Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01

Locotastic · 27-02-2021 10:38PM

khalessi wrote: »

I have said twice where teachers should be perhaps you missed it.
Let me help all frontline workers should be done together

You want to be done at the same time as doctors and nurses who spend their days working with multiple at risk people and who without them there to treat people there would be many more deaths from all causes?

No, I don't agree. I don't agree that a teacher needs it more than an 85 year old or a person with a medical condition or who is immunocompromised, those who are at serious risk.

Sorry to burst your bubble but teachers are nowhere near doctors and nurses when it comes to being essential. Nor should they be prioritised over those who need it most.

Warbeastrior · 27-02-2021 10:45PM

Locotastic wrote:

Sorry to burst your bubble but teachers are nowhere near doctors and nurses when it comes to being essential. Nor should they be prioritised over those who need it most.

You can't say we're not essential and then scream for the schools to be opened again.

khalessi · 27-02-2021 10:46PM

Locotastic wrote: »

You want to be done at the same time as doctors and nurses who spend their days working with multiple at risk people and who without them there to treat people there would be many more deaths from all causes?

No, I don't agree. I don't agree that a teacher needs it more than an 85 year old or a person with a medical condition or who is immunocompromised, those who are at serious risk.

Sorry to burst your bubble but teachers are nowhere near doctors and nurses when it comes to being essential. Nor should they be prioritised over those who need it most.

No I moved us up since last time as point being no matter where we are certain peopple wont be happy as tbh they just have a problem with teachers. Going by MM's view we are frontline workers so why not do all frontline workers together HCW first and then the rest of the frontline workers?

Hopontop · 27-02-2021 10:46PM

Locotastic wrote: »

1. Adults aged ≥65 years who are residents of long-term care facilities
2. Frontline healthcare workers
3. People aged 70 and older
4. Aged 16-69 and at very high risk of severe COVID-19 disease
5. Aged 65-69 whose underlying condition puts them at a high risk of severe disease and death
6. People aged 65-69, other healthcare workers, and key vaccination programme workers
7. Aged 16-64 and at high risk of severe COVID-19 disease
8. Residents of long-term care facilities aged 18-64
9. Aged 18-64 years living working in crowded accommodation where self-isolation and social distancing is difficult to maintain
10. Key workers in essential jobs who cannot avoid a high risk of exposure to COVID-19
11. People essential to education and who face disease exposure

Out of interest what are the numbers in each category, they’re obviously done in order of priority but they seem like the numbers in each would be vastly different.
I’d personally prefer actually safety protocols (smaller classes, half in/half out on alternate days, proper ventilation etc) were put in place rather than vaccination at the moment.

am_zarathustra · 27-02-2021 10:49PM

Surely 9, 10 and 11 could be looked at with regards to who is more vital or less able to actually distance. Manufacturing can distance if they want (I assume number 9), it's expensive and inconvenient and the large meat producing factories don't want to damage their bottom line but it's possible. In primary it isn't. I'm a secondary school teacher, kids are masked and able to distance, I'm ok with not being moved but primary school teacher should be vacinnated along with people in factories being taken advantage of. I'm sure did you asked most parents of 7 year olds, would you rather your kids be back in school but you need to eat a bit less meat they'd be quick enough to answer. The government wants schools open but doesn't want to do anything to actually make that safe or protect it.

Locotastic · 27-02-2021 10:49PM

Warbeastrior wrote: »

You can't say we're not essential and then scream for the schools to be opened again.

I didn't say not essential but really, as essential as a doctor or nurse? It's altruistic to think that teachers should be given priority over some of the groups on that list.

One of the few thing the government may have got right is how the vaccine is distributed, and I'm glad to see they weren't pushed over by teachers unions because they know there would be very public backlash if they did.

khalessi · 27-02-2021 10:50PM

Locotastic wrote: »

I didn't say not essential but really, as essential as a doctor or nurse? It's altruistic to think that teachers should be given priority over some of the groups on that list.

One of the few thing the government may have got right is how the vaccine is distributed, and I'm glad to see they weren't pushed over by teachers unions because they know there would be very public backlash if they did.

Not altruistic, necessary.
If teachers were considered frontline workers from the beginning there would have been no issue as schools would not have closed.

Warbeastrior · 27-02-2021 10:54PM

Locotastic wrote:

I didn't say not essential but really, as essential as a doctor or nurse? It's altruistic to think that teachers should be given priority over some of the groups on that list.

But by the way ye are going on saying "Schools must open" means we are very essential.
Therefore, surely we need to be very high up the list for the vaccine in your eyes?

Now I have no problem waiting but we shouldn't have to work in an unsafe work environment if we are being made to wait.

Im a SNA, im on top of students trying to help them and multiple ones at that.

Locotastic · 27-02-2021 10:55PM

khalessi wrote: »

No I moved us up since last time as point being no matter where we are certain peopple wont be happy as tbh they just have a problem with teachers. Going by MM's view we are frontline workers so why not do all frontline workers together HCW first and then the rest of the frontline workers?

Well he had to say that so teachers could go to work during restrictions, thats what classifies you as being able to continue to go to work during certain restrictions.

It doesn't mean teachers are the most important or a priority. Do you realise how many 'frontline workers' there are?

It's a very wide range of industries, there's even a list (it's very long BTW) on the government website. Your talking everything from the postman to the shop employee, so you want all of these people to skip ahead of all the elderly and vulnerable since we're all frontline workers?

khalessi · 27-02-2021 11:04PM

Locotastic wrote: »

Well he had to say that so teachers could go to work during restrictions, thats what classifies you as being able to continue to go to work during certain restrictions.

It doesn't mean teachers are the most important or a priority. Do you realise how many 'frontline workers' there are?

It's a very wide range of industries, there's even a list (it's very long BTW) on the government website. Your talking everything from the postman to the shop employee, so you want all of these people to skip ahead of all the elderly and vulnerable since we're all frontline workers?

Oh I realise the list is very long and some of it is farcical. But teachers are a priority according to MM and he didnt say a long list but he did mention a few times that teachers were frontline workers. But sure maybe you are saying he is wrong.

Locotastic · 27-02-2021 11:06PM

khalessi wrote: »

Oh I realise the list is very long and some of it is farcical. But teachers are a priority according to MM and he didnt say a long list but he did mention a few times that teachers were frontline workers. But sure maybe you are saying he is wrong.

There's hundreds of thousands of frontline workers, teachers are one sector out of many.

Now do you think all frontline workers should be vaccinated before priority groups or is it just teachers that deserve this special treatment?

He emphasised that point to be clear that you were in the group of people who can still go to work, you are making it seem like he bestowed a special status just for teachers - it means nothing.

khalessi · 27-02-2021 11:10PM

Locotastic wrote: »

There's hundreds of thousands of frontline workers, teachers are one sector out of many.

Now do you think all frontline workers should be vaccinated before priority groups or is it just teachers that deserve this special treatment?

Ahh go on so if ya insist we will

thomasdylan · 27-02-2021 11:10PM

I just can't believe that some people here seem to think they should be moved ahead of those who have been shown to be more likely to die from Covid.

If school staff are vaccinated next I think some in high risk groups could die unnecessarily. That's what it boils down to.

khalessi · 27-02-2021 11:15PM

thomasdylan wrote: »

I just can't believe that some people here seem to think they should be moved ahead of those who have been shown to be more likely to die from Covid.

If school staff are vaccinated next I think some in high risk groups could die unnecessarily. That's what it boils down to.

What it boils down to, is that the Dept have done nothing to make schools safe this term, have not reneged on their budget cut of 40% on cleaning gear, and have done nothing to enhance safety, they havent even mamged to do a phased reopening properly.

I think teachers gardai and prison warders should be moved up the vaccine list, it is ridiculous that they are not.

Locotastic · 27-02-2021 11:17PM

thomasdylan wrote: »

I just can't believe that some people here seem to think they should be moved ahead of those who have been shown to be more likely to die from Covid.

If school staff are vaccinated next I think some in high risk groups could die unnecessarily. That's what it boils down to.

It is shocking, it shows nothing but a sense of conceited self importance.

I'm so glad that not all teachers think themselves to be more important than our most vulnerable. Most are happy to wait and can see the benefits for the entire country in doing it the way we are.

khalessi · 27-02-2021 11:19PM

Locotastic wrote: »

It is shocking, nothing but a sense of conceited self importance.

It is shocking!! It is shocking that knowing that children are going into buildings which have no enhanced safety measures you would object to teachers being vaccinated in order to ensure schools stay open. Appalling in fact. It is awful to think that teachers have called for safety measures to keep children safe and all ignored.

Locotastic · 27-02-2021 11:22PM

khalessi wrote: »

It is shocking!! It is shocking that knowing that children are going into buildings which have no enhanced safety measures you would object to teachers being vaccinated in order to ensure schools stay open. Appalling in fact. It is awful to think that teachers have called for safety measures to keep children safe and all ignored.

Teachers being vaccinated doesn't guarantee schools will stay open. You're forgetting about all of those students, most of which won't be vaccinated at all this year.

Maybe you only care about your own safety, I want the whole country to get through this so we can go back to normal, I've no problem waiting for my vaccine if it means someone who needs it more gets it first.

khalessi · 27-02-2021 11:23PM

Locotastic wrote: »

Teachers being vaccinated doesn't guarantee schools will stay open. Your forgetting about all of those students, most of which won't be vaccinated at all this year.

SHocking to think all the safety measures teachers called for to keep those students safe were ignored.

Locotastic · 27-02-2021 11:35PM

khalessi wrote: »

SHocking to think all the safety measures teachers called for to keep those students safe were ignored.

Do you know why they were ignored?

khalessi · 27-02-2021 11:36PM

Locotastic wrote: »

Maybe you only care about your own safety, I want the whole country to get through this so we can go back to normal, I've no problem waiting for my vaccine if it means someone who needs it more gets it first.

I can't have the injection

shtpEdthePlum · 27-02-2021 11:39PM

thomasdylan wrote: »

I just can't believe that some people here seem to think they should be moved ahead of those who have been shown to be more likely to die from Covid.

If school staff are vaccinated next I think some in high risk groups could die unnecessarily. That's what it boils down to.

Or school staff would be less likely to contact covid, spread it to others and die themselves?

Locotastic · 27-02-2021 11:44PM

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

Or school staff would be less likely to contact covid, spread it to others and die themselves?

The list of groups was not pulled out of nowhere, you can bet it was well thought out to cover those who needed it the most first.

To lessen serious illness and deaths and keep our health service afloat.

Teachers are where they should be on the list and obviously some of them will fall into earlier groups by default.

The bigger picture needs to be seen here, it's for everyone and I don't see anyone else demanding to overtake people who are correctly being prioritised.

Zaney · 27-02-2021 11:59PM

Can I ask those who want teachers pushed up the vaccine list how many of them know or have close contact, perhaps an immediate family member, with someone at high risk of severe Covid? Do they really want teachers or any other group of essential workers to be ahead of people at risk of severe Covid?

History Queen · 27-02-2021 11:59PM

Locotastic wrote: »

The bigger picture needs to be seen here, it's for everyone and I don't see anyone else demanding to overtake people who are correctly being prioritised.

There are calls for prison officers and prisoners to be moved up the list:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-tests-for-prisoners-and-officers-at-midlands-prison-1.4491143

This is an interesting article on other countries and their prioritisation schedule compared to ours:

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/covid-19-vaccination-who-gets-the-jab-first-in-different-countries-and-why-1.4475288

Warbeastrior · 28-02-2021 12:11AM

Thomas and locotastic say that it is shocking that teachers want to be vaccinated before they go back to an exposed school setting.

But you have absolutely no problem sending that school staff back into said environment with absolutely no protection.

Your hypocrisy speaks volumes.

Also, we are only calling to be vaccinated because people like ye are demanding schools be opened.
We'll happily wait our turn for the vaccine if we are allowed to continue to work remotely like thousands of other individuals.

Locotastic · 28-02-2021 01:06AM

Warbeastrior wrote: »

Thomas and locotastic say that it is shocking that teachers want to be vaccinated before they go back to an exposed school setting.

But you have absolutely no problem sending that school staff back into said environment with absolutely no protection.

Your hypocrisy speaks volumes.

Also, we are only calling to be vaccinated because people like ye are demanding schools be opened.
We'll happily wait our turn for the vaccine if we are allowed to continue to work remotely like thousands of other individuals.

Where did I demand for schools to be opened?

Hypocrisy, I don't think that means what you think it means.

Luckily you don't represent all teachers or even the majority of teachers, there are plenty very happy to get back to the workplace. Homeschooling isn't for everyone, teachers included.

astrofool · 28-02-2021 01:12AM

khalessi wrote: »

Teachers should not have to work a school year without vaccination, they should be move up. No they would need to be injected during holidays otherwise that is a second year without vaccination but move them up

Sure, but when the school year is finished, you're happy to move down the list so everyone else can get done, as long as its ensured you're vaccinated before the next school year starts, gotcha.

khalessi · 28-02-2021 01:17AM

astrofool wrote: »

Sure, but when the school year is finished, you're happy to move down the list so everyone else can get done, as long as its ensured you're vaccinated before the next school year starts, gotcha.

Nope that is not what I said

Let me help ya, teachers will end up according to the schedule being vaccinated in the holidays, they need to be moved up now. If not they still need to be vaccinated otherwise that is a second school year they are facing without vaccination.

Regarding dropping down not acceptable, interesting you are happy to move teachers down not up, anti teacher bias anyone?

political analyst · 28-02-2021 01:20AM

The following article is from last December.

https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2020/1213/1184196-teacher-covid-warning/

This teacher is unable to do her job at the moment because she has cystic fibrosis (CF). Given that a teacher's work often involves close contact with pupils and that the flu and even the common cold are probably much worse for people with CF than for other people, how is a person with CF able to work as a teacher?

frank8211 · 28-02-2021 01:20AM

Locotastic wrote: »

It is shocking, it shows nothing but a sense of conceited self importance.

I'm so glad that not all teachers think themselves to be more important than our most vulnerable. Most are happy to wait and can see the benefits for the entire country in doing it the way we are.

Thats fine unless theyre roaring for schools to be reopned with none of the precautions taken for , say, supermarket workers

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

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Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01