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Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

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  • #1022
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,086 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Cork2021 wrote: »
    Look at this crap again from Ryan! gript(only found out it existed 2 days ago) which I think are off the wall could possibly be onto this! Nothing coming from the zero covid nuts to defend themselves.. I don’t know! But it’s seriously believable now!

    https://twitter.com/eoinneylon/status/1364875153868550144?s=21

    I have little time for the government but Ryan's predictions will be baseless as long as supply holds up

    The government need to get the vaccine roll out right


  • #1023
    Sanjuro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Sanjuro


    gmisk wrote: »
    Sarah McInerney is co host of a prime drive time slot no?
    She should have 100 percent got the slot given to Claire Byrne I will concede that.

    I do miss Vincent Browne though.

    Yeah, the Claire Byrne thing is pretty much what I'm basing that bit on! :pac:


  • #1024
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,541 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Cork2021 wrote: »
    Look at this crap again from Ryan! gript(only found out it existed 2 days ago) which I think are off the wall could possibly be onto this! Nothing coming from the zero covid nuts to defend themselves.. I don’t know! But it’s seriously believable now!

    https://twitter.com/eoinneylon/status/1364875153868550144?s=21

    Michael Martin said they hope 40% of all adults by end of April, Ryan says it's unrealistic to have half the population by end of April. Nobody has said they expect half the population done by the end of April.
    It's all in the article, shoddy journalism for sure.
    These ****ers should be called out and fact checked at every opportunity.


  • #1025
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,650 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Sanjuro wrote: »
    Yeah, the Claire Byrne thing is pretty much what I'm basing that bit on! :pac:
    I agree she would have been much better in that slot.
    But she still has a prominent time slot all be it as a co-host.


  • #1026
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    With all due respect, you are neither qualified nor have the information to credibly make that call. Aside from the first few weeks back in last March/April, you've been consistently calling for loosening of the restrictions.

    The best way to get other services back is to reduce the covid burden on the health system, yet over half of the permanent ICU beds we have are filled with covid patients. Your proposal is to relax now, what do you think will happen then? What will the consequences be? It would hardly be further strain on the health system putting back access to services that you profess to care about?

    Nope, I only started questioning things when the Roadmap to Easing Restrictions was announced in mid May 2020 and I noticed that after willingly enduring and supporting the longest and strictest lockdown in Europe, we also had the longest roadmap to reopen things.
    It made me wonder why it was safe to go for a pint, get a haircut, or buy some non essential retail items in Italy (the European ground zero of covid) in May, when I couldn’t even get my dog groomed or walk more than 2km from my house here.
    The cases were negligible and dropping by the day, and we threw away our best chance of giving people and the economy a little bit of breathing space before the winter surge.
    We had no break here, our roadmap was so long that a lot of industries were barely open a few weeks before they were shut again and that’s how people became desensitised and fatigued from it all.

    We’ve had the longest and strictest lockdown in Europe, yet we also have the most nursing home deaths per capita.
    That alone should have people questioning if this monumental sacrifice we are all making is actually protecting the vulnerable and elderly, because it doesn’t seem to be saving their lives or stopping them from contracting the virus.

    I agree that I have consistently criticised the governments response, but that’s because the government have continuously moved the goalposts.
    It went from flattening the curve, to protecting the hospitals, to ‘having a meaningful Christmas’, to waiting for the vaccine, to waiting for the vaccine to be rolled out to the majority of citizens, to current rumours of going for zero covid.
    All the while the boarders are wide open and we’re importing new strains by the day, because enforcing quarantine on incoming travellers would be ‘too harsh’.

    Smear tests in GP clinics have absolutely nothing to do with ICU beds. Neither do mammograms or colonoscopies.
    These screenings should never have been cancelled for as long as they were, and there is no justification for that. The backlog this has caused will account for many avoidable deaths in the future. This should be a huge cause of concern for everyone.

    And while I appreciate the due respect, I am just as entitled to have an opinion and share it here as you are.


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  • #1027
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    Michael Martin said they hope 40% of all adults by end of April, Ryan says it's unrealistic to have half the population by end of April. Nobody has said they expect half the population done by the end of April.
    It's all in the article, shoddy journalism for sure.
    These ****ers should be called out and fact checked at every opportunity.
    Ryan is the same guy who suggested that Christmas could be delayed by a month to keep cases down.

    He's a loon. They need to stop putting him on air.


  • #1028
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,772 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    seamus wrote: »
    Ryan is the same guy who suggested that Christmas could be delayed by a month to keep cases down.

    He's a loon. They need to stop putting him on air.

    He's giving them what they want

    RTE acting like it's a private sector media operator


  • #1029
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    What are you illustrating there raind, particularly in reference to my question?

    (But are they falling at the same rate as before the new dominant variant?

    Does this not point to the issue we are going to soon have with the education sector going back, and with the higher transmissibility?)

    It points to a sustained fall in transmission contributing to a sustained fall in hospitalisations which will translate to a sustained fall in ICU numbers.

    Should the return to schools result in the fall in transmission halting, in a few weeks the hospitalisation and ICU numbers will stabilise at a lower level. The vaccines will drive this even lower as vulnerable populations get their vaccines.

    Should transmission start to increase slowly, in a few weeks enough of the vulnerable should be vaccinated to ensure that at worst we will be looking at stable hospital numbers

    Should a rapid resurgence emerge, which should not be the case given its only a portion of the measures that are being lifted, we will have both time to reverse course, and significant numbers of the most vulnerable protected through vaccination.

    There is also the rates of infection among healthcare workers and hospital infections in general to consider - these have dropped to a very low level over the past few weeks as vaccines have rolled out. Throughout the pandemic healthcare workers have almost served as a reservoir for the virus as it is almost impossible to avoid them being exposed in healthcare settings. These have then seeded new community outbreaks as all have their own families and live in the community. No fault of anyone, its just one of the unavoidable sources. However, now that vaccination is nearing completion in this group, this should play into the overall R number and perhaps may counter much of the impact of the increased transmissibility of the virus


  • #1030
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 543 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    seamus wrote: »
    Ryan is the same guy who suggested that Christmas could be delayed by a month to keep cases down.

    He's a loon. They need to stop putting him on air.

    Why does he even get airtime to begin with? He's a neuroscientist. A quick look on his Google Scholar page shows not a single paper in any way connected to virology.


  • #1031
    TheDoctor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,980 ✭✭✭TheDoctor


    Luke O'Neill seems to be the only one getting air time that is giving out positive vibes these days.

    While I dont fully agree with the way he goes on, its a refreshing balance to the constant negativity.


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  • #1032
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,702 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    TheDoctor wrote: »
    Luke O'Neill seems to be the only one getting air time that is giving out positive vibes these days.

    While I dont fully agree with the way he goes on, its a refreshing balance to the constant negativity.

    Hat tip to Kingston Mills too. He’s very much on Planet Reality when it comes to it with no agenda and you can tell he does his homework before he goes on air


  • #1033
    Azatadine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭Azatadine


    Yes, Kingston Mills is my go-to.

    From day 1.


  • #1034
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It points to a sustained fall in transmission contributing to a sustained fall in hospitalisations which will translate to a sustained fall in ICU numbers.

    Should the return to schools result in the fall in transmission halting, in a few weeks the hospitalisation and ICU numbers will stabilise at a lower level. The vaccines will drive this even lower as vulnerable populations get their vaccines.

    Should transmission start to increase slowly, in a few weeks enough of the vulnerable should be vaccinated to ensure that at worst we will be looking at stable hospital numbers

    Should a rapid resurgence emerge, which should not be the case given its only a portion of the measures that are being lifted, we will have both time to reverse course, and significant numbers of the most vulnerable protected through vaccination.

    There is also the rates of infection among healthcare workers and hospital infections in general to consider - these have dropped to a very low level over the past few weeks as vaccines have rolled out. Throughout the pandemic healthcare workers have almost served as a reservoir for the virus as it is almost impossible to avoid them being exposed in healthcare settings. These have then seeded new community outbreaks as all have their own families and live in the community. No fault of anyone, its just one of the unavoidable sources. However, now that vaccination is nearing completion in this group, this should play into the overall R number and perhaps may counter much of the impact of the increased transmissibility of the virus

    I hope your projections bear out. But who is getting vaccinated in the wider population, especially those connected to the education sector? I don't understand how vaccines will help here when they're not available yet to most of us.

    The question that came to mind, is many (most?) people in the education sector will be long waiting for a vaccine yet, so how do they have protection as schools reopen, and in turn the wider community they are a part of, most of whom are not yet vaccinated?

    ICU numbers are just one part of this. Preventing serious illness is surely as important, and the knock on effect of those with serious side effects will also have on our healthcare resources and impact many people's quality of life.


  • #1035
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Everybody over 60 in Israel and the UAE are fully vaccinated a good long time now. Still quite a few deaths being reported though,nothing too high but more than you'd think with all the elderly safe and out of the picture, I wonder is it because populations in both countries became very relaxed after the elderly were vaccinated and it's kind of ripping through the rest of the population now..maybe the Irish government actually have good reason for waiting until most of the population is vaccinated, not just the most elderly, before dropping restrictions?


  • #1036
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭plodder


    Hardyn wrote: »
    Why does he even get airtime to begin with? He's a neurologist. A quick look on his Google Scholar page shows not a single paper in any way connected to virology.
    He has a PhD in Neuroscience but he's not a neurologist as he isn't a medical doctor.

    “Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt” - Carl Jung



  • #1037
    Cork2021
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭Cork2021


    Am I reading this right? An RTE journalist tweeting this and then Prime Times Mark Coughlan retweeting it!! Has the penny dropped??

    https://twitter.com/edmundheaphy/status/1364644094664986627?s=21


  • #1038
    Cork2021
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭Cork2021


    What a condescending prick! No positivity aloud!!

    https://twitter.com/astaines/status/1364898134187520002?s=21


  • #1039
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 543 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    plodder wrote: »
    He has a PhD in Neuroscience but he's not a neurologist as he isn't a medical doctor.

    My bad I meant Neuroscientist.


  • #1040
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,057 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    NPHET's letter from the 18th of February states the best estimate of the R number is 0.65-0.85. Is there more recent data contradicting that, or has Staines taken the upper end of range and whacked on an extra 0.05 to round it up to 0.9?

    I'd assume the latter. Surprise he didn't say its higher than that even


  • #1041
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    I hope your projections bear out. But who is getting vaccinated in the wider population, especially those connected to the education sector? I don't understand how vaccines will help here when they're not available yet to most of us.

    The question that came to mind, is many (most?) people in the education sector will be long waiting for a vaccine yet, so how do they have protection as schools reopen, and in turn the wider community they are a part of, most of whom are not yet vaccinated?

    ICU numbers are just one part of this. Preventing serious illness is surely as important, and the knock on effect of those with serious side effects will also have on our healthcare resources and impact many people's quality of life.

    The people most impacted, after healthcare workers, will be the first vaccinated. We would not have a lockdown if this virus only impacted otherwise healthy people under the age of 65


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  • #1042
    Le Bruise
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Le Bruise


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    NPHET's letter from the 18th of February states the best estimate of the R number is 0.65-0.85. Is there more recent data contradicting that, or has Staines taken the upper end of range and whacked on an extra 0.05 to round it up to 0.9?

    He'll do whatever suits his stupid agenda.


  • #1043
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The people most impacted, after healthcare workers, will be the first vaccinated. We would not have a lockdown if this vaccine only impacted otherwise healthy people under the age of 65

    But my point isn't that we should still have a lockdown once that age / vulnerability category is looked after. My point is mainly one of safety, and the lack of it in the education sector. Which impacts us all.

    Can you really say what this new variant will do amongst the "healthy" population and the impact on the HSE once given the chance to spread in conditions where loads of pupils and staff are together for hours in a small room, many of them unmasked? Parents congregating too. Look at the spread in the past weeks and the difficulty in bringing the numbers down, before this mixing is even allowed.


  • #1044
    Tork
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭Tork


    seamus wrote: »
    Ryan is the same guy who suggested that Christmas could be delayed by a month to keep cases down.

    He's a loon. They need to stop putting him on air.

    I wouldn't call Tomás Ryan a loon but he seems to have the same mindset as many consultants or academics. I think we've all met the type - people who are very focused and knowledgeable in certain areas but can barely hold a normal conversation or tie their shoelaces. Some of them, I'm convinced, are on the spectrum. While some of what he has to say makes sense on paper, he never comes across as somebody who understands how real life works. It's the government's job to balance the (unrealistic?) medical advice that's being given with the reality of how things really work.


  • #1045
    mloc123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,445 ✭✭✭mloc123


    Cork2021 wrote: »
    What a condescending prick! No positivity aloud!!

    https://twitter.com/astaines/status/1364898134187520002?s=21

    The funny thing about zero covid now is... likely we would need to remain in the current level of lockdown for another 3 months to get to a starting point... but we expect vaccines rollout to be at almost 80% by then anyway?

    They are gonna need another bandwagon to jump on to soon


  • #1046
    wadacrack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,172 ✭✭✭wadacrack


    Tork wrote: »
    I wouldn't call Tomás Ryan a loon but he seems to have the same mindset as many consultants or academics. I think we've all met the type - people who are very focused and knowledgeable in certain areas but can barely hold a normal conversation or tie their shoelaces. Some of them, I'm convinced, are on the spectrum. While some of what he has to say makes sense on paper, he never comes across as somebody who understands how real life works. It's the government's job to balance the (unrealistic?) medical advice that's being given with the reality of how things really work.

    He is very knowledgeable on this topic and has mainly been right tbh. Can see why him and McKonkey are hated by many. Seem to lack the emotional intelligence at times with the way they communicate their messaging compared to say Luke O'Neill.


  • #1047
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,244 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    But my point isn't that we should still have a lockdown once that age / vulnerability category is looked after. My point is mainly one of safety, and the lack of it in the education sector. Which impacts us all.

    Can you really say what this new variant will do amongst the "healthy" population and the impact on the HSE once given the chance to spread in conditions where loads of pupils and staff are together for hours in a small room, many of them unmasked? Parents congregating too. Look at the spread in the past weeks and the difficulty in bringing the numbers down, before this mixing is even allowed.

    The numbers have continued to trend down, even when the resumption of close contact testing resumed.

    If you are under 65 and don't have a serious underlying condition then there is very little risk. Those are the facts and even NPHET, who are uber conservative, have said there is no issue with school's reopening.

    The only other alternative is to lock everyone away until July when we may have 80% vaccinated to some degree and that's just not a workable solution.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #1048
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,244 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    wadacrack wrote: »
    He is very knowledgeable on this topic and has mainly been right tbh. Can see why him and McKonkey are hated by many. Seem to lack the emotional intelligence at times with the way they communicate their messaging compared to say Luke O'Neill.

    Mainly right?
    This is the same Ryan that was talking about hundreds of children dieing only late last year.
    As Eamonn Dumphy would say "he's a spoofer, Bill".

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #1049
    mloc123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,445 ✭✭✭mloc123


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    They also seem to lack a grasp of reality compared to Luke O'Neill.

    All these guys must be pissed everytime they see O'Neill pop up on some light entertainment show on RTE/TV3


  • #1050
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,171 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    In many cases there were NO close contacts identified. None in the "pod" (what a joke those are). Or maybe they did identify the pod as close contacts, but not the children sitting as close or closer in other pods. And not the SEN teacher that has been there working closely with the student(s). The teachers almost never being classed as close contact.

    I think the reason for the different definition of a close contact in the education sector, is due to the shortage of subs, and the chaos that would follow from so many teachers and students having to quarantine and test.

    So that leaves us with policy and decisions in a huge sector that is borne out of underfunding and resourcing, instead of implementing the best and safest policy we can and according to all the health bodies. Sickening tbh.

    I know as a teacher you're very worried about going back.

    Would you not just take the decision to not go back?

    You're convinced it's too dangerous so maybe take the decision yourself.


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  • #1051
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭plodder


    wadacrack wrote: »
    He is very knowledgeable on this topic and has mainly been right tbh. Can see why him and McKonkey are hated by many. Seem to lack the emotional intelligence at times with the way they communicate their messaging compared to say Luke O'Neill.
    The problem is the areas that they don't have expertise in - eg. the politics and practicalities of closing borders and sealing off the island. If they actually stuck to what they do know, then there might not be the same problem with them.

    “Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt” - Carl Jung



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