COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Turtwig · 14-03-2021 11:52AM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I thought we approved vaccines based on the risk of COVID being greater than any potential vaccine side effects? This is a complete kick in the face to that principle

The reaction of some posters here is deeply disturbing. This may be nothing. It may be a temporary suspension. But what if it isn't? What if there are production issues with the vaccine for certain batches? What if it causes blood clots? These btw are largely invisible so if you're getting people having embolisms you may have more who have developed clots and just aren't aware of it. Or you may not. It needs to be investigated to ensure the events are within background population levels.

Maybe in a day or so time it'll be a false alarm. I'm hopeful that's the case.

Klonker · 14-03-2021 11:52AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

As of Wednesday 109k

In the EU as of Tuesday there had been 3 million doses of AZ administered & 22 reports of thromboembolic events

Thanks Stephen. 22 out of 3 million I'd assume is in line with cases in the general population.

I linked the article to Norway a few posts back and it sounds not great, a number of cases in under 50s who had reviewed the vaccine a few days prior. I'd link to hear a bit more detail, is a number of people 3 or 50 and out of how many doses given. Hopefully more detail is given soon.

Edit - Just seen your other post now and agree there's a lot more info needed on Norway cases.

stephenjmcd · 14-03-2021 11:55AM

Klonker wrote: »

Thanks Stephen. 22 out of 3 million I'd assume is in line with cases in the general population.

I linked the article to Norway a few posts back and it sounds not great, a number of cases in under 50s who had reviewed the vaccine a few days prior. I'd link to hear a bit more detail, is a number of people 3 or 50 and out of how many doses given. Hopefully more detail is given soon.

Yeah the EMA said the other day it's no higher than seen in general population & that the benefits continue to outweigh the risks.

NIAC agreed and had also been provided with data from MHRA

Apogee · 14-03-2021 12:06PM

Karina Butler on RTÉ Radio 1 now.

Norway reporting 'cluster of four serious, very rare events in younger people'.

Not a batch issue - across batches.

Don't know cause yet - have to pause until additional information provides assurance.

Reports are serious but may be coincidental. Age profile of those affected is of concern - especially as AZ is due to be used with Cohort 4.

EMA have started rapid review. Hope to have conclusion by end of this week.

crossman47 · 14-03-2021 12:10PM

I'm afraid the government also have to bear in mind how litigious this country is. i can visualise ambulance chasing lawyers already salivating at the prospect of large future earnings.

stephenjmcd · 14-03-2021 12:11PM

Not a batch issue, unknown background of the people involved in Norway (underlying health issues etc), all being looked into.

Prof Butler- This should be seen as a positive step and give more confidence that safety is the top priority

Danzy · 14-03-2021 12:12PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

As of Wednesday 109k

In the EU as of Tuesday there had been 3 million doses of AZ administered & 22 reports of thromboembolic events

Which is lower than the embolism rate per 100k in the normal population.

irishlad. · 14-03-2021 12:13PM

Overall, this won't affect vaccination numbers as long as it's a relatively short suspension.

AstraZeneca deliveries were already small, so it won't take long to put any built-up surpluses into arms.

lbj666 · 14-03-2021 12:14PM

This can happen. Id almost say a suspension was enevitable at some point given the volume people doses are being administered to meaning that even tiny patterns would end up emerging, that warrant investigation.

What bothers me is amount of posters here who have come to understand how robust the trials and approval process is, yet are deeply annoyed of the simple continuation of that process beyond approval.

Wolf359f · 14-03-2021 12:14PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Not a batch issue, unknown background of the people involved in Norway, all being looked into

At least the EMA hasn't paused the approval, meaning once NIAC are happy the cases reported are outliers, they can get back to jabbing ASAP. We won't need to wait on the EMA etc...

stephenjmcd · 14-03-2021 12:15PM

Prof Butler says they hope to have a conclusion by end of week. She is hopeful that by this time next week she will be saying we didn't have to do this but that it will have given people more confidence in safety

hmmm · 14-03-2021 12:16PM

Apogee wrote: »

Karina Butler on RTÉ Radio 1 now.

Who-ever is interviewing her doesn't seem to be listening to what she's saying and just keeps repeating "well what you're saying now will decrease confidence". What do they expect her to say? She's said they are pausing the vaccinations while they review the data, and if everything looks fine they'll restart it again which is perfectly reasonable.

Wolf359f · 14-03-2021 12:16PM

Danzy wrote: »

Which is lower than the embolism rate per 100k in the normal population.

Is that age adjusted? For the most part AZ is being given to people under 70/65 etc...

Danzy · 14-03-2021 12:16PM

Dressoutlet wrote: »

Not a hope, the public are looking at the rest of the EU and laughing. Even the no brexiters are delighted with the UK. The public won't turn on the government when they ands all they know who got the vaccine are fine. They are laughing at the rest of us.

I don't think they are laughing, just bewildered that the EU took its time.

They chose to get the job done.

stephenjmcd · 14-03-2021 12:17PM

hmmm wrote: »

Who-ever is interviewing her doesn't seem to be listening to what she's saying and just keeps repeating "well what you're saying now will decrease confidence". What do they expect her to say? She's said they are pausing the vaccinations while they review the data, and if everything looks fine they'll restart it again which is perfectly reasonable.

Brendan o Connor, an awful interviewer

lbj666 · 14-03-2021 12:18PM

Apogee wrote: »

Reports are serious but may be coincidental. Age profile of those affected is of concern - especially as AZ is due to be used with Cohort 4.

A very clear explanation for such cautiousness, if it's linked to underlying conditions.

Danzy · 14-03-2021 12:19PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Is that age adjusted? For the most part AZ is being given to people under 70/65 etc...

4 per 100k in the general population.

Skewed higher as you get older but don't have the breakdown.

There is as much evidence to say it prevents embolisms as causes them.

alchemist33 · 14-03-2021 12:20PM

Don't know if this was posted yesterday, but here's data on every country's vaccination effirts so far... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-56237778

We're close to average in the EU, some countries have zero so far, and the US and UK streaking ahead.

Harry Palmr · 14-03-2021 12:20PM

hmmm wrote: »

Who-ever is interviewing her doesn't seem to be listening to what she's saying and just keeps repeating "well what you're saying now will decrease confidence". What do they expect her to say? She's said they are pausing the vaccinations while they review the data, and if everything looks fine they'll restart it again which is perfectly reasonable.

Brendan O'Conner not being very helpful but then this what happens when "arts" interviews "science".

Now asking Lucinda Creighton 'was it is' :eek:

This is where talk radio is at it's worst - everyone chipping in, pointless speculation, hand-wringing and so on.

Apogee · 14-03-2021 12:20PM

hmmm wrote: »

Who-ever is interviewing her doesn't seem to be listening to what she's saying and just keeps repeating "well what you're saying now will decrease confidence". What do they expect her to say? She's said they are pausing the vaccinations while they review the data, and if everything looks fine they'll restart it again which is perfectly reasonable.

Brendan O'Connor. Dreadful interviewer for such a serious issue - putting words into her mouth.

Amirani · 14-03-2021 12:22PM

Danzy wrote: »

Which is lower than the embolism rate per 100k in the normal population.

You need to compare to the same demographic subset of the population within the same timeframe.

You can't just compare against the "normal population" over the course of a year or whatever.

stephenjmcd · 14-03-2021 12:26PM

Apogee wrote: »

Brendan O'Connor. Dreadful interviewer for such a serious issue - putting words into her mouth.

Absolutely

For a better interviewer to start with, Prof Bulter will be on with Gavan Reily on Newstalk in a few mins

Turtwig · 14-03-2021 12:29PM

Cork2021 wrote: »

Anti vax crowd will be like they’ve taken a million viagra pills! They’ll all love this.
Guess who’ll be **** to this news our Zero Covid Elites! Staines, McDonkey, Ryan and Killeen all organising their Microsoft teams orgy

McConkey just spoke their about the Norway reports. Pretty reasonable response.

Don't know the nature of the events. Don't know the background rates. Don't know if it's chronological to vaccine. May also be other factors. He cited social restrictions due to COVID meaning people exercising less and life being more stressful as an example. May just be a coincidence. More information is needed.

ebbsy · 14-03-2021 12:35PM

Suits the Government, another excuse because of a failed rollout.

ACitizenErased · 14-03-2021 12:40PM

Butler says on Newstalk the UK has seen just 1 event out of 11 million doses

Klonker · 14-03-2021 12:42PM

Danzy wrote: »

4 per 100k in the general population.

Skewed higher as you get older but don't have the breakdown.

There is as much evidence to say it prevents embolisms as causes them.

4 per 100k over how long a time period? Because you're comparing it to a few days period after vaccinated. I don't think you're comparing like with like so useless comparison

lbj666 · 14-03-2021 12:44PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Butler says on Newstalk the UK has seen just 1 event out of 11 million doses

Which in a way makes it a little more bothersome actualy , presuming there's a consistency in reporting. How can one area have 1 in 11 million and another area have 22 in 3 million or whatever.

Klonker · 14-03-2021 12:46PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Butler says on Newstalk the UK has seen just 1 event out of 11 million doses

Thats great to hear. Makes the Norwegian cases more surprising. Hopefully it's just an statistical anomaly.

Harry Palmr · 14-03-2021 12:48PM

It could well be that sales of aspirin jump as it's recommended that it be taken after vaccination.

Turtwig · 14-03-2021 12:53PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

It could well be that sales of aspirin jump as it's recommended that it be taken after vaccination.

Yeah much as I disliked BOC I thought Karina Butler's remarks specifically mentioning an exact dosage of aspirin were unwise. Many of the risk groups will have conditions that have internal bleeding. Blood thinners may actually cause them to experience more blood loss than they normally would. Aspirin is usually contraindicated for these individuals for that reason.

I wish she said something along of the lines of don't take aspirin before discussing with your GP or consultant first. I know it was probably in the heat of the moment and BOC had basically said it was reasonable for people to take aspirin in advance of the vaccine. (Grossly irresponsible on his part imo). She had to respond to that. Still, I think her response could have been better. Mentioning as specific dosage was dangerous imo.

COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Comments