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Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

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  • #2912
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    Harold Sticky Scuba wrote: »
    It's not just those students though. There's parties going on everywhere attended by idiots with no concern for others. I know someone who was walking through Harold's Cross on Fri or Saturday evening and saw 2 parties going on in the space of a few minutes.

    If someone with covid attended that party in Limerick and gave it to 30 or 40 of the attendees and they all headed out to meet friends, or went home to parents the next day and gave it to them, parents or friends headed into work and passed it on etc etc how many elderly or clinically vulnerable people could end up seriously ill or dead?

    How is concern and anger over people recklessly putting others at that kind of risk an over reaction.

    Well I think it's not a proportional reaction at all even though I still think it was wrong what happened. Zero people are more likely to have caught the virus at that gathering than the 30 or 40 of your example.

    I'm curious to know how you'll feel this winter coming if we are told 1000 people are likely to die of covid over the winter if we all act over Christmas like we did pre pandemic e.g. Christmas parties, sessions, large family gatherings. Would you think we should have restrictions to lesson the expected deaths over that period?


  • #2913
    badger54
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22 ✭badger54


    Can anyone provide a breakdown of the total deaths into over 70s and under 70s please?

    I'm not sure I've seen a real breakdown on figures for deaths (or hospitalisations) according to age, pre-existing condition etc.


  • #2914
    ArthurDayne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    Harold Sticky Scuba wrote: »
    It's not just those students though. There's parties going on everywhere attended by idiots with no concern for others. I know someone who was walking through Harold's Cross on Fri or Saturday evening and saw 2 parties going on in the space of a few minutes.

    If someone with covid attended that party in Limerick and gave it to 30 or 40 of the attendees and they all headed out to meet friends, or went home to parents the next day and gave it to them, parents or friends headed into work and passed it on etc etc how many elderly or clinically vulnerable people could end up seriously ill or dead?

    How is concern and anger over people recklessly putting others at that kind of risk an over reaction.

    Could you please provide us with a list of every single time you went out in your twenties and thought “Oh god I might catch / pass a virus onto someone”? How many times did you ever decline to leave the house out of fear that you may directly or indirectly cause or contribute to an accident or a death? The truth is that throughout your life you may well have contributed to someone or several people dying — you have no way of knowing and I doubt it has ever crossed your mind. Instead, you pontificate about how little others care when inevitably the day will come again when you don’t spend your time drawing endless Venn Diagrams of the many ways in which you might be contributing to misery and death locally and around the world.

    The idea that human beings should be made to feel responsible for every single ripple and every single flutter of the butterfly effect from all their actions is utterly devoid of sustainability. Lockdown was never touted or advertised as a year long suppression of the fundamentals of human nature — and if it had been, I doubt that many would have been as eager to roll with it. These students were out and about because that is the very essence of being young, their ability to socialise has been suppressed in ways and in duration that would go beyond even wartime.

    There is little point in being an advocate for the government’s policy if you are not willing to accept that it involves a fundamental suppression of human nature which will inevitably lead to disobedience. If you do not accept it, then your thinking is illogical and devoid of realism.


  • #2915
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,772 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Harold Sticky Scuba wrote: »
    It's not just those students though. There's parties going on everywhere attended by idiots with no concern for others. I know someone who was walking through Harold's Cross on Fri or Saturday evening and saw 2 parties going on in the space of a few minutes.

    If someone with covid attended that party in Limerick and gave it to 30 or 40 of the attendees and they all headed out to meet friends, or went home to parents the next day and gave it to them, parents or friends headed into work and passed it on etc etc how many elderly or clinically vulnerable people could end up seriously ill or dead?

    How is concern and anger over people recklessly putting others at that kind of risk an over reaction.

    Would you say its proportional?


