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Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

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Comments

  • #3782
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,595 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    lee_baby_simms wrote: »
    How is it different? Glynn linked these stillbirths to an extremely rare complication without any confirmation whatsoever.

    Do you not think that’s OTT?

    He said it was being investigated as he was asked the question.

    He made reassuring comments that it was very rare at most and shouldn't be a problem. He then referred anyone with concerns to their specialist.


  • #3783
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,561 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    lee_baby_simms wrote: »
    How is it different? Glynn linked these stillbirths to an extremely rare complication without any confirmation whatsoever.

    Do you not think that’s OTT?

    He said exactly the same thing that the Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists said.

    They're best placed here to decide what's OTT or not.


  • #3784
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Depressing watching Great American Railroad Journey on rte2. Reminds me of holidays I took in America. I just want holidays back.


  • #3785
    lee_baby_simms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭lee_baby_simms


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    He said it was being investigated as he was asked the question.

    He made reassuring comments that it was very rare at most and shouldn't be a problem. He then referred anyone with concerns to their specialist.

    What you’re saying is fine, procedurally, but it’s completely unethical in the context of how the media work and how people only read headlines. The public never see the retractions.

    That’s my simple point in all of this. The info could have easily been withheld for the few days that it would take to actually confirm.

    But it wasn’t. I feel that this was discussed and put out there intentionally. This is based on NPHETS previous form.


  • #3786
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,312 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    lee_baby_simms wrote: »
    How is it different? Glynn linked these stillbirths to an extremely rare complication without any confirmation whatsoever.

    Do you not think that’s OTT?

    He was asked a direct question about whether he was aware about this being included in a preliminary coroner's report.

    He said he was aware, because to say different would have been a lie, and then stressed how these reports should be treated with caution because they were only preliminary - he literally said these reports should be treated with caution - explained what the condition was, explained how utterly rare it is and stressed how positive the experience of maternity care and outcomes have been for the vast majority of patients etc.

    He went out of his way to explain the context and to outline the true, negligible, level of risk posed by the issue. I was able to understand that very clearly from the way he spoke, because he spoke with absolute clarity. You seem to be inferring that pregnant women, as a result of their condition, can not follow a reasoned argument and draw their own logical conclusions.

    It's entirely ridiculous to conflate one thing with the other as you have done.


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  • #3787
    agoodpunt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 541 ✭✭✭agoodpunt


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    539 cases today

    738 cases this day last week

    Very good progress this week

    fingers crossed we can keep this going
    Doesnt fkcu-ing matter lockdown is the only game in town i dont watch rte anymore dont belive stats from NPET stand these cukfs down construcion hairdresser, and non essential shopping open now zero live as you always done dont make us do same


  • #3788
    lee_baby_simms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭lee_baby_simms


    Arghus wrote: »
    He was asked a direct question about whether he was aware about this being included in a preliminary coroner's report.

    He said he was aware, because to say different would have been a lie, and then stressed how these reports should be treated with caution because they were only preliminary - he literally said these reports should be treated with caution - explained what the condition was, explained how utterly rare it is and stressed how positive the experience of maternity care and outcomes have been for the vast majority of patients etc.

    He went out of his way to explain the context and to outline the true, negligible, level of risk posed by the issue. I was able to understand that very clearly from the way he spoke, because he spoke with absolute clarity. You seem to be inferring that pregnant women, as a result of their condition, can not follow a reasoned argument and draw their own logical conclusions.

    It's entirely ridiculous to conflate one thing with the other as you have done.

    Yeah look we’re going to have to agree to disagree. I think this could have been handled entirely differently.


  • #3789
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    lee_baby_simms wrote: »
    Tony Holohan has publicly stated how he is “concerned about fear levels in the community.”

    The "worry" chart will be produced again if the plebs start behaving like normal human beings, heaven forfend. I'm concerned about imbalance in salaries between those at the top making decisions, and those on the receiving end of those decisions. We're all this in this together, to paraphrase another poster (credit where it's due) "some have yachts, others are paddling kayaks and the rest are drowning".


  • #3790
    Natterjack from Kerry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 622 ✭✭✭Natterjack from Kerry


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm concerned about imbalance in salaries between those at the top making decisions, and those on the receiving end of those decisions.

    The salaries imbalance would be consistent with the fact that those at the top are those most capable of making decisions and in the best interest of those at the receiving end of those decisions who are less competent to make them.


  • #3791
    themacattack.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭themacattack.


    Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »
    The salaries imbalance would be consistent with the fact that those at the top are those most capable of making decisions and in the best interest of those at the receiving end of those decisions who are less competent to make them.

    wow...know your place people...big wages for big brains...little wages for little pea-brains...understood sir


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  • #3792
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,312 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    lee_baby_simms wrote: »
    Yeah look we’re going to have to agree to disagree. I think this could have been handled entirely differently.

    I'm quite happy to drop it but the final thing I'll say is - anyone who took on board what Ronan Glynn actually said would be of no doubt that the issue was (A) not confirmed and (B) vanishingly rare.

