Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings

walus · 13-03-2021 05:56PM

PapaBill wrote: »

I can't agree totally Fintan. Although
I do think the Irish driver has decided to err on the side of caution, ensuring no fiery crash short term against the very real but longer term, therefore as yet unknown economic, emotional and psychological costs.
The result of releasing the break, which has been done several times now is obvious. I think too the rest of the world is a long way from the bottom of the hill. I wish you well.

This is not about driving a truck, it is more like navigating a ship. Secondary effects and long term impact must be taken into account today and not when it hits you in the face 6 months or later.

Boggles · 13-03-2021 05:56PM

walus wrote: »

As fir the ICU and hospitals in general they were busy 2 months this past year. Throughout the other 10 months the6 were exceptionally quiet.

ICU's are never "exceptionally quiet".

That's not how a functioning health system operates.

titan18 · 13-03-2021 05:57PM

gozunda wrote: »

Not even our nearest neighbour- who are miles ahead in their vaccination rollout have yet opened hairdressers. And at the earliest won't be opening them until mid April.

And no one is laughing at any one out of a job. If anyone I'd reckon Leo was laughing at himself. No harm ther

Hairdressers open in most countries across Europe though. It's one of the first things they reopen which to me shows how safe it is.

CalamariFritti · 13-03-2021 05:58PM

PapaBill wrote: »

Imagine being behind the wheel of an overweight articulated lorry and you are free wheeling down the Mamore Gap. You have been given a speed range of 70 - 80 km/hr. You have been told that if you go too slow people will die (long term, economic collapse and associated emotional and psychological conditions) and if you go too fast people will die (short term in a fiery crash). Other than the steering wheel, the only control you have is a brake which is either full on or full off. To make matters more interesting there is a time lag of 3 - 5 minutes from the time you activate / deactivate the break and the time it takes effect. This is what governments have been facing for the last year.

It's a choice they made. The decided to go nuclear, suppress science and debate, manipulate media and people, exaggerate and stir hysteria wherever possible. And now it dawns on them they may have manoeuvred themselves into a rabbit hole.

Since Im at the receiving end of all that sh1t they came up with you will forgive me for not feeling very sorry for them.

walus · 13-03-2021 05:58PM

Boggles wrote: »

ICU's are never "exceptionally quiet".

That's not how a functioning health system operates.

Nit-picking again Boogles? I’ll watch the paint dry...

Boggles · 13-03-2021 05:59PM

walus wrote: »

Nit-picking again Boogles? I’ll watch the paint dry...

Pointing on gross falsehoods is not nit picking.

walus · 13-03-2021 06:01PM

Boggles wrote: »

Pointing on gross falsehoods is not nit picking.

What you doing has nothing to do with the merit of that discussion. It is nit picking.

themacattack. · 13-03-2021 06:03PM

gozunda wrote: »

Not even our nearest neighbour- who are miles ahead in their vaccination rollout have yet opened hairdressers. And at the earliest won't be opening them until mid April.

And no one is laughing at any one out of a job. If anyone I'd reckon Leo was laugh at himself. No harm ther

so what?are we following the uks plan or something?i wish we were tbh at least there would be some sort of a way out....i dont believe that any of the business i mentioned should ever have been shut in the first place...my point about leo chuckling away about his messy hair was imagine you are a barber sitting at home listening to that...your business has been shut down unnessarily maybe you have lost everything by now all savings gone bills mounting maybe your partner is working in hospitality sitting at home with no job...future looking bleak...and the people in charge of the shambles having a little laugh about their hair....

PapaBill · 13-03-2021 06:03PM

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

ðŸ˜„ thanks, there's a country song for every situation ðŸ˜·

PapaBill · 13-03-2021 06:14PM

walus wrote: »

This is not about driving a truck, it is more like navigating a ship. Secondary effects and long term impact must be taken into account today and not when it hits you in the face 6 months or later.

Whatever floats your boat

FintanMcluskey · 13-03-2021 06:17PM

PapaBill wrote: »

I can't agree totally Fintan. Although
I do think the Irish driver has decided to err on the side of caution, ensuring no fiery crash short term against the very real but longer term, therefore as yet unknown economic, emotional and psychological costs.
The result of releasing the break, which has been done several times now is obvious. I think too the rest of the world is a long way from the bottom of the hill. I wish you well.

Ireland has one of the EUs highest number of vulnerable deaths

Ireland has the EUs longest lockdown

Despite a team of 39 truck drivers, the Irish truck is fcuked

growleaves · 13-03-2021 06:19PM

Swiss voters just rejected a digital verification ID system.

Penfailed · 13-03-2021 06:24PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

That would be too hard to manage me thinks. People will travel from the counties with the tighter restrictions

Lots of Dubs around Waterford back in September/October etc

Surely the 5km thing is harder to manage...no?

Boggles · 13-03-2021 06:39PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ireland has one of the EUs highest number of vulnerable deaths

Could we see up to date citation for this please?

PapaBill · 13-03-2021 06:41PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ireland has one of the EUs highest number of vulnerable deaths

Ireland has the EUs longest lockdown

Despite a team of 39 truck drivers, the Irish truck is fcuked

Not sure what the definition of vulnerable deaths is or where your data comes from. Per "worldometer" Ireland has 908 deaths per million of population. Holland has 930, Poland has 1245, France has 1379, Spain has 1545, Portugal has 1636, Italy has 1682, Belgium has 1927. If Ireland had the same covid deaths per capita as Belgium, where Sean Kelly goes for his haircuts, there would be an additional 5070 dead in Ireland.

Penfailed · 13-03-2021 06:43PM

PapaBill wrote: »

Not sure what the definition of vulnerable deaths is or where your data comes from. Per "worldometer" Ireland has 908 deaths per million of population. Holland has 930, Poland has 1245, France has 1379, Spain has 1545, Portugal has 1636, Italy has 1682, Belgium has 1927. If Ireland had the same covid deaths per capita as Belgium, where Sean Kelly goes for his haircuts, there would be an additional 5070 dead in Ireland.

Fintan always uses a different metric to support his argument. It's usually the over 65s or over 70s or something.

Boggles · 13-03-2021 06:43PM

walus wrote: »

What you doing has nothing to do with the merit of that discussion. It is nit picking.

The discussion was around ICU capacity.

Claiming Ireland's ICU's were exceptionally quiet for 10 months is a complete false hood.

Now you can counter that claim by providing evidence that backs up your assertion.

So when you are ready.

Blut2 · 13-03-2021 06:43PM

Boggles wrote: »

ICU's are never "exceptionally quiet".

That's not how a functioning health system operates.

These are the figures for acute bed usage in Irish hospitals over the last 4 years:

People don't realize that our health system is on the brink of collapse almost all of the time in Ireland, and has been for years.

Using it to justify indefinite lockdown for covid moving forwards makes no sense. 2020 was the lowest capacity usage year on record.

Boggles · 13-03-2021 06:54PM

Blut2 wrote: »

These are the figures for acute bed usage in Irish hospitals over the last 4 years:

People don't realize that our health system is on the brink of collapse almost all of the time in Ireland, and has been for years.

Using it to justify indefinite lockdown for covid moving forwards makes no sense. 2020 was the lowest capacity usage year on record.

Your table glaringly illustrates a health system that is not functioning as normal for 10 months of 2020.

Blut2 · 13-03-2021 06:57PM

Boggles wrote: »

Your table glaringly illustrates a health system that is not functioning as normal for 10 months of 2020.

"not functioning as normal" yes I agree, as in it was under far less pressure than normal. Thats pretty clear from the figures.

walus · 13-03-2021 07:07PM

Boggles wrote: »

The discussion was around ICU capacity.

Claiming Ireland's ICU's were exceptionally quiet for 10 months is a complete false hood.

Now you can counter that claim by providing evidence that backs up your assertion.

So when you are ready.

The discussion was about the number of deaths. And as the argument of savage death toll does not stand up to scrutiny much it was quickly deflected onto the ICU beds, as always.

I’m not going to be dragged yet again into “providing evidence”. That the hospitals were quiet for weeks and months on end this past year, is a general knowledge at this stage. If you claim otherwise I’m happy to see the evidence.

Edit: And what Blut2 posted just above is a partial evidence that confirms what I said.

walus · 13-03-2021 07:12PM

Boggles wrote: »

Your table glaringly illustrates a health system that is not functioning as normal for 10 months of 2020.

It also proves that you talking nonsense.

Ha Long Bay · 13-03-2021 07:22PM

Blut2 wrote: »

"not functioning as normal" yes I agree, as in it was under far less pressure than normal. Thats pretty clear from the figures.

Just curious where you got that table from? It looks like it's from an article from a far right conspiricy theory website?

Gript even had a go at the article which is not a good sign.

"There are a couple of problems with this analysis, however. First, hospital occupancy by itself is not a very reliable figure unless you can be absolutely certain that the number of beds stayed constant. For example, if in one year a hospital has 100 beds, and on a given day, 90 people are in them, then the hospital has 90% occupancy. But suppose that the very next year, the hospital has 200 beds, and 150 people in them. Then the hospital only has 75% occupancy. To simply look at the percentages, you might think that there were fewer people in hospital in the second year, when actually there were nearly twice as many people in hospital. It’s just not a very reliable number on its own.

Of course, it is unlikely that Irish hospitals doubled the available number of beds. But some level of increase is likely, and that may account for some of the figures."

Boggles · 13-03-2021 07:26PM

Blut2 wrote: »

"not functioning as normal" yes I agree, as in it was under far less pressure than normal. Thats pretty clear from the figures.

See your problem is and I assume the figures are accurate - you could link to where you pulled the data from?

You see a relatively high percentage drop in acute hospitalizations as a positive, in reality the absolute opposite is true.

Boggles · 13-03-2021 07:27PM

walus wrote: »

It also proves that you talking nonsense.

Again, by all means fire up the ICU data.

In your good time.

Blut2 · 13-03-2021 07:27PM

john4321 wrote: »

Just curious where you got that table from? It looks like it's from an article from a far right conspiricy theory website?

Gript even had a go at the article which is not a good sign.

"There are a couple of problems with this analysis, however. First, hospital occupancy by itself is not a very reliable figure unless you can be absolutely certain that the number of beds stayed constant. For example, if in one year a hospital has 100 beds, and on a given day, 90 people are in them, then the hospital has 90% occupancy. But suppose that the very next year, the hospital has 200 beds, and 150 people in them. Then the hospital only has 75% occupancy. To simply look at the percentages, you might think that there were fewer people in hospital in the second year, when actually there were nearly twice as many people in hospital. It’s just not a very reliable number on its own.

Of course, it is unlikely that Irish hospitals doubled the available number of beds. But some level of increase is likely, and that may account for some of the figures."

No idea where you're getting that from. It was posted on broadsheet.ie, a fairly left-wing news website.

Either way though its HSE data released to a FOI request. Who made the FOI doesn't really matter - the data is authentic, and speaks for itself.

The data on the number of available beds in Irish hospitals is also available - they did not double. They barely increased at all. So thats not a valid criticism. Irish hospitals were very empty for most of 2020 compared to most years.

edit: if you want a secondary source:

For example from that we have less Trolley days this February [2021] (3,465) compared to February last year [pre-corona] (10,446).

All of the data coming out, from every source, shows how little strain Irish hospitals were under from corona compared to a normal year.

Ha Long Bay · 13-03-2021 07:30PM

Blut2 wrote: »

No idea where you're getting that from. It was posted on broadsheet.ie, a fairly left-wing news website.

Either way though its HSE data released to a FOI request. Who made the FOI doesn't really matter - the data is authentic, and speaks for itself.

The data on the number of available beds in Irish hospitals is also available - they did not double. They barely increased at all. So thats not a valid criticism. Irish hospitals were very empty for most of 2020 compared to most years.

The original source is here:

https://freepress.ie/2021/03/exclusive-irish-foi-data-release-proves-there-was-no-pandemic/

Far right conspiracy theory site.

bazermc · 13-03-2021 07:32PM

I think people can forget any official easing of restrictions with the case numbers the way they are and the behaviour of people.

Plenty of people still not wearing face masks in shops and my neighbour seems to not care about covid with gangs of people coming and going from her house.

walus · 13-03-2021 07:32PM

Boggles wrote: »

Again, by all means fire up the ICU data.

In your good time.

Sorry Boggles, we have had this discussion here before. Open your mind, the evidence is right in front of you.

Boggles · 13-03-2021 07:34PM

walus wrote: »

Sorry Boggles, we have had this discussion here before. Open your mind, the evidence is right in front of you.

So no evidence to back up your claim?

We will mark it as false so.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings