Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings

thebaz · 22-02-2021 02:49PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

Where are they planning on getting the vaccines from?

https://www.thelocal.dk/20210215/denmark-adjusts-expected-date-for-completion-of-covid-19-vaccination-programme

doublejobbing 2 · 22-02-2021 02:49PM

thebaz wrote: »

Every day ther is a new spin propagated through the non stop doom and gloom and anxiety driven media - we are coming up to 12 months of lockdowm - thats a year of everyones life - for a virus with 0.4 mortality rate and we have a vaccine - a year ago everyone would have been delighted with those facts - but the Media through the new celebrity over cautious Professors and experts and Government are still terrifing the nation with over anxiety about opening up anything, now its schools - regardless of its benefit to our life - One year of our life has been taken away , do we want another taken away ? I certainly dont and most balanced people I kniow dont want it either.

Remember in March, the audio WhatsApps going about threatening martial law? Videos alleging Hazmat crews had shut down various Dublin offices and building sites? Local rumour that, gasp, Covid is now in our estate, that there was a van seen taking Martin Dunne up the road away, that he was at Cheltenham?

Jaysis, today most people would barely be worried if they tested positive. If they still have a job to go to your biggest gripe would be being put on sick pay for 2 weeks.

We are kept in a perpetual hell by rabid left wingers who think they speak for us all.

hynesie08 · 22-02-2021 02:52PM

thebaz wrote: »

https://www.thelocal.dk/20210215/denmark-adjusts-expected-date-for-completion-of-covid-19-vaccination-programme

I read that, and I'm not disbelieving them, but the maths isn't working out in my head.

I'd love to see a delivery schedule.

Patches oHoulihan · 22-02-2021 02:54PM

thebaz wrote: »

Every day ther is a new spin propagated through the non stop doom and gloom and anxiety driven media - we are coming up to 12 months of lockdowm - thats a year of everyones life - for a virus with 0.4 mortality rate and we have a vaccine - a year ago everyone would have been delighted with those facts - but the Media through the new celebrity over cautious Professors and experts and Government are still terrifing the nation with over anxiety about opening up anything, now its schools - regardless of its benefit to our life - One year of our life has been taken away , do we want another taken away ? I certainly dont and most balanced people I kniow dont want it either.

totally agree.
I am done listening to it now.

22-02-2021 02:56PM

Lundstram wrote: »

Talking about longer opening hours now for pubs and clubs when they reopen, unfortunately there’s many that will never reopen.

This is a blatant appeasement/distraction tactic, btw, for anyone who hasn't seen through it.

"When clubs reopen, we'll extend the opening hours. That said, there are no plans to reopen clubs. We'll reassess cautiously next year".

LuckyLloyd · 22-02-2021 02:58PM

Lundstram wrote: »

So to sum up your post, “you’re business isn’t important, it’s a cafe, tough sh1t”.

You do realise this is one place that we just know of, pub up the road from me finished for good, 8 staff unemployed. And not “temporarily unemployed” like Graham was trying to convince us. They have no job to return to.

I’m sure there’s hundreds more cafes, pubs etc in Ireland that will never reopen.

Thousands of staff with no job to return to but still bills to pay.

These places should have been open last summer just like they were all across Europe but the Irish knew better, apparently.

Talking about longer opening hours now for pubs and clubs when they reopen, unfortunately there’s many that will never reopen.

They’ve been treated like second class citizens for a year now and you come on here saying “tough sh1t”.

Charming.

A particular cafe, pub etc may never reopen but one like it will once public confidence is restored and demand returns to the economy. The thousands of staff laid off won't have their old job but they'll be able to attain a new one in time.

To achieve pre levels of confidence and demand requires us to solve the public health crisis. That's why they have been closed. And it is because we do not treat the old and those with underlying health conditions as second conditions that we would not countenance some mad alternative.

You say you are a FG man, well your party have been at the forefront of implementing this approach. The fallacy is in believing that we could just open everything up and pretend there is no virus. Not only would many of the businesses that have gone under not have survived, but the more important drivers of our economy would have been compromised.

Tough hard decisions had to be made. It may not be "charming" to analyse the situation within the context of the bigger economic picture, but facts are more important than feelings on this stuff.

22-02-2021 03:10PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Not only would many of the businesses that have gone under not have survived, but the more important drivers of our economy would have been compromised.

Tough hard decisions had to be made. It may not be "charming" to analyse the situation within the context of the bigger economic picture, but facts are more important than feelings on this stuff.

I would argue decisions have been made predominantly based on feelings/fear, and not facts.

You do not burn down the village to save it. The more we go down this path, the more serious economic trouble we are in.

ypres5 · 22-02-2021 03:11PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

A particular cafe, pub etc may never reopen but one like it will once public confidence is restored and demand returns to the economy. The thousands of staff laid off won't have their old job but they'll be able to attain a new one in time.

To achieve pre levels of confidence and demand requires us to solve the public health crisis. That's why they have been closed. And it is because we do not treat the old and those with underlying health conditions as second conditions that we would not countenance some mad alternative.

You say you are a FG man, well your party have been at the forefront of implementing this approach. The fallacy is in believing that we could just open everything up and pretend there is no virus. Not only would many of the businesses that have gone under not have survived, but the more important drivers of our economy would have been compromised.

Tough hard decisions had to be made. It may not be "charming" to analyse the situation within the context of the bigger economic picture, but facts are more important than feelings on this stuff.

im sure if it was your job or business on the line and your ability to pay your bills or look after your family you'd be able to make the same clinical analysis or is it easier to do when it's everyone else?

Silentcorner · 22-02-2021 03:12PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

A particular cafe, pub etc may never reopen but one like it will once public confidence is restored and demand returns to the economy. The thousands of staff laid off won't have their old job but they'll be able to attain a new one in time.

To achieve pre levels of confidence and demand requires us to solve the public health crisis. That's why they have been closed. And it is because we do not treat the old and those with underlying health conditions as second conditions that we would not countenance some mad alternative.

You say you are a FG man, well your party have been at the forefront of implementing this approach. The fallacy is in believing that we could just open everything up and pretend there is no virus. Not only would many of the businesses that have gone under not have survived, but the more important drivers of our economy would have been compromised.

Tough hard decisions had to be made. It may not be "charming" to analyse the situation within the context of the bigger economic picture, but facts are more important than feelings on this stuff.

You just have to laugh don't you....this is hysteria, you have to abandon reason to succumb to it...fact's are more important than feelings.

For about 80% of the last 12 months, Covid patients have occupied about 400 of our 11,000 beds, for 100% of that time we have been under heavy to severe restrictions...

For a virus with a 99.92% survival rate for people who's immune system isn't compromised ...and probably 99.5% for those with a compromised immune system.

We now have immunity we didn't have last year
We now know a lot more about the virus that we did last year
We know, like flu, there is a strong seasonality factor.
We now are vaccinating people with a vaccine we didn't have last year...

And yet, the fear, the hysteria, the emotion driven response is still all we have...just to keep us all afraid and hysterical!!!

irishguy1983 · 22-02-2021 03:13PM

Quick question....I know we have a population of 5 million approx....How many are kids though??? Just trying to figure out how many exactly need to be vaccinated as kids are not being vaccinated right??

22-02-2021 03:14PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

You just have to laugh don't you....this is hysteria, you have to abandon reason to succumb to it...fact's are more important than feelings.

For about 80% of the last 12 months, Covid patients have occupied about 400 of our 11,000 beds, for 100% of that time we have been under heavy to severe restrictions...

For a virus with a 99.92% survival rate for people who's immune system isn't compromised ...and probably 99.5% for those with a compromised immune system.

We now have immunity we didn't have last year
We now know a lot more about the virus that we did last year
We know, like flu, there is a strong seasonality factor.
We now are vaccinating people with a vaccine we didn't have last year...

And yet, the fear, the hysteria, the emotion driven response is still all we have...just to keep us all afraid and hysterical!!!

Exactly, he seems to have the whole thing in reverse.

doublejobbing 2 · 22-02-2021 03:15PM

irishguy1983 wrote: »

Quick question....I know we have a population of 5 million approx....How many are kids though??? Just trying to figure out how many exactly need to be vaccinated as kids are not being vaccinated right??

About a quarter under 18 off the top of my head.

LuckyLloyd · 22-02-2021 03:18PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

You just have to laugh don't you....this is hysteria, you have to abandon reason to succumb to it...fact's are more important than feelings.

For about 80% of the last 12 months, Covid patients have occupied about 400 of our 11,000 beds, for 100% of that time we have been under heavy to severe restrictions...

For a virus with a 99.92% survival rate for people who's immune system isn't compromised ...and probably 99.5% for those with a compromised immune system.

We now have immunity we didn't have last year
We now know a lot more about the virus that we did last year
We know, like flu, there is a strong seasonality factor.
We now are vaccinating people with a vaccine we didn't have last year...

And yet, the fear, the hysteria, the emotion driven response is still all we have...just to keep us all afraid and hysterical!!!

Well, once again, a post of yours contains numerous factual inaccuracies. I think a lot of the posting on this thread would like the facts to align to the way the poster feels, and I do appreciate that desire is overwhelming and incredibly human. But unfortunately policy makers have to stay rooted in realism.

Again, the good news is coming. I firmly believe this is our last lockdown and the situation will look a lot more positive in six week’s time. The end truly is in sight.

Hellrazer · 22-02-2021 03:18PM

irishguy1983 wrote: »

Quick question....I know we have a population of 5 million approx....How many are kids though??? Just trying to figure out how many exactly need to be vaccinated as kids are not being vaccinated right??

Its around 3.6 million adults.

But we dont need to vaccinate all of these.

We only need to concentrate on everyone over 65 which is 700k.

Out of the current deaths 92% of them are in this age group 3780 out of 4109.

We should just throw all our vaccines at this age group and not have tiers at all. I would even argue about vaccinating health care workers first.

If we did this we could have all those over 65s done in 5 weeks @150,000 per week.

Deaths and hospitalizations would drop like stone and we could reopen completely within this time.

doublejobbing 2 · 22-02-2021 03:18PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

You just have to laugh don't you....this is hysteria, you have to abandon reason to succumb to it...fact's are more important than feelings.

For about 80% of the last 12 months, Covid patients have occupied about 400 of our 11,000 beds, for 100% of that time we have been under heavy to severe restrictions...

As bad as January was, we had 8000, 6000 cases per day, and yet still our hospital capacity didn't collapse.

The vagueness of numbers has been there from the start. I never knew Ireland had 11,000 beds, all I was ever told by our media was we couldn't overhwelm the beds we had. We would sometimes be told "Drogheda hospital is down to five beds" but we weren't ever told the national picture.

We were frequently told X thousand healthcare workers had been infected with Covid, but were never told how many frontline staff the country has.

There is deliberate vagueness of numbers given on how many people who "died of Covid" were in a state of health that would have typically allowed them live several more years vs how many were already so ill they were on the brink of death anyway.

Numbers are pointless fearmongering without proportion being shown.

Ray Donovan · 22-02-2021 03:19PM

Taken from Sky News:

"Britain has the most severe lockdown in the developed world, according to figures compiled by Oxford University

The Oxford COVID-19 Government Response Tracker, which compares the COVID-19 restrictions imposed in countries around the world, puts the UK's overall level of strictness at 86.1, on a scale of 0 to 100, where 100 is the strictest possible set of measures, writes data editor Ed Conway.

That means the UK has the highest level of restrictions among OECD and G20 nations - the broadest definition of the developed world. It has the fifth highest levels of restrictions in the world, after Cuba, Eritrea, Honduras and Lebanon.

The Oxford tracker, compiled by the Blavatnik School of Government, attempts to take everything from travel restrictions to school closures and compile them into an index. While this method is fraught with difficulties, it remains one of the few methods of comparing lockdown severity between nations."

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-news-live-uk-updates-as-boris-johnson-reveals-roadmap-out-of-lockdown-12225414 12.39pm post

You'll never guess who comes in 2nd!!!

22-02-2021 03:21PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Again, the good news is coming. I firmly believe this is our last lockdown and the situation will look a lot more positive in six week’s time. The end truly is in sight.

Is it? Do you know something Leo and MM don't? They say otherwise.

copeyhagen · 22-02-2021 03:22PM

Graham wrote: »

It's almost as if there are varying levels of restrictions across the EU for the varying infection levels.

so are your folks going to open their pub and restaurant now that they can?

or do they share your lockdown beliefs?

TheDoctor · 22-02-2021 03:22PM

Ray Donovan wrote: »

Taken from Sky News:

"Britain has the most severe lockdown in the developed world, according to figures compiled by Oxford University

The Oxford COVID-19 Government Response Tracker, which compares the COVID-19 restrictions imposed in countries around the world, puts the UK's overall level of strictness at 86.1, on a scale of 0 to 100, where 100 is the strictest possible set of measures, writes data editor Ed Conway.

That means the UK has the highest level of restrictions among OECD and G20 nations - the broadest definition of the developed world. It has the fifth highest levels of restrictions in the world, after Cuba, Eritrea, Honduras and Lebanon.

The Oxford tracker, compiled by the Blavatnik School of Government, attempts to take everything from travel restrictions to school closures and compile them into an index. While this method is fraught with difficulties, it remains one of the few methods of comparing lockdown severity between nations."

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-news-live-uk-updates-as-boris-johnson-reveals-roadmap-out-of-lockdown-12225414 12.39pm post

You'll never guess who comes in 2nd!!!

Never like coming in 2nd to the Brits

irishguy1983 · 22-02-2021 03:22PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

Its around 3.6 million adults.

So based on 1 million a month from April everything should be more or less done in June?? Or maybe that is too simple a way of looking at things??! Let’s presume for the moment they hit 1 million a month....Also I thought once you hit 70/80% things were grand - relatively speaking?

doublejobbing 2 · 22-02-2021 03:22PM

Ray Donovan wrote: »

Taken from Sky News:

"Britain has the most severe lockdown in the developed world, according to figures compiled by Oxford University

The Oxford COVID-19 Government Response Tracker, which compares the COVID-19 restrictions imposed in countries around the world, puts the UK's overall level of strictness at 86.1, on a scale of 0 to 100, where 100 is the strictest possible set of measures, writes data editor Ed Conway.

That means the UK has the highest level of restrictions among OECD and G20 nations - the broadest definition of the developed world. It has the fifth highest levels of restrictions in the world, after Cuba, Eritrea, Honduras and Lebanon.

The Oxford tracker, compiled by the Blavatnik School of Government, attempts to take everything from travel restrictions to school closures and compile them into an index. While this method is fraught with difficulties, it remains one of the few methods of comparing lockdown severity between nations."

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-news-live-uk-updates-as-boris-johnson-reveals-roadmap-out-of-lockdown-12225414 12.39pm post

You'll never guess who comes in 2nd!!!

At this particular moment, maybe.

Back around September prior to full lockdown the UK's then highest level of restriction would still have allowed pubs be open on a limited basis. Ours were allowed open with the same restrictions under the 3rd of 5 levels.

UK building sites also open.

I think if you weighed it up since last March inclusive, we would win this awful title.

LuckyLloyd · 22-02-2021 03:22PM

ypres5 wrote: »

im sure if it was your job or business on the line and your ability to pay your bills or look after your family you'd be able to make the same clinical analysis or is it easier to do when it's everyone else?

It’s necessary that policy makers and the government consider the whole. I understand and appreciate how distressing it is for people to be worried about their business / their job / their ability to pay their bills, believe me. I would never say that anyone directly affected was anything other than rational in complaining about that.

But unfortunately it is only a minority of our economy that has been affected in that way. A necessary short term economic casualty to assuage a larger volume of physical casualties. Service businesses selling non essential products can re-emerge; the dead cannot rise from the ground.

pjohnson · 22-02-2021 03:23PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Cant imagine the cafe will get much support for blaming those responsible for the closure.

https://twitter.com/onthewaycafeIRL/status/1344369157584916480r

At least we all know that the regular people here follow the ru.....oh wait they are the ones who think the rules dont apply to them. Now pretending to care about business.

ICYMI

https://twitter.com/onthewaycafeIRL/status/1344369157584916480

The cafe is rightly blaming those responsible for their business closing. I'm not sure it suits the agenda of those trying use it as an example tbh.

People that ignore restrictions caused the lockdowns that killed the business. Anyone who spouts on about "ignore restrictions" and now try to "sympathise/support" with the workers is hilarious.

Whatsisname · 22-02-2021 03:24PM

So I've mentioned it a few times in regards to the mood in the UK vs back home, when those re-opening plans leaked last night, there were a lot of posters in here were saying how they wish Ireland would do the same and how the UK will be relatively back to normal while Irelands still shuffling along. Which is likely true. However, in comparison, the mood over here is disappointment. The majority of people on the Coronavirus UK sub (which was extremely "we need to lockdown NOW" for ages) are fed up and can't believe it'll be another 2 months before retail even opens again. Even with a hugely successful vaccine rollout, cases, hospitalisations and deaths all dropping significantly, theres still no real let up for 2 more months.

