Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings

Russman · 12-03-2021 04:08PM

wakka12 wrote: »

So Joe Biden has anncounced that nationwide gatherings and celebrations for 4th of July look feasible, UK is also set to allow lagre gatherings and celebration by July as well. No doubt most of Europe will follow suit even if vaccinations are lagging behind those places and will have at least close to normal summer holidays.

I'm scared to know what NPHET's ideal timeline would be, I really wouldn't be surprised if they said no chance of large gatherings or festivals in the rest of 2021, not a bit surprised.

Was anyone ever really expecting full stadiums or festivals this year though ?
Might happen in Sept/Oct when anyone who wants to will be fully vaccinated, but I'd guess not a chance when most have only had one jab.

FintanMcluskey · 12-03-2021 04:09PM

gozunda wrote: »

I believe one of the biggest issues is people here thinking that Ireland alone is dealing with a pandemic or that we have problems that other countries do not.

Lockdown levels/ restrictions are difficult at best to compare across sub-regions such as Europe and nigh on impossible when it comes to the US or futher afield.

Our different levels of restrictions have varied from the lowest to the highest over the last year

The present level of restrictions came from an increase which was observable in August / September/ October. This was rolled back for 3 weeks with the knowledge due to rising levels we would likley return to a similar level in January. Which is exactly what happened.

The UK and Germany are perhaps two countries that adopted a similar approach (and no I'm not comparing them directly) but the difference was they didn't roll back restrictions prior to Christmas and are now only starting to open up with a long way to go - just as we are.

You are only fabricating stories when suggesting Ireland has not had the longest suppression measures of the rest of Europe.

Non essential retail and business were closed for nearly twice as long as the rest of Europe last year before these additional lockdowns in October and December.

We can argue all day about the cost effectiveness of the mitigation measures, what you can’t argue is the fact they exist, and the existed for longer in Ireland then the rest of Europe.

So exactly when did Ireland have the “lowest restrictions”?

It’s a ridiculous statement tbh

lee_baby_simms · 12-03-2021 04:10PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Can't comprehend what state the mental health of the country will be like a big %

That is beyond a joke and we know it will just be accepted with no challenge.

Like you say - they can do what they want. The public will accept it bar a small minority who will be tarred with the broad “right wing racists” brush.

wakka12 · 12-03-2021 04:11PM

Russman wrote: »

Was anyone ever really expecting full stadiums or festivals this year though ?
Might happen in Sept/Oct when anyone who wants to will be fully vaccinated, but I'd guess not a chance when most have only had one jab.

No I wasn't expecting it but it will just be ridiculous when most of the world will be indulging in those kind of activites while Ireland will probably be 6 months behind most countries worldwide

Charles Babbage · 12-03-2021 04:13PM

Monster249 wrote: »

Our ICUs were flooded but not overrun with 200+ in ICU with Covid. We can handle a lot more than they've made us out to be able to handle.

It isn't rocket science, they can handle that number by postponing other health care, but this needs to resume now which requires that hospitals are not bunged with Covid patients.

SnuggyBear · 12-03-2021 04:15PM

Boggles wrote: »

I'm not the one feigning outrage.

Speaking of which, that Doctor has gone very quiet has he given any more thoughts since?

I saw an article the other day. He's still against restrictions.

Russman · 12-03-2021 04:15PM

wakka12 wrote: »

No I wasn't expecting it but it will just be ridiculous when most of the world will be indulging in those kind of activites while Ireland will probably be 6 months behind most countries worldwide

I don't believe that will happen. Who knows what 6 months down the line might look like though ? Even today we read about Portugal easing restrictions and Italy looking to increase them. All countries are being driven by the pressure on their health care systems right now, it'll be the same in the summer I think.

Graham · 12-03-2021 04:17PM

ypres5 wrote: »

remember by that point the uk will have reintroduced international travel for 2 months at that point. it's going to be worse than this time last year

And what percentage of the UK population will be vaccinated at that point?

Monster249 · 12-03-2021 04:17PM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

It isn't rocket science, they can handle that number by postponing other health care, but this needs to resume now which requires that hospitals are not bunged with Covid patients.

The healthcare they postponed was non-essential which mostly doesn't take up ICU capacity.

And even if it did, I understand that point but then my point still remains that it's egregious that they haven't put funding towards increasing this (like other nations have) over the last 12 months.

Either way, their plan of 'well we'll keep everything shut to paper over the cracks in our healthcare system' is unacceptable. Is that the best our leadership team, that we pay millions a year for, can come up with? Really?

Corby Trouser Press · 12-03-2021 04:21PM

Hurrache wrote: »

RTE haven't brought in the restrictions though, a bizarre link that some people actually may make. It's news, it's relevant, and they're reporting it, that's all, Misery Guts Lee aside.

An easing of restrictions would almost never lead the news though.

The only exceptions in the narrow minded world of Irish media are for the UK or the US.

If Bad Man Boris is seen to be easing too quickly the Irish commentariat can tut and groan and wonder if he is "following the science" or "being reckless" cos ya know he's stupid Brexity Boris and we are much better then him and his lot across the water.

Or if there is a Republican Governor declaring an easing down of restrictions in their State there can be a nice round of hysterics from our media about Trumpism, etc, etc.

Did Germany's significant easing on 1st March lead the news?
Does the fact that Germany never closed access to public worship, never closed constructions sites and allowed hairdressers back on 1st March get a mention?

gozunda · 12-03-2021 04:24PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

You are only fabricating stories when suggesting Ireland has not had the longest suppression measures of the rest of Europe.

*Non essential retail and business were closed for nearly twice as long as the rest of Europe last year before these additional lockdowns in October and December.

We can argue all day about the cost effectiveness of the mitigation measures, what you can’t argue is the fact they exist, and the existed for longer in Ireland then the rest of Europe.

So exactly when did Ireland have the “lowest restrictions”?

It’s a ridiculous statement tbh

You're correct in one regard what you've said is indeed "ridiculous" But otherwise you're completely wrong and incorrect.

How the fuq is it even possible to accurately compare all of one countries restrictions with the many and varied restrictions of multiple countries all with different restrictions and levels all across Europe? And specific restrictions on "Non essential retail and business" does not equate to Ireland alone being the worst at everything by any means

You've just made up your mind that Ireland is the worstest at everything restriction wise and that's that.

Of course we have restrictions in place- Ireland and the rest of Europe and the world are in the midst of a pandemic.

The UK have in many regards a much stricter lockdown todate than we have. And yet here you are again beating the same drum that Ireland is the bad boy of Europe.

As to Irelands restrictions and variations- the lowest was level 2 afaik - last September. I've no idea how that translates to any other countries restrictions.

Graham · 12-03-2021 04:25PM

Corby Trouser Press wrote: »

Does the fact that Germany never closed access to public worship, never closed constructions sites and allowed hairdressers back on 1st March get a mention?

Here is todays news, we're going to list a lot of things another country hasn't done......

ypres5 · 12-03-2021 04:27PM

Graham wrote: »

And what percentage of the UK population will be vaccinated at that point?

so do you see us allowing international travel when we reach the same level as the uk? they're already on about a winter lockdown here already

12-03-2021 04:29PM

Comparing countries without context doesn't make sense. There are tons of variables.

All countries are have different hospital capacities for example.

You'd swear it was a big conspiracy to keep the country locked down for a laugh.

It'll get better this year. Things are already improving. Older people are getting vaccinated. That's massive. Less deaths.

gozunda · 12-03-2021 04:31PM

wakka12 wrote: »

No I wasn't expecting it but it will just be ridiculous when most of the world will be indulging in those kind of activites while Ireland will probably be 6 months behind most countries worldwide

Will they? In all seriousness looking at current rising levels of infection and moves by some countries to reimpose removed restrictions whilst vaccination is ongoing in order to keep a lid on things - I highly doubt that tbh.

I also seriously doubt we're going to pretend everything is hunky dorry just so we can copy what others might be doing.

What we do know is that vaccinations means we can move forward towards less restrictions just like everywhere else. Is eveyone going to get there at the same time? No they're not.

Corby Trouser Press · 12-03-2021 04:32PM

Graham wrote: »

Here is todays news, we're going to list a lot of things another country hasn't done......

If it bleeds, it leads I suppose.

Germany's easing ant Italy's tightening are no less newsworthy then each other though.

Graham · 12-03-2021 04:36PM

ypres5 wrote: »

so do you see us allowing international travel when we reach the same level as the uk?

Yes

ypres5 wrote: »

they're already on about a winter lockdown here already

not really

FintanMcluskey · 12-03-2021 04:37PM

gozunda wrote: »

You're correct in one regard what you've said is indeed "ridiculous" But otherwise you're completely wrong and incorrect.

How the fuq is it even possible to accurately compare all of one countries restrictions with the many and varied restrictions of multiple countries all with different restrictions and levels all across Europe? And specific restrictions on "Non essential retail and business" does not equate to Ireland being the worst at everything by any means looking at a number of other EU countries.

You've just made up your mind that Ireland is the worstest at everything and that's that.

Of course we have restrictions in place- Ireland and the rest of Europe and the world are in the midst of a pandemic.

The UK have in many regards a much stricter lockdown todate than we have. And yet here you are again beating the same drum that Ireland is the bad boy of Europe.

As to Irelands restrictions and variations- the lowest was level 2 afaik - last September. I've no idea how that translates to any other countries restrictions.

Where is the ambiguity in the fact that Ireland has the longest closures of non essential businesses and retail?

That’s not a confusing metric to understand.

Or perhaps that before the lockdowns in October and December Ireland had the 2nd hardest hit GNP in the EU after Spain.

Or that construction value to the economy fell greater in Ireland than anywhere in Europe.

Or that construction now closed here but it’s opened in every nation across the globe.

Can you highlight what mitigation measures the UK have that Ireland currently don’t?

The best way to summarise the mitigation measures is, all countries have some, Ireland has them all

ypres5 · 12-03-2021 04:40PM

Graham wrote: »

Yes

not really

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/leo-varadkar-cant-rule-out-23475803.amp&ved=2ahUKEwi9x8S0i6vvAhXNasAKHexYBNwQFjAAegQIAhAC&usg=AOvVaw2hA89LVuQJ6YZwrBoetYTj&ampcf=1

Yes really

W123-80's · 12-03-2021 04:51PM

wakka12 wrote: »

No I wasn't expecting it but it will just be ridiculous when most of the world will be indulging in those kind of activites while Ireland will probably be 6 months behind most countries worldwide

I don't think the situation will manifest.

If the UK plan works and they manage to stick to their dates that means vaccines are working well, variants aren't messing with efficacy and the data/numbers are all good.
That scenario would be incredible news for us and for the rest of the world.

We would not be far behind the UK if not pretty much parallel with them in terms of easing restrictions if that happened.

I'm not sure how you think we will be 6 months behind the UK and the rest of the world?

gozunda · 12-03-2021 04:51PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Where is the ambiguity in the fact that Ireland has the longest closures of non essential businesses and retail?

That’s not a confusing metric to understand.

Or perhaps that before the lockdowns in October and December Ireland had the 2nd hardest hit GNP in the EU after Spain.

Or that construction value to the economy fell greater in Ireland than anywhere in Europe.
Or that construction now closed here but it’s opened in every nation across the globe.
Can you highlight what mitigation measures the UK have that Ireland currently don’t?
The best way to summarise the mitigation measures is, all countries have some, Ireland has them all

First - what source are you using for your claim? And second which "mitigation measures" do you refer to?

How about some alternative facts
Ireland’s economy grew by 3.4% last year despite Covid-19 restrictions on the back of record growth in the export sector or that Ireland’s was the only EU economy to grow last year as multinationals rode out Covid.

And it remains looking at only non essential retail and business related restrictions does not mean that Ireland is the worstest restrictions by any means

The construction industry remains open for essential developments. Lots of retail is also open and doing very well.

Yes we have Strong restrictions at present and we have them for good reasons which are related to the capacity of our healthcare resources.

Going forward those restrictions can be rolled back as vaccinations levels increase. It doesn't help keep going on how we the very worst. It helps nothing.

12-03-2021 04:54PM

ypres5 wrote: »

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/leo-varadkar-cant-rule-out-23475803.amp&ved=2ahUKEwi9x8S0i6vvAhXNasAKHexYBNwQFjAAegQIAhAC&usg=AOvVaw2hA89LVuQJ6YZwrBoetYTj&ampcf=1

Yes really

Boris mentioned same thing across the pond few weeks back, so disheartening. Wonder if any other country leaders mentioned similar.

W123-80's · 12-03-2021 05:02PM

gansi wrote: »

Boris mentioned same thing across the pond few weeks back, so disheartening. Wonder if any other country leaders mentioned similar.

Disheartening it may be, but it is the reality of the situation.

Ireland are not the only country considering the possibility of winter restrictions.
It would be foolish to ignore that possibility.

As Boris Johnson and Michael Martin have both alluded to.
I'm not sure if there are any examples of other leaders addressing this topic?

RGS · 12-03-2021 05:03PM

Cant find the study at the moment but Irelands restrictions were deemed within the top 6 harshest in the world behind places like eithrea, Venezuela.

We also have closed our golf courses the longest in the world. Over 180 days compared to around 60 in Scotland.

With the all in approach on vaccines and the delivery problems I honestly feel even staycation could be in jeopardy this year.

dalyboy · 12-03-2021 05:04PM

gansi wrote: »

Boris mentioned same thing across the pond few weeks back, so disheartening. Wonder if any other country leaders mentioned similar.

I hope not.
If lockdown can be initiated for flu next winter our lives are fundamentally negatively altered from here on in.

It could be used as a trigger for numerous other reasons other than covid or influenza times.

Stormy weather due ? Lock down
Climate change emissions high ? Lock down
Localised crime in an area ? Lock down
Etc etc

It’d be like living in a farm and we are the farm animals.
All that would be missing would be to be micro tagged.

ypres5 · 12-03-2021 05:06PM

RGS wrote: »

Cant find the study at the moment but Irelands restrictions were deemed within the top 6 harshest in the world behind places like eithrea, Venezuela.

We also have closed our golf courses the longest in the world. Over 180 days compared to around 60 in Scotland.

With the all in approach on vaccines and the delivery problems I honestly feel even staycation could be in jeopardy this year.

we're third strictest in the world with only ****holes like cuba and eritrea worse than us

Graham · 12-03-2021 05:08PM

W123-80's wrote: »

Disheartening it may be, but it is the reality of the situation.

Ireland are not the only country considering the possibility of winter restrictions.
It would be foolish to ignore that possibility.

As Boris Johnson and Michael Martin have both alluded to.
I'm not sure if there are any examples of other leaders addressing this topic?

I understood the only mention so far has been along the lines of we can't completely rule it out.

gozunda · 12-03-2021 05:11PM

Corby Trouser Press wrote: »

An easing of restrictions would almost never lead the news though.

The only exceptions in the narrow minded world of Irish media are for the UK or the US.

If Bad Man Boris is seen to be easing too quickly the Irish commentariat can tut and groan and wonder if he is "following the science" or "being reckless" cos ya know he's stupid Brexity Boris and we are much better then him and his lot across the water.

Or if there is a Republican Governor declaring an easing down of restrictions in their State there can be a nice round of hysterics from our media about Trumpism, etc, etc.

Did Germany's significant easing on 1st March lead the news?
Does the fact that Germany never closed access to public worship, never closed constructions sites and allowed hairdressers back on 1st March get a mention?

Erh do you mean the news that only hairdressers and barbers were reopening on a national basis ? Or that the rest of Germanies restrictions were extended to March 28th?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/world/arid-40237514.html

Yeah Looks like Germany had a full on knees up over Christmas all right :rolleyes:

https://www.thejournal.ie/germany-christmas-covid-restrictions-brought-in-5298205-Dec2020/

A full lockdown was imposed prior to Christmas due to Covid surge and whilst religious services were permitted - there were strict provisions regarding minimum distancing rules and mask wearing with no singing allowed.

Yeah and most of that was in the press afaik.

gozunda · 12-03-2021 05:14PM

gansi wrote: »

Boris mentioned same thing across the pond few weeks back, so disheartening. Wonder if any other country leaders mentioned similar.

In the UK It was talked about as far back as January that 'some' restrictions would likely be brought in for winter 2021

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-some-covid-restrictions-could-return-next-winter-chief-medical-officer-warns-12180133

ypres5 · 12-03-2021 05:14PM

Graham wrote: »

I understood the only mention so far has been along the lines of we can't completely rule it out.

i thought you said they hadn't mentioned it?

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings