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Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

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  • #2882
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Rebelbrowser wrote: »
    Fine everyone at the party, all students disciplined by their third level institution and the organisers subjected to the harshest punishment allowed by the applicable law (not sure what that is).
    We are about 6-8 weeks off some reduction in restrictions so that's all a bit draconian. Sure, keep an eye on them and maybe intervene as required but not much else. Hold the line is the general message not do this or else!


  • #2883
    RebelButtMunch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,409 ✭✭✭RebelButtMunch


    SeaMermaid wrote: »
    I wonder would it be worth exploring for Ireland to follow a similar vaccination path to the UK? Also early data shows pfizer and AstraZeneca reduces transmission of the virus.

    The majority of covid cases and spread is occurring in younger adults. If even young adults are given one dose of pfizer, that will help with covid case numbers and spread.

    I'm not saying older people should be denied a vaccine but getting Covid transmission down as much as possible will help a lot more people including the older people. I have the willpower to keep going the path of restrictions because I think it's so important but many people are getting fed up of lockdown. I do see a problem upcoming with a lot of the anti-lockdowners. In their minds, the pandemic will be over at that stage but the virus will circulate in unvaccinated adults. The rte investigates tallaght hospital showed the virus doesn't know age and there adults in their 20s and 30s and 40s waiting for hospital admission and all covid related.

    That strategy pops up every now and then, but remember that the whole strategy of lockdown and vaccination is to protect the health service from being totally overwhelmed. Vaccinating the 20/30 somethings wouldnt really achieve that I think.


  • #2884
    The Nal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,007 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    alentejo wrote: »
    The hysteria about the Limerick Students. Yes it was wrong, however as a nation, the reaction just seems over the top! What have be become as a society?

    Seems to be just some of the media and the politicians are going OTT. Most people know that students have been very well behaved mainly - for a ****ing year!

    I certainly wouldn't have at that age. Missing one Saturday night was a disaster back then.

    Harris straight out bad mouthing them in a week where we missed our vaccine target.

    Cat is out of the bag now anyway. Its spring, the tide has turned and we'll see a lot more of this. Government need to adapt.


  • #2885
    Rebelbrowser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,368 ✭✭✭Rebelbrowser


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    Student of all ages have been so good throughout all of this. I think you are being OTT

    I have accepted above that 99% of students have been excellent and how awful this is for them in particular. I suppose that's why I'm so unsympathetic to the 1%. It's no harder for them. I would let behavioural scientists advise on the best way to maximise compliance from now - and yes perhaps they would say I am being OTT. Hard balance between carrot and stick. But there are definitely some who only respond to the stick.


  • #2886
    adam240610
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 888 ✭✭✭adam240610


    I'm a final year student and haven't seen majority of my year since last February which has really sucked, but you can't really excuse a hundred people having a party during a pandemic especially now that we're almost at the finish line


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  • #2887
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    Rebelbrowser wrote: »
    I have accepted above that 99% of students have been excellent and how awful this is for them in particular. I suppose that's why I'm so unsympathetic to the 1%. It's no harder for them. I would let behavioural scientists advise on the best way to maximise compliance from now - and yes perhaps they would say I am being OTT. Hard balance between carrot and stick. But there are definitely some who only respond to the stick.

    I get that but its a slippery slope to go down . For example RTE presenters breached guidelines and didn't lose their jobs .


  • #2888
    Rebelbrowser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,368 ✭✭✭Rebelbrowser


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    I get that but its a slippery slope to go down . For example RTE presenters breached guidelines and didn't lose their jobs .

    True. They should have been disciplined too (not saying for the record that students should have been expelled or anything - but there are many layers of discipline below that).


  • #2889
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Sanctions from the University are overkill. It's none of UL's business what the students get up to outside of the university.

    Campus accommodation and college administration are usually strictly separated, and for good reason; students who get evicted for anti-social behaviour don't get thrown out of college.

    As it should be. No more than my employer should be allowed to reprimand me if was caught breaking the law outside of work.

