Star Trek Discovery Season 3 [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

breezy1985 · 03-02-2021 02:16PM

pah wrote: »

Sorry now but Buffy The Vampire Slayer is one of the best shows ever made for TV. I wouldn't do it such a disservice as to lob it in with Distupidry

Not saying they are the same standard but the same style. Teen drama and romance inserted into fantasy or sci-fi. I loved Buffy when I was a teenager but if it came.out now 20 years on I don't think I would be into it

Inviere · 03-02-2021 02:25PM

FGR wrote: »

Agree with you Inviere - The time gap is simply too long. It's like throwing the crew of a 1700's man-o-war warship onto a nuclear powered aircraft carrier

Even that's less than 300 years. The silly thing is, Discovery fits right into the future timeline, very little about the ship or crew needed to change....making it a prequel was a MASSIVE mistake to begin with, it always stuck out a sore thumb, & hamstrung itself with established facts/canon (break canon & people whinge, abide canon & other people whinge). It should have been a blank canvas. I feel by now, if Season 1 was Season 3 (with a slight reworking), the show would be standing much firmer on its feet than it is currently (with the usual per-season reboot.)

One other thing, the engineer character. (the one picked up in S2)...good lord what a pain. Characters like Riker get a lot of flak for their apparent treatment of subordinate crew....this engineer person though, she's a complete asshole in every sense of the word, personally and professionally.

breezy1985 · 03-02-2021 02:32PM

Inviere wrote: »

One other thing, the engineer character. (the one picked up in S2)...good lord what a pain. Characters like Riker get a lot of flak for their apparent treatment of subordinate crew....this engineer person though, she's a complete asshole in every sense of the word, personally and professionally.

I thought she was funny enough when used sparingly and at least she is just sarcastic. Georgiou on the other hand should have been spaced for the stuff she said

Stark · 03-02-2021 02:35PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

I thought she was funny enough when used sparingly and at least she is just sarcastic. Georgiou on the other hand should have been spaced for the stuff she said

"But we love her really and the cruel things she said to us were just her way of showing her affection for us. Hey, did we ever find out what happened to those crew members who started mysteriously disappearing after she arrived on board?".

Inviere · 03-02-2021 02:46PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

I thought she was funny enough when used sparingly and at least she is just sarcastic. Georgiou on the other hand should have been spaced for the stuff she said

Mirror Georgiou is painful, like awful...but I've known that since S1 so it's not really a surprise. That engineer though has more than a few times been worse than sarcastic....there was a scene with a minor officer in engineering, he was standing in the spore chamber I think, & she was rude, dismissive, and contemptable toward him....he'd definitely have a case for reporting her behaviour. She comes across a total asshole to those under her.

silverharp · 03-02-2021 04:13PM

Inviere wrote: »

Mirror Georgiou is painful, like awful...but I've known that since S1 so it's not really a surprise. That engineer though has more than a few times been worse than sarcastic....there was a scene with a minor officer in engineering, he was standing in the spore chamber I think, & she was rude, dismissive, and contemptable toward him....he'd definitely have a case for reporting her behaviour. She comes across a total asshole to those under her.

My wife's view was that they cant write female characters. Its almost like they think of a list of tropes that would fit if parodying male characters but they make the character female.

Inviere · 03-02-2021 04:22PM

silverharp wrote: »

My wife's view was that they cant write female characters. Its almost like they think of a list of tropes that would fit if parodying male characters but they make the character female.

Your wife is wise

That said, I still don't hate Burnham. I hate what the writers have done with her, making her the centre of absolutely everything. I like the Burnham centric stuff when she's not around the crew, as seen early in S3....I thought she was pretty damn good there. I kinda groan though when the superhero stuff starts.

pixelburp · 03-02-2021 04:32PM

Inviere wrote: »

Mirror Georgiou is painful, like awful...but I've known that since S1 so it's not really a surprise. That engineer though has more than a few times been worse than sarcastic....there was a scene with a minor officer in engineering, he was standing in the spore chamber I think, & she was rude, dismissive, and contemptable toward him....he'd definitely have a case for reporting her behaviour. She comes across a total asshole to those under her.

The Discovery writers seem to have no idea how to match action to character. It's similar to the "show, don't tell" mantra and despite a fundamental in 101 creative writing, is almost never visible on this show. So many "character" moments amount to the cast standing around telling each other how inspiring/amazing etc. they are, despite any evidence to the contrary.

Georgiou is the apotheosis of this: the writers are obviously aiming for this whole Space Bitch, too cool to give a fúck ... but really she does angle. But there's no action to match, while running parallel is the Discovery cast who not only give her the time of day ... but treat her as an inspiring figure. Mild spoiler, but in a later episode, Tilly toasts Georgiou for pushing her "... in her own way", while calling her a "badass" - despite earlier in the same episode behaving like a thundering cnut to the poor ensign. I rarely speak to the TV screen but I openly told the show to "fúck off" with that.

Banana Republic 1 · 03-02-2021 06:10PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

Thats how I watched the control part of season 2 and honestly I only needed to watch about 5mins of each episode to follow the plot.

You are right about the Riverdale thing. I have now accepted that despite all being sci-fi this show is just not aimed at or for TNG, BSG or Expanse fans. Its dark teen drama essentially Buffy or Twilight with lazeers

Would teens not see right through STD

breezy1985 · 03-02-2021 07:19PM

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Would teens not see right through STD

Probably would ya. I'm saying it's trying to be Buffy or Riverdale I'm not saying it's living up to it but it does seem to have some people hooked at least.

I think teenage me would like it for the action but I can't think of any character I would have really liked the way I always had firm favorites with old Trek and not being able to actually see any of the ships would have been a big issue for teenage me too

breezy1985 · 03-02-2021 07:28PM

pixelburp wrote: »

The Discovery writers seem to have no idea how to match action to character. It's similar to the "show, don't tell" mantra and despite a fundamental in 101 creative writing, is almost never visible on this show. So many "character" moments amount to the cast standing around telling each other how inspiring/amazing etc. they are, despite any evidence to the contrary.

Georgiou is the apotheosis of this: the writers are obviously aiming for this whole Space Bitch, too cool to give a fúck ... but really she does angle. But there's no action to match, while running parallel is the Discovery cast who not only give her the time of day ... but treat her as an inspiring figure. Mild spoiler, but in a later episode, Tilly toasts Georgiou for pushing her "... in her own way", while calling her a "badass" - despite earlier in the same episode behaving like a thundering cnut to the poor ensign. I rarely speak to the TV screen but I openly told the show to "fúck off" with that.

I find it so annoying that no one ever disagrees with each other except when it's Burnham telling someone they are wrong. You often saw inexperienced people pulled up on stuff when in command and even Picard has his orders challenged but no with DIS is all "you're so awesome ensign girl boss Tilly". It's a pity they promoted her too because I finally got over the fact she is too much of a complete mess for Starfleet and actually liked her this season till then

As for Georgiou she keeps reminding Saru that she eats Kelpians (and not in the good way) and Saru just takes it. Same the way she treats Tilly, just knock her the Fk out

Burnham the character would be fine in a different Trek where she is just one of the crew.
Burnham the 1st ever mutineer, Spock sister/mentor, Red Angel daughter, Burn solver is the problem

RandomViewer · 03-02-2021 07:33PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

Probably would ya. I'm saying it's trying to be Buffy or Riverdale I'm not saying it's living up to it but it does seem to have some people hooked at least.

I think teenage me would like it for the action but I can't think of any character I would have really liked the way I always had firm favorites with old Trek and not being able to actually see any of the ships would have been a big issue for teenage me too

Character development is poor, thirty something episodes and most of the crew have had no development past a name

Bobtheman · 07-02-2021 05:56PM

I just watched the last episode of series 3.
I liked it. I really don't have an issue with the Burham centric nature of the show. I think Kirk and picard probably saved their crews and life as we know it too many times to mention.
They need to flesh out some of the other bridge crew.
The other black woman for instance. Give them each an episode.
I'm a bit tired of story arcs and wish for stand alone episodes but it's a forlorn hope I'm sure.

pixelburp · 13-02-2021 04:55PM

Right, it's done. Only got around to the last episode yesterday. Bit of a damp fart all round and as said already this season managed to set up an interesting premise only to singularly fail to explore it in any fashion. This show just won't let anything settle for a minute, to grow organically. It's all gogogogo, but a fast pace doesn't mean you can't do development, it just takes craft.

As to the final moment? You know, I'll run with it. Cos of the many egregious problems with character writing, Burnham's constant undermining of basic command structure made her impossible to cheer on. It took 3 seasons to put her in the place the writers kept pretending she occupied. At least now her unilateralism will fit her actions.

And I don't normally get annoyed about the details but whoever managed the FX for that turbolift fight should be fired. A total disregard for basic internal geography and space. Especially for a craft so horizontally thin. Those shafts were the size of a dockyard FFS.

Evade · 20-02-2021 05:35PM

Didn't STD have silly turbolifts in season one too?

TheValeyard · 20-02-2021 05:44PM

Evade wrote: »

Didn't STD have silly turbolifts in season one too?

Yes. Like some rollarcoaster thinge

breezy1985 · 20-02-2021 06:19PM

TheValeyard wrote: »

Yes. Like some rollarcoaster thinge

Was a kinda Charlie and the great glass elevator on acid

pixelburp · 20-02-2021 06:35PM

It made me wonder how much control or management is sitting over the FX department. Did they just get a general guide to make it "epic" or somesuch and got the brief completely wrong, with no oversight to correct it. There's getting continuity wrong and then there's turning the interior of Discovery into a TARDIS. I know Kurtzmann ain't on anyone's Christmas card list but does beg the question how much influence he has over the day to day.

Stark · 20-02-2021 07:22PM

pah wrote: »

Sorry now but Buffy The Vampire Slayer is one of the best shows ever made for TV. I wouldn't do it such a disservice as to lob it in with Distupidry

breezy1985 wrote: »

Not saying they are the same standard but the same style. Teen drama and romance inserted into fantasy or sci-fi. I loved Buffy when I was a teenager but if it came.out now 20 years on I don't think I would be into it

Funnily enough I noticed Buffy was on Amazon prime last week so decided to give it another go (haven't watched it since the first run on the TV). I'm currently half way through season 2 and it's so good. It's teen drama sure, but it's teen drama on a much better level than the likes of Discovery or typical CW fare. Sarah Michelle Gellar is a much better actor than I remember.

~Rebel~ · 20-02-2021 10:05PM

Stark wrote: »

Funnily enough I noticed Buffy was on Amazon prime last week so decided to give it another go (haven't watched it since the first run on the TV). I'm currently half way through season 2 and it's so good. It's teen drama sure, but it's teen drama on a much better level than the likes of Discovery or typical CW fare. Sarah Michelle Gellar is a much better actor than I remember.

It's the difference of having a good writer on board in Joss Whedon, along with a fairly singular vision of what the show should be.

Stark · 21-02-2021 01:01PM

Watching another few episodes of Buffy I realise I seriously didn't give Sarah Michelle Gellar enough credit as an actress before. She's brilliant. I think that's another difference, not just the writing. Discovery and other CW-style shows generally use poor actors. So when it's a scene requiring emotion, they have to spell the emotions out with their words instead of showing them and it just becomes this tedious mope-fest. Whereas SMG is able to hit me in the feels every single time when the script called for an emotional moment.

Banana Republic 1 · 21-02-2021 11:34PM

Stark wrote: »

Watching another few episodes I realise I seriously didn't give SMG enough credit as an actress before. She's brilliant. I think that's another difference, not just the writing. Discovery and other CW-style shows generally use poor actors. So when it's a scene requiring emotion, they have to spell the emotions out with their words instead of showing them and it just becomes this tedious mope-fest. Whereas SMG is able to hit me in the feels every single time when the script called for an emotional moment.

Hits you like a dumb dumb she does !

breezy1985 · 22-02-2021 12:04AM

Stark wrote: »

Watching another few episodes I realise I seriously didn't give SMG enough credit as an actress before. She's brilliant. I think that's another difference, not just the writing. Discovery and other CW-style shows generally use poor actors. So when it's a scene requiring emotion, they have to spell the emotions out with their words instead of showing them and it just becomes this tedious mope-fest. Whereas SMG is able to hit me in the feels every single time when the script called for an emotional moment.

Her acting is good nothing really wrong there but the problem is the stupid places the writers put these moments in. Perfect example is when we get this big emotional farewell for some security officer we know nothing about

Edit: Also thought you were on about Martin-Green

Rawr · 22-02-2021 10:22AM

Stark wrote: »

Watching another few episodes I realise I seriously didn't give SMG enough credit as an actress before. She's brilliant. I think that's another difference, not just the writing. Discovery and other CW-style shows generally use poor actors. So when it's a scene requiring emotion, they have to spell the emotions out with their words instead of showing them and it just becomes this tedious mope-fest. Whereas SMG is able to hit me in the feels every single time when the script called for an emotional moment.

I've a hard time figuring out myself if Martin-Green is actually a decent actor who's been dragged down by piss-poor directing and writing, or if she deserves a portion of responsibility for how unlikable Burnham turned out.

Having never seen her in other productions I have no way currently to gauge how she performs with better writers / directors, so I've been happy to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that Secret Hideout were mostly to blame for the development of Burnham. The manner in which they took a decent concept in Picard and so thoroughly messed it up by the end, sort of re-enforces the idea of pointing the finger at Kurtman and his crew for the failings of live-action Trek these days.

I had started to feel that Martin-Green might also be bad actor, when I saw her overly cartoonish Mirror version near the end of the season. On reflection it's about as cartoonish as what Michelle Yeoh did, which could also be down to bad direction. However it did give me the impression that Martin-Green didn't really have much of a range. Again, I can't really tell unless I watch other stuff she's been in.

I could very well be that she's doing the absolute best job she can with what she's given, and if so fair play. However alas, regardless of the hows or whys, the character of Burnham is what I feel knee-capped any potential this iteration of Trek ever had.

I now find myself no longer avoiding Spoiler threads of Discovery before watching, and in a future era of Discovery with a Captain Burnham, I might not even watch an episode unless the chatter here suggests something interesting. I'm now alas *that* dis-interested in watching the show, and it's a damn shame.

Stark · 22-02-2021 10:29AM

Just re-read my post and realised some people might have thought I was complimenting Sonequa Martin Green rather than Sarah Michelle Gellar. Edited for clarity.

*shudder*

Rawr · 22-02-2021 10:31AM

Stark wrote: »

Just re-read my post and realised some people might have thought I was complimenting Sonequa Martin Green rather than Sarah Michelle Gellar. Edited for clarity.

My bad. SMG in my head turned into Soniqua Martin-Green :P

corkie · 22-02-2021 10:32AM

Stark wrote: »

Funnily enough I noticed Buffy was on Amazon prime last week so decided to give it another go (haven't watched it since the first run on the TV). I'm currently half way through season 2 and it's so good. It's teen drama sure, but it's teen drama on a much better level than the likes of Discovery or typical CW fare. Sarah Michelle Gellar is a much better actor than I remember.

Stark wrote: »

Watching another few episodes of Buffy I realise I seriously didn't give Sarah Michelle Gellar enough credit as an actress before. She's brilliant. I think that's another difference, not just the writing. Discovery and other CW-style shows generally use poor actors. So when it's a scene requiring emotion, they have to spell the emotions out with their words instead of showing them and it just becomes this tedious mope-fest. Whereas SMG is able to hit me in the feels every single time when the script called for an emotional moment.

Rawr wrote: »

I've a hard time figuring out myself if Martin-Green is actually a decent actor who's been dragged down by piss-poor directing and writing, or if she deserves a portion of responsibility for how unlikable Burnham turned out.

People are getting confused between two actresses with SMG initials?

ilovesmybrick · 22-02-2021 10:32AM

Stark wrote: »

Just re-read my post and realised some people might have thought I was complimenting Sonequa Martin Green rather than Sarah Michelle Gellar. Edited for clarity.

*shudder*

I was wondering if you were missing the /s at the end! I thought you might have meant Martin Green hit you in the feels, with the subtlety of a freight train!

Stark · 22-02-2021 10:32AM

Was trying to figure out pah's "surely you're being sarcastic?" reaction while thinking "No I'm serious, go watch 'The Body'". Makes sense now.

Banana Republic 1 · 22-02-2021 01:12PM

Stark wrote: »

Just re-read my post and realised some people might have thought I was complimenting Sonequa Martin Green rather than Sarah Michelle Gellar. Edited for clarity.

*shudder*

I thought it was Heckler and Koch sub machine gun you where referring to.

Star Trek Discovery ***Season 3*** [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

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Star Trek Discovery Season 3 [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]