The last smoke in Amsterdam

doublejobbing 2 · 21-02-2021 8:34pm #1

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55765554

What says you?

On one hand, locals should probably have a right to have a say in how their city is run. On the other hand, if you don't want to deal with rowdy tourists, you probably shouldn't have bought/ rented a property slap bang in the middle of Amsterdam in the first place. Like gobshiets who rent in Temple Bar and complain about noise, or **** who buy next to Croke Park and think they have a right to say how many concerts should happen there (none would be their preference), or entitled coonts who seem to think Marley/ Phoenix Park is solely for the use of those who live beside it, local busybodies who buy somewhere like this deserve nothing but contempt.

I also by default generally take a dim personal view of Covid being the time to reflect on how things should be forever going forward. It certainly does little to abate anybody conspiracy minded about aspects of it. I don't know if the Dutch Green party are as insufferable and useless as ours, but I'll hazard a guess that they are (funnily enough the Irish Greens are also advocates of trying to ruin Dublin under the guise of "the new normal")

Funny thing is, this sort of thing, that the Dutch were on the brink of calling time on weed and hookers, has been on the cards for 20 odd years. It was in the pipeline when I first went there circa 2005. I returned early last year for the first time and it has dramatically changed since my first visit. You pretty much couldn't walk more than a few minutes without black/ Arab street dealers offering coke/ yokes, I saw absolutely none of this going on this time around. The Red Light district I saw in early 2020 wasn't a fraction as big as it seemed to be 15 years prior. Amsterdam is less seedy than it was years ago, so it's a strange time to float this seeing as it already has cleaned up its act.

So, will they see this through, or is it kite flying that will never be seen through, designed to make the cafes take more responsibility for the types they attract?

Tomrota · 22-02-2021 11:54am

If I were living in amsterdam, I’d far rather tourists be smoking weed than anything else. They’re just gonna wanna relax, laugh and want food (boosting the economy).

If they consume alcohol, there will be anti-social behaviour coupled with the lowering of inhibitions and the desire to take harder drugs.

I think it’s really stupid banning tourists from coffeeshops. Plus, it’s not even gonna work. It’s too far gone at this stage.

FileNotFound · 22-02-2021 11:57am

Tomrota wrote: »

If I were living in amsterdam, I’d far rather tourists be smoking weed than anything else. They’re just gonna wanna relax, laugh and want food (boosting the economy).

If they consume alcohol, there will be anti-social behaviour coupled with the lowering of inhibitions and the desire to take harder drugs.

I think it’s really stupid banning tourists from coffeeshops. Plus, it’s not even gonna work. It’s too far gone at this stage.

I've heard this loads of times, always falls down on the basis that it will drive up illegal drug trade.

I would agree a few stoners are preferential to a load of drunk people.

Also coffee shops in general flout most rules so i'd imagine they would do the same with this.

22-02-2021 12:03pm

If it was a few stoners it'd be one thing. I was there 8 years ago and with the stags and street dealers everywhere the atmosphere wasn't like a Snoop Dogg video at all. It was messy and had a bit of threat hanging in the air.

Cienciano · 22-02-2021 12:47pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If it was a few stoners it'd be one thing. I was there 8 years ago and with the stags and street dealers everywhere the atmosphere wasn't like a Snoop Dogg video at all. It was messy and had a bit of threat hanging in the air.

But that's all in the RLD. Outside that it's a normal city. It's like judging Dublin based on Temple Bar.

There's always talk like this about amsterdam. It's cleaned up a lot over the years. I was there first around 2000 and there were "dealers" on every bridge and street corner in the RLD. Again in 2004 and there was far less. Again around 2010 and there were none and it felt much safer.

murpho999 · 22-02-2021 12:58pm

The comparison to living in Temple Bar is a poor one as I think more people live in the city centre of Amsterdam than would in Dublin.

Either way Amsterdam has a rep for drugs and prostitution and they want to change that. The RLD is a centre for trafficking too.

Red Light on its way out and drugs going too.
Saying that locals would rather have tourists smoking is wrong too as Amsterdam has more to offer than RLD and coffee shops.

