Is safety/competency course required for first rifle licence

s00bf06e · 23-02-2021 5:35pm #1

Hi,

I have owned and hunted with shotguns for over 20 years and I would consider myself very safe. I am now considering getting a rifle for foxes (.223) for the first time. I have never used rifles much in the past and never had a licence. My question is do I have to do a separate safety course for a rifle or is the fact I have been a shotgun owner for over 20years and never had any accidents/issues enough to get the licence along with my gun club membership?

Cass · 23-02-2021 6:20pm

You should be fine.

A safety course is one of four ways to prove competence, and remember you only have to prove competence, not proficiency. So the 20 years of firearm handling/safety you have shown with the shotgun should suffice.

The four ways to prove competence are:

Safety course
Letter(s) of attestation from other gun owners
Previous experience with firearms (job, etc)
Having a training license prior to seeking full license

Quite frankly, and its only my opinion, in section 2.5 "Proof of Competence" i'd leave it blank. If they ask for proof of competence in a follow up say you are a firearm owner for 20 years.

BattleCorp · 23-02-2021 6:22pm

You've already held a shotgun licence for many years, the Gardai won't require you to do a safety course to licence a rifle.

Just fill in on the application form in the section about competence (Section 2.5) that you've been a licenced firearm owner for over 20 years.

Edit. Cass beat me by about 80 seconds.

cookimonster · 23-02-2021 6:58pm

I would be inclined to agree with the last two posts, but....

If you read over the paragraph from the Commissioners Guidelines it could be interpreted in both ways:

(b)
Proof of competence in the use of the firearm or ammunition which is subject of the application - depending on the circumstances of each case, an individual who has already possessed a certificate (without any convictions under the Firearms Act, 1925-2009) for a period of a minimum of 1 year may be considered to have fulfilled the proof of competency. First time applicants for firearms certificates may demonstrate that they have acquired a degree of competency in the use of firearms by satisfying the issuing person of having attended a firearms training course, or of having joined an authorised rifle or pistol club or range for the purpose of gaining competency in firearms use, or having previously been granted a firearms training certificate.

An issuing person tasked with considering whether or not to grant a firearms certificate to an individual, must be satisfied that public safety is never compromised when making these decisions. Issuing persons should however bear in mind that the Act only requires proof of competency. Proof of proficiency in using a firearm, such as expertise in target shooting etc, is not necessary when considering proof of competence.

I draw your attention to the under lined section, I would say this could be interpreted to mean that they would differentiate between shotguns, rifles and pistols.

Now to throw another spanner in the works I can vouch for the contradictory guidance in the latter half of the paragraph -

First time applicants for firearms certificates may demonstrate that they have acquired a degree of competency in the use of firearms by satisfying the issuing person of having attended a firearms training course, or of having joined an authorised rifle or pistol club or range for the purpose of gaining competency in firearms use, or having previously been granted a firearms training certificate.

In various capacities I have dealt on behalf of serving members of the Defence Forces - soldiers in a generic name, both junior and long serving in various firearms application forms. Many of whom have been asked to furnish a certificate of confidence. Remember we as applicants declare our occupation on the forms and as serving members we are all small arms qualified.... go figure the logic of it all.

Cass · 23-02-2021 8:47pm

cookimonster wrote: »

If you read over the paragraph from the Commissioners Guidelines it could be interpreted in both ways:

Good point.

meathstevie · 23-02-2021 9:56pm

From a practical point of view I’d be inclined to write down something down the lines of: “Over twenty years of incident free firearms ownership and use.”

If the Gardai require anything more of you I’m quite sure they’ll tell you.

Wadi14 · 24-02-2021 1:46am

cookimonster wrote: »

In various capacities I have dealt on behalf of serving members of the Defence Forces - soldiers in a generic name, both junior and long serving in various firearms application forms. Many of whom have been asked to furnish a certificate of confidence. Remember we as applicants declare our occupation on the forms and as serving members we are all small arms qualified.... go figure the logic of it all.

That reminds me of a couple of occasions, one a few years back and one a long time ago when licensing firearms, My background like yourself Defence Forces (Army) retired. 31yrs service.
Hadn't shot in civie life for years and had given up my firearm, went to my local FO when I retired to apply for a 22, He wouldn't send in my application to the Super with out me showing competency. After informing him of my DF qualifications and that I could run a competency course never mind take one he relented.

First time was back in the 80s had applied for my then first .22 rifle, back in those days the local Sgt granted the license, ahhh the good old days lol. Hadn't heard about the license for donkeys so one day I was on and Army/Garda patrol and we had gone back to the Garda station for a break, I asked was the Sgt about and he shouted for me to come up to his office, so I took my opportunity lol, full combat uniform, flack jacket, 100 rounds of 9mm and a Gustaf sub machine gun, I walked into his office and set the sub machine gun on his desk, and asked any word on that .22 license, I left with it in my combat jacket pocket:D

cookimonster · 24-02-2021 2:12am

Brilliant!

Wadi14 wrote: »

.......back in those days the local Sgt granted the license, ahhh the good old days lol.....

Ahh back in the day...... the old green licence ..... any changes were done with a quick stroke and scribble of the standard issued Bic pen.... no bother.

And don't forget the half arsed station stamped receipt you'd get off the lad at the desk when you paid the fee and the Sgt wasn't there to issue you the licence. Renewals date in August if memory serves me right.

s00bf06e · 24-02-2021 2:12pm

Great thanks for the info guys. Just need to find a nice .223 kit that won't break the bank now.

JP22 · 24-02-2021 2:27pm

Wadi14 wrote: »

.......My background like yourself Defence Forces (Army) retired. 31yrs service.

First time was back in the 80s had applied for my then first .22 rifle, back in those days the local Sgt granted the license, ahhh the good old days lol. Hadn't heard about the license for donkeys so one day I was on and Army/Garda patrol and we had gone back to the Garda station for a break, I asked was the Sgt about and he shouted for me to come up to his office, so I took my opportunity lol, full combat uniform, flack jacket, 100 rounds of 9mm and a Gustaf sub machine gun, I walked into his office and set the sub machine gun on his desk, and asked any word on that .22 license, I left with it in my combat jacket pocket:D

Same as yourself Wadi.

Those were the good old days when the Stn Sgt issued the licenses. Stn Sgt was basically the boss back then.

Grizzly 45 · 24-02-2021 2:41pm

cookimonster wrote: »

. Renewals date in August if memory serves me right.

July 31st...See it usually about the 1st week in December as that was the backlog between all other policing duties,around me.
But carry on you're grand! We know you are licensed as you paid us!....Simpler times.:D:D

BattleCorp · 24-02-2021 11:53pm

My Dad would never pay the licence fee on time. And I mean never. So once a year my mother would be absolutely shamed in front of the neighbours because the Gardai would call to the house to remind my Dad to pay the licence.

Imagine the shame of having a squad car outside of your house in the late 70's, or early 80's. Jezus, what'll the neighbours think.

:D:D

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Is safety/competency course required for first rifle licence

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