Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings

Geuze · 22-02-2021 01:43PM

thebaz wrote: »

Its been confirmed that the virus hardly transmits outside , and the scare stories from last summer outdoor spreading was all wrong; we have had lockdown for nearly a year, the virus spreads indoors , and already the Autorities are saying they are going to police outdorr gatherings - Eneogh really is Eneogh :-

Yes, given that transmission is indoors, I don't understand why there are restrictions at parks, beach, etc.

ingo1984 · 22-02-2021 01:46PM

There are two choices.

1) ease restrictions only for the cases to rise again and end up in lockdown again

2) or wait it out, surpress the spread and cases, let vaccine effect take hold, then when you do ease restrictions it will be for the last time.

Graham · 22-02-2021 01:47PM

timmyntc wrote: »

Enforcement has been mostly relying on policing by consent, because we dont have the resources to physically enforce the restrictions on everyone - especially when theres arbitrary restrictions like 5km from your home - which wastes so much of gardai time checking addresses etc, and doesnt really do much for virus rates.

So given that we do not have the resources to enforce everything any stricter, how do you propose enforcement could be much tougher?

Stiffer penalties and a few hundred people a week in front of a judge would send out a fairly strong message.

That's not to say it's something I'd call for but let's not pretend that there's nothing more that could be done.

Hellrazer · 22-02-2021 01:51PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

3) Gradually ease restrictions as more people get vaccinated, keeping infections at a manageable number while allowing some degree of normality to return.

Thats actually the best of a bad lot. But there would have to be certain criteria set down in order to allow the degree of normality to return.

22-02-2021 01:54PM

ingo1984 wrote: »

There are two choices.

1) ease restrictions only for the cases to rise again and end up in lockdown again

2) or wait it out, surpress the spread and cases, let vaccine effect take hold, then when you do ease restrictions it will be for the last time.

Option 1 all day.

Plenty of data from around the world to show that living with the virus is quite easy between May and October.

And we should have most vaccinated by then anyways.

And frankly, staying in lockdown to avoid lockdown is pathetic.

Boggles · 22-02-2021 01:57PM

Corby Trouser Press wrote: »

You've done your back of the envelope calculations and deemed construction to be largely open.

Nope.

I was paraphrasing the head of the federation, you'll have to take it up with him.

Graham · 22-02-2021 02:00PM

ingo1984 wrote: »

1) ease restrictions only for the cases to rise again and end up in lockdown again

Deleted User wrote: »

Option 1 all day.

You'd like to ease restrictions now to end up in lockdown again?

Odd

Boggles · 22-02-2021 02:00PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

In all fairness the post I initially responded to was talking about different restrictions in different countries depending on the differing infection levels.

There's also a lag between cases and ICU numbers. The majority of those in ICU were likely infected a couple of weeks ago.

Probably, the point though is we have far less capacity now than we had when restrictions kicked in.

So infection rate is not the only metric when deciding on easing restrictions, was my main point.

GiftofGab · 22-02-2021 02:00PM

Is there a tread on the pubs/clubs closing time being extended??

opinionated3 · 22-02-2021 02:01PM

Graham wrote: »

You'd like to ease restrictions now to end up in lockdown again?

Odd

Why would you be back in lockdown if everyone is vaccinated.......I think that might have been his point

22-02-2021 02:02PM

Graham wrote: »

You'd like to ease restrictions now to end up in lockdown again?

Odd

Well I don’t think we would end up in lockdown again as I explained.

But even if we did, yes it would be better than just staying in lockdown indefinitely.

timmyntc · 22-02-2021 02:06PM

Graham wrote: »

Stiffer penalties and a few hundred people a week in front of a judge would send out a fairly strong message.

That's not to say it's something I'd call for but let's not pretend that there's nothing more that could be done.

Penalties for what?
There is already penalties for breaching the 5k - do you want harsh fines for being caught outside meeting someone from another household?

How can gardai prove this? They have no knowledge of who lives together and who doesnt. It's all totally unworkable, just like the 5km rule is. Most people can just lie and say they live within 5km of this checkpoint, or else that they are driving to/from the nearest shop.

These rules sound good in theory (to someone) but nobody thinks of how the gardai are expected to enforce them.

Graham · 22-02-2021 02:09PM

timmyntc wrote: »

Penalties for what?
There is already penalties for breaching the 5k - do you want harsh fines for being caught outside meeting someone from another household?

Not at all what I said.

jams100 · 22-02-2021 02:10PM

ingo1984 wrote: »

There are two choices.

1) ease restrictions only for the cases to rise again and end up in lockdown again

2) or wait it out, surpress the spread and cases, let vaccine effect take hold, then when you do ease restrictions it will be for the last time.

It amazes me how people think that it is a binary choice.

Certain activities have proven across the globe to negativity contribute to the spread of covid. There is zero evidence for closing golf/tennis/construction, especially so when the infection rate is low as it is now.

Again, what other eu country closed their construction sector?

22-02-2021 02:11PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

3) Gradually ease restrictions as more people get vaccinated, keeping infections at a manageable number while allowing some degree of normality to return.

But that is what we are doing, starting with schools. Glad to see all those offering thanks are finally on board

Graham · 22-02-2021 02:12PM

opinionated3 wrote: »

Why would you be back in lockdown if everyone is vaccinated.......I think that might have been his point

We'll be lucky to see everyone vaccinated by Q4, I'd hope to see restrictions relaxed way before then.

Getting the case numbers low enough to start and ease restrictions sooner while the vaccination program progresses sounds much better then reopening now to have case numbers leap up again forcing another set of restrictions.

LuckyLloyd · 22-02-2021 02:13PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

'I'm all right Jack - Fcuk people who've lost their business'.

Well some posters in this thread claim to be people of business and the economy, so they should appreciate more than the average person the more vulnerable nature of businesses in certain sectors. If you sell non essential services to the public you are at the mercy of consumer confidence. You are the first to go bust, and businesses like yours are the first to reemerge when things start turning back in the right direction.

Everything in a public health crisis is about prioritisation. We are choosing to lock down certain types of economic activity so we protect the fundamental core of our economy and society. This is terrible for the people involved, just as it is terrible for the families of those who have died or who are now suffering from impaired quality of life due to long covid.

The broader news is really good. The vaccines seem to work very well, it seems we will be distributing a quarter million doses a week soon. When we're through the other side cafes like the one lamented by Lundstram will be the first to reopen. These are cold hard but necessary macro policy choices.

retro:electro · 22-02-2021 02:14PM

The thing is, while some construction is technically open, the sector as a whole has not been green lit to restart. And so when this does occur, say sometime mid-late March, we will effectively be stalling any progress in other industries for 3-4 weeks while we see how things play out — even though, according to some here, construction has been back for weeks. Will those who are saying construction has been ongoing for weeks now then see it as futile to stall any reopening of other sectors while we wait and see if cases rise as a result of a sector that is, according to them, open for weeks now? And will they then be calling for other industries to reopen instead?

Multipass · 22-02-2021 02:14PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There’s a deadly disease out there at the moment. It’s killing so many people. It’s called cancer.

Public colonoscopy waiting lists are scandalous now. CT scans are the same. We also paused cancer screenings for months last year. Breast check only ran at 30% last year.

I had my own health scare this year. Paid 280 for CT scan and 1250 for colonoscopy. Doctors told me I could be waiting years if I didn’t go private.

Disgraceful what we are doing in this country. Only Covid matters

From now on they’ll be saying the waiting times are because of the tragic covid crisis, no-ones fault.

Russman · 22-02-2021 02:16PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Sure, I was just taking issue with the implication that it's an all or nothing situation.

We should be moving a bit faster with it though. If we're in a position where we cam open schools, surely we're in a position to open outdoor dining, low risk sports, and all construction.

If there was to be a spike (hopefully there won't be), if we do it slowly we have a better chance of identifying what element it was that lead to it, I would think.

thebaz · 22-02-2021 02:24PM

Every day ther is a new spin propagated through the non stop doom and gloom and anxiety driven media - we are coming up to 12 months of lockdowm - thats a year of everyones life - for a virus with 0.4 mortality rate and we have a vaccine - a year ago everyone would have been delighted with those facts - but the Media through the new celebrity over cautious Professors and experts and Government are still terrifing the nation with over anxiety about opening up anything, now its schools - regardless of its benefit to our life - One year of our life has been taken away , do we want another taken away ? I certainly dont and most balanced people I kniow dont want it either.

22-02-2021 02:25PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But that is what we are doing, starting with schools. Glad to see all those offering thanks are finally on board

Lol, I think the timeline is the issue.
We’ll be into month 5 of severe lockdown before we might be allowed to leave our 5km imprisonment.

Hellrazer · 22-02-2021 02:30PM

Graham wrote: »

We'll be lucky to see everyone vaccinated by Q4, .

Can I ask why you think this when our government says differently?

Lack of supply or just incompetence in the roll out?

I actually feel the exact same that it will be much later in the year before we are fully vaccinated but I feel it will be because the government couldnt organize a piss up rather than lack of supply.

Hellrazer · 22-02-2021 02:34PM

thebaz wrote: »

Every day ther is a new spin propagated through the non stop doom and gloom and anxiety driven media - we are coming up to 12 months of lockdowm - thats a year of everyones life - for a virus with 0.4 mortality rate and we have a vaccine -

Its a 0.4- 0.5%% mortality rate for OVER 65s. As a percentage of the population as a whole its ONLY 0.08%

And yet we are staying locked down for figures these low.

Boggles · 22-02-2021 02:38PM

retro:electro wrote: »

The thing is, while some construction is technically open, the sector as a whole has not been green lit to restart. And so when this does occur, say sometime mid-late March, we will effectively be stalling any progress in other industries for 3-4 weeks while we see how things play out — even though, according to some here, construction has been back for weeks. Will those who are saying construction has been ongoing for weeks now then see it as futile to stall any reopening of other sectors while we wait and see if cases rise as a result of a sector that is, according to them, open for weeks now? And will they then be calling for other industries to reopen instead?

You are looking at it wrong.

The rest of us are restricted at the moment to allow things like construction operate.

Unlike the lockdown last Spring the vast vast majority of it was deemed non essential.

This reopening of the rest of the sector and other sectors will now have to run parallel with the reopening of schools and keeping them open, something we didn't have to worry about during wave 1 or subsequently into the summer.

The 2 key priorities is children and non covid health care.

Then Construction and non essential retail.

I imagine the aim is to get at least 3 of those going again before the end of April whilst ramping up the vaccination efforts.

Staggered return of schools, aspects of non covid health care to restart, staggered return of the rest of construction, click and collect for non essential retail with a view to full opening with proper restrictions.

That would be my guess of what will be announced tomorrow.

The plan is conservative, but apart from peoples annoyance no one has put forward a more reasonable one based on the reality of your current situation.

Lundstram · 22-02-2021 02:42PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well some posters in this thread claim to be people of business and the economy, so they should appreciate more than the average person the more vulnerable nature of businesses in certain sectors. If you sell non essential services to the public you are at the mercy of consumer confidence. You are the first to go bust, and businesses like yours are the first to reemerge when things start turning back in the right direction.

Everything in a public health crisis is about prioritisation. We are choosing to lock down certain types of economic activity so we protect the fundamental core of our economy and society. This is terrible for the people involved, just as it is terrible for the families of those who have died or who are now suffering from impaired quality of life due to long covid.

The broader news is really good. The vaccines seem to work very well, it seems we will be distributing a quarter million doses a week soon. When we're through the other side cafes like the one lamented by Lundstram will be the first to reopen. These are cold hard but necessary macro policy choices.

So to sum up your post, “you’re business isn’t important, it’s a cafe, tough sh1t”.

You do realise this is one place that we just know of, pub up the road from me finished for good, 8 staff unemployed. And not “temporarily unemployed” like Graham was trying to convince us. They have no job to return to.

I’m sure there’s hundreds more cafes, pubs etc in Ireland that will never reopen.

Thousands of staff with no job to return to but still bills to pay.

These places should have been open last summer just like they were all across Europe but the Irish knew better, apparently.

Talking about longer opening hours now for pubs and clubs when they reopen, unfortunately there’s many that will never reopen.

They’ve been treated like second class citizens for a year now and you come on here saying “tough sh1t”.

Charming.

thebaz · 22-02-2021 02:44PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

Can I ask why you think this when our government says differently?

Lack of supply or just incompetence in the roll out?

I actually feel the exact same that it will be much later in the year before we are fully vaccinated but I feel it will be because the government couldnt organize a piss up rather than lack of supply.

Denmark hope to vaccinate the whole of ther population by June - they are in the EU too - at our daily 6 oclock conference , no one asks any tough questions of NPHET - just the usual HoldFirm / In this together over-anxious stuff we have being hearing for a year now - meanwhile the authorities then warn the public to stop mixing outside , the very thing thats keeps us healty and somewhat sane - The virus spreads indoors -
Its all pretty pathetic to put it mildly.

doublejobbing 2 · 22-02-2021 02:45PM

retro:electro wrote: »

— even though, according to some here, construction has been back for weeks.

"Construction has been open all along" is a bit like last April/ May's hysterical hyperbole every time we had a bank holiday or a bit of good weather "the crowds out today were a disgrace, wait til you see the figures next week" and all they did was decline decline decline.

It is either over active imaginations or people on a wind up.

hynesie08 · 22-02-2021 02:47PM

thebaz wrote: »

Denmark hope to vaccinate the whole of ther population by June - they are in the EU too - at our daily 6 oclock conference , no one asks any tough questions of NPHET - just the usual HoldFirm / In this together over-anxious stuff we have being hearing for a year now - meanwhile the authorities then warn the public to stop mixing outside , the very thing thats keeps us healty and somewhat sane - The virus spreads indoors -
Its all pretty pathetic to put it mildly.

Where are they planning on getting the vaccines from?

MethMartin · 22-02-2021 02:48PM

Graham wrote: »

We'll be lucky to see everyone vaccinated by Q4, I'd hope to see restrictions relaxed way before then.

Getting the case numbers low enough to start and ease restrictions sooner while the vaccination program progresses sounds much better then reopening now to have case numbers leap up again forcing another set of restrictions.

Are you a troll or do you simply ignore the facts? We are expecting to receiving 1 million doses per month from April.

So how on earth will we be 'lucky' to vaccinate everyone by the end of Q4? Your maths doesn't add up. Also we don't need to vaccinate everyone to achieve heard immunity.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings