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Covid 19 Part XXXII-215,743 ROI (4,137 deaths)111,166 NI (2,036 deaths)(22/02)Read OP

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Comments

  • #6902
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    The virus can mutate in a manner that escapes high success of vaccines. So the other poster has a valid opinion.

    It can also mutate into something no more harmful than a head old.


  • #6903
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    That's a massive if.
    And there's emerging evidence that some vaccines are far less effective than hoped on certain strains.

    I mean that's a big part of the reason why they're not letting us off the leash once the most vulnerable are juiced up.
    One fear is the hospitals filling up with younger people if we open up at that stage. The other is mutations occurring in the unvaccinated population, and setting us back to square one.

    That fear doesn't go away, even at full immunity, if you have open borders
    I think you need to shake off that fear thing! It holds people back from a balanced perspective. Early Israeli data suggests your concern is misplaced. We can tweak vaccines as required.


  • #6904
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    is_that_so wrote: »
    No they don't, not yet. They are still effective.
    Akabusi wrote: »
    Can it?

    It already has. Immunologists and other scientists have been worried about this for a while now. Hasn't SA shut down it's vaccination program over their new strain?


  • #6905
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Akabusi wrote: »
    Can it?
    No, they still work, just some of them not quite as well with certain variants, the most notable of these is the SA variant. Vaccines will be adjusted.


  • #6906
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    It already has. Immunologists and other scientists have been worried about this for a while now. Hasn't SA shut down it's vaccination program over their new strain?
    It was based on a very small study of young people.


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  • #6907
    TonyMaloney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    is_that_so wrote: »
    No they don't, not yet. They are still effective.

    South Africa are looking to get rid of 1,000,000 doses of AstraZeneca. They don't want to use it on any portion of their population.
    We've had 11 known cases of their variant detected here so far, and we don't do a huge amount of sequencing.

    That said, with the variants we know of and all the vaccines that will be available to us, hopefully we should be ok.
    But it's far from certain.


  • #6908
    TonyMaloney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    is_that_so wrote: »
    I think you need to shake off that fear thing! It holds people back from a balanced perspective. Early Israeli data suggests your concern is misplaced. We can tweak vaccines as required.

    Yeah, how long does it take to tweak and revaccinate an entire population?

    What would we do while we wait?


  • #6909
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,355 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    That's a massive if.
    And there's emerging evidence that some vaccines are far less effective than hoped on certain strains.

    I mean that's a big part of the reason why they're not letting us off the leash once the most vulnerable are juiced up.
    One fear is the hospitals filling up with younger people if we open up at that stage. The other is mutations occurring in the unvaccinated population, and setting us back to square one.

    That fear doesn't go away, even at full immunity, if you have open borders

    But the thing is strains happen all the time. Apparently we've had over 4,000 since this thing started. 4,000 they know of. And the dominant ones were replaced several times. Its only now that we get all worked up over them.

    if we stay paralysed in fear over something that may or may not happen we will stay in corona paralysis forever. After all tomorrow some flu or other virus may mutate into something more dangerous. What are we saying? Give it another year or two, just in case? Why not stay restricted forever if the fear doesnt go away?


  • #6910
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    South Africa are looking to get rid of 1,000,000 doses of AstraZeneca. They don't want to use it on any portion of their population.
    We've had 11 known cases of their variant detected here so far, and we don't do a huge amount of sequencing.

    That said, with the variants we know of and all the vaccines that will be available to us, hopefully we should be ok.
    But it's far from certain.
    I'm far more inclined towards OK. I do think this running commentary from scientists and politician is not helpful as it tends to flip from the truly grim to utopia in equal measures.


  • #6911
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    Yeah, how long does it take to tweak and revaccinate an entire population?

    What would we do while we wait?
    From bits of reading I've been doing, the thinking looks to be more to give boosters to those most at risk, a bit like the flu' jabs. The timeline seems to range from weeks with BionTech to later in the year for the other two.


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  • #6912
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    is_that_so wrote: »
    I'm far more inclined towards OK. I do think this running commentary from scientists and politician is not helpful as it tends to flip from the truly grim to utopia in equal measures.

    Kingston Mills is very level headed compared to some of the experts who frequent the airwaves. Hes confident the vaccines will work and due to the nature of some of the vaccines 'tweeting' is not an issue.


  • #6913
    Kunta Kinte
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 718 ✭✭✭Kunta Kinte


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    But the thing is strains happen all the time. Apparently we've had over 4,000 since this thing started. 4,000 they know of. And the dominant ones were replaced several times. Its only now that we get all worked up over them.

    if we stay paralysed in fear over something that may or may not happen we will stay in corona paralysis forever. After all tomorrow some flu or other virus may mutate into something more dangerous. What are we saying? Give it another year or two, just in case? Why not stay restricted forever if the fear doesnt go away?

    Evidence for this claim?


  • #6914
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Kunta Kinte wrote: »
    Evidence for this claim?
    I believe it's actually over 360,000 genomes or variants!

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00065-4


  • #6915
    Akabusi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭Akabusi


    is_that_so wrote: »
    No, they still work, just some of them not quite as well with certain variants, the most notable of these is the SA variant. Vaccines will be adjusted.

    That was my thinking. Thanks


  • #6916
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The reason the impact of this virus was so severe was because it was novel. Immune systems had no experience of anything very similar. Once vaccinated, any slight variants wont be novel to the immune system. So while the possibility will exist that many could get infected with the SA variant post vaccination, it wont have anything close to the same impact on the vast majority of the population. It will be just another cold for all but the most vulnerable and the unlucky few who have had a poor immune response to the vaccine / prior infection.


  • #6917
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 543 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    South Africa are looking to get rid of 1,000,000 doses of AstraZeneca. They don't want to use it on any portion of their population.
    We've had 11 known cases of their variant detected here so far, and we don't do a huge amount of sequencing.

    That said, with the variants we know of and all the vaccines that will be available to us, hopefully we should be ok.
    But it's far from certain.

    The vaccines will work just fine. They still offer more than enough protection against the new variants. Even if we need to provide a booster shot later in the year for the vulnerable then so be it.

    Seriously. I'm sick of this whole narrative lately that the vaccines are going to fail.


  • #6918
    Le Bruise
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Le Bruise


    This is quite a good twitter account to follow.

    https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout

    Discusses the COVID vaccines/variants/mutations etc. They're a Molecular Biologist whose research focuses on uncovering mechanisms of viral pathogenesis and host immunity. Seem to know their stuff.

    They're very positive too!


  • #6919
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,355 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Kunta Kinte wrote: »
    Evidence for this claim?

    If you're debating strains and risks and opening up or not and you're expressing as strong an opinion as you do I suggest you keep yourself informed on the basic facts?


  • #6920
    TonyMaloney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    Hardyn wrote: »
    The vaccines will work just fine. They still offer more than enough protection against the new variants. Even if we need to provide a booster shot later in the year for the vulnerable then so be it.

    Seriously. I'm sick of this whole narrative lately that the vaccines are going to fail.

    Well I've good news for you. You have the narrative all wrong.
    The narrative is that strains pose a threat to our vaccination efforts. Not that they will fail.

    I'm sick of the mantra coming from your side, where the "vaccines will work just fine" despite all the evidence to the contrary. It's just mindless optimism.

    If you're sick of it all, stop seeking it out


  • #6921
    big syke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 903 ✭✭✭big syke


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    despite all the evidence to the contrary. It's just mindless optimism.

    Go on humor me


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  • #6922
    TonyMaloney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    big syke wrote: »
    Go on humor me

    I have zero interest in doing that, thanks. Read the news.


  • #6923
    big syke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 903 ✭✭✭big syke


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    I have zero interest in doing that, thanks. Read the news.

    Just as i thought. No actual proof. Expect no less from you.


  • #6924
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    Well I've good news for you. You have the narrative all wrong.
    The narrative is that strains pose a threat to our vaccination efforts. Not that they will fail.

    I'm sick of the mantra coming from your side, where the "vaccines will work just fine" despite all the evidence to the contrary. It's just mindless optimism.

    If you're sick of it all, stop seeking it out

    There has been no evidence that variants will have any impact of the ability of vaccines to prevent severe illness.


  • #6925
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 543 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The reason the impact of this virus was so severe was because it was novel. Immune systems had no experience of anything very similar. Once vaccinated, any slight variants wont be novel to the immune system. So while the possibility will exist that many could get infected with the SA variant post vaccination, it wont have anything close to the same impact on the vast majority of the population. It will be just another cold for all but the most vulnerable and the unlucky few who have had a poor immune response to the vaccine / prior infection.

    Nature conduced a survey of over 100 epidemiologists. 90% believe that the virus will become endemic.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00396-2


  • #6926
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,772 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    Well I've good news for you. You have the narrative all wrong.
    The narrative is that strains pose a threat to our vaccination efforts. Not that they will fail.

    I'm sick of the mantra coming from your side, where the "vaccines will work just fine" despite all the evidence to the contrary. It's just mindless optimism.

    If you're sick of it all, stop seeking it out

    :confused:


  • #6927
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 543 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    Well I've good news for you. You have the narrative all wrong.
    The narrative is that strains pose a threat to our vaccination efforts. Not that they will fail.

    I'm sick of the mantra coming from your side, where the "vaccines will work just fine" despite all the evidence to the contrary. It's just mindless optimism.

    If you're sick of it all, stop seeking it out

    I don't have a side. That's a lazy argument. What's this evidence to the contrary? If you know something I don't please do share.


  • #6928
    mloc123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,445 ✭✭✭mloc123


    Hardyn wrote: »
    Seriously. I'm sick of this whole narrative lately that the vaccines are going to fail.

    Some people need the doom and gloom...


  • #6929
    Deeper Blue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,500 ✭✭✭Deeper Blue


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    I'm sick of the mantra coming from your side, where the "vaccines will work just fine" despite all the evidence to the contrary. It's just mindless optimism.

    Which evidence is that?


  • #6930
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    mloc123 wrote: »
    Some people need the doom and gloom...

    They even search for it.


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  • #6931
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    if we stay paralysed in fear over something that may or may not happen we will stay in corona paralysis forever. After all tomorrow some flu or other virus may mutate into something more dangerous. What are we saying? Give it another year or two, just in case? Why not stay restricted forever if the fear doesnt go away?
    I agree that once everyone is vaccinated and protected from severe disease, we can't stay restricted just in case of what might happen in the future.

    But we know also that we can't simply let the virus rip through the country when the highly-vulnerable are vaccinated. The hospitals will still get over-run from younger people, and Israel is providing evidence for this.

    So in my opinion we'll be waiting a while until we get fairly wide-scale vaccination to reopen. But once everyone who wants a vaccine has got one, it's difficult to see a strong argument not to drop restrictions - and if we prove that vaccines protect against severe disease in new variants (which appears to be the case), that argument becomes overwhelming. I expect we might see some restrictions around borders remaining for a while (e.g. testing at airports, masks, vaccination passports).


This discussion has been closed.
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