Wifi mesh systems

Tabby McTat · 24-02-2021 2:58pm

RangeR wrote: »

Sorry, I was just making an analogy with a piece of equipment that is designed and meant to be "out on the internet".

A public webserver would be the likes of boards.ie or facebook.com. Even they aren't "out on the internet" without security but always behind a firewall.

Trust your firewall/router... to a point. Don't trust the internet, ever.

Put your AV behind your router not behind the bridged modem.

Cool will do that. Never ceases to amaze what you can learn on Boards!!

WLad · 24-02-2021 4:09pm

So whats the current boards recommendation for a mesh system? Don't need anything hugely powerful but looking at the TP m5 deco, do they get this threads approval? I'll be connecting at least 2 of them through ethernet backhaul if that makes a difference.

Sexual Chocolate · 24-02-2021 4:29pm

Picked up a Deco E4 today with 2 units. Will I still be able to connect a PS4 or phones to the Virgin Media Hub or do I have to assign everything to the Decos.

24-02-2021 4:55pm

Sexual Chocolate wrote: »

Picked up a Deco E4 today with 2 units. Will I still be able to connect a PS4 or phones to the Virgin Media Hub or do I have to assign everything to the Decos.

You should disable wireless on the Virgin hub as it can interfere

RangeR · 24-02-2021 5:03pm

Sexual Chocolate wrote: »

Picked up a Deco E4 today with 2 units. Will I still be able to connect a PS4 or phones to the Virgin Media Hub or do I have to assign everything to the Decos.

If the VM modem is bridged then EVERYTHING should be connected to the DECO. Wired or WIFI.

RangeR · 24-02-2021 5:04pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You should disable wireless on the Virgin hub as it can interfere

And tape over the LAN ports.

irelandspurs · 10-03-2021 8:47am

3 deco m4 arrived yesterday and I'll have a go at setting up over the next few days. I currently have the eir f2000 and plugged into that I have the hive hub.
Do I remove the f2000 altogether and just use the deco's or do I keep the f2000 and plug the first m4 into that and the other 2 around the house. I only want them to improve wifi deadspots around the house.
Thanks for any advice given.

babelfish1990 · 10-03-2021 10:09am

irelandspurs wrote: »

3 deco m4 arrived yesterday and I'll have a go at setting up over the next few days. I currently have the eir f2000 and plugged into that I have the hive hub.
Do I remove the f2000 altogether and just use the deco's or do I keep the f2000 and plug the first m4 into that and the other 2 around the house. I only want them to improve wifi deadspots around the house.
Thanks for any advice given.

Leave the F2000 in place. Login to the router and disable 2.4GHz & 5GHz WiFi in it. Plug first Deco into a LAN port on F2000. Use other Decos to provide seamless WiFi across your home. You can continue to use Spare ports on F2000 for wired Ethernet devices.

WLad · 10-03-2021 10:12am

babelfish1990 wrote: »

Leave the F2000 in place. Login to the router and disable 2.4GHz & 5GHz WiFi in it. Plug first Deco into a LAN port on F2000. Use other Decos to provide seamless WiFi across your home. You can continue to use Spare ports on F2000 for wired Ethernet devices.

Also put the decos in AP mode or you'll have double NAT.

irelandspurs · 10-03-2021 12:12pm

Thank you

54and56 · 11-03-2021 3:56pm

Hi all,

I've a 200mb SME home office package with Virgin Media and a TaoTronics 3 node Mesh System all of which is working fine.

With 4 people sometimes on separate Teams/Zoom calls and up to 25 other devices (phones, tablets, IoT devices) etc all humming along in the background the 20mb upload limit is becoming a bottleneck so I want to upgrade to the 300mb package which will increase the upload speed by 50% to a max 30mb and see if that helps improve things when there is maximum use going on.

VM replaced the 12 year old Cisco router (which they said can't handle more than 200mb D/L) with a new Hitron router yesterday and said all settings including fixed IP address on the modem and bridged mode would be ported over once the new Hitron was set up.

I saw two new WiFi networks being offered this morning so logged into the new modem and saw that the Wireless option for both 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz were turned on so I've now toggled them off but now I'm wondering what else do I need to do.

I've looked for an option which toggles "Bridge" or "Router" mode but can't find it in any of the menu's and I also can't recall what other settings I should have on (or off) to ensure the Hitron Modem plays as nice as possible with the Mesh router.

I can see in LAN settings that the correct fixed IP address is assigned and that the only directly connected device to the modem is the fixed IP address of the TT Mesh Router which looks correct.

Can anyone tell me how to set or confirm the Hitron modem is in bridge rather than router mode and should I toggle any other settings away from their default e.g. should DHCP Status be enabled or disabled, UPNP IGD enabled or disabled, Port forwarding and/or port forwarding enabled or disabled?

This is what I get when I run a trace route

WLad · 11-03-2021 4:07pm

It really depends on what you had before? Did you have the old router in bridge mode? If so, are the Taotronics acting as your router?

I'm not familiar with any of those devices but here are some general rules:

Only 1 DHCP per network unless you really know what you are doing. That means if its turned on on the router then the mesh system shouldn't be giving out addresses.

Preferably only 1 router per network, again, unless you know what you are doing. If you put the new router in bridge mode then nothing should be connected directly to it and you need to make sure one of the nodes in the mesh is in router mode. This is super important, especially since its a business. If its in router mode connect whatever you want to it.

If you had fixed addresses on your previous router then I'm guessing it wasn't in bridge mode anyway so you have nothing to change there. The only thing left to check is that your mesh network isn't also in router mode.

RangeR · 11-03-2021 4:23pm

54and56 wrote: »

VM replaced the 12 year old Cisco router (which they said can't handle more than 200mb D/L) with a new Hitron router yesterday and said all settings including fixed IP address on the modem and bridged mode would be ported over once the new Hitron was set up.
I've looked for an option which toggles "Bridge" or "Router" mode but can't find it in any of the menu's and I also can't recall what other settings I should have on (or off) to ensure the Hitron Modem plays as nice as possible with the Mesh router.

Can anyone tell me how to set or confirm the Hitron modem is in bridge rather than router mode and should I toggle any other settings away from their default e.g. should DHCP Status be enabled or disabled, UPNP IGD enabled or disabled, Port forwarding and/or port forwarding enabled or disabled?

This is what I get when I run a trace route

I have multiple hitrons in various sites all on business accounts, as I said before. ring VM business support. They will bridge them there and then, then reboot. Not sure if you can do this yourself.

54and56 · 11-03-2021 4:47pm

RangeR wrote: »

I have multiple hitrons in various sites all on business accounts, as I said before. ring VM business support. They will bridge them there and then, then reboot. Not sure if you can do this yourself.

Thanks RangeR, VM Business Support did confirm to me that the new Modem is indeed in bridge mode but they also confirmed they had disabled WiFi mode hence I wanted to check/validate for myself!!

54and56 · 11-03-2021 4:59pm

Thanks WLad.

WLad wrote: »

It really depends on what you had before? Did you have the old router in bridge mode? If so, are the Taotronics acting as your router?

Yes and yes.

WLad wrote: »

Only 1 DHCP per network unless you really know what you are doing. That means if its turned on on the router then the mesh system shouldn't be giving out addresses.

Yes, DHCP is turned on on the VM Hitron Modem and I don't see an option to toggle it on or off in the TT Mesh System admin app so hopefully it's just turned on in the VM Modem.

WLad wrote: »

Preferably only 1 router per network, again, unless you know what you are doing. If you put the new router in bridge mode then nothing should be connected directly to it and you need to make sure one of the nodes in the mesh is in router mode. This is super important, especially since its a business. If its in router mode connect whatever you want to it.

VM have confirmed the new Hitron modem is in bridge mode and the Trace Route doesn't appear to indicate double NAT'ing so I think all is good. The only thing connected directly via Ethernet to the Hitron Modem is the TT Mesh Router.

WLad wrote: »

If you had fixed addresses on your previous router then I'm guessing it wasn't in bridge mode anyway so you have nothing to change there. The only thing left to check is that your mesh network isn't also in router mode.

The Hitron modem is in bridge mode and does have a fixed IP address allocated to it. The TT Mesh Router is connected to the Hitron via Ethernet and also has a (different) fixed IP address allocated to it. That all sound correct function wise?

WLad · 11-03-2021 5:08pm

Ah, I misunderstood. You were talking about the devices themselves having static IP addresses. I thought you meant devices on your network. Yeah that sounds right.

The only issue is it doesn't sound like its in bridge mode at all. Mainly because a bridge would not give out IP addresses which is what DHCP is doing. If that's on then you potentially could have an issue where you have two DHCP servers on your network (this one and the TT one) and your devices will get confused. You'll know if that happens because a device will look connected but won't have internet access.

You really really don't want two DHCP servers. Maybe the tt is just using the VM router for dhcp though.

If you are positive that the TT router is also giving out addresses (is running DHCP) then you can disable that on the VM router and manually turn off the wifi and its basically in bridge mode at that point.

degsie · 11-03-2021 5:16pm

I think VM usually have a /30 subnet on business routers with fixed ip. You have only two usable wan IPs, one of which one is assigned to the Hitron. Did they explain this?

54and56 · 11-03-2021 7:57pm

WLad wrote: »

The only issue is it doesn't sound like its in bridge mode at all. Mainly because a bridge would not give out IP addresses which is what DHCP is doing. If that's on then you potentially could have an issue where you have two DHCP servers on your network (this one and the TT one) and your devices will get confused. You'll know if that happens because a device will look connected but won't have internet access.

You really really don't want two DHCP servers. Maybe the tt is just using the VM router for dhcp though.

If you are positive that the TT router is also giving out addresses (is running DHCP) then you can disable that on the VM router and manually turn off the wifi and its basically in bridge mode at that point.

Thanks again WLad, I'm very slowly getting to grips with this and filling in the many many blanks.

Funny thing is DHCP is definitely disabled on the VM Hitron Modem (and I've manually disabled the two VM WiFi networks) but I can't see an option anywhere in the TT Mesh Router Admin app to toggle DHCP on or off so perhaps the TT Router just handles DHCP by default? If the TT router wasn't handling DHCP and DHCP is disabled on the VM Modem I assume I'd be experiencing some problems?

54and56 · 11-03-2021 8:02pm

degsie wrote: »

I think VM usually have a /30 subnet on business routers with fixed ip. You have only two usable wan IPs, one of which one is assigned to the Hitron. Did they explain this?

Hi Degsie, no that was never explained to me and to be honest I've no idea what "/30 subnet" means or how only having one useable wan IP (as the other is assigned to the Hitron) could be impacting things. I've a small home office with 4 users on PC's laptops etc and have had this set up for 10 years or so. I want to upgrade from the 200mb package to the 300mb which will improve upload capacity by 50% from 20mb to 30mb so VM swapped out the old Cisco modem which maxed out at 200mb for a new Hitron modem which can handle >200mb.

WLad · 11-03-2021 9:27pm

54and56 wrote: »

Thanks again WLad, I'm very slowly getting to grips with this and filling in the many many blanks.

Funny thing is DHCP is definitely disabled on the VM Hitron Modem (and I've manually disabled the two VM WiFi networks) but I can't see an option anywhere in the TT Mesh Router Admin app to toggle DHCP on or off so perhaps the TT Router just handles DHCP by default? If the TT router wasn't handling DHCP and DHCP is disabled on the VM Modem I assume I'd be experiencing some problems?

Ah OK, so from your original question I assumed it was on and you wondered whether you should turn it off.

In that case then yes the TT must be handling dhcp or else you would have no Internet connectivity at all. Some mesh devices have a router mode and an AP mode and when they are in router mode they automatically handle DHCP and other router functions without it being configurable.

I suspect that the vm modem they sent you either doesn't support true bridge mode or they won't turn it on so what they've done is disabled dhcp and told you they turned off the WiFi. Whether they've done that or not is another thing. But either way it sounds like you are back to your old setup.

The only issue you might hit when it's in a simulated bridge mode is double NAT. If your business uses a VPN for anything or has specific port forwarding requirements then you might be in trouble. If you do have these requirements then a workaround is to plug the devices that need a VPN or port forwarding into VM router and not the TT.

keano25 · 11-03-2021 11:21pm

I've have a bungalow with cat 6 wired to each room, the WiFi system is not able to reach each end of the house.

I have a ethernet cable going from the router to a switch in the attic driving the ethernet cables.

Would there be any benefit to getting a mesh system for speed or just plug an extender into one of the ethernet cables in the black spots?

Thanks

11-03-2021 11:25pm

keano25 wrote: »

I've have a bungalow with cat 6 wired to each room, the WiFi system is not able to reach each end of the house.

I have a ethernet cable going from the router to a switch in the attic driving the ethernet cables.

Would there be any benefit to getting a mesh system for speed or just plug an extender into one of the ethernet cables in the black spots?

Thanks

Neither, get Ubiquiti Unifi access points

babelfish1990 · 12-03-2021 12:02am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Neither, get Ubiquiti Unifi access points

I would second the recommendation for Ubiquiti Unifi access points. You can add as many as you need to cover your house seamlessly. 2 or 3 will cover most homes.

Switch off the WiFi in your ISP router. If your Ethernet switch has POE, you can use this to power each of the APs

keano25 · 12-03-2021 1:38am

Thanks lads. Unfortunately my switch does not have Poe I think.. it's a TP-Link TL-SG1024D.

What's the advantage of using Ubiquiti Unifi over a Deco M5 system?

babelfish1990 · 12-03-2021 6:15am

keano25 wrote: »

Thanks lads. Unfortunately my switch does not have Poe I think.. it's a TP-Link TL-SG1024D.

What's the advantage of using Ubiquiti Unifi over a Deco M5 system?

The main advantage is POE - you can install your APs on wall or ceiling without trailing power leads. You can probably still do POE, using the individual power injectors that come with the APs. You also have the possibility of installing a small UPS at your comms hub, which will keep your entire network alive in the event of a power cut.

Deco M5 will also work well in Access Point mode - you can use your wiring for backhaul instead of wasting WiFi bandwidth between APs.

Either way you should get seamless coverage. You are on the pigs back since you have wiring.

irelandspurs · 12-03-2021 8:05am

babelfish1990 wrote: »

Leave the F2000 in place. Login to the router and disable 2.4GHz & 5GHz WiFi in it. Plug first Deco into a LAN port on F2000. Use other Decos to provide seamless WiFi across your home. You can continue to use Spare ports on F2000 for wired Ethernet devices.

Thanks, installed them last night and has made a massive difference. Was only getting around an up and down 20mbps over wifi in the best location. Now I'm getting a steady 80mbps over the whole house.
I didn't put the decos in AP mode just turned the wifi off on the F2000 and all seems good. I even had the youngest come in at 11 last night asking what's wrong with the wifi as I turned her stuff off

12-03-2021 8:16am

irelandspurs wrote: »

Thanks, installed them last night and has made a massive difference. Was only getting around an up and down 20mbps over wifi in the best location. Now I'm getting a steady 80mbps over the whole house.
I didn't put the decos in AP mode just turned the wifi off on the F2000 and all seems good. I even had the youngest come in at 11 last night asking what's wrong with the wifi as I turned her stuff off

This is the dreaded double NAT. You now have 2 routers and 2 firewalls. It can cause issues especially if you use things like VPN, console games, Skype, Zoom etc that use UPNP (universal plug and play) open their ports as the ports will be blocked on the other router. It's not an ideal setup

irelandspurs · 12-03-2021 8:19am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is the dreaded double NAT. You now have 2 routers and 2 firewalls. It can cause issues especially if you use things like VPN, console games, zoom that use UPNP (universal plug and play) open their ports as the ports will be blocked on the other router. It's not an ideal setup

Just reading about it now so will change it. I tried out the kids Xbox last night and it said NAT open but I don't understand how these things work never mind NAT so I'll take others advice, just a shame to lose the parental control.

irelandspurs · 12-03-2021 8:26am

Just put into AP mode but am only getting 40mbps now but was getting 80mbps across the house in router mode.

12-03-2021 8:32am

irelandspurs wrote: »

Just put into AP mode but am only getting 40mbps now but was getting 80mbps across the house in router mode.

Have you disconnected and reconnected all your devices, they will need to get a new DHCP lease from the f2000 as the TP Link was giving them the lease before this in router mode.

Wifi mesh systems

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