The last smoke in Amsterdam

doublejobbing 2

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55765554

What says you?

On one hand, locals should probably have a right to have a say in how their city is run. On the other hand, if you don't want to deal with rowdy tourists, you probably shouldn't have bought/ rented a property slap bang in the middle of Amsterdam in the first place. Like gobshiets who rent in Temple Bar and complain about noise, or **** who buy next to Croke Park and think they have a right to say how many concerts should happen there (none would be their preference), or entitled coonts who seem to think Marley/ Phoenix Park is solely for the use of those who live beside it, local busybodies who buy somewhere like this deserve nothing but contempt.

I also by default generally take a dim personal view of Covid being the time to reflect on how things should be forever going forward. It certainly does little to abate anybody conspiracy minded about aspects of it. I don't know if the Dutch Green party are as insufferable and useless as ours, but I'll hazard a guess that they are (funnily enough the Irish Greens are also advocates of trying to ruin Dublin under the guise of "the new normal")

Funny thing is, this sort of thing, that the Dutch were on the brink of calling time on weed and hookers, has been on the cards for 20 odd years. It was in the pipeline when I first went there circa 2005. I returned early last year for the first time and it has dramatically changed since my first visit. You pretty much couldn't walk more than a few minutes without black/ Arab street dealers offering coke/ yokes, I saw absolutely none of this going on this time around. The Red Light district I saw in early 2020 wasn't a fraction as big as it seemed to be 15 years prior. Amsterdam is less seedy than it was years ago, so it's a strange time to float this seeing as it already has cleaned up its act.

So, will they see this through, or is it kite flying that will never be seen through, designed to make the cafes take more responsibility for the types they attract?

Tomrota

If I were living in amsterdam, I’d far rather tourists be smoking weed than anything else. They’re just gonna wanna relax, laugh and want food (boosting the economy).

If they consume alcohol, there will be anti-social behaviour coupled with the lowering of inhibitions and the desire to take harder drugs.

I think it’s really stupid banning tourists from coffeeshops. Plus, it’s not even gonna work. It’s too far gone at this stage.

FileNotFound

Tomrota wrote: »

If I were living in amsterdam, I’d far rather tourists be smoking weed than anything else. They’re just gonna wanna relax, laugh and want food (boosting the economy).

If they consume alcohol, there will be anti-social behaviour coupled with the lowering of inhibitions and the desire to take harder drugs.

I think it’s really stupid banning tourists from coffeeshops. Plus, it’s not even gonna work. It’s too far gone at this stage.

I've heard this loads of times, always falls down on the basis that it will drive up illegal drug trade.

I would agree a few stoners are preferential to a load of drunk people.

Also coffee shops in general flout most rules so i'd imagine they would do the same with this.

If it was a few stoners it'd be one thing. I was there 8 years ago and with the stags and street dealers everywhere the atmosphere wasn't like a Snoop Dogg video at all. It was messy and had a bit of threat hanging in the air.

Cienciano

Deleted User wrote: »

If it was a few stoners it'd be one thing. I was there 8 years ago and with the stags and street dealers everywhere the atmosphere wasn't like a Snoop Dogg video at all. It was messy and had a bit of threat hanging in the air.

But that's all in the RLD. Outside that it's a normal city. It's like judging Dublin based on Temple Bar.

There's always talk like this about amsterdam. It's cleaned up a lot over the years. I was there first around 2000 and there were "dealers" on every bridge and street corner in the RLD. Again in 2004 and there was far less. Again around 2010 and there were none and it felt much safer.

murpho999

The comparison to living in Temple Bar is a poor one as I think more people live in the city centre of Amsterdam than would in Dublin.

Either way Amsterdam has a rep for drugs and prostitution and they want to change that. The RLD is a centre for trafficking too.

Red Light on its way out and drugs going too.
Saying that locals would rather have tourists smoking is wrong too as Amsterdam has more to offer than RLD and coffee shops.

It's an historical city full of art and it wants to attract a different type of tourist. I know when I lived there I didn't enjoy going into the city and being hit by the smell of pot in the air as soon as you get off the train and a lot of the groups that it attracted (not all).

Either way it's up to the people of the city to do what they want and not tourists.

doublejobbing 2

Tomrota wrote: »

If I were living in amsterdam, I’d far rather tourists be smoking weed than anything else. They’re just gonna wanna relax, laugh and want food (boosting the economy).

