Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Mobility data is a reflection of the restrictions in place and how well they're being adhered to.
At the moment Portugal, Slovakia, Czech Rep, the UK and Italy are all significantly less mobile than us.

Slovakia and the Czech republic are currently going through an abbsolute disaster, and have been seeking help from other EU nations like Germany.
They are locked the **** down.

Portugal had an even worse Chritmas period than us. They had to shut parks and beaches to get a handle on things.
They've done that though, and fair play to them, they now have a lower incidence level than us.

The UK are in great shape and will start relaxing some things soon. But in recent months their restrictions have been more severe than ours.

Italy, as is all over the news, is about to enter a brand new national lockdown. The poor bastards.

All that to say - the idea that we're currently under the harshest restrictions in Europe is just plain old wrong. The longest? Perhaps. If you ignore December or insist it was merely a break.

You cant compare mobility data from different countries. There are so many variables - settlement patterns, distance from employment, how far from your nearest shop etc. Its apples and oranges.

ypres5 wrote: »

i suppose you think nigeria and the uk have the same obesity rates so that explains why you're having trouble understanding that I said you and others blame the public solely i never said I blamed anyone solely you're misunderstanding my use of the word and I'm not sure if it's accidental or deliberate

No not confused at all your own comments explain everything...

ypres5 wrote:

of course you an others ignore the uk flights the government chartered and instead blame the public solely. if you're going to accuse others of sticking fingers in their ears look in the mirror first

ypres5 wrote:

you brought up tony not me. projecting much? and i never said solely i just said I find it amazing you and others never mention the government flights when you start raving about Christmas.

No worries...

JDD wrote: »

There's three things that are different about this summer than last Christmas:

1. Everybody at Christmas knew that restrictions were going to be reintroduced from January. We may not have expected them to be this long and this difficult, but everyone knew that indoor dining would probably go. So there was a sort of panic to get in as much living as possible in those three weeks, which led to the free for all.

2. It was winter, socialising was indoors, which vastly increases the spread of infection.

3. This summer we should have all over 70's and vulnerable vaccinated. That means even if everything is opened, everyone goes mad having parties and packing out Pennys, there should be nowhere near the same hospitalisations. So it may be the case that we could happily tick along with 3 or 4 or 5 thousand cases a day, without our hospital system becoming overwhelmed. And that peak will come down naturally, as more are vaccinated, rather than having to put back in restrictions.


It's really only this window right now that's at issue: March to June. How much do we open, when we're at an average of 500 a day, and when we are pretty far from getting the over 70's and vulnerable vaccinated. I can see why they are being pretty cautious. But I'd put money on retail and hospitality being open before the June Bank holiday.

Cant see them opening anything before june bank holiday people would go mad on the beer and packing shopping centres it will be late july i think before hotels /pubs/nightclubs open

acequion wrote: »

What alarms me is the 1] The complete lack of proportion and 2] the complete lack of respect for the people.

On 1. It's outlandish that non essential retail and services like hairdressers /barbers are not opining in early April. Not everyone is comfortable with online shopping so click and collect is not good enough. People need stuff and it's so frustrating, not to mention ridiculous, to keep places like Penney's closed and have so much practical merchandise cordoned off in places like Dunnes. Also, people need simple things like haircuts for their hygiene and well being and it's just outlandish to keep these places closed much longer. That's only two examples of the lack of balance and proportion, there's a plethora of others. Keeping counties of very low incidence on exactly the same level as others is another and there are many more. And don't get me started on the travel restrictions, both national and international! Everything is extreme and disproportionate.

On 2. It's probably because we're a nation of sheep and lap dogs that they're treating us like dirt. No fear of us whatsoever as they announce their diktats and push their propaganda. So different to the tentative announcements at the start as they tested the waters but they needn't have worried. You can impose anything on the Irish! That is absolutely shocking in a modern democracy and people really need to wake up to that fact. And it's not only the powers that be. You need only read posts here and on general social media to see how little respect many have for others. Their needs are merely shrugged off and everyone is expected to just suck it up. Too bad that many are at breaking point, Covid is the only show in town.

I really do hope that people will soon wake up and push back. Business groups need to start pushing hard, this crap has to be challenged. Because without people reclaiming their fundamental rights god only knows how much worse this straightjacket gets before it gets any better. But knowing the form of the Irish and the fact that many actually agree with all this zealotry, I'm hugely worried.

It's just that some of us view hospitals and schools as being more important than penney's and haircuts right now. We don't want to jeopardise the most important things to society.

If that's zealotry, then I guess I'm a big ****ing zealot.

Dickie10 wrote: »

Cant see them opening anything before june bank holiday people would go mad on the beer and packing shopping centres it will be late july i think before hotels /pubs/nightclubs open

Better wait till after the August bank holiday then. People would go too mad.

Or maybe the October bank holiday. Actually by then probably safer to wait till after Christmas

gozunda wrote: »

Well you see Klonker. I didn't ask you "did reopening at Christmas contribute to the surge in cases" at all. So its you who is: indeed

And no the comment is not directed at 'you' with regard to any 'blame' personally btw. No idea where you got that idea from btw.

It is odd whenever anyone points out we're still mopping up the ****efest that led to the highest rate of infection some people ignore that and engage in an apparent daft game of 'its someone else's fault whaaaa.' Or wtte. As exactly what did happen in this thread.

The problem with the covid pandemic is that - it is dynamic and really doesn't fit with nailing promises to a mast and flogging the captain when those promises get flitted by the winds of change

And no - no one I know is happy with restrictions. That said even the UK is playing a cautious game with its rollback of restrictions with lots of opt out clauses if and where things go pear-shaped. And likle the UK our current restrictions are broadly in line with where we are at at this point in time - that is likley to change as vaccinations numbers ramp up. Demanding things should open up before that happens ain't going to help anything.

Btw I've seen the use of the phrase "people like you" and it is always used as a Pejorative term as it was imho

Well you were responding to my post and said you don't engage in the blame game, I think the rational thing for someone to think is you were referencing me in your comment if you didn't say otherwise.

I don't see anyone demanding anything. How could demanding government to do something on an internet forum achieve anything? I don't anyone thinks Boards is that important It is a place for people to air and exchange views on certain topics.

What would 'people like you' even mean in an Internet discussion with a person that I know absolutely nothing about? Maybe, just maybe it means people who are on your side of the discussion on the thread that has been going back and forward for the last few months. Is that offensive?

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I did read the entire comment in context. You talk about how you don't play the blame game, yet you keep playing the blame game. Sometimes, you like to blame people for a hypothetical event that hasn't happened yet (repeat of christmas).

If you were only having a go at that small minority, that would be fair enough - I completely agree that opening everything, or even a substantial amount of things right now would be a big mistake. It's the fact that you and others respond to anyone expressing the slightest bit of dissatisfaction with the current restrictions with "blah blah remember christmas" that rubs people up the wrong way.

Well Doctor Jimbob. Its quite clear now you didn't.

The blame game refers to the endless- "its their fault" or wtte when anyone brings up the fact that we ended up with the highest rate of infection in the world in January. That's the 'minority' here to who I refer. Not anyone else. That's not having a go btw - it's an observation because its something which has happened many times in this forum already.

But funnily enough btw no I've not blamed "people for a hypothetical event that hasn't happened yet" Precisely because that hasn't happened.

And people really need to get thicker skins if they can't face that reality of what has happened and are "rubbed up the wrong way" by it simply being discussed.

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Italy, as is all over the news, is about to enter a brand new national lockdown. The poor bastards.

Italy is not going to enter another national lockdown. The restrictions are still going to be per-region. The way it works at the moment is that they take several numbers (number of patients in hospitals, number of patients in ICU, positive swabs, etc) and depending on those there is a framework to decide if a region is while, yellow, orange or red (from the least restrictions to the most).
At the moment they're making the requirements to not be red more strict (250 cases per 100000 people will throw you in red automatically) and the whole country is going to be red for easter (3-4-5 april).

You can see the current colors on http://www.governo.it/it/articolo/domande-frequenti-sulle-misure-adottate-dal-governo/15638

There is a country wide curfew from 22pm to 5am and mask have to be worn outside - mask apply to all colors, curfew not to white.
Red is kinda like our level 5, but you can get an haircut. You can do exercise, but it has to be near your home (there is no exact definition of this, which is pretty stupid to be honest).
Orange you can meet other families, schools are supposed to be open and non essential retails is open. Restaurants/bar/pubs are open but have to close at 18. You can't leave your city unless it's a small town, then you can.
Yellow is about the same as orange, but you can travel anywhere in the region and museums are open.
White is mostly business as usual, shops open, gym/cinemas open etc...

From monday all regions will move to orange, and some will move from orange to red (https://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/covid-governo-incontra-enti-locali-poi-cdm-il-via-libera-una-nuova-stretta-AD73zgPB). That's not a new national lockdown.

Lots of people in Italy complain that they don't know if they're going to be open or closed next week (which is a fair point) but if you ask me it beats being locked down for months to no end.

EDIT: let me add, if Ireland was a region of italy then it's likely that we would be either orange of yellow at the moment. The math behind is pretty hard and not all the data needed to do that is published in Ireland, but our Rt is below 1.25, our ICU usage is below 25% (if you consider all possible beds like Italy does) and our incidence is below 250 cases per 100000 people.

Dickie10 wrote: »

Cant see them opening anything before june bank holiday people would go mad on the beer and packing shopping centres it will be late july i think before hotels /pubs/nightclubs open

I think hospitality in the form of hotels and gastropubs will be open for July 1.
I'm picking that date from my arse but I can't see it any sooner.

I don't think 'wet' pubs and nightclubs will open until 2022. The wet pubs don't want to open unless they are going to be able to stay open and that's not a certainty until we see how successful the vaccination programme has been and the data as we approach winter.

TonyMaloney wrote: »

It's just that some of us view hospitals and schools as being more important than penney's and haircuts right now. We don't want to jeopardise the most important things to society.

If that's zealotry, then I guess I'm a big ****ing zealot.

That is exactly what I'm talking about, you've exemplified it perfectly in your post with your "some of us" approach and utter dismissal of the need for balance.

It obviously hasn't occurred to you that there are many people in this country without children of school going age, so constantly demanding huge sacrifices of them for something that doesn't directly concern them is a tad unbalanced to say the least. There are also a great many, namely the young, as we are the youngest country, who don't see hospitals as a priority. I really have a problem with whole swathes of the population having their needs summarily dismissed because the Govt and many of their lackeys among the public are obsessed with schools. Or that somehow we are meant to be tolerant because successive Govts squandered hard earned tax payers money and never bothered their arses creating a viable health service. But totalitarianism will be totalitarian.

Sorry, doesn't wash but thanks for so well exemplifying my earlier post about imbalance, disproportion and zero regard for so many other needs.

W123-80's wrote: »

I think hospitality in the form of hotels and gastropubs will be open for July 1.
I'm picking that date from my arse but I can't see it any sooner.

I don't think 'wet' pubs and nightclubs will open until 2022. The wet pubs don't want to open unless they are going to be able to stay open and that's not a certainty until we see how successful the vaccination programme has been and the data as we approach winter.

I'd like to see outdoor drinking/dining open up as soon as it's deemed safe. Perhaps earlier than July.

But I'd keep them outdoor only until a really substantial number of people have been vaccinated. Even if that goes well into the Autumn.

Oh and I think the concept of "wet pubs" is thankfully dead in the water. I believe Varadkar said something about the requirement for a meal with your pint will not be coming back.

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

For a second there I thought you were saying the "wet pubs" themselves wouldn't be coming back :pac:

god no

at some point, don't know when, they'll be back and wetter than ever

TonyMaloney wrote: »

god no

at some point, don't know when, they'll be back and wetter than ever

Some of them will be back

A nice pint in Weatherspoons will be the future of having a social beverage

acequion wrote: »

That is exactly what I'm talking about, you've exemplified it perfectly in your post with your "some of us" approach and utter dismissal of the need for balance.

It obviously hasn't occurred to you that there are many people in this country without children of school going age, so constantly demanding huge sacrifices of them for something that doesn't directly concern them is a tad unbalanced to say the least. There are also a great many, namely the young, as we are the youngest country, who don't see hospitals as a priority. I really have a problem with whole swathes of the population having their needs summarily dismissed because the Govt and many of their lackeys among the public are obsessed with schools. Or that somehow we are meant to be tolerant because successive Govts squandered hard earned tax payers money and never bothered their arses creating a viable health service. But totalitarianism will be totalitarian.

Sorry, doesn't wash but thanks for so well exemplifying my earlier post about imbalance, disproportion and zero regard for so many other needs.

I suppose I understand the frustration of someone who has no children and for instance, owns their own business and is now on the PUP blaming schools being open for their business remaining closed.

I couldn't care less about people whining that they can't have a pint or lift weights at the gym, and schools should stay closed to allow them to do that. Whine away.

I cannot fathom how someone can say that hospitals are not a priority. Unless you're living in the wilderness with a gun, a dog, a bottle of whiskey and you're willing sew up your own injuries with a rusty needle and some deer guts, hospitals are a priority for everyone. Even idiots who think they'll never need one. You're lucky that you are surrounded by people who have a modicum more sense than you.