    We shouldn't allow this US nonsense infiltrate here where employers/universities are permitted a say in what people do in all aspects of their life. Pandemic or not, we don't need to suspend *all* of our rights.


  • #2890
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    Rebelbrowser wrote: »
    True. They should have been disciplined too (not saying for the record that students should have been expelled or anything - but there are many layers of discipline below that).

    Its better to let these things go now anyway . Last year it would annoy me a lot aswel. However vaccines is the way out now. A slight bump in numbers or plateau wont change that


  • #2891
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    seamus wrote: »
    students who get evicted for anti-social behaviour don't get thrown out of college.

    As it should be. No more than my employer should be allowed to reprimand me if was caught breaking the law outside of work.

    These events do occur in Ireland. People have been expelled from their studies and fired from their jobs for incidents that occurred outside of their work or college.


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  • #2892
    D.Q
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭D.Q


    Similar to the street drinkers from last summer imo. Easy target to sensationalise and wheel out to the media. Nice handy scapegoat for the government.


  • #2893
    big syke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 903 ✭✭✭big syke


    Any update on hospital numbers yet?


  • #2894
    Rebelbrowser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,368 ✭✭✭Rebelbrowser


    As below..

    seamus wrote: »
    Sanctions from the University are overkill. It's none of UL's business what the students get up to outside of the university.

    You are correct provided UL didn't pass any bye law or similar recently making such breaches of covid rules a breach of their student rules. My sense is that they may have (open to correction) in which case the University can sanction them

    Campus accommodation and college administration are usually strictly separated, and for good reason; students who get evicted for anti-social behaviour don't get thrown out of college.

    But they can depending on that behaviour. Again, correct there is no automatic linkage (i.e. eviction doesn't automatically set in train disciplinary measures) but nor does eviction prevent the offending action from, simultaneously, being subject to disciplinary procedures.

    As it should be. No more than my employer should be allowed to reprimand me if was caught breaking the law outside of work.

    But again, your employer can. For example people convicted of criminal offences often lose their jobs as a result (depends on severity, nature of the job, etc). Its a well known ground for dismissal in employment law

    We shouldn't allow this US nonsense infiltrate here where employers/universities are permitted a say in what people do in all aspects of their life. Pandemic or not, we don't need to suspend *all* of our rights.

    I do largely agree, but for all the above reasons this is not some US phenomenon new to Ireland. Much of the above was the law of the land 25 years ago.


  • #2895
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    D.Q wrote: »
    Similar to the street drinkers from last summer imo. Easy target to sensationalise and wheel out to the media. Nice handy scapegoat for the government.

    Its a nice story to have in the news the first week we miss out on a clearly stated vaccination goal


  • #2896
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    Turtwig wrote: »
    These events do occur in Ireland. People have been expelled from their studies and fired from their jobs for incidents that occurred outside of their work or college.

    Yes . For serious offences . Not having a street party come on.


  • #2897
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    AdamD wrote: »
    Its a nice story to have in the news the first week we miss out on a clearly stated vaccination goal

    The public have been blaming each other from the start. Masks not been worn correctly , people walking by you too close on a footpath etc . Such non issues in the grand scheme of things .


  • #2898
    thebiglad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,733 ✭✭✭thebiglad


    big syke wrote: »
    Any update on hospital numbers yet?

    Its available here

    https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/coronavirus-daily-operations-updates.html


  • #2899
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,057 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    seamus wrote: »
    Sanctions from the University are overkill. It's none of UL's business what the students get up to outside of the university.

    Campus accommodation and college administration are usually strictly separated, and for good reason; students who get evicted for anti-social behaviour don't get thrown out of college.

    As it should be. No more than my employer should be allowed to reprimand me if was caught breaking the law outside of work.

    We shouldn't allow this US nonsense infiltrate here where employers/universities are permitted a say in what people do in all aspects of their life. Pandemic or not, we don't need to suspend *all* of our rights.

    It actually is, there's a code of conduct on condition of enrollment, so they're well within their rights to punish students who break it.

    Tbh, covid or no covid, setting off fireworks in a residential estate is incredibly stupid. Someone could have got seriously hurt there.


  • #2900
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    seamus wrote: »
    AstraZeneca failed to deliver 25,000 doses last week. This was notified early in the week, but after the HSE had aimed for 100k. Which means in context the vaccination programme actually overdelivered by 6,000 doses. Nothing the HSE can do about missed deliveries.

    It's a bit of a joke that we can't get them quick enough and the French and Germans are having to come up with creative solutions to shift their supplies which could begin "piling up". Germany hasn't utilised nearly a million doses that remain in storage.
    The utilisation rate of the AstraZeneca jab in France stands at 24%, an official with the health ministry said on Tuesday, well below a target set at 80-85%. In Germany two-thirds of 1.4m delivered doses remained in storage on Monday.


    https://twitter.com/philipoltermann/status/1366764234516889600?s=20


  • #2901
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Turtwig wrote: »
    These events do occur in Ireland. People have been expelled from their studies and fired from their jobs for incidents that occurred outside of their work or college.
    Sure. When it's discovered that they're a rapist or have been involved in racist rallies. Nobody gets fired because they got a fined for a public order incident over the weekend

    Even then, some of people who've been fired for just being "publically unsavoury" may be an overstep IMHO. We've allowed the line between private life and work life to become too blurred in this country.

    (Off-topic :D)


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  • #2902
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    prunudo wrote: »
    Hadn't seen it mentioned but I see Isle of Man is going back into lockdown. They had had a very successful covid free status for a long time last year. Seemingly the latest breakout can be traced to ferry worker, just shows the whole covid zero arguement is unworkable here and needs to be put to bed once and for all.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-56245100

    The zero covid argument is directly related to vaccine rollout though. The idea is that you do it once and then because you vaccinate the vulnerable in the interim, when it comes back it doesn't pack the same punch.


  • #2903
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,270 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    d161 wrote: »
    I had never heard of gript until last week and for some reason I had confused John McGuirk with Justin Barrett and Youth Defence whom I had several run-ins with as a student. Perhaps they are linked, I've no idea, but I have to say I agreed with everything he said last night.
    I thought he came across as very articulate and balanced. And I was delighted to see a counter argument to Lock Down on MSM. The closest I've seen before on RTE before was Dr Ciara Kelly who very gently suggested that the Irish lock down was too much.

    Whether you agree with lockdown or not, the official response to any dissent or protests has been an attempt to discredit and stop disagreement by lumping all who are against lock down with the far-right or uneducated conspiracy nut jobs.

    I'm the same, never heard of him until last night and so could take his interview objectively, and I did..and it was quick and cut straight into the others without question. he did in fact rattle the interviewer, especially with the remarks about BLM protests been endorsed during lockdown. I didn't realise he was a contributor or owner of that GRIPT site. He's hardly stacey keach in Amercian history X FFS, as far as last night went in my book, he sickened them mentioning the alternate yet educated contra views like feeney, which were essentially force resigned...nice to have some balance anyway, even if it wasn't as controlled as RTE would have hoped. I remember watching Prof Bill tormey on it too and he was so annoyed about the situation that he actually did himself an injustice, sad really because it's very emotional I imagine getting on TV and losing the rag with the McConkeys of this world


  • #2904
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    adam240610 wrote: »
    I'm a final year student and haven't seen majority of my year since last February which has really sucked, but you can't really excuse a hundred people having a party during a pandemic especially now that we're almost at the finish line

    A month ago I would have agreed entirely with you. The problem is we're not being told that we're not nearly at the finish line, and that the finish line won't be until the middle of next year at the earliest. This absolutely moronic commentary by Leo and backed up by both NPHET and the ISAG crowd during February is what has caused such an outbreak of nihilistic YOLO sentiment, and I expect this to get a lot worse fairly rapidly if the messaging isn't adjusted ASAP.

    You can't tell people that mass gatherings such as these will be off the table for timeframes measured in years and expect them to comply indefinitely, it flies in the face of everything about how humans work.


  • #2905
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    would a complaint to Comreg be appropriate for things like this?

    I downloaded a copy of RTE's code of conduct last night and will comb it over the next couple of days. I would imagine it's the BAI one would be looking at contacting as opposed to ComReg but again the laws around this are quite complicated so don't quote me on that.

    I never would have suggested taking action against the media if it wasn't for the non-disclosure of lobby group influence, just FWIW. I don't believe in censorship and I believe a free press to be one of the most important aspects of living in a democratic society. However, RTE is a public service broadcaster and as such, we should not tolerate anything other than complete objectivity and impartiality in their programming.

    Airing content written and produced by a private political lobby group and dressing it up as homegrown, organic content is absolutely unacceptable. In any circumstance.


  • #2906
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    thebiglad wrote: »
    Its available here

    https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/coronavirus-daily-operations-updates.html
    Also on the hub but may not always be fully up to date there. 488 and 114 in ICU are the current totals on the hub.


  • #2907
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    I get that the students partying is wrong in the current circumstances but as usual it's being overblown. It'll be the first topic on all out current affairs radio shows today, it was the top story on RTE news app earlier this morning, you just know it'll be asked about at next NPHET press conference. Government officials making comments about is also overblown imo. The justice minister was on Newstalk this morning commenting on it.

    It's about 100 students having a party ffs, it's finger waging gone mad. I feel like a lot of the nation have lost their ability to act and react proportionally, people are getting hysterical about every little thing. I don't know how they'll manage when things get back to normal.


  • #2908
    D.Q
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭D.Q


    titan18 wrote: »

    Tbh, covid or no covid, setting off fireworks in a residential estate is incredibly stupid. Someone could have got seriously hurt there.

    Or worse, expelled.


  • #2909
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    Klonker wrote: »
    I get that the students partying is wrong in the current circumstances but as usual it's being overblown. It'll be the first topic on all out current affairs radio shows today, it was the top story on RTE news app earlier this morning, you just know it'll be asked about at next NPHET press conference. Government officials making comments about is also overblown imo. The justice minister was on Newstalk this morning commenting on it.

    It's about 100 students having a party ffs, it's finger waging gone mad. I feel like a lot of the nation have lost their ability to act and react proportionally, people are getting hysterical about every little thing. I don't know how they'll manage when things get back to normal.

    It's not just those students though. There's parties going on everywhere attended by idiots with no concern for others. I know someone who was walking through Harold's Cross on Fri or Saturday evening and saw 2 parties going on in the space of a few minutes.

    If someone with covid attended that party in Limerick and gave it to 30 or 40 of the attendees and they all headed out to meet friends, or went home to parents the next day and gave it to them, parents or friends headed into work and passed it on etc etc how many elderly or clinically vulnerable people could end up seriously ill or dead?

    How is concern and anger over people recklessly putting others at that kind of risk an over reaction.


  • #2910
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,057 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    D.Q wrote: »
    Or worse, expelled.

    Tbf, I'd rather be expelled than get hit in the face with a firework (unless this is the Hermione meme at which point fair enough).

    To me, even outside of covid, I don't particularly think students having an open party with fireworks in a residential area is acceptable anyway. It's less so with covid of course.


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  • #2911
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,086 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Harold Sticky Scuba wrote: »
    It's not just those students though. There's parties going on everywhere attended by idiots with no concern for others. I know someone who was walking through Harold's Cross on Fri or Saturday evening and saw 2 parties going on in the space of a few minutes.

    If someone with covid attended that party in Limerick and gave it to 30 or 40 of the attendees and they all headed out to meet friends, or went home to parents the next day and gave it to them, parents or friends headed into work and passed it on etc etc how many elderly or clinically vulnerable people could end up seriously ill or dead?

    How is concern and anger over people recklessly putting others at that kind of risk an over reaction.

    That's the risk alright

    At least the party was outdoor so bit less chance of a mass spreader event

    Still I'd hate the potential cases arising out of this to be used to stop what limited easing of restrictions the country might have got after Easter

    Fingers crossed that's not the case


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