If they consume alcohol, there will be anti-social behaviour coupled with the lowering of inhibitions and the desire to take harder drugs.

.

This idea that cannabis users are some different breed, or that a heavy cannabis habit is somehow preferential to alcoholism, always amuses me. It is a dirty, soul destroying drug if mis used (and most Irish people over their mid 20's who do use it, misuse it to a pretty chronic, dependent extent).

I've met plenty of Dutch people, they love a drink but are ironically probably the most cannabis averse of any European nationality (while the French, Germans, Italians, Spanish would be inclined to drink less but love weed). I think part of their issue is foreign tourists walking around their parks, zoos, transport hubs or streets in general with a joint on them, under the influence of halluncogenics.

Grayson

murpho999 wrote: »

The comparison to living in Temple Bar is a poor one as I think more people live in the city centre of Amsterdam then would in Dublin.

Either way Amsterdam has a rep for drugs and prostitution wants to change that. The RLD is a centre for trafficking too.

Red Light on its way out and drugs going too..
Saying that locals would rather have tourists smoking is wrong too as Amsterdam has more to offer than RLD and coffee shops.

It's an historical city full of art and t wants to attract a different type of tourist. I know when I lived there I didn't enjoy going into the city and being hit by the smell of pot in the air as soon as you get off the train and a lot of the groups that it attracted (not all).

Either way it's up to the people of the city to do what they want and not tourists.

I was there last year and it was horrendous. I was with a workmate who was visiting from downunder. We wandered through the red light district. It was shoulder to shoulder. They'd allow people to enter one side and leave one side. It was one of the most claustrophobic situations I've ever been in.

I heard they're going to move the RLD out of the centre and open up something where the sex workers can have some privacy. That's a great idea. And as for closing coffee shops to tourists, that's great too. The entire city centre is over run by tourists and it's destroying the city.

Amsterdam is a beautiful city but it's turned into a joke. I love the netherlands but I wouldn't recommend to anyone to go to Amsterdam. When I was there with a friend we booked a hotel well outside Amsterdam and caught a train in to see stuff.

mikhail

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

This idea that cannabis users are some different breed, or that a heavy cannabis habit is somehow preferential to alcoholism, always amuses me. It is a dirty, soul destroying drug if mis used (and most Irish people over their mid 20's who do use it, misuse it to a pretty chronic, dependent extent).

I've met plenty of Dutch people, they love a drink but are ironically probably the most cannabis averse of any European nationality (while the French, Germans, Italians, Spanish would be inclined to drink less but love weed). I think part of their issue is foreign tourists walking around their parks, zoos, transport hubs or streets in general with a joint on them, under the influence of halluncogenics.

Weed isn't an hallucinogenic? What is the objection to weed users exactly? I don't have the personal experience to understand this. Drunks are messy and violent; I've seen plenty of that. Heavy weed users are... what? Dopey and hungry, says the stereotype. Doesn't sound like the end of the world to me. You seem to have a strong opinion on this, but you're being vague enough to be just irritating.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

FileNotFound wrote: »

I've heard this loads of times, always falls down on the basis that it will drive up illegal drug trade.

Making any drug illegal will do that. People won't stop nuyinh the, they'll just buy them illegally and this the illegal drug trade goes up.

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

This idea that cannabis users are some different breed, or that a heavy cannabis habit is somehow preferential to alcoholism, always amuses me. It is a dirty, soul destroying drug if mis used (and most Irish people over their mid 20's who do use it, misuse it to a pretty chronic, dependent extent).

What drug isn't...??!

Hangdogroad

Cienciano wrote: »

But that's all in the RLD. Outside that it's a normal city. It's like judging Dublin based on Temple Bar.

There's always talk like this about amsterdam. It's cleaned up a lot over the years. I was there first around 2000 and there were "dealers" on every bridge and street corner in the RLD. Again in 2004 and there was far less. Again around 2010 and there were none and it felt much safer.

I was there just before Xmas 2004 and thought the RLD was thronged with dealers but that's my only time visiting so far so. Loved Amsterdam on the whole and always meaning to visit again but didn't like the vibe with the dealers.

Meeoow

mikhail wrote: »

Weed isn't an hallucinogenic? What is the objection to weed users exactly? I don't have the personal experience to understand this. Drunks are messy and violent; I've seen plenty of that. Heavy weed users are... what? Dopey and hungry, says the stereotype. Doesn't sound like the end of the world to me. You seem to have a strong opinion on this, but you're being vague enough to be just irritating.

I think they may be referring to the mushrooms as hallucinogenic.
Hash can cause drug induced psychosis, which is not much fun to witness in a loved one.

doublejobbing 2

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

What drug isn't...??!

Ecstasy, if used sparingly.

There would be more high functioning alcoholics out there than cannabis addicts who have it entirely together, IMO.

irelandrover

A lot of the problem is that more and more of the city is becoming aimed at that market. restaurant are being replaced by fast food. all shops are being replaced by shops selling cheap tourist crap. Its not just the coffeshops and red light district is a problem but the city is becoming more for the tourists rather than the people actually living there.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

Ecstasy, if used sparingly.

There would be more high functioning alcoholics out there than cannabis addicts who have it entirely together, IMO.

Yeah, in that case not being mis-used.

Probably more high-fuctioning cocaine users than either per capita user.

Trigger Happy

What I would not give for a lost weekend in a hotel in amsterdam right now...

Yurt2

Grayson wrote: »

I was there last year and it was horrendous. I was with a workmate who was visiting from downunder. We wandered through the red light district. It was shoulder to shoulder. They'd allow people to enter one side and leave one side. It was one of the most claustrophobic situations I've ever been in.

I heard they're going to move the RLD out of the centre and open up something where the sex workers can have some privacy. That's a great idea. And as for closing coffee shops to tourists, that's great too. The entire city centre is over run by tourists and it's destroying the city.

Amsterdam is a beautiful city but it's turned into a joke. I love the netherlands but I wouldn't recommend to anyone to go to Amsterdam. When I was there with a friend we booked a hotel well outside Amsterdam and caught a train in to see stuff.

Centraal is horrible. It's a giant Temple Bar.

I hope after covid that cities like Amsterdam, Dublin, Venice and Barcelona (and dozens more besides) are given back to their residents instead of sh*tty Ryanair / Easyjet tourists.

Ban the hell out of AirBnb; slap taxes on airlines (mass aviation is horrible for the environment anyway); and make cities come alive for the people that live, work and contribute towards them every day, instead of pushing them to the margins.

elefant

irelandrover wrote: »

A lot of the problem is that more and more of the city is becoming aimed at that market. restaurant are being replaced by fast food. all shops are being replaced by shops selling cheap tourist crap. Its not just the coffeshops and red light district is a problem but the city is becoming more for the tourists rather than the people actually living there.

This is it. It's a city (limited in size by its geography) with a population of less than a million, that receives 20 million tourists a year, and this is growing all the time. The investment in attracting tourists over the past 10 years was too successful, and now the city is trying to get a handle on it again.

It feels like a ban on tourists using coffeeshops is an easy way to reduce the overcrowding and touristification of the city centre, but I hope it doesn't backfire into an increase in street dealing.

murpho999

Yurt! wrote: »

Centraal is horrible. It's a giant Temple Bar.

I hope after covid that cities like Amsterdam, Dublin, Venice and Barcelona (and dozens more besides) are given back to their residents instead of sh*tty Ryanair / Easyjet tourists.

Ban the hell out of AirBnb; slap taxes on airlines (mass aviation is horrible for the environment anyway); and make cities come alive for the people that live, work and contribute towards them every day, instead of pushing them to the margins.

I assume you mean centrum?

Centraal is station but is "Central" rather than being an area,

Anyhow I disagree with a lot with what you say. Centre of Amsterdam is beautiful with beautiful canals, architecture, museums etc.

Yes, it's tacky in areas like Rokin, Rembrandtsplein and De Wallen but it still has its charms.
Temple Bar getting bashed here too but I actually like it there, yes the pubs are a rip off but the cobblestones, the buildings etc are nice and even during the day there's a good atmosphere.

Tourism is here to stay and it brings more benefits economically to cities than bad unlike what you say but it has to be managed right and that is what Amsterdam is trying to do.
It does actually provide jobs for people who live in the city and in an increasingly technological age as people work less and have more leisure time will become an even more important sector and you can't just ban and tax things because you don't like tourism.

biko

I totally understand the ban. It means less foreigners coming in to smoke and act the maggot which makes the other drugs and sex trades less attractive for international organised crime lords like Brit Robert Dawes.

happyoutscan

Yurt! wrote: »

Centraal is horrible. It's a giant Temple Bar.

I hope after covid that cities like Amsterdam, Dublin, Venice and Barcelona (and dozens more besides) are given back to their residents instead of sh*tty Ryanair / Easyjet tourists.

Ban the hell out of AirBnb; slap taxes on airlines (mass aviation is horrible for the environment anyway); and make cities come alive for the people that live, work and contribute towards them every day, instead of pushing them to the margins.

That's a nice hit to the economy right there. How do you propose replacing all the jobs lost in each of these cities then?

frozenfrozen

I was in amsterdam and didn't ride any prozzies or do any drugs it's a nice place. Didn't come across any threatening people either, the roughest people in all of these european cities still wear man bags and you just can't take them seriously

the_syco

Tomrota wrote: »

If they consume alcohol, there will be anti-social behaviour coupled with the lowering of inhibitions and the desire to take harder drugs.

I think it’s really stupid banning tourists from coffeeshops. Plus, it’s not even gonna work. It’s too far gone at this stage.

From the article, there are only 8 coffee shops left; I assume the rest are pubs that sell weed. Was over there about 9 years ago; only went to 6 of the coffee shops, but there was a load of pubs that sold weed.

=-=

The threatening people only come out after the coffee shops are closed, offering you the harder drugs, and will follow you back to your hostel if you don't tell them to eff off.

the_syco

The article is a few weeks old and it was already discussed in the council.

There was widespread support for moving the red light and the other changes.

The coffee shop proposal had less support so its unlikely that aspect will go ahead.

I think moving the Red Light would likely be enough as a lot of the scrootes you see over there (the budget tourists) dont ever leave the Red Light district.

the_syco wrote: »

From the article, there are only 8 coffee shops left; I assume the rest are pubs that sell weed. Was over there about 9 years ago; only went to 6 of the coffee shops, but there was a load of pubs that sold weed.

=-=

The threatening people only come out after the coffee shops are closed, offering you the harder drugs, and will follow you back to your hostel if you don't tell them to eff off.

It either means 8 in the red light or 8 of the original bunch. Its poorly executed in regards to that headline.

Theres a hell of a lot more than 8 in Amsterdam.

smellyoldboot

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

This idea that cannabis users are some different breed, or that a heavy cannabis habit is somehow preferential to alcoholism, always amuses me. It is a dirty, soul destroying drug if mis used (and most Irish people over their mid 20's who do use it, misuse it to a pretty chronic, dependent extent).

I've met plenty of Dutch people, they love a drink but are ironically probably the most cannabis averse of any European nationality (while the French, Germans, Italians, Spanish would be inclined to drink less but love weed). I think part of their issue is foreign tourists walking around their parks, zoos, transport hubs or streets in general with a joint on them, under the influence of halluncogenics.

Exactly this. Anyone I have known to chronically/consistently smoke weed is without fail waster and what's worse is they don't seem to realise it. Sure you can point at plenty of them and say they're holding down a job but that's it, they are going nowhere.

I've seen a good few lads ditch it too and the difference in them after was unreal. Literally like a weight off their backs and their career and life blossomed once they got out of the rut of "a few joints" every evening.

It might not have you stealing handbags like a crackhead but it's an insidious depressant that destroys motivation and ambition in my opinion and experience.

smellyoldboot

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Sure you can point at plenty of them and say they're holding down a job but that's it, they are going nowhere.

Where else can someone go in life after having a career?

Climbing Mount Everest or similar doesn't factor high on most people's lists.

smellyoldboot

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Where else can someone go in life after having a career?

Climbing Mount Everest or similar doesn't factor high on most people's lists.

Staying still in meaningless work while you smoke your motivation away does not equal having a career.

the_syco

gilberto_eire wrote: »

There was widespread support for moving the red light and the other changes.

The RLD has been probably there since the 1800's. I can't see them having much luck in moving all of it.

gilberto_eire wrote: »

I think moving the Red Light would likely be enough as a lot of the scrootes you see over there (the budget tourists) dont ever leave the Red Light district.

The scootes that I saw over there are the ones trying to sell you things at midnight when you may not be fully aware that they're tying to con you.

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Theres a hell of a lot more than 8 in Amsterdam.

166 in Amsterdam.

c.p.w.g.w

I would rather smoke a joint that drink a beer...but due to my contract...I'd be out of a job if I was caught smoking in my own time because it's illegal

Much more relaxing experience and if someone pisses me off I'm going to handle it better with weed in my system compared to a feed a booze

doublejobbing 2

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Exactly this. Anyone I have known to chronically/consistently smoke weed is without fail waster and what's worse is they don't seem to realise it. Sure you can point at plenty of them and say they're holding down a job but that's it, they are going nowhere.

.

The best is if you challenge any of them on it they pull out a statistical anomaly like Elon Musk or Richard Branson as proof that their brethern are high achieving go getters.

Potential-Monke

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

It is a dirty, soul destroying drug if mis used (and most Irish people over their mid 20's who do use it, misuse it to a pretty chronic, dependent extent).

And your proof of this is? Link please. Or wait, is your evidence anecdotal?

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

...under the influence of halluncogenics.

So probably not weed then?

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Exactly this. Anyone I have known to chronically/consistently smoke weed is without fail waster and what's worse is they don't seem to realise it. Sure you can point at plenty of them and say they're holding down a job but that's it, they are going nowhere.

I've seen a good few lads ditch it too and the difference in them after was unreal. Literally like a weight off their backs and their career and life blossomed once they got out of the rut of "a few joints" every evening.

It might not have you stealing handbags like a crackhead but it's an insidious depressant that destroys motivation and ambition in my opinion and experience.

Tell me, what constitutes "living a life"? What milestones does one have to achieve to be successful and not "waste" it? Every single person who isn't constantly striving for improvement for some reason, or just those that smoke weed? I love that argument, that if someone isn't constantly trying to achieve something that they're wasting their life. Must be quite breezy up on those high horses.

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Staying still in meaningless work while you smoke your motivation away does not equal having a career.

So what does? In detail if you could please, I want to take notes.

smellyoldboot

Ah, classic. Don't dispute the point, rather suggest an alternative lifestyle may in fact be better. Spark another joint sure. It's groundhog day again tomorrow....

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

The best is if you challenge any of them on it they pull out a statistical anomaly like Elon Musk or Richard Branson as proof that their brethern are high achieving go getters.

Well of course they do - it's the quickest and most effective way of pointing out the stupidity of the "anyone I have known is.... and therefore everyone is" argument!!

Potential-Monke

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Ah, classic. Don't dispute the point, rather suggest an alternative lifestyle may in fact be better. Spark another joint sure. It's groundhog day again tomorrow....

Dispute what point? Your own personal bias and condemnation of anyone who smokes weed? I'm doing that. And I've already had one, thanks. It's been groundhog day for years now, well before I started smoking. But please tell me oh great one, how can I improve my life? What do I need to strive for in order to not be wasting my life? There's a few specific points in my own personal life I'd like you to comment on, and seeing as you know exactly how I live I'm sure you know which parts I'm talking about.

Also, classic, ignore the requests for facts or answers to questions and instead have another go. I'm here willing to debate, I asked genuine questions.

Yurt2

happyoutscan wrote: »

That's a nice hit to the economy right there. How do you propose replacing all the jobs lost in each of these cities then?

This old pickle. While tourism is one of those sectors that definitely increases GDP growth, there is not a correlation between that growth and quality of life for most people with mass-tourism.

The spoils go to airlines, hotel groups, AirBnb owners (pushing out locals). A lot of the money goes offshore anyway. You can't eat GDP growth, nor can you use it to put a roof over your head. Even the jobs are long hours and low wages now mostly done by foreigners anyway. I'd wager if you asked them, job-satisfaction is rather low. Tourism doesn't generally produce high-quality sustainable jobs.

I work in a sector far removed from tourism, as do most of the populace, so you'll find it hard for me to give a crap. At one stage in Dublin I was living in between two AirBnbs and I before I moved I remember talking to my landlord and he was thinking of doing the same. Dublin is insufferable in the summer. An extra couple of million tourists per year won't improve my life, and I'll forgo the minimal uptick in GDP growth thankyouverymuch.

Italy is one of the worst examples of it. I was there in the summer for a wedding and tourist towns are overran with low-quality Chinese tour groups, with Chinese guides and going to Chinese restaurants owned by Chinese people and staying in Chinese owned hotels. You'd scratch your head and wonder what's the point? Italians I talked to certainly weren't impressed. We can thank our lucky stars were not on that trail yet.

Tourism can be a wonderful thing. But when it becomes a free for all, it changes cities for the worse in my opinion and in the opinion of a growing amount of people.

Potential-Monke

Yurt! wrote: »

Italy is one of the worst examples of it. I was there in the summer for a wedding and tourist towns are overran with low-quality Chinese tour groups, with Chinese guides and going to Chinese restaurants owned by Chinese people and staying in Chinese owned hotels. You'd scratch your head and wonder what's the point? Italians I talked to certainly weren't impressed. We can thank our lucky stars were not on that trail yet.

One of the reasons I never really liked group holidays. No matter what country you go to as a group, there'll always be the ones who want to go the Irish bars. Never understood it tbh. Fly potentially thousands of miles only to be surrounded by stuff from back home. And usually tacky to boot.

Treppen

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Exactly this. Anyone I have known to chronically/consistently smoke weed is without fail waster and what's worse is they don't seem to realise it. Sure you can point at plenty of them and say they're holding down a job but that's it, they are going nowhere.

I've seen a good few lads ditch it too and the difference in them after was unreal. Literally like a weight off their backs and their career and life blossomed once they got out of the rut of "a few joints" every evening.

It might not have you stealing handbags like a crackhead but it's an insidious depressant that destroys motivation and ambition in my opinion and experience.

Few of my old college friends still partake regularly. Not my cup of tea, but they're doing no harm.
One is senior position in council.
Another is currently prepping his factory or idea (whatever it is!) To be bought out by multinational.
Another is a barrister for a large financial organisation.
Another has their own DIY shop
Accountant
Events organiser
Engineers
Software Engineer
Big pharma !

They wouldn't wake and bake but mostly on weekends. The use has probably declined as they're busy with kids and stuff. I don't know how the heck you could be stoned and mind kids!

And there are still a few pissheads doing what they always did, but seemingly happy... And a few casualties that didn't make it.. but I think there were underlying issues there to begin with.

So by all accounts it's a spectrum.

Probably the same as a spectrum of people who never indulged.

Let em at it as long as it does nobody else any harm.

Amsterdam was a victim of its own popularity.

Nobody ever mentions Eindhoven or Copenhagen... or Canada!!

Yurt2

Treppen wrote: »

Few of my old college friends still partake regularly. Not my cup of tea, but they're doing no harm.
One is senior position in council.
Another is currently prepping his factory or idea (whatever it is!) To be bought out by multinational.
Another is a barrister for a large financial organisation.
Another has their own DIY shop
Accountant
Events organiser
Engineers

They wouldn't wake and bake but mostly on weekends. The use has probably declined as they're busy with kids and stuff. I don't know how the heck you could be stoned and mind kids!

And there are still a few pissheads doing what they always did, but seemingly happy.

So by all accounts it's a spectrum.

Probably the same as a spectrum of people who never indulged.

Let me at it as long as it does nobody else any harm.

Amsterdam was a victim of its own success.

Nobody ever mentions Eindhoven or Copenhagen... or Canada!!

Can think of a few posters who might be well-served to have a few huffs of the old lettuce to calm them down!

Interestingly, the link between weed and indolence/laziness came from the American media and politicians, who were spooked by an influx of Mexican immigrants in the 30s (who were anything but lazy but liked a puff), and they held that immigrant groups would corrode the productive Anglo-Protestant shining city on the hill that was the US of A. Prior to that, Americans actually smoked weed freely and there was little to no stigma.

And we still have people on the internet almost 100 years later repeating the same stuff about weed as if they've figured something out. Shows how powerful propaganda and storytelling are I suppose.

jam_mac_jam

As if nobody ever became an alcoholic. FFS. Anything done to excess causes problems.

Plenty of people smoke in moderation the same way plenty of people drink in moderation.

A lot less visits to casualty and deaths from cannabis use.

Aongus Von Bismarck

I'm a big fan of the Dutch in general, and can see why the residents of Amsterdam have decided that enough is enough. Always known as being straight talking folks. Even though I live in Frankfurt I haven't been to Amsterdam that often, but when I have I always come away thinking a beautiful city has been tarnished by its association with drugs and sex work.

Move away from the centre, and you find a city that still has bars and restaurants that are hundreds of years old, beautiful art installations, contemporary architecture, an innovative business environment, and some of the loveliest people you'll ever meet.

The inner core itself is a hellish place though - overpriced restaurants with pictures on the menu; groups of stags from England, Scotland and Ireland peering in the windows at trafficked women, shops selling cheap tat, drug dealers on every corner, losers hanging around outside cannabis cafes talking rubbish to each other.

Yurt2

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I'm a big fan of the Dutch in general, and can see why the residents of Amsterdam have decided that enough is enough. Always known as being straight talking folks. Even though I live in Frankfurt I haven't been to Amsterdam that often, but when I have I always come away thinking a beautiful city has been tarnished by its association with drugs and sex work.

Move away from the centre, and you find a city that still has bars and restaurants that are hundreds of years old, beautiful art installations, contemporary architecture, an innovative business environment, and some of the loveliest people you'll ever meet.

The inner core itself is a hellish place though - overpriced restaurants with pictures on the menu; groups of stags from England, Scotland and Ireland peering in the windows at trafficked women, shops selling cheap tat, drug dealers on every corner, losers hanging around outside cannabis cafes talking rubbish to each other.

When you were hanging around there in proximity to cafes, did it occur to you that maybe someone just like you mistook you for a loser talking rubbish with your travel partner?


Think about it man...

Potential-Monke

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

A lot less visits to casualty and zero deaths from cannabis use.

FYP.

Parachutes

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I'm a big fan of the Dutch in general, and can see why the residents of Amsterdam have decided that enough is enough. Always known as being straight talking folks. Even though I live in Frankfurt I haven't been to Amsterdam that often, but when I have I always come away thinking a beautiful city has been tarnished by its association with drugs and sex work.

Move away from the centre, and you find a city that still has bars and restaurants that are hundreds of years old, beautiful art installations, contemporary architecture, an innovative business environment, and some of the loveliest people you'll ever meet.

The inner core itself is a hellish place though - overpriced restaurants with pictures on the menu; groups of stags from England, Scotland and Ireland peering in the windows at trafficked women, shops selling cheap tat, drug dealers on every corner, losers hanging around outside cannabis cafes talking rubbish to each other.

Aongus, you're slacking. Go back to flushing your brothers weed down the toilet. I need a good laugh at the moment, and get the blog back up and running!

smellyoldboot

Potential-Monke wrote: »

And your proof of this is? Link please. Or wait, is your evidence anecdotal?



So probably not weed then?



Tell me, what constitutes "living a life"? What milestones does one have to achieve to be successful and not "waste" it? Every single person who isn't constantly striving for improvement for some reason, or just those that smoke weed? I love that argument, that if someone isn't constantly trying to achieve something that they're wasting their life. Must be quite breezy up on those high horses.



So what does? In detail if you could please, I want to take notes.

Basically yes, when you stop trying to improve and settle for what you think life has given you. You stop living and move into a sedentary phase of just hanging around waiting to die. I'm sure constantly being sedated helps numb the realisation you are doing this to yourself. It is harmless sure, to me and to the rest of society but to yourself. Deep down you probably know that and it's what causes the reach for another smoke. "It just helps me relax".

Aongus Von Bismarck

Parachutes wrote: »

Aongus, you're slacking. Go back to flushing your brothers weed down the toilet. I need a good laugh at the moment, and get the blog back up and running!

I burned his weed.

I'm very proud to say he's now 7 months off cannabis, alcohol, and gambling. The lockdown is the best thing that has ever happened to him.

Aongus Von Bismarck

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I burned his weed.

Did you go all bill clinton,and not inhale?

Parachutes

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I burned his weed.

I'm very proud to say he's now 7 months off cannabis, alcohol, and gambling. The lockdown is the best thing that has ever happened to him.

Ah yes, I remember now. Glad to hear you got him sorted out in the end.

Potential-Monke

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Basically yes, when you stop trying to improve and settle for what you think life has given you. You stop living and move into a sedentary phase of just hanging around waiting to die. I'm sure constantly being sedated helps numb the realisation you are doing this to yourself. It is harmless sure, to me and to the rest of society but to yourself. Deep down you probably know that and it's what causes the reach for another smoke. "It just helps me relax".

Wow. Such a narrow view. So someone who settles and is happy with what they have is a waster, a failure even? As you said, harmless to you and the rest of society, but your view is quite damaging and you don't smoke weed. I reach for another smoke because of people with views like yours, one stuck in a old and Americanised view of what success is.

What does it matter what someone does or doesn't do in life as long as they are happy? I had the mortgage, I had the long term missus, I could have had kids if I wanted them, I had a public service job with a "golden" (hah!) pension. I was miserable but fooled myself into believing that this is what happiness and success should be, a mortgage, a wife, kids, a good job. And that seems to work for some people. Lots of other people are fooling themselves into thinking they're happy in that situation (they're not). And then you have the likes of me, who has realised the actual value of living a life the way I want. You see it as a waste, I see it as using my time the way I want. Only difference is I'm not labelling an entire group of people for their choice of life based on my own personal opinion.

smellyoldboot

Treppen wrote: »

Few of my old college friends still partake regularly. Not my cup of tea, but they're doing no harm.
One is senior position in council.
Another is currently prepping his factory or idea (whatever it is!) To be bought out by multinational.
Another is a barrister for a large financial organisation.
Another has their own DIY shop
Accountant
Events organiser
Engineers
Software Engineer
Big pharma !

They wouldn't wake and bake but mostly on weekends. The use has probably declined as they're busy with kids and stuff. I don't know how the heck you could be stoned and mind kids!

And there are still a few pissheads doing what they always did, but seemingly happy... And a few casualties that didn't make it.. but I think there were underlying issues there to begin with.

So by all accounts it's a spectrum.

Probably the same as a spectrum of people who never indulged.

Let em at it as long as it does nobody else any harm.

Amsterdam was a victim of its own popularity.

Nobody ever mentions Eindhoven or Copenhagen... or Canada!!

Actually used to sell it a bit when I was younger and the customers covered the full range of society as you say.

Whether twas a young lad or a high flyer sneaking round to buy on the sly they had a lot in common : When it came to the evening, weekend etc they were every bit as dependent on that weed as an alcoholic is on their next drink or god forbid a dirty junkie is on their gear. But here is the funny part, all of them, bar none would be appalled by the comparison as I'm sure plenty here will be too but all the hallmarks were there. It's Friday evening : Need a few joints to relax, tough day at work: sure I'll spark up a joint. It's my sisters/cousins/mother's etc birthday : better get a bit of hash.

Substitute any of the above for the alcohol equivalent and tell me how you wouldn't be a candidate for AA?

I've known alcoholics, coke addicts, gamblers, even have a heroin addict in the family as well as the numerous "social smokers" and the main difference I see between all of them is one particular group maintains a smug sense of self delusion while ruining their lives albeit slower and in a more subtle way than the others.

When you need something, no matter what it is, to feel right or relax, there's something not right with you, a bit of a want as they say, and convincing yourself otherwise while you reach for that crutch doesn't fix anything.

smellyoldboot

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Wow. Such a narrow view. So someone who settles and is happy with what they have is a waster, a failure even? As you said, harmless to you and the rest of society, but your view is quite damaging and you don't smoke weed. I reach for another smoke because of people with views like yours, one stuck in a old and Americanised view of what success is.

What does it matter what someone does or doesn't do in life as long as they are happy? I had the mortgage, I had the long term missus, I could have had kids if I wanted them, I had a public service job with a "golden" (hah!) pension. I was miserable but fooled myself into believing that this is what happiness and success should be, a mortgage, a wife, kids, a good job. And that seems to work for some people. Lots of other people are fooling themselves into thinking they're happy in that situation (they're not). And then you have the likes of me, who has realised the actual value of living a life the way I want. You see it as a waste, I see it as using my time the way I want. Only difference is I'm not labelling an entire group of people for their choice of life based on my own personal opinion.

But you're not happy and living your life the way you want are you? You reach for that crutch to numb it out. Make you forget. Make it go away.

Yurt2

smellyoldboot wrote: »

But you're not happy and living your life the way you want are you? You reach for that crutch to numb it out. Make you forget. Make it go away.

If you want to get rid of substance abuse, you'll need to eradicate human misery and depression first. One flows from the other.

Most people aren't miserable though. I'm well capable of having the occasional joint among friends or when watching a movie and not succumbing to reefer madness.

Same as anyone who likes a pint with good company in a warm pub (oh how I miss you, fireside creamy pint, I'll never speak ill of you again), part of the rich tapestry of life smellyoldboot. Different folks, different strokes.

Some people overeat because they have sadness in their life, should we ban food and delivery pizza too?