    The media could have absolutely reported on this in a completely different manner - RTE, in particular, were quite irresponsible with how they led with that figure of "4 still birthes" - but I can't hold Ronan Glynn liable for that - considering he absolutely preached caution and downplayed jumping to conclusions about these reports.

    Critique NPHET and Glynn all you want, but I don't this charge is fair or warranted in this context.


  • #3793
    lee_baby_simms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭lee_baby_simms


    Arghus wrote: »
    I'm quite happy to drop it but the final thing I'll say is - anyone who took on board what Ronan Glynn actually said would be of no doubt that the issue was (A) not confirmed and (B) vanishingly rare.

    The media could have absolutely reported on this in a completely different manner - RTE, in particular, were quite irresponsible with how they led with that figure of "4 stillbirthes" - but I can't hold Ronan Glynn liable for that - considering he absolutely preached caution and downplayed jumping to conclusions about these reports.

    Critique NPHET and Glynn all you want, but I don't this charge is fair or warranted in this context.

    Sure, what you’re saying sounds reasonable and is probably in line with procedure but my point is that NPHET aren’t wet behind the ears, they knew exactly how this would play out with media.

    I think they could have assessed the potential impact of this information and withheld until they could confirm.

    Anyway I’ve no interest in getting into a circular argument as I’m sure you are, I’m opening a bottle of wine.


  • #3794
    Leftwaffe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭Leftwaffe


    Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »
    The salaries imbalance would be consistent with the fact that those at the top are those most capable of making decisions and in the best interest of those at the receiving end of those decisions who are less competent to make them.

    Sickening statement to me.


  • #3795
    Natterjack from Kerry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 622 ✭✭✭Natterjack from Kerry


    Leftwaffe wrote: »
    Sickening statement to me.

    What, you think you could put a high level team of specialists together to manage a public health emergency pandemic for minimum wage, and their analysis and advice would be as good as the current NPHET ?


  • #3796
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,014 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    News tonight.. my girlfriends sister n law has been diagnosed for the second time with Covid, she is a mother two girls, 2 and 8....

    My girlfriend lost her Dad when she was 9 in a car crash and now she is worried about her brother, and nieces... she asked Elaine on the phone where she thought she contracted it... “ ohhh could have been anywhere, out and about and erm we had people over for dinner “... at that point my girlfriend just hung up the phone on her, which isn’t at all like her she’d be the kind to try work things out..

    But she’s sick of trying to manage the people she loves...

    Her mother has been shîte from the get go although has calmed down a bit... now this...


  • #3797
    Natterjack from Kerry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 622 ✭✭✭Natterjack from Kerry


    themacattack. wrote: »
    wow...know your place people...big wages for big brains...little wages for little pea-brains...understood sir

    Well there is no need to be quite that crude about it, but still, broadly, yes.


  • #3798
    TheDoctor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,980 ✭✭✭TheDoctor


    Hospital numbers at 8pm

    Total 416 (up from 401 last night)
    ICU 102 (up from 99 last night).

    Last Saturday
    Total 551
    ICU 132


  • #3799
    Leftwaffe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭Leftwaffe


    Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »
    What, you think you could put a high level team of specialists together to manage a public health emergency pandemic for minimum wage, and their analysis and advice would be as good as the current NPHET ?

    Total dismissal when it comes to the intelligence of the ordinary people whilst also displaying total ignorance to the utter incompetence of those who are making the decisions.


  • #3800
    political analyst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,054 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Strumms wrote: »
    News tonight.. my girlfriends sister n law has been diagnosed for the second time with Covid, she is a mother two girls, 2 and 8....

    My girlfriend lost her Dad when she was 9 in a car crash and now she is worried about her brother, and nieces... she asked Elaine on the phone where she thought she contracted it... “ ohhh could have been anywhere, out and about and erm we had people over for dinner “... at that point my girlfriend just hung up the phone on her, which isn’t at all like her she’d be the kind to try work things out..

    But she’s sick of trying to manage the people she loves...

    Her mother has been shîte from the get go although has calmed down a bit... now this...

    Do her brother and nieces have underlying health problems?

    Her brother's wife can't be the only person to blame for having people over in the house for dinner - which probably wouldn't have happened if the brother didn't want it.


  • #3801
    mollser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭mollser


    Arghus wrote: »
    I'm quite happy to drop it but the final thing I'll say is - anyone who took on board what Ronan Glynn actually said would be of no doubt that the issue was (A) not confirmed and (B) vanishingly rare.

    The media could have absolutely reported on this in a completely different manner - RTE, in particular, were quite irresponsible with how they led with that figure of "4 stillbirthes" - but I can't hold Ronan Glynn liable for that - considering he absolutely preached caution and downplayed jumping to conclusions about these reports.

    Critique NPHET and Glynn all you want, but I don't this charge is fair or warranted in this context.

    Why did they include them in the death numbers and age range 0 to 91 then? Given they're not confirmed that's the height of irresponsibility and casts doubt on their death stats, they knew what they were doing 100%.


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  • #3802
    User1998
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,385 ✭✭✭User1998


    Would it not be reasonable to expect cases to plateau around next week? Didn’t cases begin to rise again last time despite level 5 lockdown, wasn’t it 400 or so cases and it just wouldn’t go down any further? Hard to see us getting below that level again considering schools are open/opening, loads of construction open, population sick of restrictions, still no mandatory quarantine, work places telling workers to come back to the office etc?


  • #3803
    Curious_Case
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »
    The salaries imbalance would be consistent with the fact that those at the top are those most capable of making decisions and in the best interest of those at the receiving end of those decisions who are less competent to make them.

    Completely agree, I've always had great respect for a decent suit, a nice smell, well groomed appearance and a good address.

    I mean, it's not like they're superficial social climbers or anything.

    Uniforms too, I wish I was worthy of one.


  • #3804
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    Strumms wrote: »
    News tonight.. my girlfriends sister n law has been diagnosed for the second time with Covid, she is a mother two girls, 2 and 8....


    If you don't work in a hospital or other medical settings, that is so, so rare

    So I'm guessing she's been very flagrant with the rules since the get go


  • #3805
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,014 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    political analyst wrote: »
    Do her brother and nieces have underlying health problems?

    Her brother's wife can't be the only person to blame for having people over in the house for dinner - which probably wouldn't have happened if the brother didn't want it.

    The brother is equally to blame absolutely, nobody is just blaming his wife.....

    Underlying health problems don’t come into it, level 5 restrictions do however..


  • #3806
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,014 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    If you don't work in a hospital or other medical settings, that is so, so rare

    So I'm guessing she's been very flagrant with the rules since the get go

    She is a stay at home Mum, her husband a lawyer... at the beginning he due to being a junior partner in a pretty successful law firm with very high profile clients was being hassled to come into work, ‘meet’ clients etc... that’s the way it had been done, client is king etc.. :rolleyes:


  • #3807
    political analyst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,054 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Strumms wrote: »
    The brother is equally to blame absolutely, nobody is just blaming his wife.....

    Underlying health problems don’t come into it, level 5 restrictions do however..

    Do they have severe symptoms?

    If people we care about are OK with taking the risk of being infected then why should we be angry about it?


  • #3808
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,014 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    political analyst wrote: »
    Do they have severe symptoms?

    If people we care about are OK with taking the risk of being infected then why should we be angry about it?

    Symptoms are not severe but not mild...

    We should be angry because my girlfriend is at her wits end, she loves them all to bits.. we should be angry because if you catch covid due to your own negligence and shîttyness you are putting the health and wellbeing of more than yourself at risk.. the family of my girlfriend have been through enough tragedy the last 15 years with her Dad dying in an accident...

    Now this pair with two young kids in the house are inviting friends over, during a pandemic, absolute muppetville.. and catching it twice...

    Can’t blame any lack of intelligence, both are lawyers.


  • #3809
    User142
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 247 ✭✭User142


    User1998 wrote: »
    Would it not be reasonable to expect cases to plateau around next week? Didn’t cases begin to rise again last time despite level 5 lockdown, wasn’t it 400 or so cases and it just wouldn’t go down any further? Hard to see us getting below that level again considering schools are open/opening, loads of construction open, population sick of restrictions, still no mandatory quarantine, work places telling workers to come back to the office etc?

    Once the government announces that its made it through the vulnerable group I can see cases creeping up again.


  • #3810
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,312 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    mollser wrote: »
    Why did they include them in the death numbers and age range 0 to 91 then? Given they're not confirmed that's the height of irresponsibility and casts doubt on their death stats, they knew what they were doing 100%.

    I don't know who exactly included them in exactly what report - but whoever it was, who I presume is a professional that has expertise in the field, felt that the cases were deemed worthy of further investigation.

    Now, perhaps it isn't unreasonable to suggest that those deaths shouldn't have been included until final confirmation was got one way or the other. But it isn't unusual for prelimary and clinically unconfirmed deaths to be included in preliminary death figures and then to be de-notified if necessary in time - this is not a new feature of how deaths have been reported throughout the pandemic.

    To the best of my knowledge it isn't NPHET themselves who collate these figures, but the HPSC - I'm open to correction here. According to Glynn NPHET hadn't even discussed the issue at their previous meeting.


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  • #3811
    political analyst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,054 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Strumms wrote: »
    Symptoms are not severe but not mild...

    We should be angry because my girlfriend is at her wits end, she loves them all to bits.. we should be angry because if you catch covid due to your own negligence and shîttyness you are putting the health and wellbeing of more than yourself at risk.. the family of my girlfriend have been through enough tragedy the last 15 years with her Dad dying in an accident...

    Now this pair with two young kids in the house are inviting friends over, during a pandemic, absolute muppetville.. and catching it twice...

    Can’t blame any lack of intelligence, both are lawyers.

    Surely, her brother must also have been devastated by their father's death.

    'Not severe but not mild' is a description that is applicable to some cases to the flu. If they don't have severe symptoms then they won't die.


This discussion has been closed.
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