  • #2916
    Ficheall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,039 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    ArthurDayne wrote: »
    Could you please provide us with a list of every single time you went out in your twenties and thought “Oh god I might catch / pass a virus onto someone”? How many times did you ever decline to leave the house out of fear that you may directly or indirectly cause or contribute to an accident or a death? The truth is that throughout your life you may well have contributed to someone or several people dying — you have no way of knowing and I doubt it has ever crossed your mind. Instead, you pontificate about how little others care when inevitably the day will come again when you don’t spend your time drawing endless Venn Diagrams of the many ways in which you might be contributing to misery and death locally and around the world.

    The idea that human beings should be made to feel responsible for every single ripple and every single flutter of the butterfly effect from all their actions is utterly devoid of sustainability. Lockdown was never touted or advertised as a year long suppression of the fundamentals of human nature — and if it had been, I doubt that many would have been as eager to roll with it. These students were out and about because that is the very essence of being young, their ability to socialise has been suppressed in ways and in duration that would go beyond even wartime.

    There is little point in being an advocate for the government’s policy if you are not willing to accept that it involves a fundamental suppression of human nature which will inevitably lead to disobedience. If you do not accept it, then your thinking is illogical and devoid of realism.
    Well, I've seen a lot of of absolving people of personal responsibility during the pandemic, but that's the first time I've seen someone invoking the butterfly effect :pac:


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  • #2917
    Drumpot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    ArthurDayne wrote: »
    Could you please provide us with a list of every single time you went out in your twenties and thought “Oh god I might catch / pass a virus onto someone”? How many times did you ever decline to leave the house out of fear that you may directly or indirectly cause or contribute to an accident or a death? The truth is that throughout your life you may well have contributed to someone or several people dying — you have no way of knowing and I doubt it has ever crossed your mind. Instead, you pontificate about how little others care when inevitably the day will come again when you don’t spend your time drawing endless Venn Diagrams of the many ways in which you might be contributing to misery and death locally and around the world.

    The idea that human beings should be made to feel responsible for every single ripple and every single flutter of the butterfly effect from all their actions is utterly devoid of sustainability. Lockdown was never touted or advertised as a year long suppression of the fundamentals of human nature — and if it had been, I doubt that many would have been as eager to roll with it. These students were out and about because that is the very essence of being young, their ability to socialise has been suppressed in ways and in duration that would go beyond even wartime.

    There is little point in being an advocate for the government’s policy if you are not willing to accept that it involves a fundamental suppression of human nature which will inevitably lead to disobedience. If you do not accept it, then your thinking is illogical and devoid of realism.

    I can’t remember ever having to experience a pandemic in my lifetime so your comments are relatively redundant. In short, many people lack the capacity to understand and appraise the current situation in a rational manner that apportions responsibility to the actions of people making decisions that go against the common interest during this crisis situation.

    Could we of handled things better? Could we of done things differently? Of course, but none of this excuses people breaking rules that most of us are following. If everybody just decided to do what they want you get anarchy. I don’t think some of you get this. Democracy’s are at their core about us following what the majority want, preferably with most people benefiting in societyand what’s in thee interest of the greater good, not what the loud minority want. The large majority probably do want less restrictions but most accept it’s not feasible right now. In short, the majority of the population are responsible adults who appreciate they have to make sacrifices at the moment until this crisis passes.

    This is a crisis situation , so to try and apply levels of normality “students love to socialise” etc, is maybe not so much a false dichotomy but a disingenuous defence of what is currently anti social behavior. Part of the reason some people excuse it is because they clearly lack the capacity to fathom how serious things are. “But not everybody is feeling pain the same”, that’s true but that doesn’t excuse those who feel they are having a tougher time of it by breaking the guidelines the majority are following.

    People with medical conditions or over 60 are scared for their lives. People not in the public service are worried about their job security (I’m self employed). People with young children ( I have young children) are having to manage different issues to people with older children. Certain public service jobs are really trying right now for numerous reasons (healthcare, Garda , teachers even). And then we have a section of society who are finding the lack of socialising options as their biggest concern, well whoopty f*kin doo , welcome to the real world, we all have struggles with this.. Everybody is suffering in some form but most are doing their best to manage things without affecting others.

    When people choose to break restrictions aimed at lowering transmissions, they are by default acting irresponsibly and its leading to outbreaks , particularly when it’s lock ins or unwise social gatherings that involved alcohol.

    What I’ve noticed a lot is that people will choose whatever narrative suits their proclivitys. Many people are so absorbed in themselves and how they feel about this last 12 months they can’t step back from this and see the bigger picture. People react differently to situations. Not all tennagees or college kids are acting the bollox, in many cases the values and attitudes of those around them and their family will heavily influence their actions.

    I won’t pretend to of been perfect during this crisis but I can honestly say that generally I have been very cautious and tried to make sure I don’t take unnecessary risks that might affect me or others.


  • #2918
    Timmy O Toole
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 348 ✭✭Timmy O Toole


    badger54 wrote: »
    Can anyone provide a breakdown of the total deaths into over 70s and under 70s please?

    I'm not sure I've seen a real breakdown on figures for deaths (or hospitalisations) according to age, pre-existing condition etc.

    Will never be realesed as the facts wouldn't scare people enough. The average age of deaths is in the 80s.


  • #2919
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,944 ✭✭✭plodder


    prunudo wrote: »
    Hadn't seen it mentioned but I see Isle of Man is going back into lockdown. They had had a very successful covid free status for a long time last year. Seemingly the latest breakout can be traced to ferry worker, just shows the whole covid zero arguement is unworkable here and needs to be put to bed once and for all.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-56245100
    Worth quoting in case anyone missed it earlier.

    “Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt” - Carl Jung



  • #2920
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Timmy O Toole wrote: »
    Will never be realesed as the facts wouldn't scare people enough. The average age of deaths is in the 80s.

    You're sort of right, when a younger person dies their age is splashed all over the media. The 16 year old for example.
    Just reading the Examiner earlier the age of the three brothers who died in Cork ( murder, suicide ) was given.
    It was suggested quite sometime ago that age isn't given out of respect, the same respect isn't afforded to others who pass away from other causes. Strange that.


  • #2921
    Timmy O Toole
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 348 ✭✭Timmy O Toole


    Ficheall wrote: »
    Can you provide a link to this?


    Closest related I can see is that the average age hospitalised is around 40 for the last day of data spookwoman posted.

    We're talking about deaths


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  • #2922
    TheDoctor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,980 ✭✭✭TheDoctor


    Timmy O Toole wrote: »
    Will never be realesed as the facts wouldn't scare people enough. The average age of deaths is in the 80s.

    I had a document last week on it, I’ll try find again. Was up to mid February. Of the 4200 deaths, 39 were below the age of 45 and about 100 below 55.

    Average age was 83 I think.


  • #2923
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,944 ✭✭✭plodder


    Median age of deaths is in the weekly epidemiology reports:

    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/epidemiologyofcovid-19inirelandweeklyreports/COVID-19%20Weekly%20Report_%20Week%208_%20Slideset_HPSC_WEB_v1.0.pdf

    Median age of death is 83 since March last year.

    “Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt” - Carl Jung



  • #2924
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,467 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    GP data for Tuesday very similar to Monday, no bump so far this week, holding steady thankfully, hopefully to be reflected in positivity and cases

    https://tomorrowscare.ie/covid/2021-03-03_COVID_GP_Survey_Results.pdf


  • #2925
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    I'm sure government reaction can in no way be seen as deflection........


  • #2926
    Snickers Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    Rebelbrowser wrote: »
    For the record, I completely sympathise with students. This is **** on everybody, but particularly them. As another poster said, my college days were the best days of my life. They were truly life altering. Hell I got together with my wife at just such a drunken second year party. So I really get how hard it is to ask them not to socialise. But bottom line is that there is no alternative for a few more months. And most students get this and are playing ball completely.

    If we really think that today's students are getting a raw deal (and they are) then we should really cast an eye at the TV series It's a Sin that is available on Channel 4's streaming site at the moment.

    It's about young gay people in the early 1980s discovering the liberating delights of finding that there were many other similarly inclined people in the world and they could party to their heart's content with no fear of pregnancy (long a great inhibitor of heterosexual promiscuity) because hey, what could go wrong?

    Well, as the series shows a deadly pestilence called AIDS which made its appearance at about that time. There were parallels to be drawn with today's situation too, as the storyline makes clear. People doubting that it existed, that it was all a conspiracy dreamed up by control freaks who wanted to extend their authority over everything everybody did up to and including the bedroom. Sound familiar?

    It was real all right.

    What sort of restrictions do you think that pandemic imposed on the gay community and what were the penalties for ignoring them?

    Fortunately, as with this current pandemic, science was on hand with solutions that helped to curtail the worst effects of the disease and to bring the death rate down but there were major behavioural changes forced on gay people too. And I believe they endure to this day.

    Not being gay I can't say for sure but I suspect that some of the more exuberant activities depicted in the series are less common nowadays.

    Trade offs people. The sooner we kick this pandemic the sooner you young types can get back to being 24 hour party people!!!

    (If they ever existed)


  • #2927
    TheDoctor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,980 ✭✭✭TheDoctor


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    I'm sure government reaction can in no way be seen as deflection........

    Wasn’t even close to their 100,000 doses they were banging on about.

    I do recall being told on this thread to “grow up” when I said the numbers looked low early last week.

    Perhaps there is an 18,000 dose lag to come in.

    Hmmm


  • #2928
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    I'm sure government reaction can in no way be seen as deflection........

    Protests in Dublin & shenanigans near UL last night manna from heaven, those kites virtually fly themselves.


  • #2929
    Rebelbrowser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,368 ✭✭✭Rebelbrowser


    ArthurDayne wrote: »
    The idea that human beings should be made to feel responsible for every single ripple and every single flutter of the butterfly effect from all their actions is utterly devoid of sustainability. .

    Ah now! There is a pandemic ongoing in Ireland with known high transmitability. There is presently a variant with even higher transmitability. There has been a spike in cases in Limerick in the last few weeks (perhaps more accurately there has not been the same reduction as in other counties), and we are told that student outbreaks are a big driver of this / of covid in Limerick (and Galway). So with 100 of said student body in Limerick gathering, the odds of one of them having covid, and thus spreading it to others at a 100 person gathering, is a little (and then some) beyond the realm of butterfly effect. On the contrary, the risk is very real and forseeable.

    ps - agree the 18k shortfall in vaccines is far bigger news.


  • #2930
    quokula
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭quokula


    Klonker wrote: »
    Well I think it's not a proportional reaction at all even though I still think it was wrong what happened. Zero people are more likely to have caught the virus at that gathering than the 30 or 40 of your example.

    You're more likely to kill zero people than 30 or 40 if you drink and drive, but it's completely uncontroversial to acknowledge that if we let everyone do it without penalty then many people will end up dead. Same applies here. The more we allow completely flagrant ignorance of the rules that exist to protect lives, the more people will die and the longer the decent responsible people among us will have to spend locked down. It's pretty simple.


  • #2931
    hynesie08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,352 ✭✭✭✭hynesie08


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    I'm sure government reaction can in no way be seen as deflection........

    I for one am shocked that vaccines that never arrived aren't in arms already......


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  • #2932
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    hynesie08 wrote: »
    I for one am shocked that vaccines that never arrived aren't in arms already......

    Prob best they dont set targets so .


  • #2933
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,467 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    Prob best they dont set targets so .

    Well then people would complain that there isn't a target.... dammed if you do dammed if you don't.

    If the AZ delivery didn't get pushed out then they would have hit target. Not alot anyone can do here about a delayed delivery


  • #2934
    Kunta Kinte
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 718 ✭✭✭Kunta Kinte


    TheDoctor wrote: »
    Wasn’t even close to their 100,000 doses they were banging on about.

    I do recall being told on this thread to “grow up” when I said the numbers looked low early last week.

    Perhaps there is an 18,000 dose lag to come in.

    Hmmm

    It has been repeatedly stated including by many in this thread that the shortfall in vaccinations was down to Astra Zeneca failing to deliver the expected amount of doses. Are you aware of that or are you are choosing to ignore this fact because it doesn`t suit your anti health authorities agenda?

    Hmmm indeed..................:rolleyes:


  • #2935
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    quokula wrote: »
    You're more likely to kill zero people than 30 or 40 if you drink and drive, but it's completely uncontroversial to acknowledge that if we let everyone do it without penalty then many people will end up dead. Same applies here. The more we allow completely flagrant ignorance of the rules that exist to protect lives, the more people will die and the longer the decent responsible people among us will have to spend locked down. It's pretty simple.

    That drink driving analogy is ridiculous and you know it. I could come at from the other side and say if we all stopped driving we'd save lives? Why are risking hundreds of lives every single year, can we all not walk everywhere and save these lives?

    I'm not saying the people involved shouldn't face consequences for their actions but that's for the guards to do. They can fine them the relevant amounts and if their parents found out I'm sure they'd have a talk with them too. My point being it shouldn't be the top topic on current affairs and news programmes today and the government shouldn't be making statements about it. I think the minister of justice should be occupied with a lot more important matters than going on Newstalk to talk about 100 students having a party in Limerick. The response to this has not been proportional or rational in any way.


  • #2936
    Kunta Kinte
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 718 ✭✭✭Kunta Kinte


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Well then people would complain that there isn't a target.... dammed if you do dammed if you don't.

    If the AZ delivery didn't get pushed out then they would have hit target. Not alot anyone can do here about a delayed delivery

    It seems that some people here don`t believe in letting facts get in the way of having a good rant.


  • #2937
    TheDoctor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,980 ✭✭✭TheDoctor


    Kunta Kinte wrote: »
    It has been repeatedly stated including by many in this thread that the shortfall in vaccinations was down to Astra Zeneca failing to deliver the expected amount of doses. Are you aware of that or are you are choosing to ignore this fact because it doesn`t suit your anti health authorities agenda?

    Hmmm indeed..................:rolleyes:

    Clearly intelligence is something you are in short supply of.

    The conversation last week didn’t once mention supply shortages nor did the 100k crowd the Friday before last week.

    Feel free to jog on now, don’t have time for your nonsense


  • #2938
    hynesie08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,352 ✭✭✭✭hynesie08


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    Prob best they dont set targets so .

    Yeah, I mean people still believe the vaccine calculator and the ecdc charts that say we've jabbed 1.1 per hundred, telling them that we'll vaccinate 0 or not saying anything would turn out really well.


  • #2939
    hynesie08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,352 ✭✭✭✭hynesie08


    TheDoctor wrote: »
    Clearly intelligence is something you are in short supply of.

    The conversation last week didn’t once mention supply shortages nor did the 100k crowd the Friday before last week.

    Feel free to jog on now, don’t have time for your nonsense

    So you don't understand how supply works?


  • #2940
    Kunta Kinte
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 718 ✭✭✭Kunta Kinte


    TheDoctor wrote: »
    Clearly intelligence is something you are in short supply of.

    The conversation last week didn’t once mention supply shortages nor did the 100k crowd the Friday before last week.

    Feel free to jog on now, don’t have time for your nonsense

    Post reported. Jog on yourself buddy boy.


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  • #2941
    TheDoctor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,980 ✭✭✭TheDoctor


    hynesie08 wrote: »
    So you don't understand how supply works?

    Please go back to the conversation with upset people last week when I said Monday looked low.

    No one once mentioned supply issues.


This discussion has been closed.
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