely what's going on in places like Israel and the UK. You're clearly not.

Israel are reopening today to a large extent, particularly for people with a "green pass" (vaccine cert.).
60% of the population has received one dose. 50% has received the second. 107 doses per 100 people.

They passed the point of having vaccinated what you would consider the "vulnerable" ages ago, but didn't dream of opening up because they were sick of having disasters.

You incorrectly label me as conservative, but I think you're right that those in charge here are quite conservative. Or cautious at any rate.
If you think they're looking at Israel's success (so far), and thinking to themselves "balls to that, lets open way sooner" then you're just plain wrong.

Any sane country will be seeking to vaccinate a majority of the population. If you lads don't try to wrap your heads around that soon then you'll be in for a very difficult few months.

Stormyteacup · 15-03-2021 12:22PM

Don't Chute! wrote: »

Well then I really don’t know what the hell is going on here. We’ve heard nothing but “protect the elderly protect the vulnerable you’re all granny killers” for the last year.

Why didn’t they tell us that all the vulnerable people were safe and cocooning on an island somewhere. Another cover-up.

TonyMaloney · 15-03-2021 12:29PM

Here is Israel's new set of restrictions for anyone who's interested
https://www.gov.il/en/Departments/Guides/ramzor-cites-guidelines

It all sounds very nice assuming you have a vaccine cert. I'm jealous.
It's still quite a distance from being back to normal though.

Hector Savage · 15-03-2021 12:40PM

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Here is Israel's new set of restrictions for anyone who's interested
https://www.gov.il/en/Departments/Guides/ramzor-cites-guidelines

It all sounds very nice assuming you have a vaccine cert. I'm jealous.
It's still quite a distance from being back to normal though.

AFAIK 100% of the pop have at least one dose ? I mean it can't be an issue in hospitals anymore, I guess they are using case numbers as a metric - very worrying.

Graces7 · 15-03-2021 12:43PM

JRant wrote: »

Strangely enough, it hasn't been thousands of fit and healthy young people dieing from COVID. The median age of all deaths is in the mid 80's and almost half of all deaths have been in nursing homes. I would say those people are some of the most vulnerable in society.

Anyhow, if we are not doing this to protect vulnerable people who are particularly susceptible to this virus and the hospital numbers are now in the low hundreds out of 11,000 beds (ICU down to 70+ recently), then what exactly are we still doing in level 5?

Can youquote exact stats as there have been several versions as there have been more than enough young deaths

Go to the mayo board and read re the devastation in Belmullet at Christmas and you may well understand what lockdown is about and why numbers are still as they are.

Level 5 will end when vaccination is high enough to prevent major outbreaks. Sooner rather than later.

NB we have lost a family member aged 26 to covid; no underlying illness, fit and strong.

Monster249 · 15-03-2021 12:45PM

Graces7 wrote: »

Can youquote exact stats as there have been several versions as there have been more than enough young deaths

Go to the mayo board and read re the devastation in Belmullet at Christmas and you may well understand what lockdown is about and why numbers are still as they are.

Level 5 will end when vaccination is high enough to prevent major outbreaks. Sooner rather than later.

NB we have lost a family member aged 26 to covid; no underlying illness, fit and strong.

You're letting your personal experience cloud your judgement. The death of your family member, while unfortunate, is an outlier and very rare. Once the vulnerable are vaccinated, we can't be in lockdown to keep healthy people safe.

Hector Savage · 15-03-2021 12:46PM

So Israel are making it mandatory for children to receive the vaccine too ? ?

Absolutely nuts , they don't need it.

And I say that as someone that will take it, my wife has had her 2 doses too, but don't plan my kids getting it - they don't need it.

scamalert · 15-03-2021 12:50PM

its becoming clear that people are annoyed the longer this drags on, but giving power to few decide whats best for entire population is dumb, as so far every measure taken seems has been more of a failure then done anything good. And given this crap can spread and will without symptoms or traces it should been long established that only direction is to get used to this crap rather then try to contain every aspect of it which is unrealistic long term to have more restrictions put up against something that one could have and show 0 signs of symptoms.

