Garda Courses

justbehindit · 13-03-2021 5:26pm #1

I was just wondering, do the guards who work as FO's have to do much if any training? Like a course on firearms and all things firearm related or do they just learn on the job? It often feels like when ever I'm talking to an FO they're not quite as knowledgeable as you'd expect. Not saying it's their fault or anything, but just wondering if this is the case country wide or just where I'm based.

Feisar · 13-03-2021 6:02pm

justbehindit wrote: »

I was just wondering, do the guards who work as FO's have to do much if any training? Like a course on firearms and all things firearm related or do they just learn on the job? It often feels like when ever I'm talking to an FO they're not quite as knowledgeable as you'd expect. Not saying it's their fault or anything, but just wondering if this is the case country wide or just where I'm based.

My man is a gent but know SFA about guns. I’d say it’s a role ya draw the short straw for.

Zxthinger · 13-03-2021 6:12pm

It seems that they often have no interest in guns.. and without an interest you won't strive in the foundation of firearms technologies.

Their remit is storage, and licensing. yes a few know their stuff but how manny of then of them could tell you the difference between a 220 swift and a 22mag

This lack of training means nothing anyway. The rules are still the rules..
if you love guns youll keep things right.. end of.

How may here have had a 220 swift and applied for a 22-250 only to be told that you required a deer hunting licence.. even though it's a 5percent downgrade in power and velocity..

How many have seen requested amounts on ammo-limits on your licence application slashed. Or air rifle shooters limited to just 50 or 100 rounds

We better of with them in the dark..

clivej · 13-03-2021 8:10pm

I must have the best FO,
She knows a good bit about licensing but will sometimes ask me when I'm in about what is happening at the moment.
Last license was in and out in 2 weeks and another 1000 rounds on the license.

tudderone · 13-03-2021 9:13pm

I was talking to the FO in my local station, and while she was nice to deal with and efficient, she was seriously po'ed with it. As she said herself, its not what you join the gardai to do.

alanmc · 13-03-2021 9:19pm

From my dealings with FOs, it seems to be a role that's rotated around the pool of sergeants every 6 months or a year or so (at least in my local). It's a bunch of admin tasks and paperwork on top of all of their normal day job activities, so some of them see it as a pain in the ar$e (I would too), and it often gets bumped down the priority queue when actual police work needs to get done.

So, it gets no "love" as it's considered a side job, and a tedious one at that.

tudderone · 13-03-2021 9:26pm

alanmc wrote: »

From my dealings with FOs, it seems to be a role that's rotated around the pool of sergeants every 6 months or a year or so (at least in my local). It's a bunch of admin tasks and paperwork on top of all of their normal day job activities, so some of them see it as a pain in the ar$e (I would too), and it often gets bumped down the priority queue when actual police work needs to get done.

So, it gets no "love" as it's considered a side job, and a tedious one at that.

I know in the UK they have civilian workers for routine paperwork like licence renewal. It frees up a police.

JP22 · 13-03-2021 11:24pm

Basically, its a hit and miss affair, some FO's have an interest in firearms, most however do not, its just a job to be completed.

End of day, its a paperwork job like any other, checking this/that/and the other, however FO's do not work by themselves.

From what I have been told - Local FO's complete all the necessary paperwork and complete any checks/house visits etc. as required, completed paperwork is then submitted to the Area/District FO (normally a Sergeant I believe) for final checking/semi approval and for final submission to the relevant Super authorising the license.

tudderone · 14-03-2021 12:10am

JP22 wrote: »

Basically, its a hit and miss affair, some FO's have an interest in firearms, most however do not, its just a job to be completed.

End of day, its a paperwork job like any other, checking this/that/and the other, however FO's do not work by themselves.

From what I have been told - Local FO's complete all the necessary paperwork and complete any checks/house visits etc. as required, completed paperwork is then submitted to the Area/District FO (normally a Sergeant I believe) for final checking/semi approval and for final submission to the relevant Super authorising the license.

Is that not a dedicated crime prevention officer ?

Vizzy · 14-03-2021 12:16am

JP22 wrote: »

Basically, its a hit and miss affair, some FO's have an interest in firearms, most however do not, its just a job to be completed.

End of day, its a paperwork job like any other, checking this/that/and the other, however FO's do not work by themselves.

From what I have been told - Local FO's complete all the necessary paperwork and complete any checks/house visits etc. as required, completed paperwork is then submitted to the Area/District FO (normally a Sergeant I believe) for final checking/semi approval and for final submission to the relevant Super authorising the license.

Not in my station.
You submit everything and the application is checked by a civilian.
If security checks are necessary, then this is done by the FO, then everything is submitted to the Super for sign off.
Since they started using a civilian to do the initial checking things have sped up quite a bit.

Grizzly 45 · 14-03-2021 12:26am

For most,its a duty that they get lumped with.
Fill in and check routine paperwork and push it up the chain to deal with the decision making.When you have a moment,between stopping people going on holidays,or no staying within 5 click of their house arrests.:rolleyes:

You might be lucky and have the one Gada that actually takes an interest in this specific field of policing and makes an effort to become as informed and knowledgeable in it, as others go and bone up on the road traffic act, or on a field that they are interested in and think it will help up the ladder. It seems [un]fortunatly we don't have too many interested in this aspect of police work

JP22 · 14-03-2021 1:10am

Vizzy wrote: »

Not in my station. You submit everything and the application is checked by a civilian. If security checks are necessary, then this is done by the FO, then everything is submitted to the Super for sign off.
Since they started using a civilian to do the initial checking things have sped up quite a bit.

Yes, some civilians (Secretaries) are now doing the job or checking the applications in some stations, not all, but I believe an area FO (Sgt) must sign off the application before final submission to the Super.

Vizzy · 14-03-2021 1:27am

JP22 wrote: »

Yes, some civilians (Secretaries) are now doing the job or checking the applications in some stations, not all, but I believe an area FO (Sgt) must sign off the application before final submission to the Super.

Yeah, I'd say that you are bang on there, but it is taking a bit of the tedium out of dealing with the applications for the FO, particularly if they trust the civilian/ secretary to have all the boxes ticked correctly before it is submitted to them for sign off.

cookimonster · 14-03-2021 10:08am

It's not actually a vacancy or position, it is an added responsibility, another cap to wear so to speak. The problem is as an 'in addition to', something we see alot in our place, its added onto your work load.
In the case of a rank and file gaurd they must make time to do this on top of thier shift, court dates and anything else they are required to do. It's not something that over time will be given for. One lad I knew had to ask the Skipper to alot him a time slot every month to do the paper work, so you can imagine the backlog accumulating there.
If it's done by the shift Sargent then, if they have any degree of competence there should be no issues as they have less beat time to do. Really your at the mercy of the individual work ethics, so whether they be a shop assistant, tradesman or civil servant if they don't really care you are stuffed.

clivej · 14-03-2021 11:18am

clivej wrote: »

I must have the best FO,
She knows a good bit about licensing but will sometimes ask me when I'm in about what is happening at the moment.
Last license was in and out in 2 weeks and another 1000 rounds on the license.

Here in Kilkenny City we have a dedicated FO. Great at her job.

Half-cocked · 14-03-2021 12:25pm

My FO for the last 10 years is the best I've ever encountered. I dread the day he retires. I once had an FO whom I had to explain to the difference between side by side and over under. Another who I figured knew zero about rifles so I managed to sub a .22lr for a .22-250. Worst was the one who laughed my partner out of the station when she tried to apply for a shotgun license. What would a girl want with a gun? Despite all these examples, the majority of FO's I've dealt with have been good to excellent.

cookimonster · 14-03-2021 12:32pm

clivej wrote: »

Here in Kilkenny City we have a dedicated FO. Great at her job.

We had a Sgt in the local station who did the job for well over 30 years. I got my licence off him when I was 17 and he only retired a few years back. His predecessor, a Gaurd, was dreadful but thankfully he was replaced in less then two years and this lad is excellent and on the ball.

tudderone · 14-03-2021 2:00pm

Half-cocked wrote: »

My FO for the last 10 years is the best I've ever encountered. I dread the day he retires. I once had an FO whom I had to explain to the difference between side by side and over under. Another who I figured knew zero about rifles so I managed to sub a .22lr for a .22-250. Worst was the one who laughed my partner out of the station when she tried to apply for a shotgun license. What would a girl want with a gun? Despite all these examples, the majority of FO's I've dealt with have been good to excellent.

If that happened now it would be on the front of the papers !

Half-cocked · 14-03-2021 2:18pm

tudderone wrote: »

If that happened now it would be on the front of the papers !

Indeed. Times have changed.

Grizzly 45 · 14-03-2021 4:17pm

Guy'd be snowed under courses to check his sexism,white male privilidige,misogeny and everything else that the PC brigade could think of...And deservedly so in this case...
We have an untapped growth potential here of getting women into shooting sports in Ireland, as we actually are genderless in our competitions and have some fine women shooters too.
Arch Femminista Sen Bavik was well impressed with our answers on that point in the Dail public inquiry a awhile back, so having some edjjit like that in authority deserves to be called out.

kravmaga · 14-03-2021 4:21pm

tudderone wrote: »

I know in the UK they have civilian workers for routine paperwork like licence renewal. It frees up a police.

Thats because there is a higher amount of civilisation of UK Police forces compared to AGS.

AGS have a lot of catching up to do.

BattleCorp · 14-03-2021 7:34pm

In the county I'm in, one Garda does the firearms applications for all the stations around. He's a gent to deal with. If there's a delay anywhere, it's further up the chain.

meathstevie · 15-03-2021 1:41am

In the district where I’m living it seems to be part of the pre-retirement or very long service deal together with immigration duties.

It gives you the advantage of dealing with someone with experience to burn when it comes to dealing with the public and from the Garda point of view, if a long serving member in a district hasn’t got a good handle on who’s who in relation to suitability for possessing a firearm then is there any hope anyone does really ? Not all the stuff worth knowing is recorded somewhere.

The last one and the current one are both on the ball, very easy to talk to, quite knowledgeable about firearms and definitely not too stuck up to ask what exactly you’re after if they don’t know the particular gun.

jb88 · 16-03-2021 4:53pm

justbehindit wrote: »

I was just wondering, do the guards who work as FO's have to do much if any training? Like a course on firearms and all things firearm related or do they just learn on the job? It often feels like when ever I'm talking to an FO they're not quite as knowledgeable as you'd expect. Not saying it's their fault or anything, but just wondering if this is the case country wide or just where I'm based.

Had a good chat with the Instructor from an ARU team who was giving training to a team of Gardai once.
I asked what his background was and he said he liked shooting so he got the job.
The lad might as well be staring into a field counting sheep, it was that bad.
Scary is all I will say, very scary and he was the instructor.

He drew a few circles on an A4 piece of paper and put the targets up at 200 yards and asked members to shoot at the circle, how anyone can see a circle marked in pen at 200 yards with a 4 powered scope I will never know, must have better eyes than me and much better shooting skills, but who am I to pass judgement on the professionals and I use that term lightly.

External shooting instructors from outside the Gardai is all I say, if thats the current levels, not to mention 5 shots from 5m to bring down a guy, that vid is still doing the rounds I suppose.
Training, practice, proper instruction its the only way.

A FO gets the job because someone doesnt like them or no one else will do it, or sometimes and thats rare they "like", shooting.

jb88 · 16-03-2021 4:56pm

Half-cocked wrote: »

My FO for the last 10 years is the best I've ever encountered. I dread the day he retires. I once had an FO whom I had to explain to the difference between side by side and over under. Another who I figured knew zero about rifles so I managed to sub a .22lr for a .22-250. Worst was the one who laughed my partner out of the station when she tried to apply for a shotgun license. What would a girl want with a gun? Despite all these examples, the majority of FO's I've dealt with have been good to excellent.

Had that with a Super once, its a pleasure when they are on the ball.

cookimonster · 16-03-2021 5:20pm

jb88 wrote: »

Had a good chat with the Instructor from an ERU team who was giving training to a team of Gardai once.

Without blowing that guys cover, I'm sure I know him, is his name is Mitty, first name Walter.

Dispite all the negative press these guys get, they are a far cry from the Detectives of yesteryear running around with 38's and Uzis.

For feck sake and before this blows up into a free for all slagging match these guys, both in the ERU and ARU, receive extensive training in many different disciplines.

Like special forces training there is a high drop out rate for the courses

otmmyboy2 · 16-03-2021 5:29pm

cookimonster wrote: »

Dispite all the negative press these guys get, they are a far cry from the Detectives of yesteryear running around with 38's and Uzis.

Indeed, now they are armed with Sig 9mms

Well, that and I did read that they are moving those detectives away from being routinely armed and instead using those resources to better train the ASUs.
How truthful or propagandist that is I dunno.

For feck sake and before this blows up into a free for all slagging match these guys, both in the ERU and ARU, receive extensive training in many different disciplines.

I would like to hear some of their quals.
The FBI, DEA, ATF, and various other agencies around the world provide their firearms quals courses of fire, would be fun to try.

Might do up a sure to be denied FOI request later

On their actual qualifications I did have the pleasure of meeting one ASU member and after a relatively lengthy(few hours) chat I would not be very confident in their abilities to shoot to stop a legitimate threat to their/others life.

Witcher · 16-03-2021 5:32pm

There is no Garda unit called the 'ARU'.

freddieot · 16-03-2021 5:33pm

I know of one FO who was give the poison chalice because he was the one in the station that knew f**k all about guns (i.e. even less than the others).

The Supers logic, and in fairness this was years ago, was that if he gave the job to someone who liked shooting or was interested in it then he might be swayed or get carried away and be too understanding or too helpful. Better to have someone who can't stand guns, knows nothing much about them and does not want to know

It's come a ways since then and my local guys are great as they are in many places but that attitude still persists in certain domains or so I'm told.

cookimonster · 16-03-2021 5:35pm

otmmyboy2 wrote: »

On their actual qualifications I did have the pleasure of meeting one ARU member and after a relatively lengthy(few hours) chat I would not be very confident in their abilities to shoot to stop a legitimate threat to their/others life.

Care to elaborate on that, based on your own skill sets or qualifications.

tudderone · 16-03-2021 5:39pm

I used to know an armed detective, a friend of a friend sort of thing. He showed me what he was carrying, A rattly old .38 revolver that must have been left over from the Siege of Mafeking. Not the sort of thing i'd like to be entrusting my safety to.

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