It's an historical city full of art and it wants to attract a different type of tourist. I know when I lived there I didn't enjoy going into the city and being hit by the smell of pot in the air as soon as you get off the train and a lot of the groups that it attracted (not all).

Either way it's up to the people of the city to do what they want and not tourists.

doublejobbing 2 · 22-02-2021 1:16pm

Tomrota wrote: »

If I were living in amsterdam, I’d far rather tourists be smoking weed than anything else. They’re just gonna wanna relax, laugh and want food (boosting the economy).

If they consume alcohol, there will be anti-social behaviour coupled with the lowering of inhibitions and the desire to take harder drugs.

.

This idea that cannabis users are some different breed, or that a heavy cannabis habit is somehow preferential to alcoholism, always amuses me. It is a dirty, soul destroying drug if mis used (and most Irish people over their mid 20's who do use it, misuse it to a pretty chronic, dependent extent).

I've met plenty of Dutch people, they love a drink but are ironically probably the most cannabis averse of any European nationality (while the French, Germans, Italians, Spanish would be inclined to drink less but love weed). I think part of their issue is foreign tourists walking around their parks, zoos, transport hubs or streets in general with a joint on them, under the influence of halluncogenics.

Grayson · 22-02-2021 1:27pm

murpho999 wrote: »

The comparison to living in Temple Bar is a poor one as I think more people live in the city centre of Amsterdam then would in Dublin.

Either way Amsterdam has a rep for drugs and prostitution wants to change that. The RLD is a centre for trafficking too.

Red Light on its way out and drugs going too..
Saying that locals would rather have tourists smoking is wrong too as Amsterdam has more to offer than RLD and coffee shops.

It's an historical city full of art and t wants to attract a different type of tourist. I know when I lived there I didn't enjoy going into the city and being hit by the smell of pot in the air as soon as you get off the train and a lot of the groups that it attracted (not all).

Either way it's up to the people of the city to do what they want and not tourists.

I was there last year and it was horrendous. I was with a workmate who was visiting from downunder. We wandered through the red light district. It was shoulder to shoulder. They'd allow people to enter one side and leave one side. It was one of the most claustrophobic situations I've ever been in.

I heard they're going to move the RLD out of the centre and open up something where the sex workers can have some privacy. That's a great idea. And as for closing coffee shops to tourists, that's great too. The entire city centre is over run by tourists and it's destroying the city.

Amsterdam is a beautiful city but it's turned into a joke. I love the netherlands but I wouldn't recommend to anyone to go to Amsterdam. When I was there with a friend we booked a hotel well outside Amsterdam and caught a train in to see stuff.

mikhail · 22-02-2021 1:28pm

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

This idea that cannabis users are some different breed, or that a heavy cannabis habit is somehow preferential to alcoholism, always amuses me. It is a dirty, soul destroying drug if mis used (and most Irish people over their mid 20's who do use it, misuse it to a pretty chronic, dependent extent).

I've met plenty of Dutch people, they love a drink but are ironically probably the most cannabis averse of any European nationality (while the French, Germans, Italians, Spanish would be inclined to drink less but love weed). I think part of their issue is foreign tourists walking around their parks, zoos, transport hubs or streets in general with a joint on them, under the influence of halluncogenics.

Weed isn't an hallucinogenic? What is the objection to weed users exactly? I don't have the personal experience to understand this. Drunks are messy and violent; I've seen plenty of that. Heavy weed users are... what? Dopey and hungry, says the stereotype. Doesn't sound like the end of the world to me. You seem to have a strong opinion on this, but you're being vague enough to be just irritating.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 22-02-2021 1:33pm

FileNotFound wrote: »

I've heard this loads of times, always falls down on the basis that it will drive up illegal drug trade.

Making any drug illegal will do that. People won't stop nuyinh the, they'll just buy them illegally and this the illegal drug trade goes up.

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

This idea that cannabis users are some different breed, or that a heavy cannabis habit is somehow preferential to alcoholism, always amuses me. It is a dirty, soul destroying drug if mis used (and most Irish people over their mid 20's who do use it, misuse it to a pretty chronic, dependent extent).

What drug isn't...??!

Hangdogroad · 22-02-2021 1:34pm

Cienciano wrote: »

But that's all in the RLD. Outside that it's a normal city. It's like judging Dublin based on Temple Bar.

There's always talk like this about amsterdam. It's cleaned up a lot over the years. I was there first around 2000 and there were "dealers" on every bridge and street corner in the RLD. Again in 2004 and there was far less. Again around 2010 and there were none and it felt much safer.

I was there just before Xmas 2004 and thought the RLD was thronged with dealers but that's my only time visiting so far so. Loved Amsterdam on the whole and always meaning to visit again but didn't like the vibe with the dealers.

Meeoow · 22-02-2021 2:06pm

mikhail wrote: »

Weed isn't an hallucinogenic? What is the objection to weed users exactly? I don't have the personal experience to understand this. Drunks are messy and violent; I've seen plenty of that. Heavy weed users are... what? Dopey and hungry, says the stereotype. Doesn't sound like the end of the world to me. You seem to have a strong opinion on this, but you're being vague enough to be just irritating.

I think they may be referring to the mushrooms as hallucinogenic.
Hash can cause drug induced psychosis, which is not much fun to witness in a loved one.

doublejobbing 2 · 22-02-2021 2:51pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

What drug isn't...??!

Ecstasy, if used sparingly.

There would be more high functioning alcoholics out there than cannabis addicts who have it entirely together, IMO.

irelandrover · 22-02-2021 2:54pm

A lot of the problem is that more and more of the city is becoming aimed at that market. restaurant are being replaced by fast food. all shops are being replaced by shops selling cheap tourist crap. Its not just the coffeshops and red light district is a problem but the city is becoming more for the tourists rather than the people actually living there.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 22-02-2021 3:16pm

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

Ecstasy, if used sparingly.

There would be more high functioning alcoholics out there than cannabis addicts who have it entirely together, IMO.

Yeah, in that case not being mis-used.

Probably more high-fuctioning cocaine users than either per capita user.

Trigger Happy · 22-02-2021 3:20pm

What I would not give for a lost weekend in a hotel in amsterdam right now...

Yurt2 · 22-02-2021 3:24pm

Grayson wrote: »

I was there last year and it was horrendous. I was with a workmate who was visiting from downunder. We wandered through the red light district. It was shoulder to shoulder. They'd allow people to enter one side and leave one side. It was one of the most claustrophobic situations I've ever been in.

I heard they're going to move the RLD out of the centre and open up something where the sex workers can have some privacy. That's a great idea. And as for closing coffee shops to tourists, that's great too. The entire city centre is over run by tourists and it's destroying the city.

Amsterdam is a beautiful city but it's turned into a joke. I love the netherlands but I wouldn't recommend to anyone to go to Amsterdam. When I was there with a friend we booked a hotel well outside Amsterdam and caught a train in to see stuff.

Centraal is horrible. It's a giant Temple Bar.

I hope after covid that cities like Amsterdam, Dublin, Venice and Barcelona (and dozens more besides) are given back to their residents instead of sh*tty Ryanair / Easyjet tourists.

Ban the hell out of AirBnb; slap taxes on airlines (mass aviation is horrible for the environment anyway); and make cities come alive for the people that live, work and contribute towards them every day, instead of pushing them to the margins.

elefant · 22-02-2021 4:05pm

irelandrover wrote: »

A lot of the problem is that more and more of the city is becoming aimed at that market. restaurant are being replaced by fast food. all shops are being replaced by shops selling cheap tourist crap. Its not just the coffeshops and red light district is a problem but the city is becoming more for the tourists rather than the people actually living there.

This is it. It's a city (limited in size by its geography) with a population of less than a million, that receives 20 million tourists a year, and this is growing all the time. The investment in attracting tourists over the past 10 years was too successful, and now the city is trying to get a handle on it again.

It feels like a ban on tourists using coffeeshops is an easy way to reduce the overcrowding and touristification of the city centre, but I hope it doesn't backfire into an increase in street dealing.

murpho999 · 22-02-2021 5:10pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Centraal is horrible. It's a giant Temple Bar.

I hope after covid that cities like Amsterdam, Dublin, Venice and Barcelona (and dozens more besides) are given back to their residents instead of sh*tty Ryanair / Easyjet tourists.

Ban the hell out of AirBnb; slap taxes on airlines (mass aviation is horrible for the environment anyway); and make cities come alive for the people that live, work and contribute towards them every day, instead of pushing them to the margins.

I assume you mean centrum?

Centraal is station but is "Central" rather than being an area,

Anyhow I disagree with a lot with what you say. Centre of Amsterdam is beautiful with beautiful canals, architecture, museums etc.

Yes, it's tacky in areas like Rokin, Rembrandtsplein and De Wallen but it still has its charms.
Temple Bar getting bashed here too but I actually like it there, yes the pubs are a rip off but the cobblestones, the buildings etc are nice and even during the day there's a good atmosphere.

Tourism is here to stay and it brings more benefits economically to cities than bad unlike what you say but it has to be managed right and that is what Amsterdam is trying to do.
It does actually provide jobs for people who live in the city and in an increasingly technological age as people work less and have more leisure time will become an even more important sector and you can't just ban and tax things because you don't like tourism.

biko · 22-02-2021 5:20pm

I totally understand the ban. It means less foreigners coming in to smoke and act the maggot which makes the other drugs and sex trades less attractive for international organised crime lords like Brit Robert Dawes.

happyoutscan · 22-02-2021 5:42pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Centraal is horrible. It's a giant Temple Bar.

I hope after covid that cities like Amsterdam, Dublin, Venice and Barcelona (and dozens more besides) are given back to their residents instead of sh*tty Ryanair / Easyjet tourists.

Ban the hell out of AirBnb; slap taxes on airlines (mass aviation is horrible for the environment anyway); and make cities come alive for the people that live, work and contribute towards them every day, instead of pushing them to the margins.

That's a nice hit to the economy right there. How do you propose replacing all the jobs lost in each of these cities then?

frozenfrozen · 22-02-2021 6:49pm

I was in amsterdam and didn't ride any prozzies or do any drugs it's a nice place. Didn't come across any threatening people either, the roughest people in all of these european cities still wear man bags and you just can't take them seriously

the_syco · 22-02-2021 7:28pm

Tomrota wrote: »

If they consume alcohol, there will be anti-social behaviour coupled with the lowering of inhibitions and the desire to take harder drugs.

I think it’s really stupid banning tourists from coffeeshops. Plus, it’s not even gonna work. It’s too far gone at this stage.

From the article, there are only 8 coffee shops left; I assume the rest are pubs that sell weed. Was over there about 9 years ago; only went to 6 of the coffee shops, but there was a load of pubs that sold weed.

=-=

The threatening people only come out after the coffee shops are closed, offering you the harder drugs, and will follow you back to your hostel if you don't tell them to eff off.

22-02-2021 7:48pm

The article is a few weeks old and it was already discussed in the council.

There was widespread support for moving the red light and the other changes.

The coffee shop proposal had less support so its unlikely that aspect will go ahead.

I think moving the Red Light would likely be enough as a lot of the scrootes you see over there (the budget tourists) dont ever leave the Red Light district.

the_syco wrote: »

From the article, there are only 8 coffee shops left; I assume the rest are pubs that sell weed. Was over there about 9 years ago; only went to 6 of the coffee shops, but there was a load of pubs that sold weed.

=-=

The threatening people only come out after the coffee shops are closed, offering you the harder drugs, and will follow you back to your hostel if you don't tell them to eff off.

It either means 8 in the red light or 8 of the original bunch. Its poorly executed in regards to that headline.

Theres a hell of a lot more than 8 in Amsterdam.

smellyoldboot · 22-02-2021 8:07pm

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

This idea that cannabis users are some different breed, or that a heavy cannabis habit is somehow preferential to alcoholism, always amuses me. It is a dirty, soul destroying drug if mis used (and most Irish people over their mid 20's who do use it, misuse it to a pretty chronic, dependent extent).

I've met plenty of Dutch people, they love a drink but are ironically probably the most cannabis averse of any European nationality (while the French, Germans, Italians, Spanish would be inclined to drink less but love weed). I think part of their issue is foreign tourists walking around their parks, zoos, transport hubs or streets in general with a joint on them, under the influence of halluncogenics.

Exactly this. Anyone I have known to chronically/consistently smoke weed is without fail waster and what's worse is they don't seem to realise it. Sure you can point at plenty of them and say they're holding down a job but that's it, they are going nowhere.

I've seen a good few lads ditch it too and the difference in them after was unreal. Literally like a weight off their backs and their career and life blossomed once they got out of the rut of "a few joints" every evening.

It might not have you stealing handbags like a crackhead but it's an insidious depressant that destroys motivation and ambition in my opinion and experience.

22-02-2021 8:22pm

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Sure you can point at plenty of them and say they're holding down a job but that's it, they are going nowhere.

Where else can someone go in life after having a career?

Climbing Mount Everest or similar doesn't factor high on most people's lists.

smellyoldboot · 22-02-2021 8:25pm

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Where else can someone go in life after having a career?

Climbing Mount Everest or similar doesn't factor high on most people's lists.

Staying still in meaningless work while you smoke your motivation away does not equal having a career.

the_syco · 22-02-2021 10:36pm

gilberto_eire wrote: »

There was widespread support for moving the red light and the other changes.

The RLD has been probably there since the 1800's. I can't see them having much luck in moving all of it.

gilberto_eire wrote: »

I think moving the Red Light would likely be enough as a lot of the scrootes you see over there (the budget tourists) dont ever leave the Red Light district.

The scootes that I saw over there are the ones trying to sell you things at midnight when you may not be fully aware that they're tying to con you.

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Theres a hell of a lot more than 8 in Amsterdam.

166 in Amsterdam.

c.p.w.g.w · 22-02-2021 10:38pm

I would rather smoke a joint that drink a beer...but due to my contract...I'd be out of a job if I was caught smoking in my own time because it's illegal

Much more relaxing experience and if someone pisses me off I'm going to handle it better with weed in my system compared to a feed a booze

doublejobbing 2 · 22-02-2021 10:48pm

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Exactly this. Anyone I have known to chronically/consistently smoke weed is without fail waster and what's worse is they don't seem to realise it. Sure you can point at plenty of them and say they're holding down a job but that's it, they are going nowhere.

.

The best is if you challenge any of them on it they pull out a statistical anomaly like Elon Musk or Richard Branson as proof that their brethern are high achieving go getters.

Potential-Monke · 22-02-2021 11:36pm

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

It is a dirty, soul destroying drug if mis used (and most Irish people over their mid 20's who do use it, misuse it to a pretty chronic, dependent extent).

And your proof of this is? Link please. Or wait, is your evidence anecdotal?

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

...under the influence of halluncogenics.

So probably not weed then?

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Exactly this. Anyone I have known to chronically/consistently smoke weed is without fail waster and what's worse is they don't seem to realise it. Sure you can point at plenty of them and say they're holding down a job but that's it, they are going nowhere.

I've seen a good few lads ditch it too and the difference in them after was unreal. Literally like a weight off their backs and their career and life blossomed once they got out of the rut of "a few joints" every evening.

It might not have you stealing handbags like a crackhead but it's an insidious depressant that destroys motivation and ambition in my opinion and experience.

Tell me, what constitutes "living a life"? What milestones does one have to achieve to be successful and not "waste" it? Every single person who isn't constantly striving for improvement for some reason, or just those that smoke weed? I love that argument, that if someone isn't constantly trying to achieve something that they're wasting their life. Must be quite breezy up on those high horses.

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Staying still in meaningless work while you smoke your motivation away does not equal having a career.

So what does? In detail if you could please, I want to take notes.

The last smoke in Amsterdam

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