Graces7 · 15-03-2021 12:52PM

Don't Chute! wrote: »

Well then I really don’t know what the hell is going on here. We’ve heard nothing but “protect the elderly protect the vulnerable you’re all granny killers” for the last year.

I know. It was something another poster said (TonyMaolony) said along the same lines that resonated.

It would be interesting to trace it back. But we are cocooned so saying this is all for us makes no sense. And it makes no sense either it that were true why then no family gatherings etc?

And I don't remember anyone in office actually saying it.

But we have been more isolated than anyone else

15-03-2021 12:52PM

Listening to Dean Harper, who is acting on behalf of radiographers in Ireland, speaking with Claire Byrne. He revealed that he and his colleagues were told in no uncertain terms that their services won't be required when the vaccine rollout accelerates. Didn't mince his words, predicted a logistical nightmare. As I recall, events managers/concert promoters who offered to set up vaccine centres were waved off also. Meanwhile, doctors/nurses who are already overtaxed in other areas heavily relied upon to deliver these vaccines. What the hell is wrong with the government & HSE, you have all these individuals volunteering their time to facilitate the vaccination program and the closed shop mentality rears its ugly head. Wait until summer when there's a significant backlog, then the bovine executive will finally wake up from their collective slumber. Fail to prepare, prepare to fail is the old axiom. General public having to put up with eejits twiddling their thumbs, it's reaching farcical proportions.

Graces7 · 15-03-2021 12:57PM

Monster249 wrote: »

You're letting your personal experience cloud your judgement. The death of your family member, while unfortunate, is an outlier and very rare. Once the vulnerable are vaccinated, we can't be in lockdown to keep healthy people safe.

Belmullet?

And yo are reading what was not said. Nor did I suggest anything re a longer lockdown.

TonyMaloney · 15-03-2021 12:57PM

Hector Savage wrote: »

AFAIK 100% of the pop have at least one dose ? I mean it can't be an issue in hospitals anymore, I guess they are using case numbers as a metric - very worrying.

About 60% that have received a first dose. 50% have received the second.

They, like most countries, are aiming for herd-immunity via vaccination. I can't recall exactly, but you need 70-80% of your population dosed up in order to achieve it depending on the variants that are circulating.

Israel have a sizeable minority who are not keen on vaccines, so while they've obviously flown out of the blocks, they may really struggle to get to herd-immunity. Hence I guess why they decided to use vaccine certs as a carrot.

This is what we and most other countries are seeking to do. If you're expecting us to open up once the obviously vulnerable people are vaccinated, you're going to be very disappointed.

suicide_circus · 15-03-2021 01:00PM

Whatsisname wrote: »

A few weeks ago a poster was here saying nobody was even being asked to stay at home. Now we have posters saying lockdowns have nothing to do with protecting the vulnerable. The gaslighting is incredible.

Demented.

Loafing Oaf · 15-03-2021 01:00PM

niallo27 wrote: »

You did say OR in fairness.

Okay but hopefully if we do manage to suppress the virus to very low levels again, this time we will be able to keep it that way by following the Australian test/trace/isolate approach to quenching further outbreaks. And even failing that, the steady expansion of the vaccination programme will serve as a backstop to prevent a serious fourth wave.

Hector Savage · 15-03-2021 01:13PM

TonyMaloney wrote: »

About 60% that have received a first dose. 50% have received the second.

They, like most countries, are aiming for herd-immunity via vaccination. I can't recall exactly, but you need 70-80% of your population dosed up in order to achieve it depending on the variants that are circulating.

Israel have a sizeable minority who are not keen on vaccines, so while they've obviously flown out of the blocks, they may really struggle to get to herd-immunity. Hence I guess why they decided to use vaccine certs as a carrot.

This is what we and most other countries are seeking to do. If you're expecting us to open up once the obviously vulnerable people are vaccinated, you're going to be very disappointed.

I was basing my data on ourworldindata site which has Israel as 106/100 people have received a dose, so I assumed that meant 100% has 1st dose, and 6% the 2nd ?

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings