Who Watches the Watchmen (Our Chit Chat Thread)

Wibbs · 22-02-2021 12:35pm

Cyclingtourist wrote: »

I think 'luxury' in the end comes down to price, it's a perception.

Luxury explained.

Fitz II wrote: »

It goes to show that all the polishing in the world doesn't make a movement more robust. Patek have 3-5 year intervals and they polish and bevel the underside of the screws for heaven's sake. I think that Rolex concentrate on the shock resistance and rigidness of the bridges, which is ugly but solid. Sure the new 41mm subs have an issue with noisy rotors, where they put a ring of bearings in to take the stress off the rotor pin...makes more noise but fixes a common fault where rotors broke free. Thats their priority and refinement be damned.

Pretty much, but the really impressive hat's off aspect to Rolex's inhouse movements is that on top of that they can get remarkable accuracy out of them and like I say that was in play even when their movement quality control was dire. Back in the day there was a craze of third party clear casebacks stuck on all sorts of brands, but Rolex were rarely one of them. That's bloody good design that no amount of look at this under 1000x magnification finishing can beat IMHO.

unkel · 22-02-2021 12:35pm

redlead wrote: »

The thing is though, you aren't really a luxury watch kind of guy.

Nobody is, until they are

redlead · 22-02-2021 12:38pm

unkel wrote: »

Nobody is, until they are

Touché

Cienciano · 22-02-2021 12:39pm

Cyclingtourist wrote: »

So here's the question; Is the Sinn 556 i RS, which I also like, at about €1.4K a 'luxury' watch?

How long is a piece of string? All depends where you're coming from. I think most people would consider over €300 a luxury watch but I doubt Conor McGregor would consider any Sinn luxury. I reckon about €3k myself, but i'm sure some vintage watches can be had for less than €2k that i'd consider luxury. It's completely open to interpretation.

mailforkev · 22-02-2021 1:59pm

CT, if you want an Omega or Rolex, just save up your cash and buy an Omega or Rolex. Don’t get caught in an eternal loop trying to justify spending that much cash on one watch. You’ve earned the money, it’s yours to spend.

You can spend a quarter or half of the amount on as many Stowas or Sinns as you like but, at the end of the day, you’ll still want the Omega or Rolex.

893bet · 22-02-2021 2:36pm

You won’t lose a penny on a second hand omega or Rolex.

And easy convert back to cash.

Fitz II · 22-02-2021 2:37pm

What is a luxury watch?....I dont know what the cut off is, its certainly a bit more granular than a round number, however I dont think its based on what you can afford.

Jeff Bezos has billions of euros, doesnt make a Patek any less luxury for him. My first car was a stretch (a green Opel Astra with major mechanical issues).....was a lot to me but didn't make it a luxury car.

THis notion that is was "a lot for me" is a side issue it doesn't make a watch good or bad. The catch cries of "well its a lot to me" or "I buy what I like" is all too frequent. My thesis is that people dont "buy what they like" they "like what they buy".

If you aim is to buy things then languishing in low tier land is fine. However most people will be reading this post on a 1000 euro computer, or 700 euro phone, 3k is not a lot of money to save up for most people if that item is important to them. If you are unwilling to sacrifice a holiday, or nights out, or fags or booze for the watch you are after, then thats on you....

ArchieLuxury put it succinctly as "Its got to hurt" and if you think on this it kinda gets across the point THis is a hobby of buying mostly useless, unnecessary items. Nobody is forcing you to buy anything, but at the same time there is no luxury in sh1tters.

scwazrh · 22-02-2021 2:39pm

893bet wrote: »

You won’t lose a penny on a second hand omega or Rolex.

And easy convert back to cash.

Omega you might, maybe not a lot but it’s not the value holder that Rolex is

Cienciano · 22-02-2021 2:54pm

scwazrh wrote: »

Omega you might, maybe not a lot but it’s not the value holder that Rolex is

And there we have the other side of the conundrum, buying a watch that isn't necessarily what you want because it holds value well. Works out well if that's what you want.

Check second hand Sinn prices, if you can live with what they're going for 5 years old, go for it if that's the watch you want.

CalamariFritti · 22-02-2021 2:55pm

You can buy a very precise watch for under €100. Meaning function is not an issue. There are also thousands if not millions to choose from so form isn't an issue either. You will be able to find a watch that is aesthetically pleasing and works well for no money at all.

You could argue everything after that is some sort of indulgence.

All my friends and family would think a €300 Seiko is luxury. A €1400 watch is definitely a luxury in my book.

Cyclingtourist · 22-02-2021 4:13pm

Fitz II wrote: »

What is a luxury watch?....I dont know what the cut off is, its certainly a bit more granular than a round number, however I dont think its based on what you can afford.

Jeff Bezos has billions of euros, doesnt make a Patek any less luxury for him. My first car was a stretch (a green Opel Astra with major mechanical issues).....was a lot to me but didn't make it a luxury car.

THis notion that is was "a lot for me" is a side issue it doesn't make a watch good or bad. The catch cries of "well its a lot to me" or "I buy what I like" is all too frequent. My thesis is that people dont "buy what they like" they "like what they buy".

If you aim is to buy things then languishing in low tier land is fine. However most people will be reading this post on a 1000 euro computer, or 700 euro phone, 3k is not a lot of money to save up for most people if that item is important to them. If you are unwilling to sacrifice a holiday, or nights out, or fags or booze for the watch you are after, then thats on you....

ArchieLuxury put it succinctly as "Its got to hurt" and if you think on this it kinda gets across the point THis is a hobby of buying mostly useless, unnecessary items. Nobody is forcing you to buy anything, but at the same time there is no luxury in sh1tters.

Luxury is subjective, for some a three star hotel is luxury, for others it starts at four star, while some wouldn't consider staying in any hotel that wasn't five star.

I believe I buy what I like and reject what I don't like but sometimes once I have it I don't like it quite so much.

To Archie Luxury, although not necessarily the method actor behind him, just about everything that isn't Rolex or Patek is a '****ter' but clearly Citizen, Seiko, Stowa and many other brands you can buy for less than a grand are producing products that cannot be classified as 'low quality'.

redlead · 22-02-2021 4:23pm

Cyclingtourist wrote: »

while some wouldn't consider staying in any hotel that wasn't five star.

'.

That would be my wife .....

Fitz II · 22-02-2021 4:46pm

Cyclingtourist wrote: »

Luxury is subjective, for some a three star hotel is luxury, for others it starts at four star, while some wouldn't consider staying in any hotel that wasn't five star.

I believe I buy what I like and reject what I don't like but sometimes once I have it I don't like it quite so much.

To Archie Luxury, although not necessarily the method actor behind him, just about everything that isn't Rolex or Patek is a '****ter' but clearly Citizen, Seiko, Stowa and many other brands you can buy for less than a grand are producing products that cannot be classified as 'low quality'.

I think the existence of a hotel star rating disproves you point. The levels of hotels is easy to gauge, your personal tolerance and the value you place on it are subjective, but there is no disputing that a 5 star is more luxurious than a 4 star. And that if its a luxury experiance you are after 2 star and 3 star are not going to satisfy you.

Yes Archie is a overblown caricature, but the core message is solid. If you hanker for something and move heaven and earth to get it, you will have achieved something and bought something of value to you. The "Just one more watch" method yields you just that. I think the word quality got worked in there somehow and thats not the discussion at the moment. There is no doubt when you get a stowa that the watch has a certain quality and maybe a quality above its price point but luxury it aint.

mailforkev · 22-02-2021 4:59pm

The definition of luxury has changed a bit over the years too. If someone in the 70/80s had a Mercedes, it was a car of a certain heft, it certainly wasn’t a 1.3 Renault engined A Class hatchback. However, Mercedes is still very much a luxury brand. It’s about the brand, not necessarily the product.

Buy the Rolex, every time you look at it you will feel a sense of achievement. And no one will ever ask you “what’s a Rolex?”. Try telling your average chap who says “nice watch” that it’s a Stowa/Sinn and see how you get on (I have a Stowa, trust me on this). Buy the Sinn if you want a Sinn, not because you want a Rolex.

Also, a three star hotel is not luxury whether you earn 20k or 200k. How nice you find it might change based on your income but a three star hotel remains three star.

To summarise, buy the Rolex CT.

Fitz II · 22-02-2021 5:02pm

mailforkev wrote: »

To summarise, buy the Rolex CT.

CT will have a Tudor BB58 before years end.....then he is one of us....bwuahhhahahhhahhah

CarProblem · 22-02-2021 5:04pm

Fitz II wrote: »

My thesis is that people dont "buy what they like" they "like what they buy"

I definitely get the impression however that you assume if people don't buy what you like then they're settling

e.g. earlier

it just highlights that really people are after Rolex and looking for excuses to buy the watch they can get.

I bought a GS instead of a Rolex OP39. I could have got a Rolex, in fact at the time they were going for at/slightly lower than RRP on Chrono24. I could buy a sub or a GMT tomorrow if I wanted - I just don't want to

The only reason I'd buy a Rolex GMT if an AD rang me tomorrow would be to flip it and buy one of these

I've already been asked, when a friend, saw my GS something along the lines of "it's nice and all but why didn't you buy a Rolex" so I'm not saying the "Rolex worship" doesn't exist. Answer to the above, cos I didn't want a Rolex. Different people like different things - you don't seem to value the level of finishing on GS, when I saw the new Rolex releases I thought

Cienciano · 22-02-2021 5:08pm

Fitz II wrote: »

Yes Archie is a overblown caricature, but the core message is solid. If you hanker for something and move heaven and earth to get it, you will have achieved something and bought something of value to you. The "Just one more watch" method yields you just that. I think the word quality got worked in there somehow and thats not the discussion at the moment. There is no doubt when you get a stowa that the watch has a certain quality and maybe a quality above its price point but luxury it aint.

But suppose someone on minimum wage wants a patek philippe minute repeater? In the real word people have to draw the line somewhere. The whole "but you really want X, you can achieve it if you really want" is living in dreamland to be brutally honest. "if you just put another €5k to it you could get x" :pac:

cnocbui · 22-02-2021 5:11pm

Cienciano wrote: »

But suppose someone on minimum wage wants a patek philippe minute repeater? In the real word people have to draw the line somewhere. The whole "but you really want X, you can achieve it if you really want" is living in dreamland to be brutally honest. "if you just put another €5k to it you could get x" :pac:

True. I have my eyes on €10 m house in NZ that I can't currently afford and never will, unless bitcoin goes past the moon.

Cienciano · 22-02-2021 5:14pm

cnocbui wrote: »

True. I have my eyes on €10 m house in NZ that I can't currently afford and never will, unless bitcoin goes past the moon.

I have to give up looking at houses, I just end up putting the min price at €5m and looking at the mad expensive ones.

Fitz II · 22-02-2021 5:19pm

CarProblem wrote: »

I definitely get the impression however that you assume if people don't buy what you like then they're settling

I dont particularly like Rolex, a lot of people think I do, but I dont. My taste changes over time and I am mostly onto other things now. The point I was making was that people who do want a Rolex, tend to settle with filler watches, that leave them unfulfilled. They will generally try to get confirmation bias on their purchases and work for a while to love them, but if in their heart thats not what they were after the watch is doomed. I was that soldier for a good while, I know the feeling.

The out of context quote you took was in the discussion of the Zeitona I think, and its best left there in its context where it makes more sense.

You are right I dont like Grand Seiko. I think its reliance on macro detail and pretty good if uninspiring finishing is a cheap trick. I think they make ugly watches too. I think the GS fandom is obnoxious and say things like "I could have a Rolex tomorrow"..:D. The only people that mention Rolex more than a Rolex fanboi is a Grand Seiko fanboi....look in all seriousness, I am happy you like your watches, and GS is a quality and luxury brand. Its a off center choice and I respect that. There is a lot more to the watch world than Rolex, but by god Rolex make a watch thats the complete package, and most people if they could would have one, I appreciate not you, but most would.

I am shallow...and that comment your mate made would break my heart.

Cienciano wrote: »

But suppose someone on minimum wage wants a patek philippe minute repeater? In the real word people have to draw the line somewhere. The whole "but you really want X, you can achieve it if you really want" is living in dreamland to be brutally honest. "if you just put another €5k to it you could get x" :pac:

You are not wrong, but something like a Patek Minute Repeater is something you want when you have developed that taste, its like dsmoking cigars, its not something you stumble into. Most people will want a Omega or a Rolex or one of those heavily marketed brands, and they are for most people attainable. I have always maintained that wristwatches are pointless jewelry and that if you are pinned financially then maybe its not the best use of limited resources.

Cyclingtourist · 22-02-2021 5:22pm

Fitz II wrote: »

CT will have a Tudor BB58 before years end.....then he is one of us....bwuahhhahahhhahhah

Or I could be mired in Sinn.

CarProblem · 22-02-2021 5:25pm

Fitz II wrote: »

You are right I dont like Grand Seiko

And that's perfectly fine - as I said different people like different things

Fitz II wrote: »

I think the GS fandom is obnoxious and say things like "I could have a Rolex tomorrow"..:D

I don't think it's "fandom" - it's preference. What's wrong with saying that? It just emphasises my point that I choose GS, I didn't settle for it.

Fitz II wrote: »

There is a lot more to the watch world than Rolex, but by god Rolex make a watch thats the complete package, and most people if they could would have one, I appreciate not you, but most would

And I agree 100% - demand shows that

Fitz II wrote: »

that comment your mate made would break my heart.

I honestly didn't care. I have a painting in my hall. I love it, my neighbour loved it when she saw it, my sister and best friend both hate it. I don't care - I like it and it's my house

mailforkev · 22-02-2021 5:26pm

Fitz II wrote: »

CT will have a Tudor BB58 before years end.....then he is one of us....bwuahhhahahhhahhah

I’m a bit tempted by the Harrods BB, apart from the couple of grand markup on them. I think I really just want an old Kermit though.

cnocbui · 22-02-2021 5:34pm

My definition of quality is Citizen and Honda. For other people it's BMW and Rolex. Luckily for me I'm right and my quality is a lot cheaper.

Fitz II · 22-02-2021 5:34pm

CarProblem wrote: »

I don't think it's "fandom" - it's preference. What's wrong with saying that? It just emphasises my point that I choose GS, I didn't settle for it.

Grand Seiko is damn Expensive, the Chronos are eyewatering. I dont think anybody would suggest the GS owner lacked the finances to have a Rolex, but it is something that comes out a lot on the GS side....this need to explain why they choose it? I find it interesting.

mailforkev · 22-02-2021 5:59pm

CarProblem wrote: »

It just emphasises my point that I choose GS, I didn't settle for it.

TBH if I saw a bloke wearing a Grand Seiko, I'd probably assume he'd worked his way through a couple of Rolexes first

.

redlead · 22-02-2021 6:12pm

mailforkev wrote: »

I’m a bit tempted by the Harrods BB, apart from the couple of grand markup on them. I think I really just want an old Kermit though.

I've been admiring these lately. You can only buy them in store but was wondering how obtainable they are. Is it basically like asking for a no date sub or can you actually get one if you wait a few months ?

Cyrus · 22-02-2021 6:16pm

Fitz II wrote: »

Grand Seiko is damn Expensive, the Chronos are eyewatering. I dont think anybody would suggest the GS owner lacked the finances to have a Rolex, but it is something that comes out a lot on the GS side....this need to explain why they choose it? I find it interesting.

yeah im not saying its every case but there is a certain element of snobbery in a lot of grand seiko stuff you see posted, i could have bought a crappy rolex but look what i got instead

Cienciano · 22-02-2021 6:28pm

Fitz II wrote: »

Grand Seiko is damn Expensive, the Chronos are eyewatering. I dont think anybody would suggest the GS owner lacked the finances to have a Rolex, but it is something that comes out a lot on the GS side....this need to explain why they choose it? I find it interesting.

Probably because GS owners are constantly told they could have a rolex or everyone assumes that every watch fan yearns for a rolex. Think this thread is a good example of that, a question about a Sinn leads to advice to buy a Rolex! I reckon if someone wanted to buy a swatch and the thread went long enough we'd have people telling them to buy a rolex!

Cienciano · 22-02-2021 6:30pm

mailforkev wrote: »

TBH if I saw a bloke wearing a Grand Seiko, I'd probably assume he'd worked his way through a couple of Rolexes first .

GS quartz is another. Some people are sick of mechanical watches and want something nice that they don't have to worry about. Not everything has to be automatic. I reckon my next purchase will be a decent quartz.

Who Watches the Watchmen (Our Chit Chat Thread)

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