My partner (who had covid back in November) spoke with her parents the other night and her Mam was saying how the vaccines don't work on the Brazilian variant and how even tho she's already had covid, the Brazilian one will infect her again. It's this blatant nonsense being peddled by the media and government to keep a whole nation living in fear. While everyone I know over here has moved on from covid ages ago, it feels like my family and my girlfriends family have only gotten more worried and hopeless back home. It's depressing to see.

Hellrazer · 22-02-2021 03:28PM

irishguy1983 wrote: »

So based on 1 million a month from April everything should be more or less done in June?? Or maybe that is too simple a way of looking at things??! Let’s presume for the moment they hit 1 million a month....Also I thought once you hit 70/80% things were grand - relatively speaking?

I edited the post - probably while you were typing.

we dont need to vaccinate all of these.

We only need to concentrate on everyone over 65 which is 700k.

Out of the current deaths 92% of them are in this age group 3780 out of 4109.

We should just throw all our vaccines at this age group and not have tiers at all. I would even argue about vaccinating health care workers first.

If we did this we could have all those over 65s done in 5 weeks @150,000 per week.

Deaths and hospitalizations would drop like stone and we could reopen completely within this time.

22-02-2021 03:28PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

But unfortunately it is only a minority of our economy that has been affected in that way. A necessary short term economic casualty to assuage a larger volume of physical casualties. Service businesses selling non essential products can re-emerge; the dead cannot rise from the ground.

You should take your own advice on the facts>feelings:

CSO: The median age of people dying from Covid is 83, the same as that for all deaths.

RIP to anyone who has died, and we should cocoon the elderly and medically vulnerable as much as possible until imminent vaccination, but you're talking from a place of feelings and not facts/statistics.

Whatsisname · 22-02-2021 03:29PM

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

"Construction has been open all along" is a bit like last April/ May's hysterical hyperbole every time we had a bank holiday or a bit of good weather "the crowds out today were a disgrace, wait til you see the figures next week" and all they did was decline decline decline.

It is either over active imaginations or people on a wind up.

I wish I was lying when I said I saw this on a particular regional section of boards the other day. Someone even suggesting that nobody should go to parks because the air out your back garden is the same.

Penfailed · 22-02-2021 03:33PM

PowerToWait wrote: »

It's not really 'level 5' restrictions though to be fair. It's very light touch, with huge amounts of people moving all over. Fair enough, can't get a sit down meal or a pint but other than that and the cinemas there's not that much shut. People are constantly posting on here about how they're not letting the 'restrictions' stop them doing what they want so it makes no difference in reality what 'level' we are supposedly at.

Sorry...what?!

EVERYTHING is closed (bar 'essential' retail). People are getting fined for being outside their 5km from home. Thousands of people are out of work...but, "it makes no difference in reality what 'level' we are supposedly at." ?!?

I'm of the view that restrictions are required to keep the numbers down. At the risk of sounding like the government, a slow, cautious reopening is what's required. However, there's slow and cautious...and there's stopped.

irishguy1983 · 22-02-2021 03:34PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

I edited the post - probably while you were typing.

I hear you and agree...It seems now though there is a switch to getting 100% vaccinated or maybe I am misinterpreting things....I thought once that 700K were vaccinated we could open up a bit...I am not talking nightclubs, big crowds, etc but level 3 with maybe a few tweaks....So 3.6 million is all we are looking at.....Yes I appreciate what you are saying not all 3.6 need to be vaccinated but seems they want everyone vaccinated before we can do anything!!!

Silentcorner · 22-02-2021 03:35PM

It's actually very simple, the further you remove yourself from mainstream media (which hasn't produced one expert that anyone can name who has been spot on or even right more often than not since this began) the less inclined you have succumb to the hysteria.

The numbers are telling us who is vulnerable.
The people we know who have had Covid are telling us what the virus is like
The case numbers are like a whip, used as a threat to punish us all if we don't behave.

The media is being used to pump us full of fear, for a mild but unpleasant virus!

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings