Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Whatsisname

The UK variant was first sequenced in September, it could have even been spreading before that. It didn't magically turn up in December and I have no idea how in March its all the Irish media and NPHET can talk about.

Russman

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Christmas may have been mentioned by someone on October the 1st.
I don't recall it myself, but perhaps someone did. Send me a link if you have one.

But to suggest saving christmas was the primary goal of the October lockdown is completely nuts. We were on the crest of a second wave that would have shut our hospitals to all but covid and killed thousands.

****ing christmas

Yeah, its the nuance in it. My recollection (which could be wrong) is that Christmas was definitely mentioned, but more as a potential upside in the context of "get this wave crushed and if that happens we should be good for Christmas", not "lockdown now in order to have a good Christmas".

TonyMaloney

Whatsisname wrote: »

The UK variant was first sequenced in September, it could have even been spreading before that. It didn't magically turn up in December and I have no idea how in March its all the Irish media and NPHET can talk about.

It's frequently talked about because it's the reason our arses are indoors.

What would you have them talk about?

gozunda

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

To follow that sentence up with your next paragraph is pretty fecking staggering.

Its not Doctor Jimbob - if you had bothered to read the entire comment in context. But I guess not much new there eh?

The "small minority" I refer to are those here with their heads apparently in the sand- who when presented with reality of what happened at Christmas - appears to want stick their head in the sand and wail 'twas all their fault whaaa" or wtt.

It remains that a small vocal minority don't want to learn anything from having the highest rate of infection in the world post Christmas and just demand that the same ****e be allowed happen again before we've even had a chance to get a critical number vaccinated.
That's the issue.

But no matter ...

Klonker

Russman wrote: »

Just to point out, nobody is for restrictions for the craic. I know thats not what you're saying, but this debate gets too polarised into an "us" and "them" thing, when its anything but that IMO.
Everyone is angry, everyone is p1ssed off and lashing out, no-one enjoys it and we all want to find the best way out of it, its finding that best way is where the disagreements lie.

I understand your point.
It's just a quick way of saying some on here think restrictions are excessive here and some don't think they are and I think most will know what I'm mean by 'for restrictions'.

Some of the people on the other side of the argument do the same. Its made out people against restrictions want everything opened right now including concerts, nightclubs and having a free for all when in reality most just want us more in line with the rest of Europe and the world.

OwenM

TonyMaloney wrote: »

We did attempt to put controls in place to stop it entering. We tried to shut off travel with GB.
Was that zero covid?

It was I suppose an attempt at a zero covid measure, a half assed attempt that wouldn't have worked anyway, if a real attempt had been made then the variant would still be here through lots of other vectors like ro-ro ferries or the NI border or a false negative test or a spanish trawler. I could sit here all day listing ways it would have gotten in.

Variant or no variant last xmas wouldn't look a whole lot different IMO.

gozunda

ypres5 wrote: »

I said you and others blame the public solely go back and read what I wrote rather than your warped interpretation of it. This is turning into the nigeria obesity rubbish all over again

Nope. Wrong. Lol.. I already quoted what you said. Viz

ypres5 wrote:

of course you an others ignore the uk flights the government chartered and instead blame the public solely. if you're going to accuse others of sticking fingers in their ears look in the mirror first

ypres5 wrote:

you brought up tony not me. projecting much? and i never said solely i just said I find it amazing you and others never mention the government flights when you start raving about Christmas.

Yeah rubbish alright. But let's continue this blame game. Its very enjoyable

Whatsisname

TonyMaloney wrote: »

It's frequently talked about because it's the reason our arses are indoors.

What would you have them talk about?

The light at the end of the tunnel and not perpetual misery porn.

FintanMcluskey

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Meanwhile in Europe...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/12/italy-braces-widespread-closures-covid-cases-rise




It all comes back to maintaining control. Relinquish control and you keep drifting in and out of severe shades of restrictions.

It's about finding balance.

We had a good balance in my opinion last summer but let that go. Not too tough measures but enough to keep a lid.

I’ve watched you post this stuff for close to a year now.

You never follow up a week or two later when those other countries reopen again, that’s if they ever followed through with the restrictions in the first place.

You will be forced to admit eventually Ireland is under Europe’s strictest and longest lockdown.

Long term lockdowns don’t work, they are a blunt tool to buy time.

Many posters seem to salivate at the thoughts of lockdown though, I’ll never be comfortable with that

ypres5

for anyone who thinks businesses will bounce back just like that

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/lockdown-ireland-dublin-hospitality-manager-20096997

ypres5

gozunda wrote: »

Nope. Wrong. Lol.. I already quoted what you said. Viz





Yeah rubbish alright. But let's continue this blame game. Its very enjoyable

i suppose you think nigeria and the uk have the same obesity rates so that explains why you're having trouble understanding that I said you and others blame the public solely i never said I blamed anyone solely you're misunderstanding my use of the word and I'm not sure if it's accidental or deliberate

Graham

Klonker wrote: »

I understand your point.
It's just a quick way of saying some on here think restrictions are excessive here and some don't think they are and I think most will know what I'm mean by 'for restrictions'.

Some of the people on the other side of the argument do the same. Its made out people against restrictions want everything opened right now including concerts, nightclubs and having a free for all when in reality most just want us more in line with the rest of Europe and the world.

Ultimately we all want to see the same thing, the country reopened with the minimum amount of damage.

TonyMaloney

OwenM wrote: »

It was I suppose an attempt at a zero covid measure, a half assed attempt that wouldn't have worked anyway, if a real attempt had been made then the variant would still be here through lots of other vectors like ro-ro ferries or the NI border or a false negative test or a spanish trawler. I could sit here all day listing ways it would have gotten in.

Variant or no variant last xmas wouldn't look a whole lot different IMO.

I agree that it was close to impossible to keep it out and that it was likely already here. In fact we know from sequencing that it was already in the country.

However, we not only had a lot of new cases of B117 entering the country over December, we gave it an incredible environment for it to spread with our lax, barely adhered to restrictions.

I also agree that we had a disaster on our hands without the aid of a new variant. We can see now that B117 certainly contributed to the explosion in cases, but we were still going to be in a terrible situation regardless.

It's just a lot worse and longer lasting because of B117

Klonker

Graham wrote: »

Ultimately we all want to see the same thing, the country reopened with the minimum amount of damage.

We do, we just have differing views on how to do that. Also some might have differing views in what minimum amount of damage looks like.

TonyMaloney

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I’ve watched you post this stuff for close to a year now.

You never follow up a week or two later when those other countries reopen again, that’s if they ever followed through with the restrictions in the first place.

You will be forced to admit eventually Ireland is under Europe’s strictest and longest lockdown.

Long term lockdowns don’t work, they are a blunt tool to buy time.

Many posters seem to salivate at the thoughts of lockdown though, I’ll never be comfortable with that

Portugal, Slovakia, Czech Rep, UK.

All those countries are under significantly tougher restrictions than us right now. You can see it in the mobility data.

Edit: an very soon you can add Italy to that list.

retro:electro

RobitTV wrote: »

Irish Independent: ‘Good summer’ on the way – if we can stick with restrictions for another two to three months

People were last night promised a “good summer” – but warned they have to “pull back from the brink” and stick with Covid-19 restrictions for the next two to three months.

Cases of the virus have risen in recent days, sparking fresh alarm among public health officials.

Professor Philip Nolan told last night’s Covid-19 briefing that the increase could be the “beginning of something”.

If people “stick with it” over the next two to three months, there is the promise of a “good summer” and brighter days ahead, barring the unexpected.

Irish Independent

Replace “good summer” with “meaningful Christmas”.. we’ve heard this shlt before.
Anyone still listening to this crap needs their heads checked. I’ll be having a good summer regardless.

Klonker

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Portugal, Slovakia, Czech Rep, UK.

All those countries are under significantly tougher restrictions than us right now. You can see it in the mobility data.

Nope, mobility data does not show level of restrictions. Just because some people are ignoring restrictions it doesn't mean they're not there. There are either restrictions that the government expect us to comply with or there are not restrictions. Non compliance does not equal no restrictions.

TonyMaloney

retro:electro wrote: »

Replace “good summer” with “meaningful Christmas”.. we’ve heard this shlt before.
Anyone still listening to this crap needs their heads checked

I'm getting some mixed signals here.

I thought you lads wanted nphet to focus more on the positive?

Deusexmachina

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for another mass?

Captain Smug with the jaded Fr.Ted jokes.

I bet my (under pressure) mortgage that you are a public servant with a guaranteed salary and pension.

FintanMcluskey

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Portugal, Slovakia, Czech Rep, UK.

All those countries are under significantly tougher restrictions than us right now. You can see it in the mobility data.

Edit: an very soon you can add Italy to that list.

Construction is closed?

All hospitality is closed?

Citizens can’t travel 5km form their homes?

Graham

retro:electro wrote: »

Anyone still listening to this crap needs their heads checked. I’ll be having a good summer regardless.

Replace summer with christmas and you'll see how we got here.

JDD

ypres5 wrote: »

for anyone who thinks businesses will bounce back just like that

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/lockdown-ireland-dublin-hospitality-manager-20096997

I do feel sorry for this lad, but he's in the perfect storm of issues. He's not a restaurant, so can't do deliveroo. He can't really open for takeaway, because he's right in the centre of town and there's no footfall. He's in the position of many coffee shops in the centre of town, who catered to office workers and shoppers.

To be honest, there are far too many coffee shops in town, and the permanent move towards partially WFH means many of these coffee shops are going to take a large hit. In fact, I would say that many office workers, who might have a habit of going to their favourite coffee shop in the morning, might have that habit broken now any probably won't bother for the two days they are in town each week. A lot of these coffee shops are going to close and that's a permanent issue. This guy might be insulated enough once retail fully opens again. He won't find it hard to find staff - his previous staff may be gone, but he'll find replacements.

That said, a lot more cafes are going to open in suburban centres. That should balance out some (but not all) of the job losses from town.

titan18

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Portugal, Slovakia, Czech Rep, UK.

All those countries are under significantly tougher restrictions than us right now. You can see it in the mobility data.

Edit: an very soon you can add Italy to that list.

As of next Monday, Portugal won't be under tougher restrictions than us. They announced easing of theirs yesterday.

Kindergartens, pre-schools and primary schools will reopen on Monday, as well as hair salons, libraries and bookshops, Costa said, adding that cafes' terraces, museums, and small stores will open doors on April 5.

High school and university students will be able to return to school on April 19, when cinemas, theatres and shopping malls will also reopen. Outdoor events will be allowed under capacity rules.

Restaurants can reopen on April 19 too but must close earlier. From May 3, restaurants can reopen with no time restrictions and large indoor and outdoor events can be held following capacity rules yet to be defined, Costa said, warning he will not be afraid to take a step back if the situation worsens again.

Doctor Jimbob

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

We're probably the only country in the world that have deemed schools safer than construction. We're more worried about the UK variant than the UK are. But NPHET must not be questioned. Remember christmas?

We have deemed schools more important than construction, not safer

gozunda

Klonker wrote: »

Well you did ask me did reopening at Christmas contribute to the surge in cases and I asked you did the lockdown in October contribute to it yet I'm paying the blame game and you are not

I do want to learn from Christmas and a part of that learning is to look into all reasons why the Christmas surge occurred, I don't realise that was a blame game. I also don't want Christmas to occur again but I also think our planned relaxation is too slow considering our vaccination roll out has begun. I don't want everything opened now but I also don't want 6 weeks between review at beginning of April and the next review in late May being hinted at. I also don't like the fact they decisions will be based on numbers and then give a rough guide to what those restrictions will be when they don't even know the numbers will be at the next review in a few weeks nevermind the review in May in 10 weeks

Any don't give me that nonsense taking offence to 'people like you'. It's a simple way of saying there's a discussion on here between people who think restrictions are excessive and people who think they aren't and people on both sides have differences in terms of how extreme their views are.

Well you see Klonker. I didn't ask you "did reopening at Christmas contribute to the surge in cases" at all. So its you who is: indeed

And no the comment is not directed at 'you' with regard to any 'blame' personally btw. No idea where you got that idea from btw.

It is odd whenever anyone points out we're still mopping up the ****efest that led to the highest rate of infection some people ignore that and engage in an apparent daft game of 'its someone else's fault whaaaa.' Or wtte. As exactly what did happen in this thread.

The problem with the covid pandemic is that - it is dynamic and really doesn't fit with nailing promises to a mast and flogging the captain when those promises get flitted by the winds of change

And no - no one I know is happy with restrictions. That said even the UK is playing a cautious game with its rollback of restrictions with lots of opt out clauses if and where things go pear-shaped. And likle the UK our current restrictions are broadly in line with where we are at at this point in time - that is likley to change as vaccinations numbers ramp up. Demanding things should open up before that happens ain't going to help anything.

Btw I've seen the use of the phrase "people like you" and it is always used as a Pejorative term as it was imho

cjyid

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Portugal, Slovakia, Czech Rep, UK.

All those countries are under significantly tougher restrictions than us right now. You can see it in the mobility data.

Edit: an very soon you can add Italy to that list.

Very soon you can remove Portugal from that list.

retro:electro

Graham wrote: »

Replace summer with christmas and you'll see how we got here.

Better lockdown forever more so just in case Graham. Cos ya know “Christmas” and all that.

TonyMaloney

Klonker wrote: »

Nope, mobility data does not show level of restrictions. Just because some people are ignoring restrictions it doesn't mean they're not there. There are either restrictions that the government expect us to comply with or there are not restrictions. Non compliance does not equal no restrictions.

Mobility data is a reflection of the restrictions in place and how well they're being adhered to.
At the moment Portugal, Slovakia, Czech Rep, the UK and Italy are all significantly less mobile than us.

Slovakia and the Czech republic are currently going through an abbsolute disaster, and have been seeking help from other EU nations like Germany.
They are locked the **** down.

Portugal had an even worse Chritmas period than us. They had to shut parks and beaches to get a handle on things.
They've done that though, and fair play to them, they now have a lower incidence level than us.

The UK are in great shape and will start relaxing some things soon. But in recent months their restrictions have been more severe than ours.

Italy, as is all over the news, is about to enter a brand new national lockdown. The poor bastards.

All that to say - the idea that we're currently under the harshest restrictions in Europe is just plain old wrong. The longest? Perhaps. If you ignore December or insist it was merely a break.

acequion

What alarms me is the 1] The complete lack of proportion and 2] the complete lack of respect for the people.

On 1. It's outlandish that non essential retail and services like hairdressers /barbers are not opining in early April. Not everyone is comfortable with online shopping so click and collect is not good enough. People need stuff and it's so frustrating, not to mention ridiculous, to keep places like Penney's closed and have so much practical merchandise cordoned off in places like Dunnes. Also, people need simple things like haircuts for their hygiene and well being and it's just outlandish to keep these places closed much longer. That's only two examples of the lack of balance and proportion, there's a plethora of others. Keeping counties of very low incidence on exactly the same level as others is another and there are many more. And don't get me started on the travel restrictions, both national and international! Everything is extreme and disproportionate.

On 2. It's probably because we're a nation of sheep and lap dogs that they're treating us like dirt. No fear of us whatsoever as they announce their diktats and push their propaganda. So different to the tentative announcements at the start as they tested the waters but they needn't have worried. You can impose anything on the Irish! That is absolutely shocking in a modern democracy and people really need to wake up to that fact. And it's not only the powers that be. You need only read posts here and on general social media to see how little respect many have for others. Their needs are merely shrugged off and everyone is expected to just suck it up. Too bad that many are at breaking point, Covid is the only show in town.

I really do hope that people will soon wake up and push back. Business groups need to start pushing hard, this crap has to be challenged. Because without people reclaiming their fundamental rights god only knows how much worse this straightjacket gets before it gets any better. But knowing the form of the Irish and the fact that many actually agree with all this zealotry, I'm hugely worried.

timmyntc

Graham wrote: »

Replace summer with christmas and you'll see how we got here.

You're right - I don't think we should ever open. After all, we opened at christmas and had a big spike and correlation definitely equals causation, so any time we open in the future regardless of circumstances, we will end up with a christmas 2020 spike.

We should lockdown forever its the only way to avoid the dreaded christmas 2020 spike again