Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

caveat emptor wrote: »

To clarify.

There is no border with Northern Ireland (I went and checked) not so much as a "paper's please"

There is no border between Northern Ireland and the island of great Britain. I(I have not checked this personally although I have it on good authority) also they are the same country.

There is no border between the republic of Ireland and great Britain. Common travel area. (I've personally checked this for everyones benefit)


Those imaginary borders have been temporary fixes that have served all communities well.

The pandemic and Brexit have just brought it into sharp focus and in particular how unworkable the whole thing is in that context. It's a route cause problem and until there is agreement by all sides it'll never be fixed.

Nowhere near being sorted for a long time.

Reminds me of this......



https://twitter.com/SJAMcBride/status/1365313127408144388?s=20

All Brexit has done has made the UK look like this to Northern ireland:



And Ireland like this:

Sanjuro wrote: »

Just in relation to ZC and it’s proponents. Was talking to the wife this morning about a certain Trinity-based ZC proponent who keeps getting wheeled out in front of the media. She works in Trinity and comes from a Neuroscience background, so she’d have a few friends in the department. Word on campus is Trinity are incredibly unhappy about how this person keeps using the Trinity name to peddle nonsense. Like, exploring options unhappy.

Edit: I seemed to have thumbed down my own comment and dunno how to fix that.

Don’t see how that is relevant or indicates what he is saying is wrong.

jackboy wrote: »

Don’t see how that is relevant or indicates what he is saying is wrong.

I think the point is that there's nothing in his background or education relating to biochemistry, immunology, or public health and the actual Professors in his department all have dismissed the ability of zero covid to work and how vaccines are the way out(full Professors rather than TCD's associate professors, who are called Lecturers in every other university).

It really can't help his arguments, even aside from his lack of expertise in the area, when prominent members of that zero covid crowd have been downplaying the efficacy of vaccines in recent weeks, which is a very dangerous, very disingenuous argument to be making that flies in the face of pretty much all the actual research done by biochemists and immunologists on the vaccine, as well as the emerging evidence not just from Israel, but in what we are seeing in nursing homes and hospital infections. I've seen no attempt by them to distance themselves from statements by Killeen regarding vaccinations, and that alone makes me incredibly sceptical of both the level of scientific rigour they've applied to the zero covid argument, and to the actual plan they would have to implement a zero covid policy.

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Great to see the hospital cases

We might even beat NPHET's revised prediction of 500-600 by the end of the month even though discharges are less at weekends

What was the original prediction?

jackboy wrote: »

The possibility of a variant emerging that the vaccines are significantly less effective against is real. I have never heard any scientists or experts disagreeing with that. So, Ryan and Killeen are right about that and right to highlight it.

In the long run we may or may not detect such variants but for now it is an unknown which could have devastating implications if it came to pass.

There is this possibility with every vaccine, and yes these potential issues have been mentioned by other scientists too. However, downplaying vaccines, which do work and work with the current variants is both foolish and irresponsible, especially when we are in the early stages of the vaccine roll-out and need very broad public takeup of the vaccines.

I am not a biochemist, nor am I an immunologist, so I'm never sure whether my attitude is down to a personal antipathy towards both Killeen and Ryan, or based on the lack of any depth to their arguments. However, my partner is a senior biochemist in an institute that is heavily working on vaccines, and when her and her colleagues are also appalled by some of the statements by these guys I think I'm probably not far off the mark.

jackboy wrote: »

The possibility of a variant emerging that the vaccines are significantly less effective against is real. I have never heard any scientists or experts disagreeing with that. So, Ryan and Killeen are right about that and right to highlight it.

In the long run we may or may not detect such variants but for now it is an unknown which could have devastating implications if it came to pass.

It’s actually not as real as you’re claiming. Not at all in fact if you follow the science and all relevant data. They’re just minor differences in the virus ‘photocopy’ of itself if you like. This variant coverage is just about scaring and misleading. Yes variants exist but Coronaviruses do not mutate even at the same rate as flu according to the actual Science.

CruelSummer wrote: »

It’s actually not as real as you’re claiming. Not at all in fact if you follow the science and all relevant data. They’re just minor differences in the virus ‘photocopy’ of itself if you like. This variant coverage is just about scaring and misleading. Yes variants exist but Coronaviruses do not mutate even at the same rate as flu according to the actual Science.

What do you mean by ‘not as real’. It’s either real or not.

CruelSummer wrote: »

Yes variants exist but Coronaviruses do not mutate even at the same rate as flu according to the actual Science.

I've read this also. Nearly all of the variants that are being mentioned have the E484 mutation from SA. So to my unscientific eye the majority are quite similar.

jackboy wrote: »

That is fine. The thing that annoys me is that nearly all the criticism of Ryan and Killeen’s opinions are just personal insults rather than an attempt to explain why they are wrong.

Also, they are clearly strongly pro vaccine despite their detractors efforts to paint them as otherwise.

Actually the science and the real data indicates the vaccines are working including on the Irish dominant strain.

It is also the case that the vaccines can be tweaked and administered as boosters if variants dictate.

The issue many people have now with the ZC “scientists” is that they are undermining the efficacy of vaccines to promote their primary aim. That is the part that has a lot in the scientific community annoyed.

That is why real heavy weights like Lambert and O’Neill are being super positive on vaccines and not promoting the narrative around travel.

snotboogie wrote: »

McConkey has crossed the line or pretty close to it on vaccines a few times, in that he is risking damaging public confidence in the rollout. He took a stance that there wouldn't be a vaccine anytime soon last year and is now taking the most pessimistic view possible of them every time he is asked. The Matt Cooper interview during the week really springs to mind. The public need to have some belief that there is a point in taking a vaccine if the rollout is to be successful. As a proclaimed expert on the topic he is doing more harm than good at the moment.

Killeen is also taking a very pessimistic view on vaccines but isn't as extreme as McConkey, I don't think he has crossed the line in damaging the public confidence in the same way Sam has. Ryan is a very sensible voice, he states his reasoning clearly and I think he has a far more balanced take on vaccination than his two colleagues. Even if one disagrees with him, he is clearly not an unreasonable voice the same way McConkey is.

Ryan went on PT after the extension of level 5 to describe the situation with the variants is a new pandemic. This is not reasonable.

If two people are talking to each other outside in cold or wet weather and they're not wearing masks and they're only 1 metre apart, the very low temperature or the rain will make particles coming from one person's mouth or nose less likely to reach the other person, right? I'm just going by what Dr Hilary Jones said on Good Morning Britain last year in the context of the British government's campaign to recruit for the picking of fruit on large farms.

Deleted User wrote: »

They’re not. They have blood on their hands for damaging public confidence in the vaccine. My gran will not now take the vaccine after Staines and McConkey on Matt Cooper this week said that they would not work. No matter how much I try to refute what they said, she will not be having it

These people need to understand that a certain cohort of society take what they say as gospel. They have an obligation to be careful in what they say, and they do not observe that obligation. The way that they present their views, which are not without merit (some of the time) spreads fear amongst our vulnerable and will compromise out way out of this

They are reckless with their words

You are completely misrepresenting their opinions.