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Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

1…8283858788…326

Comments

  • #2522
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,775 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    patnor1011 wrote: »
    This is very concerning.
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/almost-one-million-hospital-appointments-cancelled-by-pandemic-40147955.html

    This has a potential to overwhelm hospitals right after they try to go to business as usual.
    And if not, it will result in ever longer waiting lists and people getting considerably worse if not ending up dead from something which may have been treatable if caught in time.

    None of this is news

    Obviously the Indo are bored of the retreating Covid now so want to move on to other ways of causing upset to sell their rags


  • #2523
    Azatadine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭Azatadine


    The days where McConkey, Ryan, Staines and Killeen are no longer relevant enough to be on 24 hour tap for our national media is coming. I can feel it now. I'm sure they can too. I'm sure they'll give it one hell of a crescendo before disappearing though.


  • #2524
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    This is a very serious and dangerous claim to make , which needs to be backed up by evidence , Gruffalox.
    Otherwise it is just antivaxx nonsense, whether that is what you mean or not .


    It is extremely important to all of us that the vaccine rollout is not undermined by conjecture and rumour .
    Many people faint or pass out getting vaccines or any other injection, but it is not a reaction to the injection .
    Many others are unfortunately I'll either before or after they get their vaccines and their subsequent illness needs to be investigated and it is recorded if it is due to vaccine ir something else.
    Nothing is being hidden and everything is reported .
    People saying otherwise are disingenuous or just wrong .

    What difference does it make to you if I am vaccine cautious? Not "anti vaxx" which is a dumb catch all derogatory phrase. I choose to wait and observe. I read positive reports with appreciation but continue to wait until time has passed. I personally know a couple of medical academics who agree with me on this. There is not one nodding mono-mind among medics on this subject.

    I am extremely careful about covid. More than most I know. Have not been inside anyone elses house in a year. Have only had my children inside mine. Wear proper ffp2 masks when out. Stand well back from people. Meet friends and family only outdoors and distanced out of respect for them.

    I would never go on a plane or go to any gathering eg family event without getting a negative PCR result immediately beforehand. Cannot understand how people would ever go to a funeral or visit a relation over Christmas without getting a clear test result first. Especially when viral amounts are high in circulation. It is disrespectful.

    I will make and have made a 1000% effort not to spread covid to a vulnerable person. But I will also hold back on getting a vaccine for at least 1 year.
    Because I personally feel it is under tested especially with respect to long term effects and also because multiples of vaccines will be required going forward and that is something I do not relish.
    Because I personally feel I am healthy, thankfully, and could withstand covid. But it is also my conscious risk to take.
    Because I personally feel any attempt at compulsory vaccination continues to be anti democratic as per the Nuremberg Code.
    I take no medication as per choice and due to strong effects experienced in the past. Also because of long study and use of natural medicines which have served me very well.
    I see no reason right now due to govt ineptitude in the handling of this pandemic that I should as a result happily stick out my arms for biannual jabs forever going forwards of a new prophylactic treatment the long term effects of which I am still uncertain. Or that I should be in any way compelled by pressure from all quarters to do so.

    Vaccinated people can still get covid and transmit so they have not become the purified as a result of their injections.

    My choice does not make me dangerous or disingenuous or whatever other insults casually thrown. People who are vaccinated will have their chosen level of protection from the serious effects of getting the disease. That is their right, their choice, their advantage and I am sincerely very glad for them to have that wonderful security and hope.

    And I have the right to my watchful caution until I decide after sufficient study what to do.


  • #2525
    Vicxas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,628 ✭✭✭✭Vicxas


    lawred2 wrote: »
    None of this is news

    Obviously the Indo are bored of the retreating Covid now so want to move on to other ways of causing upset to sell their rags

    Nice to see the Indo reverting to type, means we're definitely nearing the end of the pandemic!


  • #2526
    zerosugarbuzz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭zerosugarbuzz


    Azatadine wrote: »
    The days where McConkey, Ryan, Staines and Killeen are no longer relevant enough to be on 24 hour tap for our national media is coming. I can feel it now. I'm sure they can too. I'm sure they'll give it one hell of a crescendo before disappearing though.

    They’ll hang on kicking and screaming with threats of variants et al, each one worse than the last.!


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  • #2527
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Azatadine wrote: »
    The days where McConkey, Ryan, Staines and Killeen are no longer relevant enough to be on 24 hour tap for our national media is coming. I can feel it now. I'm sure they can too. I'm sure they'll give it one hell of a crescendo before disappearing though.

    I sincerely hope there'll be a proper reckoning with their behaviour and RTE's complicity before that day comes. This is something which needs to be addressed. Otherwise, who knows which other lobby groups might be able to push their propaganda secretly in the future?


  • #2528
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Hospital cases now below 500, at 494 and ICU at 115.


  • #2529
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    I sincerely hope there'll be a proper reckoning with their behaviour and RTE's complicity before that day comes. This is something which needs to be addressed. Otherwise, who knows which other lobby groups might be able to push their propaganda secretly in the future?
    They are like the celebrity economists we had back in 2009, they have their self-righteous reasoning but they'll disappear off the stage soon enough. Talking is not a crime anyway.


  • #2530
    Polar101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,061 ✭✭✭Polar101


    Gruffalux wrote: »
    What difference does it make to you if I am vaccine cautious? Not "anti vaxx" which is a dumb catch all derogatory phrase. I choose to wait and observe. I read positive reports with appreciation but continue to wait until time has passed.

    I have a friend who is also going to observe the vaccine, which means watching Youtube videos about the dangers of vaccines, and then "independently" deciding the vaccine won't be safe. He also definitely knows people who got narcolepsy from the bird flu vaccine. Basically he is hoping some youtubers find problems with the vaccine, so he can tell others it's dangerous, and won't have to take it.

    This is just my experience - I'm in no way commenting on your personal circumstances, and of course everyone is free to make their own decisions.


  • #2531
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,297 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    Ah , I take it back about the punctuation, Jim :pac:

    You have to realise who your audience is (and was).;)


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  • #2532
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,270 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    is_that_so wrote: »
    They are like the celebrity economists we had back in 2009, they have their self-righteous reasoning but they'll disappear off the stage soon enough. Talking is not a crime anyway.

    exactly like eddie hobbs, who had his on TV program then went into politics and is now selling himself on the radio to anyone and everyone who'll listen.


  • #2533
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    is_that_so wrote: »
    They are like the celebrity economists we had back in 2009, they have their self-righteous reasoning but they'll disappear off the stage soon enough. Talking is not a crime anyway.

    Of course it isn't. To be absolutely clear: My specific issue with this group, based on the leaked emails, is the fact that they were able to get their propaganda pushed by the national broadcaster and disguised as organic, homegrown content. That's the issue. To give you an analogy, it would be a similar situation if RTE did a special talk show or investigation into the environmental dangers of meat consumption, and then we discovered that in fact, the content of those shows was authored and produced by an animal rights group who had a totally different agenda than the one RTE ostensibly had for airing the segment, and we were never told that this lobby group had written it. In other words, it was claimed to be about environmentalism, but in fact that aspect was a trojan horse to push an animal rights agenda by the back door.

    According to the leaks, this group's objective in running these segments on RTE was to scare and depress the public in order to manipulate us into supporting their zero COVID strategy and lobbying our politicians accordingly. Yet RTE aired the segments as if they were just lighthearted craic at best and a factual take on the future of living with COVID at worst.

    This kind of fundamental dishonesty simply cannot be allowed in my view. It's similar to the whole issue of Instagram influencers not declaring when a product they "just picked up and are so excited about!" turns out to be something they've been paid or given freebies in exchange for shilling.

    Bottom line is this. If a lobby group is being approached about writing and producing segments for supposedly "factual" television programmes aired by our national broadcaster, then either that fact must be disclosed to the public at the time of the segment's airing, or the national broadcaster is essentially abusing its trust-relationship with the public by disguising agenda-driven propaganda as neutral programming.

    Does this make more sense?

    Another analogy would be if they "just happened" to run a bunch of segments featuring interviews with recovering alcoholics and liver specialists around the subject of binge drinking, and it was subsequently leaked that they had been in direct contact with say AAI about running such a segment, and AAI were privately admitting in their own internal communication to using this platform in order to try and "trick" the public into supporting minimum pricing or earlier closing times.

    The issue isn't what was said, it's the fact that it was disguised as a random, organic segment that RTE came up with for the craic, when in fact we have it in black and white (assuming, again, that the emails are legitimate) that it formed part of a sustained campaign to manipulate public opinion into supporting a specified political ideology or objective.

    I don't think it's remotely controversial to suggest that being a publicly funded, public service broadcaster and engaging in this type of behaviour - for whatever reason - are mutually exclusive. If segments appearing on current affairs programmes are being written and directed by lobby groups - lobby groups which RTE is in regular direct contact with, apparently - then this must be disclosed openly and obviously to those viewing it. It should be watermarked into the beginnings of the segments as far as I'm concerned - just as I would have to publicly state for the record that the SuperDry hoodie I "just picked up" in the shops was in fact gifted to me by SuperDry on the provisio that I give them some free publicity in my Instagram story.

    Without such rules, public service broadcasting has an inherent deficit of trust. In my opinion, this incident should by rights severely damage RTE's credibility, and necessitate a very public statement from those in charge addressing it and, assuming the allegations are true, profusely apologising - not for airing the segment, but for not informing the public as to its true origins.


  • #2534
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    An international incident over anal swabs?!


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/02/stop-doing-anal-covid-tests-on-our-citizens-japan-tells-china


  • #2535
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    Polar101 wrote: »
    I have a friend who is also going to observe the vaccine, which means watching Youtube videos about the dangers of vaccines, and then "independently" deciding the vaccine won't be safe. He also definitely knows people who got narcolepsy from the bird flu vaccine. Basically he is hoping some youtubers find problems with the vaccine, so he can tell others it's dangerous, and won't have to take it.

    This is just my experience - I'm in no way commenting on your personal circumstances, and of course everyone is free to make their own decisions.

    Haha you are commenting on just precisely that. I have watched ZERO youtube videos on it. You can rest at ease. You do what you want and I wish you the best. When I am ready I will do what I want. Thanks.


  • #2536
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,653 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    Yeah that is true about contact tracing. Comparing the two periods the number of 'non family' outbreaks is the same. If contact tracing wasn't operational during the new year then I'd expect the non family to be reduced also.

    What's clear from the chart is that when contact tracing (48 hours) is operational the bulk of outbreaks are classed as family. When it is not operational there are little to no 'family outbreaks' but there is no difference to the number of non family outbreaks.

    That suggests there's two types of contact tracing and during the school opening September / October most infections were linked to family outbreaks. Either way contact tracing hasn't been fit for purpose since the start.

    It's main objective is to break onward chains of infection. Yet regularly people have used it to state things like, 'people only get it in their home, look at the data' Incidentally they've also been able to say that 'little to no transmission occurs in schools' despite not actually contact tracing back to the likely source of infection.

    Our contact tracing is not fit for purpose - it can take average of 5 days from infection to onset of symptoms, yet for our contact tracing we only check previous 48hrs after testing positive. So there was never any way we would suppress the virus or find out the true chains of transmission.

    On the schools front, children & teachers are subject to special rules in regards contact tracing - if somebody in a packed class of 30 students tests positive, nobody in the class will be deemed a close contact, nor will they be able to avail of a test. Head in the sand stuff from the Dept who are adamant that schools are a safe environment.


  • #2537
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,270 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    is_that_so wrote: »
    An international incident over anal swabs?!


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/02/stop-doing-anal-covid-tests-on-our-citizens-japan-tells-china

    Getting their own back https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731


  • #2538
    agoodpunt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 541 ✭✭✭agoodpunt


    is_that_so wrote: »
    An international incident over anal swabs?!


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/02/stop-doing-anal-covid-tests-on-our-citizens-japan-tells-china


    its China's senkaku islands approach


    NPET are doing to us the same another way


  • #2539
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    is_that_so wrote: »
    An international incident over anal swabs?!


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/02/stop-doing-anal-covid-tests-on-our-citizens-japan-tells-china

    Wouldn’t like to be a Chinese athlete at the olympics this year, with a daily testing regime!!!


  • #2540
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    It's great to hear finally social media giants using their influence for some positive reasons, it's very unfortunate those type of people were ever given a platform, if they want to spread information that endangers lives they should have to do it on a private internet blog people deliberately search out and don't stumble across.
    https://twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1366685963846582284


  • #2541
    aidoh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 620 ✭✭✭aidoh


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Of course it isn't. To be absolutely clear: My specific issue with this group, based on the leaked emails, is the fact that they were able to get their propaganda pushed by the national broadcaster and disguised as organic, homegrown content. That's the issue. To give you an analogy, it would be a similar situation if RTE did a special talk show or investigation into the environmental dangers of meat consumption, and then we discovered that in fact, the content of those shows was authored and produced by an animal rights group who had a totally different agenda than the one RTE ostensibly had for airing the segment, and we were never told that this lobby group had written it. In other words, it was claimed to be about environmentalism, but in fact that aspect was a trojan horse to push an animal rights agenda by the back door.

    According to the leaks, this group's objective in running these segments on RTE was to scare and depress the public in order to manipulate us into supporting their zero COVID strategy and lobbying our politicians accordingly. Yet RTE aired the segments as if they were just lighthearted craic at best and a factual take on the future of living with COVID at worst.

    This kind of fundamental dishonesty simply cannot be allowed in my view. It's similar to the whole issue of Instagram influencers not declaring when a product they "just picked up and are so excited about!" turns out to be something they've been paid or given freebies in exchange for shilling.

    Bottom line is this. If a lobby group is being approached about writing and producing segments for supposedly "factual" television programmes aired by our national broadcaster, then either that fact must be disclosed to the public at the time of the segment's airing, or the national broadcaster is essentially abusing its trust-relationship with the public by disguising agenda-driven propaganda as neutral programming.

    Does this make more sense?

    Another analogy would be if they "just happened" to run a bunch of segments featuring interviews with recovering alcoholics and liver specialists around the subject of binge drinking, and it was subsequently leaked that they had been in direct contact with say AAI about running such a segment, and AAI were privately admitting in their own internal communication to using this platform in order to try and "trick" the public into supporting minimum pricing or earlier closing times.

    The issue isn't what was said, it's the fact that it was disguised as a random, organic segment that RTE came up with for the craic, when in fact we have it in black and white (assuming, again, that the emails are legitimate) that it formed part of a sustained campaign to manipulate public opinion into supporting a specified political ideology or objective.

    I don't think it's remotely controversial to suggest that being a publicly funded, public service broadcaster and engaging in this type of behaviour - for whatever reason - are mutually exclusive. If segments appearing on current affairs programmes are being written and directed by lobby groups - lobby groups which RTE is in regular direct contact with, apparently - then this must be disclosed openly and obviously to those viewing it. It should be watermarked into the beginnings of the segments as far as I'm concerned - just as I would have to publicly state for the record that the SuperDry hoodie I "just picked up" in the shops was in fact gifted to me by SuperDry on the provisio that I give them some free publicity in my Instagram story.

    Without such rules, public service broadcasting has an inherent deficit of trust. In my opinion, this incident should by rights severely damage RTE's credibility, and necessitate a very public statement from those in charge addressing it and, assuming the allegations are true, profusely apologising - not for airing the segment, but for not informing the public as to its true origins.

    Ironically, yesterday's broadcasting was filled with the dangers of misinformation on social media, peddled by "far-right" anti-vax., conspiracy theorists etc.

    I wouldn't hold your breath waiting on some transparency or even the most basic of journalistic integrity / objective reporting from the likes of RTÉ, let alone an apology!

    No wonder Trumpy got such traction with his Fake News shtick. It is often bloody fake!


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  • #2542
    OwenM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 860 ✭✭✭OwenM


    Cork2021 wrote: »
    This man is supposed to be smart, but is actually thick! All the zero covid loons, never follow up with any data etc!!

    https://twitter.com/astaines/status/1366491795316695048?s=21

    I reported that tweet as encouraging self harm.


  • #2543
    thebronze14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 769 ✭✭✭thebronze14


    timmyntc wrote: »
    Our contact tracing is not fit for purpose - it can take average of 5 days from infection to onset of symptoms, yet for our contact tracing we only check previous 48hrs after testing positive. So there was never any way we would suppress the virus or find out the true chains of transmission.

    On the schools front, children & teachers are subject to special rules in regards contact tracing - if somebody in a packed class of 30 students tests positive, nobody in the class will be deemed a close contact, nor will they be able to avail of a test. Head in the sand stuff from the Dept who are adamant that schools are a safe environment.

    I'm glad people seem to realise this now. If someone gets it in my class, my class and I carry on as normal. The 'pod' get sent home. Thankfully and touch wood this continues, noone in my class got it but if they did I couldn't really say the rest of the children are safe to the parents. Hopefully this has changed but I haven't seen anything to suggest this...In saying that roll on two weeks till we're back:cool:


  • #2544
    Galwayhurl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 275 ✭✭Galwayhurl


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Hospital cases now below 500, at 494 and ICU at 115.

    Super. Hopefully there'll be less than 400 in hospital by the end of the week.

    Things all around are looking up.


  • #2545
    Nermal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,850 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Gruffalux wrote: »
    What difference does it make to you if I am vaccine cautious?

    None, but refusing to take vaccines when simultaneously supporting restrictions on others is the height of hypocrisy.


  • #2546
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nermal wrote: »
    None, but refusing to take vaccines when simultaneously supporting restrictions on others is the height of hypocrisy.

    That’s a good point. How do those that won’t take a vaccine expect us to ever reopen?

    Basically they expect everyone else to take something that they themselves perceive as dangerous, so that they can get back to normal without taking one. Selfishness in the extreme


  • #2547
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    Nermal wrote: »
    None, but refusing to take vaccines when simultaneously supporting restrictions on others is the height of hypocrisy.

    Do not know where you got that but people do love an oul sniffy exclamation.
    When you are all vaccinated you can dance naked in the streets en masse and have orgies on the village greens for all I care.
    The restrictions post vaccine are not up to me. You may be surprised to find restrictions continue. I would be if I was you.
    What is called a vaccine is in reality a prophylactic treatment. You can still get and transmit covid post vaccine just as I can without vaccine.

    What are you going to do with all the child sized non vaccinated covid spreaders in your future? Not let them in the shops or on planes?

    I would have preferred no unpleasant endemia and no consequent need for an unending vista of new vaccines stretching out into the future but there you go.
    I will watch with interest. If the mrna jabs are good I will be delighted. The possibility of mrna treatment of malaria and MS is one of the best things to emerge from this whole dystopia - star trek level of incredible possibility. I am very open to being hugely impressed...when sufficient time has elapsed.
    Meabwhile you do what you choose for your body and I will do what I choose for mine. Thanks in advance.


  • #2548
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Nermal wrote: »
    None, but refusing to take vaccines when simultaneously supporting restrictions on others is the height of hypocrisy.
    No, it's just a different way of processing this to you and personal motivation is pretty irrelevant. Vaccination is voluntary and it's up to the government to convince enough to do so.


  • #2549
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    That’s a good point. How do those that won’t take a vaccine expect us to ever reopen?

    Basically they expect everyone else to take something that they themselves perceive as dangerous, so that they can get back to normal without taking one. Selfishness in the extreme

    I do not expect anyone to take the vaccine. At all. Au contraire you EXPECT me to take it. Open up when you have sufficient vaccination to feel secure. No problem.


  • #2550
    Deeper Blue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,500 ✭✭✭Deeper Blue


    How can anyone be "vaccine hesitant" at this stage? 250 million doses given out and no large scale serious side effects.

    I suspect vaccine hesitant = anti-vaxx in the majority of cases


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  • #2551
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Deeper Blue wrote: »
    How can anyone be "vaccine hesitant" at this stage? 250 million doses given out and no large scale serious side effects.

    I suspect vaccine hesitant = anti-vaxx in the majority of cases however
    That's really quite a leap. A number of people I know are either afraid of what it will do to them or they just want to wait. That's a health authority issue.


This discussion has been closed.
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